Closed Accounts

DocQismyJesus

Accounts closing fast as wildfire! This place is supposed to be fun/ good craic! What do we do to make it great again? It sucks seeing good posters go!

My idea= mod free zone for a week . Let this place become like Lord of the Flies but let it emerge after as a better/ more constructive happy again place! Thoughts?

Kind of like "Hamsterdam" in The Wire

kit3

DocQismyJesus wrote: »

Accounts closing fast as wildfire! This place is supposed to be fun/ good craic! What do we do to make it great again? It sucks seeing good posters go!

My idea= mod free zone for a week . Let this place become like Lord of the Flies but let it emerge after as a better/ more constructive happy again place! Thoughts?

Kind of like "Hamsterdam" in The Wire

Who's gone now ??

RonanP77

DocQismyJesus wrote:

Accounts closing fast as wildfire! This place is supposed to be fun/ good craic! What do we do to make it great again? It sucks seeing good posters go!

Too many people seem to go on the attack lately, against newer posters especially. You're either called unambitious or delusional depending on your goals. People can accept constructive criticism but some of it goes way beyond that.

It seems to me that on most forums veteran posters are given a lot more leeway when it comes to arguments or insults too. Some posters obviously got fed up seeing that so they close their accounts. Maybe a Mod free week would let people really go at it and get it off their chest without fear of cards and bans.

DocQismyJesus

RonanP77 wrote: »

Too many people seem to go on the attack lately, against newer posters especially. You're either called unambitious or delusional depending on your goals. People can accept constructive criticism but some of it goes way beyond that.

It seems to me that on most forums veteran posters are given a lot more leeway when it comes to arguments or insults too. Some posters obviously got fed up seeing that so they close their accounts. Maybe a Mod free week would let people really go at it and get it off their chest without fear of cards and bans.

Like yer ideas. Most of the Vets are gone tho (closed accounts)

davedanon

Good riddance. The dinosaurs disappeared for a reason. Get some new blood in!

kit3

RonanP77 wrote: »

Too many people seem to go on the attack lately, against newer posters especially. You're either called unambitious or delusional depending on your goals. People can accept constructive criticism but some of it goes way beyond that.

It seems to me that on most forums veteran posters are given a lot more leeway when it comes to arguments or insults too. Some posters obviously got fed up seeing that so they close their accounts. Maybe a Mod free week would let people really go at it and get it off their chest without fear of cards and bans.

I think there's a big difference between going on the attack and giving advice/criticism based on experience. I've been around here for a few years now & have toyed with the idea of starting a log for a long time. Took the plunge recently for two reasons - to keep track of the times that I don't run & the reasons for this (hopefully not too many but see gaps in my paper log that would have seemed valid at the time but have no idea now why training was sparse) and the other reason was to attract that type of advice/criticism which I think would be invaluable. Unfortunately, there is a culture now whereby anything that's not saying 'well done' and 'sure you did your best' is seen as a negative and an attack. There doesn't seem to be any room in some logs for 'you could have done better if you had done x'. That, to me, is the real value of Boards & we're lucky that there are so many experienced & knowledgeable runners here that are willing to bother.

davedanon

kit3 wrote: »

I think there's a big difference between going on the attack and giving advice/criticism based on experience. I've been around here for a few years now & have toyed with the idea of starting a log for a long time. Took the plunge recently for two reasons - to keep track of the times that I don't run & the reasons for this (hopefully not too many but see gaps in my paper log that would have seemed valid at the time but have no idea now why training was sparse) and the other reason was to attract that type of advice/criticism which I think would be invaluable. Unfortunately, there is a culture now whereby anything that's not saying 'well done' and 'sure you did your best' is seen as a negative and an attack. There doesn't seem to be any room in some logs for 'you could have done better if you had done x'. That, to be, is the real value of Boards & we're lucky that there are so many experienced & knowledgeable runners here that are willing to bother.

I totally agree. I'm thinking of starting a training log, for exactly the same reasons. A guy I know in Rathfarnham AC always tells me to keep a training diary, and his advice after my (pb) run in London was to go back over my training and work out what went well, what didn't, and to tweak it accordingly for next time. His take was basically, 'ok, fine, well done. Now how are you going to get quicker?' I'd be more than happy to put my doings up online, because I think the sort of criticism/advice you get around here, be it occasionally on the robust side, is invaluable.

walshb

Account closers are just quitters. How they ever finish tough races I'll never know.

kit3

davedanon wrote: »

I totally agree. I'm thinking of starting a training log, for exactly the same reasons. A guy I know in Rathfarnham AC always tells me to keep a training diary, and his advice after my (pb) run in London was to go back over my training and work out what went well, what didn't, and to tweak it accordingly for next time. His take was basically, 'ok, fine, well done. Now how are you going to get quicker?' I'd be more than happy to put my doings up online, because I think the sort of criticism/advice you get around here, be it occasionally on the robust side, is invaluable.

Go for it D. I have a paper log which has basically listed my runs, where, how long etc but, baring the occasional note like 'sick', 'leg (?)', 'nose :rolleyes:' I'm lacking the detail of why I didn't run. I suspect that these times will become less the more I log & that I'll make more of an effort to find time when the kids are sick etc. Probably could do with being told to cop on quite a bit in reality

kit3

walshb wrote: »

Account closers are just quitters. How they ever finish tough races I'll never know.

Time for your log me thinks

RonanP77

kit3 wrote:

I think there's a big difference between going on the attack and giving advice/criticism based on experience. I've been around here for a few years now & have toyed with the idea of starting a log for a long time. Took the plunge recently for two reasons - to keep track of the times that I don't run & the reasons for this (hopefully not too many but see gaps in my paper log that would have seemed valid at the time but have no idea now why training was sparse) and the other reason was to attract that type of advice/criticism which I think would be invaluable. Unfortunately, there is a culture now whereby anything that's not saying 'well done' and 'sure you did your best' is seen as a negative and an attack. There doesn't seem to be any room in some logs for 'you could have done better if you had done x'. That, to me, is the real value of Boards & we're lucky that there are so many experienced & knowledgeable runners here that are willing to bother.

kit3 wrote:

Unfortunately, there is a culture now whereby anything that's not saying 'well done' and 'sure you did your best' is seen as a negative and an attack. There doesn't seem to be any room in some logs for 'you could have done better if you had done x'. That, to me, is the real value of Boards & we're lucky that there are so many experienced & knowledgeable runners here that are willing to bother.

I'm all for advice and what I would see as constructive criticism, that's not what I'm talking about. It's being told you have no ambition if you aim for a 20 min 5k, or you're lazy for aiming for 55 min 1st 10k when you can do a 23 min 5k.

On the other side of it you want to do a sub 17 min 5k for example and you're told you're delusional and haven't a hope, rather than give you advice on how to improve to reach your full potential. It's almost a "how dare you aim so low/high" attitude at times.

kit3

RonanP77 wrote: »

I'm all for advice and what I would see as constructive criticism, that's not what I'm talking about. It's being told you have no ambition if you aim for a 20 min 5k, or you're lazy for aiming for 55 min 1st 10k when you can do a 23 min 5k.

On the other side of it you want to do a sub 17 min 5k for example and you're told you're delusional and haven't a hope, rather than give you advice on how to improve to reach your full potential. It's almost a "how dare you aim so low/high" attitude at times.

I don't know the examples you are listing above but I would think that any such advice on a training log is tailored to that person's abilities eg if someone is considered capable of better than they are aiming for in view of their history/training then it's good to be pushed. Similarly, if you are aiming for a time that, clearly from your log, is considered too ambitious then surely it is better to have that pointed out to you & to aim within your capabilities rather than blow up ?

I suppose it's a question of perspective really & how you view yourself. I don't consider myself an experienced runner although I have 'completed' 13 half marathons & 4 full ones (& a very slow 50K ). I would absolutely welcome advice of the sort you've mentioned & be delighted to get it.

Dubgal72

Good thread. I was toying with the idea of starting a thread about how we *do criticism* on here. My take is that the internet can be very flat in tone and an abrupt response never comes across well.
I don't think I am a back-slapper but I think there's a time and place for suggestions. Very often I see someone doing something I suspect is not great for their training but don't comment a) cos I don't know that I have the experience to flag it correctly and/or b) I don't know how to say it constructively.


I'd love to see a stipulation for closing an account that you have to say publicly why you are closing your account

Clearlier

Dubgal72 wrote: »

I'd love to see a stipulation for closing an account that you have to say publicly why you are closing your account

While that's obviously impossible I did run an e-group once where I had set up an automated email to go out to unsubscribers with a few basic questions looking for feedback. Most of the responses where nice/innocuous but every once in a while I got something useful which caused me to rethink how I moderated the group.

My pet hate is exclusions - I really don't care whether you run 20 minute miles or 4 minute miles you're welcome as far as I'm concerned. If you're not interested in improving then I'm probably not going to engage but I certainly don't want to push you away.

RonanP77

Clearlier wrote:

My pet hate is exclusions - I really don't care whether you run 20 minute miles or 4 minute miles you're welcome as far as I'm concerned. If you're not interested in improving then I'm probably not going to engage but I certainly don't want to push you away.

I had almost forgotten that, it's not too long ago that I saw a regular say that this forum isn't meant for slow or casual runners, just for serious athletes.

I'm a beginner, I've never run further than 12k, faster than a 52min 10k or a 22min 5k. I'm looking to build on both pace and distance once I'm back in shape. It was said to another poster but aimed at the likes of me. Things like that certainly make people feel unwelcome.

I was told at college that the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. On here I'm almost afraid to ask anything at this stage. You're almost expected, by a small minority, to be an expert before you join here.

kit3

RonanP77 wrote: »

I had almost forgotten that, it's not too long ago that I saw a regular say that this forum isn't meant for slow or casual runners, just for serious athletes.

I'm a beginner, I've never run further than 12k, faster than a 52min 10k or a 22min 5k. I'm looking to build on both pace and distance once I'm back in shape. It was said to another poster but aimed at the likes of me. Things like that certainly make people feel unwelcome.

I was told at college that the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. On here I'm almost afraid to ask anything at this stage. You're almost expected, by a small minority, to be an expert before you join here.

I'm astonished to see this - I've been around here for over 5 years & that's certainly not the attitude of the forum or the majority of posters. If this was said by one poster then it should not be taken to be the opinion of the majority. In fairness, there are many regular posters & a lot of very serious runners on here who will give out the same advice & answer the same basic questions that arise again and again. Your statement above is in no way representative of this forum.

DocQismyJesus

Ronan can really see what you're saying about being realistic versus delusional. I honestly don't think anyone would ever call someone putting in work, progressing and targeting a time "delusional"

People get called delusional when they make statements like "I'm gonna run a 4 hr marathon off 15 miles a week" or I'm gonna break the over 50 5k world record off of zero race results that show any realistic chance".

Problem is as I see it people get annoyed when experienced runners point out possible issues with training/ target times - strops happen accounts get closed. Now we have a situation where a bunch of old/ knowledgable posters have either closed accounts/ been banned or don't post any more because the forum is not a great resource anymore and pretty much no craic. Just throwing ideas around about how to return this place to past glories

DocQismyJesus

RonanP77 wrote: »

I had almost forgotten that, it's not too long ago that I saw a regular say that this forum isn't meant for slow or casual runners, just for serious athletes.

I'm a beginner, I've never run further than 12k, faster than a 52min 10k or a 22min 5k. I'm looking to build on both pace and distance once I'm back in shape. It was said to another poster but aimed at the likes of me. Things like that certainly make people feel unwelcome.

I was told at college that the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. On here I'm almost afraid to ask anything at this stage. You're almost expected, by a small minority, to be an expert before you join here.

I'd be amazed if this is the case. IMO you have bags of potential. 22 min 5k off very limited training suggests it.

Amy experienced runner on here would recognise and help

Murph_D

Maybe a good idea in a discussion such as this to quote examples of such "abuse", or at least link to the posts in question? For instance I've never come close to a 20 min 5k but have never been called lazy, so I'm sceptical about claims that suggest such posts are in any way reflective of general attitudes here. It's easy to misinterpret, and some are more sensitive to robust advice/criticism than others.

Having said that, I think account closures are natural. As well as the experienced posters who move on (or reappear under a different guise)' there are hundreds of casuals who disappear after a short while too, without bothering to close out. It's a shame when someone you enjoy reading disappears, but it's the way of the Internet forum everywhere, certainly not confined to boards.ie A/R.

DocQismyJesus

FYI I just called an Irish Champion out for advising people motto eat for 5 days during a race - even the top people can get called out for silly statements

walshb

There's nothing wrong with being delusional every now and again, or people calling it as it is at times. If I got on here and said I am going to run a marathon in October based off my 5 k training plan I'd be disappointed to get encouraged!

rom

I have been on both sides of this.

A: Asks question
B: Responds to question
A: Does not take the advise
B: Gets annoyed for wasting their time
A: Creates another thread months later asking similar questions

If you want to improve at anything you need to have an open mind. If you are not good at running (tbh most of us are not including myself) you need to realize that advise from those who are better than you can help you. I have improved from a 4:27 marathon in 2011 to 2:54 in 2015 by not training but by training smart and listening to what people say and knowing that I know very little about the sport. Only about >10% of the people you give advise to actually listen to it. I train easier now that I ever did before. I don't feel constantly wrecked and I enjoy running a lot more. I was out running with a guy the other week that thought he was some expert because he can run sub 3. He is not going to improve as that mindset is a mental barrier to what he can achieve. There is always someone better than you but when you think you can't learn anymore then you are going to go backwards.

I do think that people generally get better at distance running later here like in their 30's because they realize the above that they are not invincible and other people are better at them and they can learn for them. However you have the east africans getting better earlier as they get knowledge first hand and don't have something like the internet and all its noise to give disinformation.

I see on other forums mainly US based that people list their PBs in their signature. Now this is not very Irish to do such a thing but it does give new posters an idea of the person that they are getting advise from. I don't think it would catch on here but its just a thought.

Was talking to a physio in London that had someone come into them that ran the full distance on the Wed before London to see how it felt.

statss

Why the need to close the account? Can't disgruntled people just stop posting?

Clearlier

Murph_D wrote: »

Maybe a good idea in a discussion such as this to quote examples of such "abuse", or at least link to the posts in question? For instance I've never come close to a 20 min 5k but have never been called lazy, so I'm sceptical about claims that suggest such posts are in any way reflective of general attitudes here. It's easy to misinterpret, and some are more sensitive to robust advice/criticism than others.

Sadly it does happen. Off the top of my head there have been threads where slow runners, pregnant women and women in general have all been told that they shouldn't really run/compete to the best of their ability. I've tried engaging and trying to show up the nonsense, ignoring in the hope that they'll go away and reporting posts and I haven't been satisfied with the end result on any occasion.

That said I agree that it's not a general attitude. The risk is that even one poster saying such things can put people off from joining/contributing to the forum. I just don't see how these comments are a positive/useful contribution.

On the criticism/calling people out thing I have no issues with that. There are undoubtedly times when it could be done more sensitively just as I'm sure that there are times when someone probably should be called out on something but isn't. I always enjoy the threads where someone comes on and says that they just ran x in x time and they're going to be an elite athlete. Most of the time they're deluded but I firmly believe that one day we'll come across someone who really does become an elite runner and in any case once the kerfuffle dissipates the advice is always to have a go and see what happens.

walshb

statss wrote: »

Why the need to close the account? Can't disgruntled people just stop posting?

Attention seeking for some!

ThisRegard

walshb wrote: »

Account closers are just quitters. How they ever finish tough races I'll never know.

By spending less time dealing with fools on de interweb and more time running !

The biggest problem I have with the forum, and I've raised it publicly and with the mods, is that when someone doesn't like a thread or people posting on that thread, they do their best to derail it and often get it closed when those originally involved were happy to carry on with their discussion. You know the type, people enter it to just post "Oh this thread is stupid", "Is this still going on". And there's plenty who do it.

People like this need a big smack with the The Don't be a Dick clause from the charter, or just grow up and ignore the thread and everyone will be happier.

downthemiddle

walshb wrote: »

Attention seeking for some!

Nobody better than yourself to judge that.

walshb

ThisRegard wrote: »

By spending less time dealing with fools on de interweb and more time running !

Why didn't I think of that?:)

walshb

downthemiddle wrote: »

Nobody better than yourself to judge that.

I have yet to close or re-reg. Still going strong!

BTW, you'll probably get a dozen thanks for that post......wait for it!

ThisRegard

ThisRegard wrote: »

is that when someone doesn't like a thread or people posting on that thread, they do their best to derail it .......

And as if by magic.....

downthemiddle wrote: »

Nobody better than yourself to judge that.

libelula

walshb wrote: »

I have yet to close or re-reg. Still going strong!

BTW, you'll probably get a dozen thanks for that post......wait for it!

You're a big part of the problem around here. Your attitude in general on some threads I've seen is fairly atrocious tbh.

davedanon

Clearlier wrote: »

Sadly it does happen. Off the top of my head there have been threads where slow runners, pregnant women and women in general have all been told that they shouldn't really run/compete to the best of their ability. I've tried engaging and trying to show up the nonsense, ignoring in the hope that they'll go away and reporting posts and I haven't been satisfied with the end result on any occasion.

That said I agree that it's not a general attitude. The risk is that even one poster saying such things can put people off from joining/contributing to the forum. I just don't see how these comments are a positive/useful contribution.

On the criticism/calling people out thing I have no issues with that. There are undoubtedly times when it could be done more sensitively just as I'm sure that there are times when someone probably should be called out on something but isn't. I always enjoy the threads where someone comes on and says that they just ran x in x time and they're going to be an elite athlete. Most of the time they're deluded but I firmly believe that one day we'll come across someone who really does become an elite runner and in any case once the kerfuffle dissipates the advice is always to have a go and see what happens.

At last! Someone who knows how to spell 'advice'.


(good post too though)

davedanon

libelula wrote: »

You're a big part of the problem around here. Your attitude in general on some threads I've seen is fairly atrocious tbh.

Popcorn, anyone?

kit3

davedanon wrote: »

At last! Someone who knows how to spell 'advice'.


(good post too though)

Had me going back to check my posts there for a minute

libelula

davedanon wrote: »

Popcorn, anyone?

Popcorn? For athletes?! And you expect to be able to run after that?

:pac:

Firedance

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Good thread. I was toying with the idea of starting a thread about how we *do criticism* on here. My take is that the internet can be very flat in tone and an abrupt response never comes across well.
I don't think I am a back-slapper but I think there's a time and place for suggestions. Very often I see someone doing something I suspect is not great for their training but don't comment a) cos I don't know that I have the experience to flag it correctly and/or b) I don't know how to say it constructively.
I'd love to see a stipulation for closing an account that you have to say publicly why you are closing your account

if you ever see anything on my log please DO say something! you definitely have the experience. the more feedback from people who run well & train smart the better imo.

I think there are lots of experienced runners here who offer great advice, I think though that sometimes a one line / sharp comment on someone's log without any explanations or reasons given can look very like 'you're an idiot' when reading it. I'd love to see a bit more of the why a poster thinks that person is making a mistake and what qualifies that poster to comment. It might take the sting out of the criticism for e.g. if a poster says 'I made that mistake' or 'here's what might work better for you'. Just my tuppence worth..

Clearlier

davedanon wrote: »

At last! Someone who knows how to spell 'advice'.


(good post too though)

Typos bug me enormously but I've made enough of them to realise that sometimes the fingers just don't type what my consciousness instructs it to. The number of times that I've unthinkingly typed out the wrong version of you/you're and there/they're/their precludes me from ever complaining about other people's typos!

walshb

libelula wrote: »

You're a big part of the problem around here. Your attitude in general on some threads I've seen is fairly atrocious tbh.

You wouldn't happen to be a pregnant female over 35 and struggling to break 40 mins for 5 k?

DocQismyJesus

A lot of people get banned as well. Example: my account is a tribut to the great Dr Quirkey who got railroaded out of here in an organised wolf pack campaign. Sad but true

tunney

libelula wrote: »

Popcorn? For athletes?! And you expect to be able to run after that?

:pac:

Sorry you must have posted in the wrong forum. This is the AR board.

tunney

kit3 wrote: »

I think there's a big difference between going on the attack and giving advice/criticism based on experience. I've been around here for a few years now & have toyed with the idea of starting a log for a long time. Took the plunge recently for two reasons - to keep track of the times that I don't run & the reasons for this (hopefully not too many but see gaps in my paper log that would have seemed valid at the time but have no idea now why training was sparse) and the other reason was to attract that type of advice/criticism which I think would be invaluable. Unfortunately, there is a culture now whereby anything that's not saying 'well done' and 'sure you did your best' is seen as a negative and an attack. There doesn't seem to be any room in some logs for 'you could have done better if you had done x'. That, to me, is the real value of Boards & we're lucky that there are so many experienced & knowledgeable runners here that are willing to bother.

I haven't closed my account but I rarely post here because of the back slapping and reach arounds.

Sometimes a time/race/performance is sh1t. Calling it anything other than that is doing a disservice.

tHE vAGGABOND

I used to post here too much, and now I post here once in a blue moon as I just don't enjoy it anymore, with any worthwhile thread descending into petty fights and blatant trolling [as this one seems to have been dragged into too]. But that's just me.

But I really don't see the point in closing account other than to want to draw attention to yourself. Maybe some folks have/had the attitude that "...that place will be dead without me, cos Im amazing..". I did not know who was gone [and dont really care tbh], just checked the Pacer forum and got a better idea

But it's the interweb, folks will come and go. I have been on boards since before some folks posting here were born, and people always come and go. Life changes and folks change as they get older and interests move on. I would not sweat about it tbh - you folks post and swap advice, if someone does not want to join in, so be it.

dublin runner

Yeah, this is the one thing that really annoys me. People choose to have an online public log. If cannot handle criticism (both positive and negative) then maybe it isn't for you.


*by the way I trained a young lady to a 10k PB whilst 6 months pregnant. Not doable for all but in a lot of cases it is a very safe activity (with medical clearance).

RonanP77

tunney wrote:

Sometimes a time/race/performance is sh1t. Calling it anything other than that is doing a disservice.

Say for example somebody is only running 4 weeks, they've done their first 5k and finished in 25 mins. I'd see that as a good result for them. If I ran that time I'd see it as poor. For some of the really experienced runners it'd be terrible.

You have to see it as a milestone for them on the road to much better times.

kit3

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

I used to post here too much, and now I post here once in a blue moon as I just don't enjoy it anymore, with any worthwhile thread descending into petty fights and blatant trolling B]as this one seems to have been dragged into too[/B. But that's just me.

While this has happened in plenty to threads, I would have to disagree with you about this one - think it's just people voicing their opinions in general so far (barring the odd comment)

kit3

RonanP77 wrote: »

Say for example somebody is only running 4 weeks, they've done their first 5k and finished in 25 mins. I'd see that as a good result for them. If I ran that time I'd see it as poor. For some of the really experienced runners it'd be terrible.

You have to see it as a milestone for them on the road to much better times.

I reckon if someone came on here & said that they were only running 4 weeks & did 5k in 25 minutes they would be encouraged to keep running & to train in a structured way. Time isn't the factor in people giving advice/encouragement. Sometimes you need to really look at what's being said & the context.

DocQismyJesus

kit3 wrote: »

While this has happened in plenty to threads, I would have to disagree with you about this one - think it's just people voicing their opinions in general so far (barring the odd comment)

A good few of the "trolls" having been trying to defend this place from becoming #RSP for the last year

kit3

DocQismyJesus wrote: »

A good few of the "trolls" having been trying to defend this place from becoming #RSP for the last year

I think the term 'troll' is the issue - definitely a matter of opinion - think the word is used by some to describe someone who doesn't agree with them

(probably should clarify, was agreeing that threads had been derailed/gone off topic - not necessarily that I would call those posters trolls ! )

Murph_D

RonanP77 wrote: »

Say for example somebody is only running 4 weeks, they've done their first 5k and finished in 25 mins. I'd see that as a good result for them. If I ran that time I'd see it as poor. For some of the really experienced runners it'd be terrible.

You have to see it as a milestone for them on the road to much better times.

Ronan, can you give me an example of the kind of post you're referring to, that's not the work of one or two of the more obvious trolls?

RonanP77

Murph_D wrote:

Ronan, can you give me an example of the kind of post you're referring to, that's not the work of one or two of the more obvious trolls?

If I give examples concerning myself it'll just start off a whole argument again with a certain person that hasn't commented on this thread yet. After being hassled by them on numerous threads for 6 months it finally seems to have stopped so there's no way I'm kicking it off again.

DocQismyJesus

RonanP77 wrote: »

If I give examples concerning myself it'll just start off a whole argument again with a certain person that hasn't commented on this thread yet. After being hassled by them on numerous threads for 6 months it finally seems to have stopped so there's no way I'm kicking it off again.

I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about and IMO there is a big difference between two people rubbing each other the wrong way and trolling.