Dublin Bus services 15 years ago

thomasj

Using the way back machine, I found the Dublin bus website from 15 years ago and most timetables are still intact. Just thought it would be interesting to draw a comparison as to whether the bus service has worsened since then or that it was simply too much and needed to be reduced to an smaller network .

http://web.archive.org/web/19991219145635/http://www.dublinbus.ie/html/Routes26-50.html

Also note that at this time-

- 83, 120, 121, 122, 123, 150, 155, 201, 202, 237, 238, 239 were all minibus operated

- 39, 40, 78a were single deck operated (some 25a were too)

At this time the 150 operated as a minibus service on the temple bar side of fleet street. Mad to think that not long before 78s, 51s, 79s etc all ran from there.

Icepick

DB needs a complete overhaul, including routes, stops and what buses it uses.
They have so much intelligence from the Leap cards that could easily help them improve the network significantly, yet are doing nothing. Journey times cannot even compete with bicycles in a lot of cases.
Too busy protesting...

StreetLight

Icepick wrote: »

DB needs a complete overhaul, including routes, stops and what buses it uses.
They have so much intelligence from the Leap cards that could easily help them improve the network significantly, yet are doing nothing. Journey times cannot even compete with bicycles in a lot of cases.
Too busy protesting...

So protesting bus drivers are now responsible for overhauling DB, including routes, stops and what buses it uses? As well as using Leap cards to improve the network...

My word, with such responsibilities, they should go on strike for better pay.

Slippin Jimmy

Icepick wrote: »

DB needs a complete overhaul, including routes, stops and what buses it uses.
They have so much intelligence from the Leap cards that could easily help them improve the network significantly, yet are doing nothing. Journey times cannot even compete with bicycles in a lot of cases.
Too busy protesting...

And the many people that don't use leapcard? The nerve of them protesting!

munchkin_utd

I remember the time when the first 747 airport bus on a Sunday from the City only left at 7am way too late for a few dozen first departures of the morning.

Hang on.... That's still the case.
Crazy stuff.

Victor

Icepick wrote: »

Too busy protesting...

StreetLight wrote: »

So protesting bus drivers are now responsible for overhauling DB, including routes, stops and what buses it uses? As well as using Leap cards to improve the network...

My word, with such responsibilities, they should go on strike for better pay.

On-topic please.

Moderator

dfx-

Nightlinks operated by letter...

thomasj

dfx- wrote: »

Nightlinks operated by letter...

And operated on a Thursday night too? :eek:

Northbound/westbound also ran from Stephens green? I don't remember that?

Greenmachine

Remember the City Imps alright. I used to take them going to crumlin hospital as a kid. I had no idea about the site linked in OP.

thomasj

I might as well add, here's the dart and commuter timetables from April 2004. (The downloads work)

http://web.archive.org/web/20040428033057/http://www.irishrail.ie/dart/your_journey/printed_timetables.asp

And the intercity and commuter timetables from 2002 (the downloads from the links on the dart website don't work

http://web.archive.org/web/20021015015459/http://www.irishrail.ie/your_journey/printed_timetables.asp

n97 mini

thomasj wrote: »

And operated on a Thursday night too? :eek:

Northbound/westbound also ran from Stephens green? I don't remember that?

Nitelinks operated 6 nights a week at one stage, though Mon-Thurs usually had a skeleton service that was different to the other nights. E.g. on Monday night you went to Leixlip via Celbridge and Maynooth!

Icepick

Victor wrote: »

On-topic please.

Moderator

The public service culture of DB workers is one of the main reasons why DB is so terrible and is improving at snail's pace.

jackofalltrades

Greenmachine wrote: »

Remember the City Imps alright.

Some things are just too hard to forget.

I remember the non-existant leg room and how the seat in front of you used to bang of your knees when the bus idled.
That and you just couldn't get away from the drunks/junkies while you were packed in like sardines.
Fair play to the person that decided to get rid of them.

monument

Icepick wrote: »

The public service culture of DB workers is one of the main reasons why DB is so terrible and is improving at snail's pace.

Infracted your post for replying to a warning from a moderator. Please don't reply to moderation in-thread again -- thank you.

-- moderator

Mahogany

http://www.dublinbus.ie/human-resources/

I wouldn't mind being on that pay..

cdebru

Mahogany wrote: »

http://www.dublinbus.ie/human-resources/

I wouldn't mind being on that pay..

What's stopping you ?

n97 mini

Why were Imps done away with?

I see double deckers doing the 239 lumbering along the narrow back roads between Lucan and Clonsilla virtually empty, amazed at how unsuitable they are.

Dravokivich

Maintenance costs I think. Recall seeing it mentioned here a few times. Only a few of the routes these days are really low volume and there's no point getting'em in while unifying accessibility of the fleet overall.

Mahogany

cdebru wrote: »

What's stopping you ?

Career Satisfaction.

Also I'm too nice

Duiske

Around then was the only time I ever used DB, for a few months in 2000 from Belgard into town. Think the fare at the time was £1.15 (little over €1.30).

Victor

Duiske wrote: »

Think the fare at the time was £1.15 (little over €1.30).

IR£1.15 = €1.46

Victor

n97 mini wrote: »

Why were Imps done away with?

Capacity, operational flexibility, accessibility, maintenance simplicity, the peace process and a few other reasons.

Capacity - the government capped the number of buses, but not the number of seats.

Operational flexibility - any bus can be used pretty much anywhere, without having to think about capacity.

Accessibility - the Imps were a mid-height floor design, making access poor

Maintenance simplicity - fewer engine and chassis designs means fewer parts to keep and lower skill demand on the engineering departments.

Peace Process - Ballymena is doing trade with the Republic.

monument

Mahogany wrote: »

http://www.dublinbus.ie/human-resources/

I wouldn't mind being on that pay..

Let's stay on topic.

-- Moderator

n97 mini

Victor wrote: »

Capacity, operational flexibility, accessibility, maintenance simplicity, the peace process and a few other reasons.

Capacity - the government capped the number of buses, but not the number of seats.

Operational flexibility - any bus can be used pretty much anywhere, without having to think about capacity.

Accessibility - the Imps were a mid-height floor design, making access poor

Maintenance simplicity - fewer engine and chassis designs means fewer parts to keep and lower skill demand on the engineering departments.

Peace Process - Ballymena is doing trade with the Republic.

So if these routes are outsourced, e.g. the 239, will the new operator have any say in what bus type is used? There really is no need for a double decker on that route, and in fact I'd say it's a bit of a liability.

Irish Halo

I was a student back then so used Dublin Bus to get around especially living north of Swords and working in the airport part time, the 33 service was a pain.

n97 mini wrote: »

Nitelinks operated 6 nights a week at one stage, though Mon-Thurs usually had a skeleton service that was different to the other nights.

I'd forgotten there was no Nitelink beyond Swords at the start but IIRC even the 33n had a 6 day service when it eventually started (just checked Jan 2001, 6 day service).

Having looked the 33 timetable has improved a good bit, 22 buses a day from town in 2000 and 29 now (and that doesn't include the 33x services). There are also now three buses that start before the first bus out of town in 2000 (I think 06:30 was the first bus up to at least early 2004 as well).

thomasj

Yep nitelink in its glory days!

http://web.archive.org/web/20070609220608/http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/nitelink.asp

L1011

Thursday, at the very least, Nitelink services need to be urgently looked at again in light of the growth in the economy and also in population.

I'm amazed at the 15 year growth in Maynooth services - about 51 inbound to 74, not counting 66/67X

beauf

thomasj wrote: »

U...
- 39, 40, 78a were single deck operated (some 25a were too)...

What does single deck operated mean? If it means single deck buses, I don't remember there ever been single deck buses on the 39 route.

In terms of service from D.15 to city center, or Co.Dublin as it was originally. I don't think its really changed that much at all. Journey times are slightly better now. Biggest difference is you can always get on, and usually a seat. Routes are longer now, obviously.

There was a time back when it was impossible to get even on the bus at peak, if you didn't get it from the terminus or very close to it. In town you had to queue and often wouldn't be able to get on the first bus that pulled up. I seem to remember a lot of pushing and the drivers used to go mental if someone opened the middle doors. (remember middle doors?) I also remember having to walk past a few stops till you got to one where the bus would have space on it. Breakdowns, fires were a lot more common. You'd have to wait for the next bus, or a bus from the garage.

LXFlyer

beauf wrote: »

What does single deck operated mean? If it means single deck buses, I don't remember there ever been single deck buses on the 39 route.

In terms of service from D.15 to city center, or Co.Dublin as it was originally. I don't think its really changed that much at all. Journey times are slightly better now. Biggest difference is you can always get on, and usually a seat. Routes are longer now, obviously.

There was a time back when it was impossible to get even on the bus at peak, if you didn't get it from the terminus or very close to it. In town you had to queue and often wouldn't be able to get on the first bus that pulled up. I seem to remember a lot of pushing and the drivers used to go mental if someone opened the middle doors. (remember middle doors?) I also remember having to walk past a few stops till you got to one where the bus would have space on it. Breakdowns, fires were a lot more common. You'd have to wait for the next bus, or a bus from the garage.

I'm afraid that you are either showing your age or you have a rather short memory.

When Bob Montgomery introduced the CitySwift and CityImp concepts to Dublin Bus in the mid-1990s, they were predicated on being high frequency services operated by large capacity single deck buses and minibuses respectively.

The initial CitySwift route was the 39, operated by P Class single decks, shown in this photo: https://www.flickr.com/photos/shamrock_105/6097215919/.

Route 39 was followed by routes 40 and 78a in being fully single deck operated.

However, after Bob Montgomery's departure the focus switched back to purchasing double decks.

beauf

I remember getting them being a rare occurrence. Though I wasn't a big users of buses in the 90's probably I never noticed. I always thought single deckers were mainly used on long rural routes that went out to the sticks. I remember seeing them in places like Limerick etc.

Googling, I found out that (who the heck Montgomery is) and he was only in Dublin Bus 1991~1994. How long did these single deckers last on the route? From info on the web seems to 94~2003, But at the same time I find pictures of new double buses on the 39 route. Where these taken off the route?

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dublinbus.cc/RH4%252520DH%252520SML.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dublinbus.cc/rhs.htm&h=549&w=800&tbnid=LBQfKmbeZvYyFM:&zoom=1&docid=g5uOU30_o5fSYM&ei=vBJPVb_KF4qM7QbblYCQCA&tbm=isch&ved=0CEYQMyggMCA

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dublinbus.cc/RH1%2525201990%252520DH%252520SML.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dublinbus.cc/rhs.htm&h=541&w=800&tbnid=Xf_tL92PzZihxM:&zoom=1&docid=g5uOU30_o5fSYM&ei=vBJPVb_KF4qM7QbblYCQCA&tbm=isch&ved=0CCsQMygNMA0

Including those in City Swift livery
http://www.cityswifty.com/Cityswift.html

In 1995, new Olympians were delivered in the Cityswift livery from RA 216 upwards including........
RA 216- 219 for route 39 at Phibsboro

(double deckers I assume)

Also found that the drivers went on strike about the introduction on the 39. I have no memory of that either.

fxotoole

66 used to go all the way out to Kilcock 2 or 3 times a day. The 66n used to go to Maynooth, but now only goes as far as Leixlip. Also the 66n and 67n services used to be a lot more frequent. Now I think they only run at 00.00, 02.00, and 04.00.

LXFlyer

beauf wrote: »

I remember getting them being a rare occurrence. Though I wasn't a big users of buses in the 90's probably I never noticed. I always thought single deckers were mainly used on long rural routes that went out to the sticks. I remember seeing them in places like Limerick etc.

Googling, I found out that (who the heck Montgomery is) and he was only in Dublin Bus 1991~1994. How long did these single deckers last on the route? From info on the web seems to 94~2003, But at the same time I find pictures of new double buses on the 39 route. Where these taken off the route?

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dublinbus.cc/RH4%252520DH%252520SML.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dublinbus.cc/rhs.htm&h=549&w=800&tbnid=LBQfKmbeZvYyFM:&zoom=1&docid=g5uOU30_o5fSYM&ei=vBJPVb_KF4qM7QbblYCQCA&tbm=isch&ved=0CEYQMyggMCA

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dublinbus.cc/RH1%2525201990%252520DH%252520SML.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dublinbus.cc/rhs.htm&h=541&w=800&tbnid=Xf_tL92PzZihxM:&zoom=1&docid=g5uOU30_o5fSYM&ei=vBJPVb_KF4qM7QbblYCQCA&tbm=isch&ved=0CCsQMygNMA0

Including those in City Swift livery
http://www.cityswifty.com/Cityswift.html



(double deckers I assume)

Also found that the drivers went on strike about the introduction on the 39. I have no memory of that either.

I can only say that you must have a rather short memory - this was big news at the time.

Again, Bob Montgomery was the Dublin Bus MD who introduced the CitySwift and CityImp concepts to Dublin Bus in 1993 in the face of huge opposition from the trade unions. That opposition eventually contributed to his dismissal from the job (which he contested and settled).

When CitySwift was launched in 1993, the inaugural route was the 39, and the double deck buses on that route were replaced by the single deck buses that operated at a higher frequency (every 6 minutes). The all single deck service pattern continued until 1995 when some double decks were re-introduced on the route, and these gradually increased, with the single decks being switched to other routes.

But how you have the notion that there were no single deck buses in the city is beyond me.

Aside from the 39, 40 and 78a that were operated by either P Class , AD Class, or VA class, there were numerous routes that were traditionally operated by KC Class buses in the city.

The following routes were primarily KC class operated for many years:
17, 17a, 27/a, 36/a/b, 44b, 46, 47/b, 52, 53/a, 59, 63, 70, 76, 80, 85, 88, 90, 101, 102, 103, 104, 111, 113, 114.

Sure most of them were lower frequency, but there was always a good number of single deck buses in the CIE Dublin City Services/Dublin Bus fleet.

It is only in recent years that they have moved to almost an all double deck fleet - there are still 3 WV Class single decks in Donnybrook.

beauf

I had switched to a car in the 90's as commuting cross city on a bus or train was insanely long winded. So buses are of no interest unless you are using them.

Single deckers seem to have lasted a relatively short on the 39. I used to also get the 46 and 70 but obviously not during this period as I only remember them as double deckers aswell.

thomasj wrote: »

... bus service has worsened since then or that it was simply too much and needed to be reduced to an smaller network..

I guess it depends on your route. For me its improved. But always its been the my least favourite mode of transport. I'll even use the train, to avoid the bus, even if it makes my door to door longer.

That's probably my bus routes over the years have all been all long ones. If it was a short rapid service I might have liked it more.

crushproof

thomasj wrote: »

Yep nitelink in its glory days!

http://web.archive.org/web/20070609220608/http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/nitelink.asp

The scaling back of the Nitelink is simply shocking. I'm baffled that late night bars and clubs in the city never kicked up much of a fuss over this.
Many, many late nights in town during the week back then...would be an extremely expensive night out now if you were planning on heading home alone.
It's extremely, extremely frustrating that is not even at least a skeletal night bus service in Dublin. Comparable bus reliant cities in the UK (Edinburgh, Nottingham, Oxford) have late night buses and in Edinburgh's case several are 24/7.

beauf

Last time I was in Dublin City centre at night there a worse traffic jams at 1am than I've seen at 6pm. Mainly taxi's. If thats normal, I don't think bars and clubs are suffering.

cdebru

crushproof wrote: »

The scaling back of the Nitelink is simply shocking. I'm baffled that late night bars and clubs in the city never kicked up much of a fuss over this.
Many, many late nights in town during the week back then...would be an extremely expensive night out now if you were planning on heading home alone.
It's extremely, extremely frustrating that is not even at least a skeletal night bus service in Dublin. Comparable bus reliant cities in the UK (Edinburgh, Nottingham, Oxford) have late night buses and in Edinburgh's case several are 24/7.

Nitelinks are operated on a purely commercial basis before taxi deregulation there was big enough demand to sustain a nitelink service, but now with 20,000 plus taxis knocking around there isn't demand so as with any commercial service it stopped, it didn't mean less people went out it is just they found a different way to get home.