Two families become One

central

Hi there,

I need some advice on what I am finding a very difficult situation. My husband and I have been married for 3 yrs and have a 1 year old son. My husband also has another child from a previous relationship (they were never married). His ex has never been the easiest to get along with and I have always tried to be polite and pleasant. She took an instant disliking to me, I am not sure why, but has been pretty rude from day one. The ex and their child live in another country and up until 12-18 months ago there was never an issue with my husband visiting his child or his child coming to Ireland for weekends/weeks at a time for his holidays etc. Lately things have gotten very strained. She has stopped allowing their child come visit us in Ireland. It all stems back to earlier this year when we had a conversation on the phone and I lost my temper and shouted and used language. I had calmed down a while later and apologised and she accepted my apology. I can't go into too much detail here so apologies if I am being vague.

Their child had their communion at the weekend and she insisted on it being held here in Ireland, rather than in their own school with their own friends. My husband had been very clear from the get go that he did not agree with this and didn't see the logic and that we were more than happy to travel over for the communion to the child's place of residence. She ignored this and went ahead anyway and booked it for here. A few weeks back she decided their child was not allowed to stay with us for the weekend while here for the communion, something she had agreed to months ago. We discovered her reason for this was that she felt uncomfortable leaving her child with "someone like me" unsupervised as I use language and shout. I was so hurt by this that she would think I would behave this way in front of her or my own child! Everyone loses their temper and vents at times and I did apologise and it was accepted. She has refused to allow the child visit Ireland anymore and while she is not stopping my husband from seeing his child she is stopping me and our child from seeing the child as we just can't afford for all 3 of us to fly over to visit all the time. We are barely scraping by as it is with maintenance and creche fees, along with normal day to day living. I think it's such a sad situation for the kids to be in and as both of them are too young to make their own decisions it kills me to think our son won't have a proper relationship with his sibling as long as she is carrying on like this.

We have asked her to go to mediation and she laughed and said that was a ridiculous suggestion and we are not Americans! We said we did not want to go down the legal route with regards visitation etc as it is costly and up until now, unnecessary. We feel we have no choice now but to go down the legal route.

The child was here in Ireland all weekend and I did not get to see them once the whole time. It was so awful. My husband did bring our son to the communion so he could see his sibling alright.

His ex has been in a relationship with someone for roughly the same amount of time my husband and I are together (6 years) and they have recently split up. They had purchased a home together and are now selling the house and she said once she is settled she will let my husband know the new address for his child. She also mentioned that her ex wanted to continue to be in their child's life and did my husband have a problem with this. He said not at all, as long as it was what the child wanted. I just cannot fathom how it is ok for her ex to see her child but not me, the stepmother??

I guess I am looking for advice on what to do, how to go about it and is there light at the end of the tunnel? TIA

P.S. Sorry this is so long, there is a whole load of stuff I haven't even gotten into!

Taltos

Better here OP.
S&D is more for people going through separation and divorce which doesn't apply in your case. It appears that parenting may be a better fit or possibly RI.

For all who have followed this thread please read the local charter before posting.

Best of luck
Taltos

central

Apologies MODS

zeffabelli

Is she Irish and have most of her family here? Could that be why she wanted the communion in Ireland?

It does seem a little bit of an over reaction to halt all plans because you lost your temper on the phone....

But as you live in different countries trust will be precarious to start with. Trust is built on proximity and with geographic distance comes psychological distance so you have that hurdle to contend with.

Given that she is going through her own divorce right now...it does read like she is punishing you somehow for the current instabilities caused by the divorce...or maybe because the child is losing yet another parent figure...the step dad, who because had a residential placehold, wants to insure against losing even more attachments so is trying to prevent further attachments with you and the baby in case you and your husband break up...because if you do, chances are her child will lose you and contact with your child as chances are the now 1 year old will be residential with you should you and your husband break up. This isn't rational or conscious btw....

The step dad was a constant in their child;s life, a father figure, he was actually raising the child. where as you are more incidental as a non residential step mother.

Thing is because of the geography they aren't really going to have a sibling relationship anyway.... it will be more like second cousins or something.

central

zeggabelli - No she is not Irish and has no family here at all. My feeling is that she wanted the communion here because my husband said he didn't. (yes, she is that petty)!

I get the whole trust thing but to be honest, from day one I have tried to be nice and civil to her, I don't really see her that often. I would say in the last 6 years I have seen her 4 times. However, I know her child is very happy in my own home when he has been here oodles of times in those 6 years. I don't believe for a second he has ever gone home and said he was ill treated or didn't like me etc because I assure you, if he had I've had heard about it. Her number one priority should be her son's welfare and happiness and there has never been an issue with either, as far as I know, when he has been in my home. My entire family, immediate and extended, have welcomed him with open arms since they met him and always ask about him. My own immediate family give him birthday and Christmas cards/presents etc and love him dearly. My own parents, who treat her son like their own "blood" grandchild were uninvited to the communion because she felt "they were not his family" and therefore "did not deserve to attend". This to me is just shocking and wrong. Her son had invited my parents himself at the dinner table on Christmas day and then she decided they were not worthy to attend. How is this morally right? I don't agree with it at all.

She is not married and not going through a divorce, she is just splitting up from her boyfriend, who has been in the child's life for the past number of years. I have also been in her child's life the same amount of time and love him as if he were my own child. It is unfortunate that we live in different countries but we have tried, since our child was born, for the boys to see eachother as much as possible, on facetime/skype and only since Xmas has she stopped all visits to Ireland, unless she is with him, which until his communion last week she hasn't stepped foot in Ireland in 3+ years.

I guess I am just baffled by the entire thing and wondering now should we go down the legal route regarding my stepson being allowed to visit his dad and brother in Ireland or is there any point? Will the Law always side with the mother, no matter how crazy her opinions and thoughts are??

zeffabelli

central wrote: »

zeggabelli - No she is not Irish and has no family here at all. My feeling is that she wanted the communion here because my husband said he didn't. (yes, she is that petty)!... <SNIP>

Its hard to tell here what the arrangements are, how the child gets to Ireland for visits, how often etc. How often does he come over and how does he get here and back again?

If she has only met you four times in six years, then you may as well be strangers. You are strangers essentially, so while you know the inside of this relationship, she doesn't see any of it, so how would she know?

So she has met you only FOUR times in six years, and one time on the phone you shout at her.... can you see the trust problem there? Would you hand your baby over to that when you don't know them in a wider context?

Have you ever invited her over to dinner...to get to know you...to earn her trust...

With these distances, you really have to make HUGE efforts. And no amount of SKYPE and FACETIME..is going to build relationships.

How could you possibly be in the child's life the same amount of time as a parental figure who actually lives in the same country as the child? The step dad is also a man who is acting in lieu of an absent dad, and yes your husband is absent utimately. You are not acting in lieu of an absent mother....and you live in a different country.

First communion is what 7, 8y ears old...and you have been in a relationship with the dad as has the now ex boyfriend for the last six years? Does this mean that your husband has been a single father and disengaged after the first year of his life....Did he come back to Ireland or the mother and child the emmigrate...

She doesn't know your family at all, and they are not the child's blood family so no they aren't his family. That's nice what they do for him, or for you really, but I think you are over strethting it to expect them to be invited to communions when she hasn't a clue who you are or who they are.

Certainly, I do not think court is a good idea for anything involving international custody orders and I think you should take a step back and stay out of it if your husband does go down the legal route, which in my opinion would be a very expensive mistake.

The better thing to do is for you to make an attempt to rebuid trust, which frankly may be very hard to do with the geography but that is I think the only solution and it will take time as it has already been broken.

central

My husband would always go to get him to come visit here. His ex used to drop their son to the airport, which was a 2.5 hr journey for her each way. My husband would fly over there, collect his son and then return on a flight back to Dublin. In the past 18 months or so she has changed her mind, totally out of the blue, and said she was not driving to the airport anymore and if my husband wanted to see his son he would have to make his own arrangements. So, in the past 18 months my husband has gone to get his son on a plane, 2 trains and a bus and then does that trip back again to the airport to bring his son over to Ireland. He has had to start staying there more and spending 3/4 days at a time as the travel and expense was insane. As his son is in school he sees him every 8 weeks or so, on school holidays. Before he started school his son would come to us in Ireland every single 4 weeks for 1 week at a time and 2 weeks in summer.

I guess the issue here is that there was never a problem with her son coming here to Ireland, to my home, to spend a number of days with me, until recently. She was even happy for MY parents, the ones who are not his family by blood, to take him to Spain on holiday last year, myself and my husband were going too.

I wasn't expecting my family to be invited to the communion at all but when my stepson asked them himself, with no prompting from my husband or I, I thought it was lovely and sweet of him and they obviously mean enough to him for him to invite them?!

I have no intention of getting involved should this end up going down the legal route, I am asking really for my husband and I to make a decision together but ultimately this all lies with him when the decision is made.

With regards my husband, he left their home and moved back to Ireland when their son was 1. He then met me a year later, in all that time he was a single father and did as I outlined above regarding the travel and speaks to his son every 2nd day on the phone and has a very good relationship with his son. His son, like most little boys I guess, thinks his daddy is the bestest thing in the whole world and is absolutely made about him and loves seeing him as often as possible.

zeffabelli

central wrote: »

My husband would always go to get him to come visit here. His ex used to drop their son to the airport, which was a 2.5 hr journey for her each way. My husband would fly over there, collect his son and then return on a flight back to Dublin. In the past 18 months or so she has changed her mind, totally out of the blue, and said she was not driving to the airport anymore and if my husband wanted to see his son he would have to make his own arrangements. So, in the past 18 months my husband has gone to get his son on a plane, 2 trains and a bus and then does that trip back again to the airport to bring his son over to Ireland. He has had to start staying there more and spending 3/4 days at a time as the travel and expense was insane. As his son is in school he sees him every 8 weeks or so, on school holidays. Before he started school his son would come to us in Ireland every single 4 weeks for 1 week at a time and 2 weeks in summer.

What was the fight about on the phone? What triggered you yelling at her?

Well because she has split up with this guy, she no longer has support systems in place, and is in effect a single parent. International co parenting is very expensive and time consuming, it couldn't have come as a surprise when he left the child's country to move, and now he does not have co operation because she is over stretched as it is.

Because she is parenting alone it is unlikely she can continue offering support so all of your lives will be very different now. Single mothers simply do not have the time, the money or the spare energy to drive to do this stuff. They are over stretched as it is and all of your lives will be very different now.

It might mean less visits, it may have to and you may have to accept it, just as if your husband took a financial hit he'd have to cut down the travel expenses or if something happenned to your child then he'd have to sacrifice visits with his first one to pay for things for the second.

I would be very careful about what you demand becuase you don't know what is up the road. If you go a legal route, you have to think about international laws, travel, the nastiness of court, enforcement, counter suing for maintenance, the never ending cycles of it...appeal after appeal, character assassinations.

Hard to know what the financial situation is either and how that takes a hit with this.

central wrote: »

I guess the issue here is that there was never a problem with her son coming here to Ireland, to my home, to spend a number of days with me, until recently. She was even happy for MY parents, the ones who are not his family by blood, to take him to Spain on holiday last year, myself and my husband were going too.

Will you be leaving half "your" property to him? Usually its accepted that the father's home is also the child's home...does he have his own room in your house?

central wrote: »

I wasn't expecting my family to be invited to the communion at all but when my stepson asked them himself, with no prompting from my husband or I, I thought it was lovely and sweet of him and they obviously mean enough to him for him to invite them?!

That's not to dismiss it, but step grandparents are just one of those things that people do not see eye to eye on. She was fine with him to go on holiday with you guys but she herself is unlikely to want to share religious and community ceremonies with people she doesn't know. It is however an odd choice to have the communion here if his peers are in the other country. That I am scratching my head at. Do you really think she wants to see your parents pictures in all the photographs? Seriously?

central wrote: »

With regards my husband, he left their home and moved back to Ireland when their son was 1. He then met me a year later, in all that time he was a single father and did as I outlined above regarding the travel and speaks to his son every 2nd day on the phone and has a very good relationship with his son. His son, like most little boys I guess, thinks his daddy is the bestest thing in the whole world and is absolutely made about him and loves seeing him as often as possible.

Ah it looks like he made an effort, that's good.

Well you could petition the court...which would have to be in the child's jurisdiction, but honestly I think its a crap shoot with a dad who left when the child was 1, and then try to force the child out of jurisdiction, on planes etc for 6 visits a year.

It's not something I think you'd have good shot at and very complicated. Not to mention expensive. Maybe she is very stressed with the break up etc and the transitions will iron themselves out?

central

The fight was to do with the communion and the visit over to Ireland. It didn't last very long, a couple of minutes.

Yes she is now a single parent and looking after her child along, however, financially she is doing fine. In fact, she takes in more money than my husband and I together so I am not worried about her financially to be honest. My husband pays the due maintenance in full and on time each month. My husband also always pays for all flights/accommodation/transport costs when he goes to visit his son or his son comes here. We ask her for nothing and she never gives anything.

Yes, he will be left the property, along with our son. They share a room in our house as we live in a small 2 bed.

I have not spoken to one person who thinks the communion taking place here made sense or was a good idea, not one person can fathom it. Majority have come to the same conclusion as myself, she wanted to cause a row and make life difficult. Again, my parents going wasn't to be in her face for the day, nor was it to cause an issue of any kind, it just would have been nice since it was her son who invited them and not myself or my husband. Furthermore my parents would have just sit back and let the day happen and would not have expected to be in pictures etc. Hard for other people to see this I guess as you don't know me or my family but trust me, they would not have encroached on the day at all.

We feel our only option is to go down the legal route as things were fine up to when we had our child just over a year ago. My husband will probably try mediation first, in her jurisdiction as we are aware we need to follow his residency laws. We kept thinking over the past 12-18 months that things would just naturally calm but they haven't at all.

zeffabelli

Ah since the new baby. Ok that makes sense. She wants her boy to get his fathers full attention on his limited access time and not have to share it with the child who already has a live in dad's full attention. If dad has to go over there, then that attention is guaranteed. The boy may also be feeling displaced or she may fear he will be displaced by the new baby.

That's the reason, and I have sympathies with that. That makes sense now.

Communion is just very odd.

Court won't help things.

central

Yes since the new baby. I understand where she might be coming from too but at the end of the day she also has another child (from a different partner) so same could be said for that......anyway both boys are treated the same and both have alone time with their dad, albeit our son has more time obviously but again other son's mother gets more time with their son due to the living arrangements and locations of each child.

Thanks for all your advice and the reason we are looking at courts is that she all of a sudden has stopped her son visiting us, she has had no issue the past 7 yrs with it so why now? It is very unfair on the child as he wants to see his Dad and his brother all the time and while he understands this isn't possible he should still be allowed to visit Ireland, in my opinion. His mother is not doing what's best for her son but what she thinks is best for herself and how she feels about me and his dad. Broken homes are never easy, especially when children are involved but she knows her son is well looked after by a loving, giving, supportive father and to me THAT Is what is important, that her child is happy in our company and looked after and loved, which he always is.

zeffabelli

You know why. It's because you have a new baby and she wants the boy to have undivided attention.

So presumably he once had his own room, now he has to share it and his dad with the baby.

Plus you have no idea what the child is saying at home or the effect it's having. Who knows. Did you ask her?

Obviously your husband wants to bring him back to Ireland, but I'd be very surprised if a court allowed international custody to a single father (of this child) who has only seen him 6 times a year since the age of 1.

It's going to be really expensive and what do you hope to get out of it? A court order that allows the father to bring him out of jurisdiction six times a year? Seriously? A father who was non residential since age 1?

I don't know what country she is in but you need to consider local culture and family mores in that jurisdiction before spending 10k on an international family lawyer.

central

We have asked her and her son how he feels about things and what he wants. Ultimately he wants to see his dad, he has told her this, in our company.

We are not looking for international custody, we are looking for things to go back to the way they have been for the past 7 years. My husband has seen his child as often as school term and logistics allow and as I have previously stated this was all fine until recently. Of course her nose is out of joint because we now have a baby but in all honesty, what happens if she has another child, she already has 2 children so her focus will never be 100% of the time on her son, same way when her son is with his dad he has gotten 100% undivided attention and now that has changed. But in the grand scheme of things 2 children are being punished because she all of a sudden decided to change the game plan??

With all due respect I don't think you are understanding what I am saying/asking/suggesting, maybe that is down to how I am portraying it here.

zeffabelli

central wrote: »

We have asked her and her son how he feels about things and what he wants. Ultimately he wants to see his dad, he has told her this, in our company. So if you go to court, you are looking for a court order which enforces you husband can take the child out of juridisction for times a year? You want what was going on before, but enforced by the court?

We are not looking for international custody, we are looking for things to go back to the way they have been for the past 7 years. My husband has seen his child as often as school term and logistics allow and as I have previously stated this was all fine until recently. Of course her nose is out of joint because we now have a baby but in all honesty, what happens if she has another child, she already has 2 children so her focus will never be 100% of the time on her son, same way when her son is with his dad he has gotten 100% undivided attention and now that has changed. But in the grand scheme of things 2 children are being punished because she all of a sudden decided to change the game plan??

With all due respect I don't think you are understanding what I am saying/asking/suggesting, maybe that is down to how I am portraying it here.

If you go to court, you are seeking an international shared custody order. That is what family court does. It issues court orders. And this one will be cross borders and very difficult to enforce.

Whether or not she has another child is irrelevent. Comparing this to how many kids a residential parent has is irrelevant and not germane.

The boy already has very limited contact with his father, and of that limited contact if he has to come to your home, he will then again have to share that limited contact - limiting it further.

They are not being punished, she is securing time (resources) with the father for her child, because this resource (time with the father) is scarce and having to share it with the residential child, who enjoys the father all the time, she may feel is not fair on her son.

If you really want him to come to Ireland and avoid courts maybe offer to take the baby off to your parents for the weekend so that he and his dad can really have some time together? See how that suggestion fares out?

Yes he does want to see his father, and she is not stopping him from doing that. She's is stopping him from having to share a limited resource with new competition.

You may want things to be the way they were, but they wont be nor can they be, because you have another child now. Have you asked her why the change? Why not get your husband to ask her why she has changed things?

Sligo1

Central, I've not really any advice on this but perhaps you could ask a mod to put it in the personal issues as you don't seem to he getting much of a variety of different posters advice here. FWIW you appear to have both children's best interests at heart here and it's such a shame this is happening.

As I said perhaps ask a mod to put your thread in the personal issues forum. Hopefully you will get more advice and opinions there from more posters.

zeffabelli

Sligo1 wrote: »

Central, I've not really any advice on this but perhaps you could ask a mod to put it in the personal issues as you don't seem to he getting much of a variety of different posters advice here. FWIW you appear to have both children's best interests at heart here and it's such a shame this is happening.

As I said perhaps ask a mod to put your thread in the personal issues forum. Hopefully you will get more advice and opinions there from more posters.

Sorry to be off topic but I think this is a product of the new topics rejigger...less traffic.

central

Can this be moved to Personal Issues as suggested by another poster please?

Sligo1

central wrote: »

Can this be moved to Personal Issues as suggested by another poster please?

I'm not sure how it works but you might need to PM them. Perhaps try Neyite?

central

Thanks Sligo1 I PM'd them after I posted that realising that probably wasn't the way to go about it. Cheers for the help

central

zeffabelli wrote: »

If you go to court, you are seeking an international shared custody order. That is what family court does. It issues court orders. And this one will be cross borders and very difficult to enforce.

Whether or not she has another child is irrelevent. Comparing this to how many kids a residential parent has is irrelevant and not germane. This is not my intention, I just want to show like for like.

The boy already has very limited contact with his father, and of that limited contact if he has to come to your home, he will then again have to share that limited contact - limiting it further. He has as much contact as we can/she can manage and while it is limited, that is not our fault. My husband sees his son as often as possible and speaks with him every 2nd day

They are not being punished, she is securing time (resources) with the father for her child, because this resource (time with the father) is scarce and having to share it with the residential child, who enjoys the father all the time, she may feel is not fair on her son. Her actions of late are unfair to all parties and as you do not know the full story I am surprised by how black and white you are being about all this. I feel you haven't considered what I have said and I feel you think I am DEMANDING XYZ when all we are trying to do is for my stepson to see his father as often and with the same rules as he did before as it worked, for everyone. This sudden game change is not acceptable, most of all for the child involved.

If you really want him to come to Ireland and avoid courts maybe offer to take the baby off to your parents for the weekend so that he and his dad can really have some time together? See how that suggestion fares out? This is not going to happen. He has always stayed with us in our home and gets pretty much undivided attention from his Dad. We are a "family unit" before baby came along and will be going forward. Asking me to vacate my home with a small baby is not solving anything.

Yes he does want to see his father, and she is not stopping him from doing that. She's is stopping him from having to share a limited resource with new competition.

You may want things to be the way they were, but they wont be nor can they be, because you have another child now. Have you asked her why the change? Why not get your husband to ask her why she has changed things?

We have asked her many times and her repeated answers are:
1. "I can't stand you and don't want you in my life" (to my husband)
2. "I am not comfortable with your wife being around my son because she shouted at me" (Again it was one time, one conversation that lasted aa couple of minutes, not in front of her son or mine and I did apologise for losing my temper)
3. "Because I said so, he is MY son and I decide" (wrong - he is both your son)

Taltos

Mod Note
Moved to PI.
For anyone who has followed this thread please ensure you read the charter before posting. PI is strictly moderated and breaches of the charter are normally actioned.

Thanks
Taltos

Miaireland

You are probably not going to like my answer but I can't see a court case going in your favour. Be honest, would you expect a Judge rule that a child goes on 6 or flights a year when his father can fly over to him. You mention that you live in a small two bedroomed house and that he will have to share a room with someone who is practically a stranger to him. A judge is going to take this into account?

You are pretty much a stranger to him and you are a stranger to his mother. To be honest if I was a mother I would be wary of some one who starts shouting and roaring down a phone about a decision I made about my child. I would accept your apology but may not be happy about sending my child to you given you are so far away.

You seem to be focusing on her having the communion here. It doesn't matter why she had it here. Maybe she wanted to provoke a react.

I am not trying to be negative but I would give very serious consideration to any legal case. I don't think you have a strong position. The Judge could very easily rule in the ex's favour and cement in stone that your husband will have to go to his child home place.

central

Thanks for your reply Miaireland. It's not that I dislike your answer it's that I am not sure people are getting what I am saying. My stepson has been in my life as a constant for the past 6 years, while I may not see him every day/week I make every effort and speak with him all the time on the phone/Facetime/Skype. He has come on holidays with my husband and I and with my family.

While I know nothing about the law I would assume ALL facts would be taken into account by a judge. The basic facts being:
1. I have met his mother, she has spent time in my company.
2. Her son is my stepson and has spent oodles of time with me, with her consent, over a 6 year period
3. Up until recently my husband's ex has had no issue with him spending time with us in our home, albeit small, but a loving home none the less. And for the amount of time he stays with us (max 2 weeks at a time) he is in a large room, in a single bed with plenty of space.
4. I agree, I should not have shouted at her, this was the first time this ever happened in the 6 years we have known each other and I think everyone loses their temper at some stage or another, I know she has lost it with my husband in the past. Not excusing my behaviour but people lose their temper, it's natural. Up to me losing my temper there was no issue with her son coming to us and staying with us at any time. I find it hard to believe she has changed all plans/rules after one max 5 minute conversation we had.
5. Maintenance is paid in full, on time each month.
6. Her son is always collected and dropped back by my husband to her.

If my husband has to go to his home then fair enough but again I would like to hope a judge considers the child in this case, which of course they would, but I would hope they would look at the fact there has never been a problem, until now. My stepson is more than happy to come to Ireland to visit his daddy and his brother and I and he keeps asking his mother when can he and when will he see Daddy, this to me is unfair on him as he is too young to understand all the reasons behind it but is also old enough to speak his own mind, to a certain extent.

Miaireland

I am not an expert in Law and particularly given the unusual circumstances in your case.

However you need to bear in mind that she is not stopping your husband from seeing his son. She is certainly making it more difficiult and costly for him to do so but as yet has not stopped.

Has she actually stopped you from visiting the boy? Your financial situation is stopping you and your child going as you stated. However you do not say has she prevented you from flying over?

Do step-parent have a legal right of access at all? Both in Ireland and the county the child is based in?

You are probably right, she has not changed the rules/plans on the basis of a phone call. She probably doesn't like you and this is a very handy excuse for her to use.

However I think your husband will need to do a lot of research before going down the legal route. Bear in mind this could sour relations between the parents even more. It could also prove very costly with little or nothing gained.

irishdude11

central wrote: »

4. I agree, I should not have shouted at her, this was the first time this ever happened in the 6 years we have known each other and I think everyone loses their temper at some stage or another, I know she has lost it with my husband in the past. Not excusing my behaviour but people lose their temper, it's natural.

It's not natural to be loosing your temper and being aggressive to someone you hardly know. Outside of a relationship, adults generally don't go around losing their temper with friends/acquantenaces. Complete strangers maybe, because they don't have to deal with them again...but certainly shouting and swearing at people you have to have social contact with doesn't happen.

If the shoe was on the other foot and your husband left you and went off with some other woman, and then you had a conversation with this woman about your son and she shouted and swore at you for a decision you made regarding his life what would you think of it?

Edit:
I think you should avoid wasting a fortune on an international family law case because I think you will lose from the facts you have presented here and I think even if you won it is basically unenforceable and in the end it will have caused her so much hassle she will make it even more difficult for your husband to see his son.

njs030

Op I've noticed you keep saying people don't understand you, what do you think they don't understand?

Firstly it's irrelevant if she's is getting divorced or breaking up with her current partner, it's still emotionally painful.
Secondly you do not have the same relationship with her as your ex does and its not ok to justify shouting at her with "she shouted at my husband". They had a relationship and a child, your husband chose to leave the country his child lives in and leave her to do the bulk of bringing him up alone.
You could find a judge might not view him in a great light no matter how many times he visits given that he chose less contact than he could have had staying.

I don't know what has made her change her mind on her son visiting you but I'm pretty sure no judge is going to order her to allow your husband to take the child out of the country he lives in.
The important relationship is father and child, he is still seeing his father so would you consider letting the dust settle before headlong rushing into court preceedings that could well annoy her even more and your husband and his child end up worse off.
Does your husband have parental rights over the child? If not he has no rights anyway.

I can see you are struggling and I imagine it's upsetting but maybe try to find a way to connect with her rather than causing more problems. She must be going through a very hard time with 2 children and her relationship breaking down. Sometimes a bit of space works wonders.

chuckster

Hi OP,

My father and step-mother live in a different country from me, I was 7 when I met her and her and her family have been a HUGE part of my life for 25 years. I saw them once a year normally, twice a few times, and yes at the start it was not without the rough times as herself and my own mother have never been on good terms but it gets better over time.

I think a previous poster has dated view regarding blended families, your parents and you may in effect be strangers to his mother but you are all family to your stepson. Your parents are a part of his life now and his mother will probably realise this with time (seems like she already had if he went on holidays with them but is being petty now re the communion)

I just want to say that I think it's lovely the way you and your family obviously have so much love for your step son, the concern you are showing here about seeing him clearly demonstrates that.

I remember a similar situation between with my own mother and step mother which stemmed from her roaring down the phone at my mam, yes we are all entitled to lose our tempers but it leaves a sour taste when you are berating a mother for what she chooses to do with her child whether you agree with it or not), his mother holds all the cards here so it would seem that the best thing you can do is be patient with her(regardless if you think she is in the wrong). Give her time to get over whatever she is going through now regarding her break-up.

I know you want to see your stepson and let him spend time with your child but my advice would be to tell your husband to go visit his son himself right now (as it is not financially viable for you all). Let her see that he is making the effort to go visit despite her not being co-operative and show that you are willing to take a backseat for awhile while she gets over her issue of the phone call. It shows you are taking her feelings into consideration, and then address it with her again down the road. You need to let your husband deal with this for now. I understand this is frustrating for you now but speaking from experience it will be the best in the long run. I also have a younger sister from my dads second marriage and we couldn't be closer, despite the distance we have lived apart, so dont worry about your son not seeing him during this rough patch.

Best of luck with the whole thing OP.

DaisyD2

OP I know you are trying your best to blend families but honestly there is Nothing You can do. Its honestly up to your husband. You can't know why or how long his ex might cause difficulties but you do know she is going to be in your lives going forward as an extension of your stepson so its best to tread lightly & remain on good terms.

An elderly relation came home one day to find the (unmarried) partner of her son had packed herself & 8yro child up & moved to New Zealand! She had been living in her house 10yrs & just upped sticks! Relation can't travel so has seen him once in over 5yrs while her son has to take his months holidays together once a year to go & visit with his son. First couple of visits the NZ grandparents put him up as they felt ashamed of their daughter but she withdrew access for them so now he stays in motel where grandparents bring child after school everyday - there are people in the world that make you seriously scratch your head!

I have another friend living in US & co-parenting beautifully with ex in London. Her 10yro now travels alone (airline assisted) across the world on her holidays to spend time with both sets of grandparents & cousins as well as Dad - she loves it! Dad also has open invitation to stay with them in US whenever he likes and their system works.

Trick is to let childs Parents come to arrangement that works for all & Just be there for your husband when shes being difficult. The child is in school now but won't be forever, who knows he may want to come here for college years

zeffabelli

central wrote: »

We have asked her many times and her repeated answers are:
1. "I can't stand you and don't want you in my life" (to my husband)
2. "I am not comfortable with your wife being around my son because she shouted at me" (Again it was one time, one conversation that lasted aa couple of minutes, not in front of her son or mine and I did apologise for losing my temper)
3. "Because I said so, he is MY son and I decide" (wrong - he is both your son)

1. True, she probably does hate him. This is pretty typical unless you make efforts at good relations and with that distance it wont happen.

2. Ok you are not getting this. She does not know you, you are a stranger to her, and then you yell at her about a decision she has made for her child. No he is not only her child, but he is definitely not YOUR child and no you should not be yelling at another mother about decisions she makes her her child. You may have apologised, and Im sure you are sorry, but you still can't make those decisions for her.

3. Yes he is both of their sons, but she is the custodial parent, and he only sees the child 6 times a year. No matter how close you think you are, you really only have a very partial understanding of the child's life. He left when the baby was one. This is not a father who was residential and present through the formative years. Consider yourself lucky that she has open phone calls and facetime, many would find this intrusive and not allow it.

4. How would you feel if she started yelling at you about what you should do with your child? And had insited her parents attend his Christening? They are not his family.

Your husband has two children, by two women, in two countries. This is not going to be easy.

She is a single parent, even aside frm financial issues, she simply is not going to have the supports in place to provide extra help to you guys.

Honestly I don't think you have a hope in hell in court getting a court to enforce international transportation of a 7year old and hoping it will be enforced. And you will create so much bad will, that one mistake and the first port of call will be Interpol.

irishdude11

I think your best course of action is to completely back off, and let your husband continue going abroad to visit his son, giving her plenty of space as someone above suggested. She already has a problem with you, and now she'll see it as you trying to force her to send her son over to your home.

Again...shoe on the other foot time, what would you think if your ex and his partner (who shouted and swore at you previously about your decisions for you child) started threatening legal action to force you to send your child to another country? I imagine you would hit the roof. Well that's what she is going to be like if you take this route which is pointless anyway as I don't see any chance of it being granted in the first place, and unenforceable even if it was.

You have zero leverage and she could make things ALOT more difficult if you keep pushing her. She could just drop contact with your husband entirely if she was that way inclined, especially with her being in another country. Leave her be and in a year or two of everything running smoothly with no hassle for her your husband can suggest bringing his son over again. I don't see any better option.

central

Thank you all for your replies.

I have not been 100% clear in what I have been posting here and not giving the full story so I appreciate your replies with the limited info I have given.

I have read all your comments and while I agree with you all, there are a few points I will make:

My "words" with her were not about her child and what she was choosing to do or not to do with him etc as I would NEVER tell someone how to raise their child, no matter what I thought. The discussion was to do with how she dealt with something and her reasoning behind it, nothing to do with her child.

I feel I am being misunderstood a little because obviously I can't and haven't gone into all the details and given all the information about our relationship, albeit estranged or not, as I would be here until next year trying to give you all a full background and in hindsight, maybe I should have.

I posted this on my husband's behalf, it is his child and his ex, and while I will have nothing to do what happens and how, I am still supportive and interested in knowing how we go about it, should we go ahead with it etc.

As I have stated a few times, I have tried to be civil and pleasant to her and each time I am met with rudeness. I am now at the stage where I am happy not to see her at all as there is too much tension there and I feel like a muppet being pleasant and civil. I was always brought up to have good manners and while this isn't about being the bigger person or having the upper hand, I must admit I am drained offering the olive branch.

Any decision my husband makes regarding his son does and will affect me as we are a family unit and we make these decisions together. Again, it is nothing to do with me as he is not my son but he is my stepson whom I love dearly and really want him in my life but I also appreciate she is his mother and no matter how crazy and irrational I think her decisions are I have to go with them, as I have no say, legally or otherwise, in the upbringing of her child, nor would I ever try to take that away from her. Her little boy is a beautiful, well mannered, well behaved little boy and I have always said that. No matter how bad things could get between her and I, I would never speak badly of her as a mother on the day to day raising of her child in general, he is a credit to her.

After lots of talking and discussing over the weekend my husband has decided to let things be for now and re-evaluate after Christmas, that will be 1 full year where she has had 100% say in their child's visits etc. Again, I know she is a single parent now but that does not give her the right to blank out my husband, her child's father, without good cause or reason. If my husband was in any way mistreating their son, didn't care if he saw him or not, or made no effort with his son I would completely agree with her and would not be with a man like that but apart from the one conversation I had with her where I lost my temper, she has no reason to behave this way. Each to their own of course but in my mind it doesn't make sense, maybe I am being a naive idiot!

Taboola

central wrote: »

My "words" with her were not about her child and what she was choosing to do or not to do with him etc as I would NEVER tell someone how to raise their child, no matter what I thought. The discussion was to do with how she dealt with something and her reasoning behind it, nothing to do with her child.

TBH it doesn't really matter what the words were about. If anyone lost their temper and lowered themselves to shouting at me I wouldn't be quick to allow my child be in their company.

central

Yep, fair point Taboola. As I have said NUMEROUS times, I am not proud of this and I did apologise and it shouldn't have happened. It doesn't excuse it but in the grand scheme of things this is very minor in how she is treating my husband and her child given she has had no issue in the past with him being in my company after only meeting him for the first time and ever since, so hard to take this lying down if you see my point?

zeffabelli

central wrote: »

My "words" with her were not about her child and what she was choosing to do or not to do with him etc as I would NEVER tell someone how to raise their child, no matter what I thought. The discussion was to do with how she dealt with something and her reasoning behind it, nothing to do with her child.

Blame.

central wrote: »

I feel I am being misunderstood a little because obviously I can't and haven't gone into all the details and given all the information about our relationship, albeit estranged or not, as I would be here until next year trying to give you all a full background and in hindsight, maybe I should have.

I posted this on my husband's behalf, it is his child and his ex, and while I will have nothing to do what happens and how, I am still supportive and interested in knowing how we go about it, should we go ahead with it etc.

Blame.

central wrote: »

As I have stated a few times, I have tried to be civil and pleasant to her and each time I am met with rudeness. I am now at the stage where I am happy not to see her at all as there is too much tension there and I feel like a muppet being pleasant and civil. I was always brought up to have good manners and while this isn't about being the bigger person or having the upper hand, I must admit I am drained offering the olive branch.

Blame.

central wrote: »

Any decision my husband makes regarding his son does and will affect me as we are a family unit and we make these decisions together. Again, it is nothing to do with me as he is not my son but he is my stepson whom I love dearly and really want him in my life but I also appreciate she is his mother and no matter how crazy and irrational I think her decisions are I have to go with them, as I have no say, legally or otherwise, in the upbringing of her child, nor would I ever try to take that away from her. Her little boy is a beautiful, well mannered, well behaved little boy and I have always said that. No matter how bad things could get between her and I, I would never speak badly of her as a mother on the day to day raising of her child in general, he is a credit to her.

Shame.

Judgementalism and condescension.

central wrote: »

After lots of talking and discussing over the weekend my husband has decided to let things be for now and re-evaluate after Christmas, that will be 1 full year where she has had 100% say in their child's visits etc. Again, I know she is a single parent now but that does not give her the right to blank out my husband, her child's father, without good cause or reason. If my husband was in any way mistreating their son, didn't care if he saw him or not, or made no effort with his son I would completely agree with her and would not be with a man like that but apart from the one conversation I had with her where I lost my temper, she has no reason to behave this way. Each to their own of course but in my mind it doesn't make sense, maybe I am being a naive idiot!

Blame.

central

Wow zeffabelli do you really think I am making myself out to be a victim here? I am merely stating how I feel and what has happened. Your remarks are uncalled for and do I get a hint of bitterness??

zeffabelli

central wrote: »

Wow zeffabelli do you really think I am making myself out to be a victim here?

Yes.

And I think you are refusing to look at how you might be communicating.

central

I have accepted all replies and agreed with them, maybe you should go back and read my responses to all the replies and you will see this?? This is a forum where you can post about your issues and ask for help, which is exactly what I have done. While I am being open to all responses and have admitted my mistake(s) I don't think your replies are looking at all angles either. I am communicating as best I can with the limited information I have/can give.

zeffabelli

central wrote: »

I have accepted all replies and agreed with them, maybe you should go back and read my responses to all the replies and you will see this?? This is a forum where you can post about your issues and ask for help, which is exactly what I have done. While I am being open to all responses and have admitted my mistake(s) I don't think your replies are looking at all angles either. I am communicating as best I can with the limited information I have/can give.

You are moralising and blaming and refusing to look at the other point of view.

You cannot say you have nothing to do with what happens when you also say you make these decisions jointly.

What I see is a refusal to take even 1% of the responsibility in the conflict.

I have tried to highlight for your sake by the way all the language that stinks of blame, so that you might be able to change how you communicate and make improvements, and then you ask if Im bitter.

You know what, I have tried to help you enough, and clearly you don't want the help. I don't really know what you want here.

I've already eplained why she doesnt want the boy over there and it has nothing to do with you or your temper or anything like that. So get over thinking it is that and trying to paint her as irrational and spiteful.

It is because of the new baby and competition for limited time with his father. That's all it is. Accept it and move on.

CaraMay

zeffabelli wrote: »

Yes.

And I think you are refusing to look at how you might be communicating.

Op you are justifying (in your own mind) why you shouted at her and tbh it doesn't stack up. We have a nasty ex in our lives too and I would never, ever get into a row with her. There are no excuses. My job is to help look after her kids when they are in our card and that's it. Tbh in that woman's shoes I would do the same. This is outside the realms of adult behaviour and, for all she knows, you could be shouting at her son when he is there.

Dealing with ex's is never easy but then again you seem to have gone out of your way to make it harder for all involved.

Its an awful position to be in and I think time is the only thing that will heal this.

Sligo1

zeffabelli wrote: »

So get over thinking it is that and trying to paint her as irrational and spiteful.

It is because of the new baby and competition for limited time with his father. That's all it is. Accept it and move on.

I'm sorry but this is absolutely irrational and spiteful of the ex!

OP I think you're making the right decision by backing off and leaving things for a few months to let the water settle.

zeffabelli

Sligo1 wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is absolutely irrational and spiteful of the ex!

OP I think you're making the right decision by backing off and leaving things for a few months to let the water settle.

No it isn't. Think about it.

The dad has been gone for six years. He sees the child six times a year. Up until now the child has had exclusive, albeit limited time with his father...though having to share taht with a step mother.

Now with a new baby, if the child goes to dad's residence he has to share what is already limited time with the new baby.

As his mother, she is going to do what she can do for her child to maximise those resources. Remember, she is not denying access, but she is restricting it so that the child has more time with his father under already constrained limitations.

It makes a kind of sense. It definitely makes sense anthropologically.

Miaireland

From the story you have told us he is not being blocked out by her. She is not stopping him from travelling to see her son. She is not making it as easy for him but does not appear to be blocking him from what you said. What she is doing is affecting you and your sons ability to see him by wanting him to remain at home. This is due to your financial situation.

Yes you are a family and make decisions as a family unit but in this incident I think that you need to back off and leave this between your husband and his ex. I think that you are making a hard situation must worse for your husband. He seems to be trying to please everyone.

You saw what happened with the conversation you had with her. Really it was not your place to ask her how she dealt with something and her reasoning behind it. That is your husbands place not yours and it got her back up and made everything worse for everyone. For the sake of everyone involved you need to step away. Sorry to be blunt but you need to stop blaming the ex and look at the whole situation.

Sligo1

zeffabelli wrote: »

No it isn't. Think about it.

The dad has been gone for six years. He sees the child six times a year. Up until now the child has had exclusive, albeit limited time with his father...though having to share taht with a step mother.

Now with a new baby, if the child goes to dad's residence he has to share what is already limited time with the new baby.

As his mother, she is going to do what she can do for her child to maximise those resources. Remember, she is not denying access, but she is restricting it so that the child has more time with his father under already constrained limitations.

It makes a kind of sense. It definitely makes sense anthropologically.

But she is being extremely irrational and spiteful as she is blocking the child from seeing his brother. Yes his half brother... But still his blood relative. This is an awful thing to do. And there's nothig to say the father wouldn't still go over all those times he is.... But the child would get even extra time aswell by being able to visit Ireland aswell as the 6 times his father goes over to visit him.

zeffabelli

Sligo1 wrote: »

But she is being extremely irrational and spiteful as she is blocking the child from seeing his brother. Yes his half brother... But still his blood relative. This is an awful thing to do. And there's nothig to say the father wouldn't still go over all those times he is.... But the child would get even extra time aswell by being able to visit Ireland aswell as the 6 times his father goes over to visit him.

Has this been discussed? Has dad broached the subject of bringing the baby with him to visit? Yeah its important, but the priority is the father/child relationship.

OP, would you let your husband travel with the baby? I think babies under 1 are free....

njs030

Op, I sympathise with you up to a point but I have to say that if you talk to her the way you've talked about her on this thread she's probably had enough of you and doesn't want you in her son's life.
Some of your comments have been shocking and very condescending and you seem to be oblivious to the hard work this woman puts into sustaining the relationship between father and child. It's all very negative.


Every post you make is variations on "why can't everyone see I'm right" you even tried to justify shouting at her!
The reality is your husband left his child and moved country leaving her to do the majority of the hard work.

I think you could do with putting yourself in her shoes for a little while and not being so high and mighty.

Sligo1

zeffabelli wrote: »

Has this been discussed? Has dad broached the subject of bringing the baby with him to visit? Yeah its important, but the priority is the father/child relationship.

OP, would you let your husband travel with the baby? I think babies under 1 are free....

R u kidding... If he's staying in a hotel etc this is far far far from ideal for a young baby...

zeffabelli

Sligo1 wrote: »

R u kidding... If he's staying in a hotel etc this is far far far from ideal for a young baby...

Well, the other child has been travelling since he was one....

All of this is far from the ideal, two kids, two women, two countries. Seriously, massive compromises.

Sligo1

zeffabelli wrote: »

Has this been discussed? Has dad broached the subject of bringing the baby with him to visit? Yeah its important, but the priority is the father/child relationship.

OP, would you let your husband travel with the baby? I think babies under 1 are free....

And also to note... Would this not just then contradict your arguement that the ex doesn't want the child coming over to Ireland as the child would not get dads 100%. If the father goes to the country with the baby the child would get even less time as the father would have the baby with no wife to mind the baby... He would have the baby 100% of the time then... So this goes completely against your initial logic...

zeffabelli

Sligo1 wrote: »

And also to note... Would this not just then contradict your arguement that the ex doesn't want the child coming over to Ireland as the child would not get dads 100%. If the father goes to the country with the baby the child would get even less time as the father would have the baby with no wife to mind the baby... He would have the baby 100% of the time then... So this goes completely against your initial logic...

Ah no...I don't know if the first wife would object to it or not philsophically, but she can't actually stop that from happening, so if that is OPs priority, she can suggest he take the baby with him.

Children under two are free.

Wife 1 can stop her boy from coming over here though.

Miaireland

Sligo1 wrote: »

But she is being extremely irrational and spiteful as she is blocking the child from seeing his brother. Yes his half brother... But still his blood relative. This is an awful thing to do. And there's nothig to say the father wouldn't still go over all those times he is.... But the child would get even extra time aswell by being able to visit Ireland aswell as the 6 times his father goes over to visit him.

To be fair we do not know if she is or not. Has she ever said that OP is not welcome to bring the baby along. The OP says that they can not afford for them all to fly out, that is not the exs doing.

Sligo1

Miaireland wrote: »

To be fair we do not know if she is or not. Has she ever said that OP is not welcome to bring the baby along. The OP says that they can not afford for them all to fly out, that is not the exs doing.

Yea I know.. Just that it seemed zeffabelli was stating his/her opinion as fact when we don't really know that this is the reason. Was just being Devils advocate.