Health Insurance and LCR loadings

_Kaiser_

So watching the news here tonight and there's a story on the huge boost in sales for the health insurers today as people rush to get in before the midnight deadline when anyone over 35 who takes out insurance will have to pay extra on their premiums.

Personally I've never had health insurance - and all the scaremongering around it lately hasn't changed that.

Still, clearly the insurers are laughing tonight anyway.. but were you one of these people who scrambled to get cover tonight/this week?

kneemos

Not in you can't win.
What was the jackpot?

Sh1tbag OToole

I'd say it cost the health insurance a pretty penny to lobby the LCR into existence.

The Backwards Man

I've always had health insurance. It's like a penis pump, the only time you'll ever need it is when you don't have it.

_Kaiser_

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

I'd say it cost the health insurance a pretty penny to lobby the LCR into existence.

This is my thinking as well to be honest... it reminds me of how the motor industry lobbied the Government to do something about falling car sales in 2007, and we got stuck with a two-tier tax system that has destroyed resale values on anything that's not a 08+ <2.0 diesel, and left those who can't afford to upgrade taking that hit and ridiculous tax rates as well. The similar story that it was a "good thing" really (in that case to encourage "greener motoring") was shown to be false when they hiked those new rates anyway because tax take fell!

(Then they did the same again a few years later and we got stuck with the nonsensical 1x1/1x2 registration system).

In the same way I think all this will result in is everyone pays more, for no real return, but the guys and gals behind it will clean up

Cold War Kid

The one in the ad saying "cherge" is the thing I find most annoying - people with Cork accents (me included) trying to do posh: give it up, doesn't work.

Sh1tbag OToole

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This is my thinking as well to be honest... it reminds me of how SIMI lobbied the Government to do something about falling car sales in 2007, and we got stuck with a two-tier tax system that has destroyed resale values on anything that's not a 08+ <2.0 diesel, and left those who can't afford to upgrade taking that hit and ridiculous tax rates as well. The similar story that it was a "good thing" really (in that case to encourage "greener motoring") was shown to be false when they hiked those new rates anyway because tax take fell!

(Then they did the same again a few years later and we got stuck with the nonsensical 1x1/1x2 registration system).

In the same way I think all this will result in is everyone pays more, for no real return, but the guys and gals behind it will clean up

You can't win anymore, you think you're saving money and next thing you know they're after you to compensate for the falling revenue. Even when petrol prices go down I hope they go back up before budget day. I found out recently in Belgium they have some dynamic mechanism to increase the tax on petrol if the price goes down too far.

The 'carrot and stick' approach has evolved into the 'carrot, stick and holding pen' approach - they entice all the cattle into a holding pen full of carrots and once they're all inside they bring out the sticks.

delw

Bullying over 34's into health insurance because people couldn't afford it any more because of the amount of rises in the last few years & in step the government with this ,no i won't be availing of this wonderful offer

whatdoicare

Couldn't afford it before the deadline, cant afford it now, I don't know where in my arse the government thinks I'm growing money that I can just magically find all this spare cash for all these new charges, taxes and forced schemes.

I'm just barely surviving week to week and I'm proud to say I've never missed a mortgage payment, not one! I could do like others and say **** the mortgage, then id have plenty of money to waste on bs health insurance. But I wont. I cant afford to get sick anyway, ill be the horse on animal farm that works itself to death while the fat pigs laugh at me from the farmers house!

_Kaiser_

delw wrote: »

Bullying over 34's into health insurance because people couldn't afford it any more because of the amount of rises in the last few years & in step the government with this ,no i won't be availing of this wonderful offer

whatdoicare wrote: »

Couldn't afford it before the deadline, cant afford it now, I don't know where in my arse the government thinks I'm growing money that I can just magically find all this spare cash for all these new charges, taxes and forced schemes.

That's true.. maybe this was just a precursor to their mandatory UHI plan (which presumably has only been put back because of the IW mess). Scare people who can (just about) afford it into signing up now, and get the rest if they get another term in office.

Interestingly Ireland's favourite offshore billionaire bought the Beacon Hospital in Sandyford around the time as FG started bleating on about UHI last year....

crazygeryy

This thread in AH? really?

stoneill

More legislation by the govt making people deal with a private company that you have no control over the price.

whatdoicare

whatdoicare wrote: »

id have plenty of money to waste on bs health insurance. B

Not being able to afford it is one thing but health insurance is certainly not bs or a waste of money. People aren't getting it for fun.

jester77

It's so ridiculously cheap in Ireland that even with the loading it still works out cheap. I wouldn't be running to get it if I didn't already have it just because they brought this in. But it's something that you should have, your health is your wealth.

whatdoicare

Christine Pitiful Story wrote: »

Not being able to afford it is one thing but health insurance is certainly not bs or a waste of money. People aren't getting it for fun.

Most insurance policies are bs as they don't cover anything. I went looking through what's being offered and even the dearest policies cover very little really.

Outkast_IRE

whatdoicare wrote: »

Most insurance policies are bs as they don't cover anything. I went looking through what's being offered and even the dearest policies cover very little really.

The dearest policies cover virtually everything , if you cant find the difference between a €400 policy and a €6000 policy then you are not trying very hard.

The only common thing on most policy is out patient fees, the better plans will give 50% back on GP, Physio, Consultants, etc etc.

On a €400 policy all you are getting is a bed in a public hospital, on the better policies you will have a private or semi private room in private or high tech hospitals, which are a big step up from the public ones.

whatdoicare

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

The dearest policies cover virtually everything , if you cant find the difference between a €400 policy and a €6000 policy then you are not trying very hard.

The only common thing on most policy is out patient fees, the better plans will give 50% back on GP, Physio, Consultants, etc etc.

On a €400 policy all you are getting is a bed in a public hospital, on the better policies you will have a private or semi private room in private or high tech hospitals, which are a big step up from the public ones.

First of all, if you can afford a six grand policy you don't need insurance, you can go have your surgery on a cruise ship and recover in a five star hotel.

Second, there was a guy previously said his top of the range vhi work insurance didn't cover his specialist.
I only have experience with maternity services here but I really saw no difference between my care and the 3 grand extra my friend paid for her care. We both got the same consultant, the same team, we both got the same labour room, same midwife, same care, same everything. She didn't even get her private room, she was in a four bed ward with me. I paid nothing and she got to pay three grand for that. Even more than that, my baby had a problem which turned out to be nothing but the consultant spent a lot of time with me whereas someone was getting a csection at the same time as my friend was in labour so she didn't even see the consultant, she was palmed off on the junior doctors when she ran into trouble. Complete waste of time. She had to wait for her appointments in a different building (and pay for parking) big woop.

Maybe if you live in Dublin things are different but here in Limerick, you stay on a trolley in a corridor no matter what insurance you have.

I don't know many people being cajoled onto this insurance scam who are going to be getting the top of the range one anyway.

nice_guy80

My thinking on it is basically that in 10-15 years when I will probably get health insurance that I will be earning more and will be well able to afford that levy.

And the whole thing will probably have been overhauled by then anyway and be paid through direct taxation, which would be much better and keep money out of the hands of private health companies and billionaires who own private hospitals.

2smiggy

well i signed up, as a family member recently was ill and had insurance, and it really proved how valuable it was to him. Also i am paying ~€140 per month for sky and broadband, so it's not too much out of the way in my own situation.

whatdoicare

2smiggy wrote: »

well i signed up, as a family member recently was ill and had insurance, and it really proved how valuable it was to him. Also i am paying ~€140 per month for sky and broadband, so it's not too much out of the way in my own situation.

140 ???? What package have you got?! I have broadband unlimited and all the channels with sky and I only pay 60. You're being robbed my friend.

Brancott

Please remember that the loadings become null on void once (if) mandatory (universal) health insurance comes in.
Then we'll all be back to a level playing pitch.

Akrasia

Christine Pitiful Story wrote: »

Not being able to afford it is one thing but health insurance is certainly not bs or a waste of money. People aren't getting it for fun.

The types of policies that are being sold now to avoid the LCR levy are a scam.

They cover the bare minimum, A lot of people will have a shock in store when they get sick and find out that they weren't covered. And if they try to upgrade to a better policy, they have a 2 year waiting period on 'pre-existing conditions'

The 'pre-existing conditions' element of health insurance is why universal healthcare needs to be funded through tax, not through private health insurance (which we know is much more expensive and much less efficient)

Private health systems fail in two main ways

1. People with good (very expensive) health insurance are fleeced by private hospitals for expensive tests and treatments that they may not actually need

2. People with poor health insurance are denied cover for expensive treatments that they need.

So we end up with a dichotomy. Some of the population have excessively extravagant healthcare in luxurious hospitals (the Galway Clinic has a Player Piano in the hotel style lobby as you walk in)

Some of the population are paying for policies that barely cover them for anything and will suffer enormous financial pain if they become sick, or they are shunted back into the public health system

The rest of the population are left with the crumbs that are left after the private patients with the best insurance cover have had their fill.

Outkast_IRE

whatdoicare wrote: »

First of all, if you can afford a six grand policy you don't need insurance, you can go have your surgery on a cruise ship and recover in a five star hotel.

Second, there was a guy previously said his top of the range vhi work insurance didn't cover his specialist.
I only have experience with maternity services here but I really saw no difference between my care and the 3 grand extra my friend paid for her care. We both got the same consultant, the same team, we both got the same labour room, same midwife, same care, same everything. She didn't even get her private room, she was in a four bed ward with me. I paid nothing and she got to pay three grand for that. Even more than that, my baby had a problem which turned out to be nothing but the consultant spent a lot of time with me whereas someone was getting a csection at the same time as my friend was in labour so she didn't even see the consultant, she was palmed off on the junior doctors when she ran into trouble. Complete waste of time. She had to wait for her appointments in a different building (and pay for parking) big woop.

Maybe if you live in Dublin things are different but here in Limerick, you stay on a trolley in a corridor no matter what insurance you have.

I don't know many people being cajoled onto this insurance scam who are going to be getting the top of the range one anyway.

You dont need top of the range, a policy for €1100-€1400 will cover you for private hospitals and most of the procedures in high tech hospitals.

You can call it a scam all you want, i am in the unfortunate position of having 2 parents who have needed a lot of healthcare over the past few years and the thoughts of them waiting in A&E on trollies for days is sickening. At least with their health insurance their GP can refer them straight to the private hospital, for top class treatment. Their care over the past few years would come to over €100,000 if they were to pay for it themselves. This is when having insurance pays off.

And dont get me started on the public waiting lists for non-life threatening procedures. My g.f father was waiting over 2 years for a hip replacement, on high doses of painkillers every day for that 2 years, still in constant agony. If he had private health insurance he would of been taken care of in weeks.

And you are correct about maternity services they are pretty much the same, i will agree with you on that point.

Your insurance is worth its weight in gold if you become seriously ill, need non-emergency treatment such as hip or knee replacment etc. , or develop a long term illness.

whatdoicare

whatdoicare wrote: »

First of all, if you can afford a six grand policy you don't need insurance, you can go have your surgery on a cruise ship and recover in a five star hotel.

Second, there was a guy previously said his top of the range vhi work insurance didn't cover his specialist.
I only have experience with maternity services here but I really saw no difference between my care and the 3 grand extra my friend paid for her care. We both got the same consultant, the same team, we both got the same labour room, same midwife, same care, same everything. She didn't even get her private room, she was in a four bed ward with me. I paid nothing and she got to pay three grand for that. Even more than that, my baby had a problem which turned out to be nothing but the consultant spent a lot of time with me whereas someone was getting a csection at the same time as my friend was in labour so she didn't even see the consultant, she was palmed off on the junior doctors when she ran into trouble. Complete waste of time. She had to wait for her appointments in a different building (and pay for parking) big woop.

Maybe if you live in Dublin things are different but here in Limerick, you stay on a trolley in a corridor no matter what insurance you have.

I don't know many people being cajoled onto this insurance scam who are going to be getting the top of the range one anyway.

What happens if you are put on a two year waiting list for a procedure that you could have done next week in a private hospital. This is where having health insurance matters.

Look at that man that died at his daughters wedding, he was waiting and waiting and waiting for an operation and then he dropped dead.

I've been insured since the day I was born so I wont be worrying about this lcr and will never drop my health insurance.

whatdoicare

Christine Pitiful Story wrote: »

What happens if you are put on a two year waiting list for a procedure that you could have done next week in a private hospital. This is where having health insurance matters.

Look at that man that died at his daughters wedding, he was waiting and waiting and waiting for an operation and then he dropped dead.

I've been insured since the day I was born so I wont be worrying about this lcr and will never drop my health insurance.

I won't reply with too much detail as Akrasia and Brancott pretty much covered what I was going to say.
The Insurance available now is a scam, that man would have been in exactly the same situation as he wouldn't have been covered by the policies available now unless he could afford the most expensive one - and chances are seeing as he was on a waiting list, he couldn't afford it.

You shouldn't assume that getting insurance automatically covers most of what you need, it does'nt, it mostly just covers what you would have gotten public anyway and now that everyone has to have it, you're back to square one on the exact same waiting list unless you can afford to pay even more.

slig17

whatdoicare wrote: »

Most insurance policies are bs as they don't cover anything. I went looking through what's being offered and even the dearest policies cover very little really.

Hi, sorry for hijacking - i was with health insurance up to 2 years ago when i dropped it lack of funds but to be honest the wait publicly is terrible so i have been thinking of joining again - i have gallbladder issues but of course will have to wait 5 years to be covered unless consultant lies for me.... which i doubt anyways is this policy worth the money - i really dont know Advantage 125 Explore with laya - its for a family of 5

whatdoicare

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

You dont need top of the range, a policy for €1100-€1400 will cover you for private hospitals and most of the procedures in high tech hospitals.

The cheapest that covers barely anything in Laya for my family is 1200 with the maximum excess of 500 I pay myself and the button stating I'm happy to pay majority medical expenses myself clicked. It's for public with standard care. So 1200 plus 500 plus all medical expenses for public (which is free at the minute).

The cheapest with VHI is 1943 for the covers nothing plan. And that's all for two of us under the 34 cutoff and the oldest having had insurance before.

I'm not paying that kind of money for ****e care in a public hospital.

whatdoicare

whatdoicare wrote: »

I won't reply with too much detail as Akrasia and Brancott pretty much covered what I was going to say.
The Insurance available now is a scam, that man would have been in exactly the same situation as he wouldn't have been covered by the policies available now unless he could afford the most expensive one - and chances are seeing as he was on a waiting list, he couldn't afford it.

You shouldn't assume that getting insurance automatically covers most of what you need, it does'nt, it mostly just covers what you would have gotten public anyway and now that everyone has to have it, you're back to square one on the exact same waiting list unless you can afford to pay even more.

To be totally honest, I don't know a whole lot about the different policies as my mother has always and still does look after the health insurance for the whole family but I know my policy is quite good, not the top cover but it covers almost everything.

I didn't say people should get the most basic one either though however at least having something now even if its not great will save a lot of money in the future as you can upgrade to better policies that will cost far far more if you were to go in as a new customer.

Outkast_IRE

whatdoicare wrote: »

The cheapest that covers barely anything in Laya for my family is 1200 with the maximum excess of 500 I pay myself and the button stating I'm happy to pay majority medical expenses myself clicked. It's for public with standard care. So 1200 plus 500 plus all medical expenses for public (which is free at the minute).

The cheapest with VHI is 1943 for the covers nothing plan. And that's all for two of us under the 34 cutoff and the oldest having had insurance before.

I'm not paying that kind of money for ****e care in a public hospital.

You are are talking about family plans, i am referring to cost per adult.

slig17

When insurance companies talking about covering new illness straight away once the policy is taken out - is this true or would they have a way of worming out of it?

mikom

Akrasia wrote: »

The types of policies that are being sold now to avoid the LCR levy are a scam.

They cover the bare minimum, A lot of people will have a shock in store when they get sick and find out that they weren't covered. And if they try to upgrade to a better policy, they have a 2 year waiting period on 'pre-existing conditions'

The 'pre-existing conditions' element of health insurance is why universal healthcare needs to be funded through tax, not through private health insurance (which we know is much more expensive and much less efficient)

Private health systems fail in two main ways

1. People with good (very expensive) health insurance are fleeced by private hospitals for expensive tests and treatments that they may not actually need

2. People with poor health insurance are denied cover for expensive treatments that they need.

So we end up with a dichotomy. Some of the population have excessively extravagant healthcare in luxurious hospitals (the Galway Clinic has a Player Piano in the hotel style lobby as you walk in)

Some of the population are paying for policies that barely cover them for anything and will suffer enormous financial pain if they become sick, or they are shunted back into the public health system

The rest of the population are left with the crumbs that are left after the private patients with the best insurance cover have had their fill.

See the bolded piece above.

Dr James Sheehan: James Sheehan is founder of the Blackrock, Galway Clinics and Hermitage Clinics, private medical facilities which operate according to a Catholic ethos.

A patron of this lot..........http://www.ionainstitute.ie/index.php?id=80

eman66

The rich will get richer and the poor will die.

GP diagnosed heart block. I need a pace maker. He referred me as a public patient to a cardiologist in January 2014. 16 months later I haven't even had an initial consultaton. They have no intention of treating me. Without doubt, I will drop and all who could help, who pretend to, will be oblivious.

My mother received a letter from the consultant neurologist. She thought it was an appointment following a GP referral three year previous. It was, in fact, a letter stating the she will not be seen by a neurologist, ever.

If she had been wealthy enough to afford health insuracne or wealthy enough to afford to pay for the consultation hereself she would have been seen. As she is not wealthy enough, she, and I, can fcuk off and die.

whatdoicare

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

You are are talking about family plans, i am referring to cost per adult.

Well, I can't just get insurance for just me - most people will need family insurance. The majority of people who arent getting health insurance would most likely be young families, around the age of 34 who have a mortgage and financial responsibilities.
When I was single I could easily have afforded top of the range health insurance, I had no one to feed, house and cloth but myself.

Outkast_IRE

whatdoicare wrote: »

Well, I can't just get insurance for just me - most people will need family insurance. The majority of people who arent getting health insurance would most likely be young families, around the age of 34 who have a mortgage and financial responsibilities.
When I was single I could easily have afforded top of the range health insurance, I had no one to feed, house and cloth but myself.

Ok, its an optional product you can purchase that will get you a better standard to healthcare. If you cant afford it, that is unfortunate but ultimately, it is the same as not being able to afford a new car or house, its an optional expense for something better.

You are right with regards to the cheaper policies in the range of €400 per adult, you get very little with them and a large excess, they are not worth it.

However policies in the range of €1100 per adult and up, generally you get a decent amount for your money.

At the end of the day its optional, without it you just go to the local public hospital, which is sufficient for most emergency or routine needs however you have to accept the increased waiting times.