Is this possible?

biffo2014

Is this possible.

I am 6'5, 91KG, 16% BF.
I play midfield in GAA and I can handle myself to an extent - I would like to be stronger. My fitness levels are good and im in the top 3 fastest on the team. I also play hurling once a week but as we all play football we dont do much fitness just ball skills

I train Tuesday, Wednesday (Hurling), Friday & Either a game the weekend or Training Sunday Morning. I work an office job so I can ''rest'' on work days.

Basically I want to start gaining more muscle and size ASAP while also lowering my BF (really want those abs) but as I train 3/4 nights a week I don't want to overdo it. I was planning on doing 30-45mins of weight training of heavy compound lifts before training on Tuesdays and Fridays.

So here's my plan - feedback would be welcomed

Mon- Rest
Tue - 6.30pm - Weight Training
8.00pm - Football training
Wednesday - Hurling skills
Thursday - Rest
Friday - 6.30pm - Weight Training
8.00pm - Football training
Sat - Rest
Sun - Match or football training

Or can do this either:
Thurs - Weight Training
Friday - Football Training
Sat - REST.

Any feedback would be perfect. Thanks

Alf Veedersane

Which is the primary goal: more size or strength?

biffo2014

Strength first anyway, wouldn't mind size but would take strength first anyday!

Zillah

It's very difficult to drop body fat and gain muscle at the same time, and unless you're obese, you'll probably not do either very well. Abs require very low body fat, which requires quite a lot of calorie restriction, which means you'll find it very hard to get stronger at the same time.

You should decide which is more important in the short term and focus on that. I recommend getting stronger first, because the more muscle you have the easier you'll find it to get your body fat down later.

Alf Veedersane

They're not mutually exclusive, per se, but just in terms of what way you'd be training.

Weight training before football training is going to affect your performance in football. So I would be more inclined to do it on a 'rest' day. But you're hampering your recovery between GAA sessions.

And if you can only fit in one session a week, you're not going to be able to achieve a huge amount.

It's probably better to do it in the off season and then just maintain during the season.

biffo2014

Thanks for the advice lads. Would say one night a week with good quality lifting be of any benefit? Any advantage, even minimal, could be the difference between out jumping an opponent or overturning a guy running through. Would core work help either?

Alf Veedersane

biffo2014 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice lads. Would say one night a week with good quality lifting be of any benefit? Any advantage, even minimal, could be the difference between out jumping an opponent or overturning a guy running through. Would core work help either?

In theory, it might. But the benefits on weight training might be offset by the reduction in recovery.

biffo2014

Thanks for that. What if I did a good workout once a week and adjust it so I have plenty of rest the next day - would that benefit me at all?

Really tired of feeling like I'm not as strong as opponents.

biffo2014

Think my diet is letting me down

Darrenon91

Im 6'6 and also play midfield. I was 96kg when I felt the same way about my strength. Unfortunately you might have to sacrifice the abs. Well at least I did and that doesnt mean I got fat or anything. I kept fitness. Im now 105kg and defo feel stronger on the pitch while I havent lost pace or mobility. I gained strength and size and now I can look to develop the abs. In short I would recommend focusing on one goal at a time.

biffo2014

Darrenon91 wrote: »

Im 6'6 and also play midfield. I was 96kg when I felt the same way about my strength. Unfortunately you might have to sacrifice the abs. Well at least I did and that doesnt mean I got fat or anything. I kept fitness. Im now 105kg and defo feel stronger on the pitch while I havent lost pace or mobility. I gained strength and size and now I can look to develop the abs. In short I would recommend focusing on one goal at a time.

How did you go about gaining size and strength?

Darrenon91

I was eating a lot like over 3700 calories and used myfitness pal app to track it. I did do this in the off season however so maybe dont go to the extreme I did as I assume your coming up to champo. And I focused on the main compounds lifts. Its the most common advise on here. Squats deadlifts and bench + pull ups and overhead press. 5 sets of 5 and increase weight each week. I was doing 3 gym sessions a week and 2 cardio.

What stuff you doing in the gym at the moment?

blatantrereg

Most people find it hard to gain strength and lose weight at the same time and often alternate between gaining - where they build muscle and put on some fat, and cutting - where they lose fat and a little muscle.

I wouldn't be too bothered about losing fat if you're 91kg at 6'5, and you're already fast. Abs are cosmetic; they don't translate into optimised sporting ability.

My personal experience is that it is easier to gain strength without adding fat than it is to lose fat without losing strength. Therefore I would be inclined to focus on building strength consistently, without looking to build huge size etc. This is likely to be the most effective from improving your ability in playing sport too I think. You'll probably shed fat gradually even without focusing on it anyway with that level of activity if your diet is okay.

Transform

biffo2014 wrote: »

Think my diet is letting me down

how many calories are you currently consuming per day? Track it asap and get back

biffo2014

Transform wrote: »

how many calories are you currently consuming per day? Track it asap and get back

Downloaded the app on my phone to track my calories so I'll start today.

My diet was kind of all over the place up till a month ago due to travelling on the road and been in different work locations at the time. Now that I am in a settled work location I was able to get control of it to an extent the past few weeks. My diet for the last few weeks would be:

6.30am - Pint of water.

10.00am - Smoothie with Coconut milk, Raspberries. Blueberries. Strawberries, Grapes, A banana, flax seed & a shot of wheatgrass.

1.00pm - Grilled steak/chicken with veg & a yogurt

6.00pm - 2 Slices of brown bread with peanut butter (if training)

9.00pm - Snack of 4 scrambled eggs/Brown bread with salami and goats cheese/Baked potato - Something along those lines.

I would drink minimum 4 litres of water a day bumping up to near 6 on training/match days.

I also take 10g creatine every night around 9.00 pm. I do like to have a bar of chocolate now and again - wouldn't be every day though.

ford2600

OP I'd let others help with diet and I'll leave a little blunt advice.

Get stronger and more powerful. Work on mobility also. @transform's website has some really good videos on that.

Forget about abs and looking strong; do you to make an impression on the field or complements about how fit you look?

A big strong mobile guy is worth his weight in gold. Make your size count, instill fear in lads.

Don't forget ball skills though, Aidan O'Shea is fantastic because he's able to solo, kick etc while being continuously fouled.

CM24

You can do upper body weights before GAA training and it won't really affect you at all. Just don't do ridiculously high volume or lift heavier than you can handle. Lower body weights are another story though. Heavy squats and deads take the legs quite a while to recover from and I often found myself being left flat footed on the pitch when I'd done them recently. Maybe just do them for a couple of sets each, once a week, as far away from match day as possible.

Transform

OP all of that means fu*k all because you havent calc what you need to take in for increasing muscle

At your current height, weight and activity and with a 10% increase in TDEE for bulk i would calc about 3,400-3,500cals per day, based on what you posted im going to guess you're no where near that - eat more, get more mobile and get stronger

Darrenon91

I agree with Transform your not eating enough at the moment. There prob should never be a five hour gap between meals. What your eating looks good there just isnt enough of it. You need around 3500 calories. More on training days.

biffo2014

Thanks for the input everybody. So basically if I eat what I'm eating, but eat more of it to make up 3,300-3,500 Calories - what sort of training can I do then .i.e as my original post said can I train weights before GAA Training?

glasagusban

Darrenon91 wrote: »

I agree with Transform your not eating enough at the moment. There prob should never be a five hour gap between meals. What your eating looks good there just isnt enough of it. You need around 3500 calories. More on training days.

Could you(anyone) give me a run down on what 3-3500 calories a day looks like in meals? I eat quite a lot, I think, and struggle to put on any weight.

Darrenon91

This is my typical 3600 - 700 a day. Could be more.

Breakfast 8am: 80-100g Porridge with full fat milk, scoop of protein, honey flaxseed and blueberries. 3 eggs scrambled.

11am: bowl of weetabix with full fat milk with diced fruit (apple/bannana) and honey not great but all I can do in work.

1pm: chicken veg and pasta/potatoes. Maybe samlon or beef as meat.

3.30pm: snacks almonds and fruit plus glass of milk up to half five.

GYM - 5-45

Post gym protein shake with full fat milk.

7.30pm tin of tuna + slice of toast.

8.30pm chicken/steak + sweet potatoes and veg.

Snack before bed: Apple with peanut butter. (lovely)

MagicMarker

Darrenon91 wrote: »

This is my typical 3600 - 700 a day. Could be more.

Breakfast 8am: 80-100g Porridge with full fat milk, scoop of protein, honey flaxseed and blueberries. 3 eggs scrambled.

11am: bowl of weetabix with full fat milk with diced fruit (apple/bannana) and honey not great but all I can do in work.

1pm: chicken veg and pasta/potatoes. Maybe samlon or beef as meat.

3.30pm: snacks almonds and fruit plus glass of milk up to half five.

GYM - 5-45

Post gym protein shake with full fat milk.

7.30pm tin of tuna + slice of toast.

8.30pm chicken/steak + sweet potatoes and veg.

Snack before bed: Apple with peanut butter. (lovely)

Ugh, I feel sick just reading it.

Darrenon91

haha its not that bad. I train 5 days a week (3 gym - 2 field) so I need it. Plus I am trying to maintain at 105kg so wont be the same for others.

glasagusban

Darrenon91 wrote: »

This is my typical 3600 - 700 a day. Could be more.

Breakfast 8am: 80-100g Porridge with full fat milk, scoop of protein, honey flaxseed and blueberries. 3 eggs scrambled.

11am: bowl of weetabix with full fat milk with diced fruit (apple/bannana) and honey not great but all I can do in work.

1pm: chicken veg and pasta/potatoes. Maybe samlon or beef as meat.

3.30pm: snacks almonds and fruit plus glass of milk up to half five.

GYM - 5-45

Post gym protein shake with full fat milk.

7.30pm tin of tuna + slice of toast.

8.30pm chicken/steak + sweet potatoes and veg.

Snack before bed: Apple with peanut butter. (lovely)

Cheers. I'm a bit lower on intake than that but not far off. 5'9" and 74kg and it's the heaviest I've been.

Breakfast: porridge, one mug oats two of milk, teaspoon coconut oil, with Greek yogurt nuts and honey. Smoothie of fruit veg seeds and water. Tea.

Fruit snack. Nuts. Coffee.

Salad of spinach, quinoa, beetroot, an avocado, pepper, tomato, feta, chicken breast, pesto.

Coffee. Banana and or homemade flapjack, peanut butter.

Protein shake post gym.

Dinner, something large with one third veg protein and carbs.

Usually another protein shake with cocoa peanut butter and milk maybe an egg before bed (also delicious).

Darrenon91

Ya looks like a good diet. If your struggling to put on weight it maybe portion sizes. Whats your gym sessions like? do you do lots of cardio. You should be putting on weight at 74kg. have ya tried counting the calories?

glasagusban

Darrenon91 wrote: »

Ya looks like a good diet. If your struggling to put on weight it maybe portion sizes. Whats your gym sessions like? do you do lots of cardio. You should be putting on weight at 74kg. have ya tried counting the calories?

I downloaded the my fitness pal app. Haven't gotten around to putting a full day into it yet, takes a lot of time and hard to measure quantities. Must give it another go. My portion sizes are large -it attracts comment.

Current exercise regime is weights three day body part split, main effort put into 5x5 of the big compound lifts, a day tag rugby, a day plyos and core. Maybe an extra jog.

Darrenon91

Ya my fitness pal can be a pain at the start but once ya put everything in once it becomes very very handy, as long as your diet doesn't change every week. quantities of meat can be found on packages obviously and with veg and pasta I use cups. I still use it every day. There should be no reason that the weight isnt going on other than your not eating enough or your burning a large amount of calories during training.

glasagusban

Darrenon91 wrote: »

Ya my fitness pal can be a pain at the start but once ya put everything in once it becomes very very handy, as long as your diet doesn't change every week. quantities of meat can be found on packages obviously and with veg and pasta I use cups. I still use it every day. There should be no reason that the weight isnt going on other than your not eating enough or your burning a large amount of calories during training.

Cheers for the input.

I'll give the app another go. Diet is fairly consistent, weight barely creeping up over a long period of time. I suppose if I used the app consistently for a week it should show up where or how I could squeeze a bit more in.

Alf Veedersane

glasagusban wrote: »

Cheers for the input.

I'll give the app another go. Diet is fairly consistent, weight barely creeping up over a long period of time. I suppose if I used the app consistently for a week it should show up where or how I could squeeze a bit more in.

The work is done at the start. After a week or so, you'll have a better understanding of what is in what you're eating and you'll be able to judge quantities better by eye.

Transform

glasagusban wrote: »

I downloaded the my fitness pal app. Haven't gotten around to putting a full day into it yet, takes a lot of time and hard to measure quantities. Must give it another go. My portion sizes are large -it attracts comment.

Current exercise regime is weights three day body part split, main effort put into 5x5 of the big compound lifts, a day tag rugby, a day plyos and core. Maybe an extra jog.

all that training is on top of training for GAA 2-3 times per week?

glasagusban

Transform wrote: »

all that training is on top of training for GAA 2-3 times per week?

You're confusing me with OP I think.

Transform

glasagusban wrote: »

You're confusing me with OP I think.

ok didnt realise it went off from OP post

Alf Veedersane

Transform wrote: »

ok didnt realise it went off from OP post

OP is still wondering if he can do weight training before GAA training if he ups his calorie intake to ~3,500 kcals,

Transform

he can hit the weights twice per week and it really doesnt matter when he does it (ideally not one day after another) so long as hes progressively getting stronger

more pressing IMO for a GAA player would be if he cant pass these simple mobility tests then he/she has some sh1t they need to address asap -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct6lJcYh-Ak

that should also be backed with stability work which is covered in his weights sessions.

Re diet - yawn yawn yawn are we not over the point where its irrelevant what activity and quantity they do so long as the simply eat more.

If hes looking to gain weight then calories for him specifically need to be more like 4,000 but again from my experience most GAA guys/gals dont need significantly more muscle and weight (unless they're chronically underweight) they need more mobility and better nutrition so they can help with recovery from sessions.

biffo2014

Transform wrote: »

he can hit the weights twice per week and it really doesnt matter when he does it (ideally not one day after another) so long as hes progressively getting stronger

more pressing IMO for a GAA player would be if he cant pass these simple mobility tests then he/she has some sh1t they need to address asap -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct6lJcYh-Ak

that should also be backed with stability work which is covered in his weights sessions.

Re diet - yawn yawn yawn are we not over the point where its irrelevant what activity and quantity they do so long as the simply eat more.

If hes looking to gain weight then calories for him specifically need to be more like 4,000 but again from my experience most GAA guys/gals dont need significantly more muscle and weight (unless they're chronically underweight) they need more mobility and better nutrition so they can help with recovery from sessions.

Thanks for the reply Transform. I actually came across your site a couple of weeks ago and did them tests. The one i found very difficult was the second one where my leg has to be parallel crossed to my body while my other leg is stretched out. I couldnt get my leg parallel - was more like a 45 Degree if you get me. Hips feel very tight dong this.

The first one I could nearly keep my back straight against the wall
The calf one - I could just about keep my barefoot heel on the ground
Shoulder one - I was able to keep my arms straight and do the exercise with a plastic bar. Used a mirror to see were they straight.

I do foam roll before training and after, especially on my hips and hamstrings. Would simply doing your four exercises every day help the mobility in my hips?

Transform

yup do it more and mash that glute as shown in the vid below at 2.20mins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYm65GjoJdg

sorry about pic and sound but thats from 2011 (shows how go info doesnt change)

Eat more and bang in the nut butter, whey shakes, avocado, loads of carbs on hard training days and just bloody get stronger!

Alf Veedersane

As regards the pigeon pose, people try to force it and end up putting a little too much pressure elsewhere. If you've squared your hips, and the top of your thigh/glute doesn’t rest on the floor, put something under for support. If the outer hip doesn’t have support, the body will lean to the side, making the hips uneven and messing with the sacrum. And even if you don't lean over but your left hip is just hanging out there, you're at risk of putting too much pressure on the knee.

So support it and don't force the leg/hip down because that's when the foot comes back reducing the angle. You'll ease into it over time and finding yourself needing less support.

I'm working on that myself for my left hip at the minute. It's a long process but it should help.

Darrenon91

Mobility and recovery are no doubt very important but the way GAA is gone and especially football you need to have strength to compete at a high level. The OP is a midfielder and while being mobile is important for a big lad, strenth is highly important as a primary ball winner.

Alf Veedersane

Darrenon91 wrote: »

Mobility and recovery are no doubt very important but the way GAA is gone and especially football you need to have strength to compete at a high level. The OP is a midfielder and while being mobile is important for a big lad, strenth is highly important as a primary ball winner.

Improved mobility will help with strength and reduce the risk of injury.

tommy100

I play both football and rugby at high enough standards, have done alot of gym work in the past. Think u need to work on power (not necessarily strength) and core strength. U def need at least 2 if not 3 sessions a week. 45 mins a session. Keep em short. You need to talk to some who can PROPERLY put a good programme together to suit u.

Darrenon91

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Improved mobility will help with strength and reduce the risk of injury.

Agreed. He has claimed that he is quite fast and has done good with the mobility exercises/tests which suggests his mobility is good, so maybe he should focus more on the strength side.

blatantrereg

Stretching directly builds strength. I read paper detailing a study where people gained significant strength while doing no other strength-building exercises apart from stretching.

Mr_Muffin

Can someone please explain how to build muscle and drop body fat at the same time?

Everyone says it is very difficult so that means it is not impossible. If someone just explained how to do it we could then we could all do it - no more bulking and cutting ever again!

biffo2014

Thanks for all the replies. Would 2 sessions of Benching, Dead lifting & Squatting at hypertrophy training and using the periodization method (i.e. building to peak at august/September) work?

And would it be better do these sessions on days that I dont train? I train 2 times a week football with either a match or an extra training session, if I combine 2 strength days that would still leave 2 days recovery in a week. Is that sufficient?

Alf Veedersane

Darrenon91 wrote: »

Agreed. He has claimed that he is quite fast and has done good with the mobility exercises/tests which suggests his mobility is good, so maybe he should focus more on the strength side.

Being fast and having good mobility aren't necessarily the same thing, in this context.

He said he struggled with hip mobility. Poor hip mobility is going to hamper his efforts to get stronger because there's a risk he'll put himself in poor positions to compensate for the poor mobility.

Mellor

Sometime when I see people talking about mobility, I can't help but think that they mean it in a different way. How mobile somebody is, ability to get themselves about the pitch, etc. Old person mobility aid type stuff.

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

Can someone please explain how to build muscle and drop body fat at the same time?

Everyone says it is very difficult so that means it is not impossible. If someone just explained how to do it we could then we could all do it - no more bulking and cutting ever again!

Train hard. Diet with body recomposition in mind.

How hard it is depends on your starting point. If you have 30% bodyfat and low muscles mass, it'll be pretty easy to achieve as large body fat stores provide easily assessed energy. If you are very lean with a lot of muscle, it won't happen as your body isn't gonna to waste energy building more muscle when in an energy deficit.

Depending on where you are now if may or may not be a worthwhile trying to do that.

biffo2014

The GAA doesnt realy get going till mid August and runs until end of September.

Would the following plan work. I use the periodization training plan as a template. I would concentrate on three main lifts - Bench, Squat & Deadlift. This would also be assisted with stability work. I would be training 2 days a week.

Week 1 - 3 x 10 @ 65% 1RM - 90 Sec rest between each set/2 Min rest between each exercise
Week 2 - 4 x 8 @ 70% 1RM - 90 Sec rest between each set/2 Min rest between each exercise
Week 3 - 5 x 6 @ 75% 1RM - 90 Sec rest between each set/2 Min rest between each exercise
Week 4 - 3 x 6 @ 60% 1RM - 90 Sec rest between each set/2 Min rest between each exercise

Week 5 - 3 x 8 @ 75% - 2 Min rest between sets/ 3 Min rest between exercises
Week 6 - 3 x 6 @ 80% - 2 Min rest between sets/ 3 Min rest between exercises
Week 7 - 4 x 4 @ 85% - 2 Min rest between sets/ 3 Min rest between exercises
Week 8 - 3 x 6 @ 70% - 2 Min rest between sets/ 3 Min rest between exercises

Week 9 - 2 x 4 @ 80% - 4 Min rest between sets/ 4 Min rest between exercises
Week 10 - 2 x 3 @ 85% - 4 Min rest between sets/ 4 Min rest between exercises
Week 11 - 2 x 2 @ 90% - 4 Min rest between sets/ 4 Min rest between exercises
Week 12 - 2 x 4 @ 75% - 4 Min rest between sets/ 4 Min rest between exercises

Week 12 would bring me up to Mid August time when I should be peaking. Combining the above with 2/3 Nights of GAA Training which is mostly ball work. Also will be upping my calories to try meet 3,300-3,500 calories using real foods (no processed foods as much as I can).

Would this training plan be sufficient. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

blatantrereg

I think you should do as much work on pulling as you do on pushing with your shoulders. Doing otherwise can lead to issues with your shoulders.

biffo2014

blatantrereg wrote: »

I think you should do as much work on pulling as you do on pushing with your shoulders. Doing otherwise can lead to issues with your shoulders.

Would Chin up/Pull ups help this?

Alf Veedersane

biffo2014 wrote: »

Would Chin up/Pull ups help this?

Yes, for vertical pulling. Try something like rows for horizontal pulling.