Place Terms: Apply to the off, not to the time of bet placement.

Gautama

Yesterday I backed Captain Cullen in the 15:20 at Navan. At the time of placing my bet, the each way terms were 1/4 odds, first four places. I backed Captain Cullen €25 each way at 12/1.

Subqequntly another horse was withdrawn, leaving 15 runners rather than 16. The horse came in fourth, therefore I would expect a return of €125. However, it's appearing in my account as a lost bet.

I contacted StanJames, to be informed: "The bet is settled on the place terms on the off, not at bet placement. Apologies for any disappointment, this is an industry wide rule."

These seems very unfair to me. They've changed the terms after the taking the bet. I can understand the Rule 4 rule, but at least that just modifies the returns. You still get your winnings. In this case, instead of getting €100 I'm getting €0!

Guffy

Gautama wrote: »

Yesterday I backed Captain Cullen in the 15:20 at Navan. At the time of placing my bet, the each way terms were 1/4 odds, first four places. I backed Captain Cullen €25 each way at 12/1.

Subqequntly another horse was withdrawn, leaving 15 runners rather than 16. The horse came in fourth, therefore I would expect a return of €125. However, it's appearing in my account as a lost bet.

I contacted StanJames, to be informed: "The bet is settled on the place terms on the off, not at bet placement. Apologies for any disappointment, this is an industry wide rule."

These seems very unfair to me. They've changed the terms after the taking the bet. I can understand the Rule 4 rule, but at least that just modifies the returns. You still get your winnings. In this case, instead of getting €125 I'm getting €0!

But only 15 ran, no?

gazza1

Gautama wrote: »

Yesterday I backed Captain Cullen in the 15:20 at Navan. At the time of placing my bet, the each way terms were 1/4 odds, first four places. I backed Captain Cullen €25 each way at 12/1.

Subqequntly another horse was withdrawn, leaving 15 runners rather than 16. The horse came in fourth, therefore I would expect a return of €125. However, it's appearing in my account as a lost bet.

I contacted StanJames, to be informed: "The bet is settled on the place terms on the off, not at bet placement. Apologies for any disappointment, this is an industry wide rule."

These seems very unfair to me. They've changed the terms after the taking the bet. I can understand the Rule 4 rule, but at least that just modifies the returns. You still get your winnings. In this case, instead of getting €125 I'm getting €0!

Same here mate. I backed him at 14s with pp and was fuming when they told me pretty much the same as you were told.

Guffy

I don't get the problem, a horse was withdrawn so it reverts to 3 places. Had it drifted and won the race at 25/1 would you be as pissed that they didn't pay you at 14's?

Mostly Harmless

Them's the rules.

Unless you're backing ante post in which case you get the place terms specified when the bet was placed.

gazza1

gufc21 wrote: »

I don't get the problem, a horse was withdrawn so it reverts to 3 places. Had it drifted and won the race at 25/1 would you be as pissed that they didn't pay you at 14's?

Its not to do with the price its to do with when i placed my bet it was on the basis of there being 4 places. I suppose thats the risk you take but its a real pisser when you place a bet on those basis and it finishes 4th but because of the withdrawl the bookies keep your money. I would even accept a void bet but for them to keep the money just seems wrong to me but as i said i suppose thats the chance we take.

kalinisi

It would be great if they did keep the e/w terms but never going to happen, love to do a bit of each way thieving myself, its amazing the amount of times an 8 runner race with an odds on shot will have a runner taken out reducing the e/w to the first 2 home (and my e/w steal finishes 3rd!! ) , but thems the rules

Guffy

What if it finished 3rd though? Should it still be voided? You could always write on docket ew void if only 15 runners

chipsdave

The problem of 16 runner Handicaps turning into 15 runner handicaps late on is as old as Methuselah Gautama , and has been the bane of many a punters life , losing the 4th place , that being said I wouldnt like to have you settling bets for me if I were a Bookmaker , what with You paying 4 places in a 15 runner Handicaps and giving returns of 125e to a 25e e-w bet 12-1 , 1-4 the odds !

hurleronditch

I think 16 to 15 feels like you've been hard done by, but imagine this scenario: 8 runners in the field for a standard handicap, 3 places paid. Let's say it's an Irish summer evening meeting. The book gets priced in the morning. At 1pm the heavens open unexpectedly and it stays down all afternoon. By an hour before the off the ground has gone from good to bottomless, and 3 of the 8 have been scratched off.

Would it be fair if the bookies had to payout on 3 of the 5 runners if you had backed at early prices because there were 8 runners at the time?

Would also be wide open to manipulation in similar scenarios if a trainer had a few runners in a race. Aidan O'Brien is unlikely to set up a touch like that in a group 1, but there's definitely a few chancers who would love a craic off that on a Tuesday evening in Kilbeggan!!

Gautama

gufc21 wrote: »

You could always write on docket ew void if only 15 runners

LOL!

Guffy

Gautama wrote: »

LOL!

Well you could didn't say they'd honouri t but at least then you would have a reason to argue with them

nuckeythompson

Gautama wrote:

Subqequntly another horse was withdrawn, leaving 15 runners rather than 16. The horse came in fourth, therefore I would expect a return of €125. However, it's appearing in my account as a lost bet.

What about the option of a refund prior to the off?

byronbay2

kalinisi wrote: »

It would be great if they did keep the e/w terms but never going to happen

As it happens, the Betpack bookies DO continue to pay 1/4 odds 1-4 on 16 runner handicaps if there is a withdrawal. Handy insurance policy if you fancy something e/w in a h/c with the bare 16 runners - there is always bound to be 1 withdrawal!