Post Marathon recovery phase

rom

Having made a mess of this before. All buzzing from my new PB I'd over do it and it would result in me getting run down.

So this time post London was week nearly completely off then ever 2nd day a run at recovery pace. For me that 9:20 per mile compared to 6:40 MP at a max 40 mins each time.

So I am wondering with lots of talk on here re which plan to do the post race recovery is rarely talked about. How do you do yours. What have you found works and doesn't work?

TFBubendorfer

I do most of my marathons as training runs, which doesn't require quite the same level of recovery because I don't run them at full effort. However, it gave me the opportunity to really perfect my recovery strategy.

In the days after the race I run 5 miles a day, very slowly and I just run by feel. Usually that's about 9-minute pace at first (about 2 mins slower than my race pace) and gradually comes down over the next few days, but I never once check the watch while I'm running.

Once the legs feel better I increase the distance to 8 miles and later still to 10 miles. I don't set a fixed number of days, just go by the way the legs feel. The 5-mile phase can last from 3 days to a week, after that it usually goes a bit quicker.

I find that I recover much quicker if I do those 5 mile runs than if I rest completely. This works so well for me that I started using the same recovery strategy after goal races, though recovery takes a lot longer in that case, not only because the effort is higher but the race distance as well in my case.

Jmcmen

Alright Rom,
Was wondering the same last night myself funnily enough.

Checked the London thread and seen I finished 11sec's ahead of you! What wear you wearing? Meant to do a wee report but just didn't get the chance yet as I was on holidays last week and now playing catch up on work this week.

I am interested in this as I made a mess of this last November and did myself a serious knee injury that put be out for 8 weeks with limited training over the following 6 weeks.

So last week I did a 2milers on Friday at a snails pace and a 4miler on the Saturday at an equally slow pace. My clafs were still sore. I didn't have enough training done for a 2.54 but managed to pull it off some how but paid the price with the sore body.
Didn't get out this week with work etc but in a way glad but feel so unhealthy (mainly due to eating crap these past 2 weeks). Might tip out for a 5milers this evening and one again in the morning.

Been tipping in and out to work though on the bike so that's helping to loosen out the legs.

Would be interested on how long before thinking about ramping up the training again. Have no plans as yet but eager to build on the base I have at the moment

PS - Just checked the results and the Photos, looks like you passed me on the finishing straight!!! Fair play to you finishing strong, I was goosed at that point

rom

Jmcmen wrote: »

Alright Rom,
Was wondering the same last night myself funnily enough.

Checked the London thread and seen I finished 11sec's ahead of you! What wear you wearing? Meant to do a wee report but just didn't get the chance yet as I was on holidays last week and now playing catch up on work this week.

I am interested in this as I made a mess of this last November and did myself a serious knee injury that put be out for 8 weeks with limited training over the following 6 weeks.

So last week I did a 2milers on Friday at a snails pace and a 4miler on the Saturday at an equally slow pace. My clafs were still sore. I didn't have enough training done for a 2.54 but managed to pull it off some how but paid the price with the sore body.
Didn't get out this week with work etc but in a way glad but feel so unhealthy (mainly due to eating crap these past 2 weeks). Might tip out for a 5milers this evening and one again in the morning.

Been tipping in and out to work though on the bike so that's helping to loosen out the legs.

Would be interested on how long before thinking about ramping up the training again. Have no plans as yet but eager to build on the base I have at the moment

PS - Just checked the results and the Photos, looks like you passed me on the finishing straight!!! Fair play to you finishing strong, I was goosed at that point

Red singlet.
Yeah it says I passed 172 and was passed by 9 in the last 7.2k. tbh I probably should have gone hard at 22 miles but I had no idea what time was on the watch as I was only looking at the clocks on the route. Training hadn't gone to play and because of this I was thinking about dns a few weeks back tbh.

Probably go back to easy running next week at like 7:45 pace or so and work sessions in the week after the again I just do what I am told

Actually did you see them stopping me just before the mall asking about my number if it was valid. Note to self don't fold it in future.

opus

rom wrote: »

So I am wondering with lots of talk on here re which plan to do the post race recovery is rarely talked about. How do you do yours. What have you found works and doesn't work?

I just go by how I feel tbh, so did zero running the w/end after the Boston marathon as was tired from the flight back as well as the run itself. After that I just tried to get back on the plan I'm following for another race although wasn't 100% successful with an aborted hill session last week.

aero2k

I've tried various approaches.

When I was in my "run every day no matter what" phase, I'd do 3 or 4 miles easy for a few days afterwards (9 min miles) then gradually build back up over 3 or 4 weeks to normal mileage. Back then, I used to have very stiff legs and great difficulty with stairs for a few days after the race.

More recently I haven't had much stiffness and I've followed the post marathon recovery as per P & D - 2 days off, then easy running a few days per week, gradually increasing the days per week and mileage.

This time round, having followed Hanson, I was in two minds - take 2 days off as per P & D or 2 complete weeks off as per Hanson? I split the difference, took a week off, then jumped into the P & D plan. I did take 3 days in a row off this week (week 4 post Rotterdam) due to a very tender calf which Ecolii very kindly fixed for me - maybe that 10k PB effort last Monday wasn't a great idea...

One feature of my last 3 marathons has been that despite the body feeling surprisingly good in the immediate aftermath I've experienced a sort of delayed reaction: 3 or 4 days later I've felt really shattered, sort of like having the flu without the sniffles or fever, just really drained. I'm assuming that this is down to the effects of the race-induced chemicals finally returning to normal levels, but maybe it's partly psychological?

demfad

Whatever way you do the recovery phase: you want to recover but you also might not want to lose the strenght gained from the actual marathon race.

Ive never done it but more than one experienced runner has told me that there is a potentially very good HM (from 4 weeks on) post marathon.

Coming back too quick is a danger but coming back to slow or letting things slide is also.

3 recovery weeks, then even one speed type and one HM session and anyone should run a very strong HM. Advantage then is you've made the transition back to normal or base training in very decent shape.


Edit: as Rgds recovery phase I always took it too easy after marathons to date so cant comment on details.

Bulmers74

demfad wrote: »

Whatever way you do the recovery phase: you want to recover but you also might not want to lose the strenght gained from the actual marathon race.

Ive never done it but more than one experienced runner has told me that there is a potentially very good HM (from 4 weeks on) post marathon.

Coming back too quick is a danger but coming back to slow or letting things slide is also.

3 recovery weeks, then even one speed type and one HM session and anyone should run a very strong HM. Advantage then is you've made the transition back to normal or base training in very decent shape.


Edit: as Rgds recovery phase I always took it too easy after marathons to date so cant comment on details.

When you talk about recovery weeks do you mean all easy running?

demfad

Bulmers74 wrote: »

When you talk about recovery weeks do you mean all easy running?

No, I mean follow whatever recovery marathon schedule you have. It will usually be easy for the first 2 weeks. You might get some strides and a short sub threshold run in week 3. If you've recovered after week 3, then a session of say 200s should get your leg speed back enough to have a real cut at a HM.
e.g 200 fast, jog 200......times 6. Jog 4-5 mins
repeat set 2-3 times.
or else do whatever session you use to get the pep back in the legs.


Your legs will be strong as a horse from the marathon race. If the HM is 5 weeks after the marathon on week 4 you might get in a session like: 10 x 1k @ HM pace or slightly faster with loads of recovery (2 mins) run completely relaxed.
This isn't a heavy session, its controlled and would just program the legs into HM rythm, you'll have the strenght for that pace, no problems.

Maybe 10 x 100m a few days before and youre good to go.


Basically follow a recovery plan you like the look of. Then youll need to get a speed session in for sure, and a HM session if youve time. The above is what I would do but you'll know best what might suit you.

Point is the potential may be there for a good HM.

Are you in that situation?

Bulmers74

Yeah - did Limerick last weekend as my 3rd marathon. 2 previous times I followed a McMillan recovery plan & pb'd both times in HM, 5 weeks after raceday. Think last time I overdid the volume & intensity & could've done better if I took it a bit easier. Have been looking at a few different recovery plans during the week and am still undecided.

demfad

Bulmers74 wrote: »

Yeah - did Limerick last weekend as my 3rd marathon. 2 previous times I followed a McMillan recovery plan & pb'd both times in HM, 5 weeks after raceday. Think last time I overdid the volume & intensity & could've done better if I took it a bit easier. Have been looking at a few different recovery plans during the week and am still undecided.

Grand. Taking it a bit easier is the way to go. You'll be strong enough big time.
You just want to recover while conserving your fitness/strenght and then do the couple of easy sessions to prep the legs for the HM.

You could do: 6 x 35s then recovery 70s or jog back for the speed session.
2-3 sets. Start in absolute control @ 5k pace for the first. Each rep completely relaxed. Dont push it at all (youre strong enough) just smooth.
Pace will naturally increase. Start each set just a little quicker than the last.

Same for the other session. You can do 10-12 x 3 mins @ i hour race pace recovery 2 mins.
If you go at that speed you'll be able to run each rep completely relaxed with smooth breathing. You'll feel it in the quads for the last couple but that's what you want.

Another 6-10 x 10s strides a day or two before the race (whichever day suits you best). Start the HM on pace and you'll know what to do after.

May not be the best place to continue discussing this but PM me if youd like any more.

NetwerkErrer

demfad wrote: »

Grand. Taking it a bit easier is the way to go. You'll be strong enough big time.
You just want to recover while conserving your fitness/strenght and then do the couple of easy sessions to prep the legs for the HM.



You could do: 6 x 35s then recovery 70s or jog back for the speed session.
2-3 sets. Start in absolute control @ 5k pace for the first. Each rep completely relaxed. Dont push it at all (youre strong enough) just smooth.
Pace will naturally increase. Start each set just a little quicker than the last.

Same for the other session. You can do 10-12 x 3 mins @ i hour race pace recovery 2 mins.
If you go at that speed you'll be able to run each rep completely relaxed with smooth breathing. You'll feel it in the quads for the last couple but that's what you want.

Another 6-10 x 10s strides a day or two before the race (whichever day suits you best). Start the HM on pace and you'll know what to do after.

May not be the best place to continue discussing this but PM me if youd like any more.

Why not? isn't this the place to discuss this? Seems sketchy! You don't work out of a Hilton in Kenya by any chance?:pac:

demfad

NetwerkErrer wrote: »

Why not? isn't this the place to discuss this? Seems sketchy! You don't work out of a Hilton in Kenya by any chance?:pac:

I don't get the Kenya reference? (It may be funny, but I dont get it!)

The thread is about post race recovery. I'm discussing sessions for a post marathon HM. I'm aware that there hasn't been much discussion of the OP so don't want to drag it away with several tangental posts.

Its a good idea for a thread and an area that should be covered in detail. Im sure plenty of people here have successfully recovered using different programs and their own.

That said Im happy to keep the post marathon HM discussion here if its of benefit.

rom

demfad wrote: »

I don't get the Kenya reference? (It may be funny, but I dont get it!)

The thread is about post race recovery. I'm discussing sessions for a post marathon HM. I'm aware that there hasn't been much discussion of the OP so don't want to drag it away with several tangental posts.

Its a good idea for a thread and an area that should be covered in detail. Im sure plenty of people here have successfully recovered using different programs and their own.

That said Im happy to keep the post marathon HM discussion here if its of benefit.

You wanted to talk in PM as if somehow talking about training here was a no no. It is funny in the context that most of the threads on here actually have nothing to do with athletics.

adrian522

BTW the reason I thanked NE's post was because it was a really interesting discussion and I'd like to see it on thread rather than taken to PM.

demfad

rom wrote: »

You wanted to talk in PM as if somehow talking about training here was a no no. It is funny in the context that most of the threads on here actually have nothing to do with athletics.

Fair enough!

NetwerkErrer

Nevermind the Kenya reference, a poor doping joke. I was basically saying to post it up here instead of keeping it secret.

demfad

OK so. Ye asked for it, Ill go off on one

The reason I suggest the 35s reps is because anything over 40s is anaerobic.
So you can get a good few of those in and get good pep into the legs without it being anaerobic (which isnt nessessary.)

Perfect for base building too (every 2 weeks I do them)


The other session: Say 12 x 3 mins @ LT rec 2 mins

That's 36 mins all run completely relaxed and nearly all the pressure coming as fatigue onto the legs while they are running with excellent form. Ive found ive been able to keep my shoulders relaxed all the way through that session.
Running that lenght of time relaxed and in good form was something completely new to me in a session.

The breathing shouldn't be laboured at all and nearly all the pressure eventually comes as a dull ache in the quads.

Again there is no need for a heavy session: the fitness is there but that one gets the legs into HM mode, and should give you something you didn't have before (the ability to run with good form when fatigued mid to late in a race).

Its also a good session to stick in if youre plateauing a bit say with tempo/threshold runs and you need to kick on.

Say you did something like an LT session: 2 x 20 mins. You suffered during the second 20 min and youre not sure if the session effort was worth it.
You seem to be running faster overall but the second one was tough and run with bad form.

Throw in the 12 x 3 mins all run smoothly. hey presto you have developed muscular endurance by running 36 mins relaxed at @ LT.

Try the 2 x 20 again. A huge improvement in the second 20. The issue was muscular endurance and not fitness. If you can now run the 2nd 20 well, you might fancy youre chances of a decent time in a 10 miler say.

I do that session on the main road in St Annes park in Raheny.
A good flat surface just to cement it in. The muscles are strenghtened in exactly the right way. Probably the most specific kind of strenght session you can do. (I think some of Iglooi's sessions had this objective too.)