Episode 5x03 - High Sparrow - Have *NOT* read the books [** Spoilers **]

Roar

Quiet round these here parts....

Tommen. What a hero. The power struggle between Cersei and Margery is going to be very interesting indeed. Also, a game of thrones wedding without everyone dying? My word.

Is Jorah taking Tyrion back to Kings Landing, or to Danerys?

Sansa can't marry Ramsey Bolton... can she?

Again this week my favourite scenes were at the Wall. Jon Snow proving to be an excellent leader, something Stannis sees in him.

Also when Jonathan Pryce turned up all I could think was "bloody hell, Jonathan Pryce", which took me out of the scene a little bit. Interesting to see what Cersei's end game is with the Sparrows.

chasmcb

Good episode.

I assumed Jorah was taking Tyrion to Daenerys but now that you mention it, he could be taking him back to Cersei to restore his personal fortunes. Didn't Daenerys tell him when she was banishing him that he'd be killed if he showed up around her again?

Margery v Cersei will indeed be a fascinating battle.

Great seeing Jon Snow asserting himself as Commander of the Night's Watch. That was interesting Davos reminding him of their oath and how it could be interpreted to mean they have to defend "the realms of men" not just the wall. I wonder might we see Jon join up with Stannis after all to kick some Bolton butt.

Still no updates on Brann's quest either!

connollys

Not sure if its a spoiler or not, and please, remove if so, but didnt the producers announce before the start of this season that we wouldnt be seeing Bran at all in S05.

Parrallels with Ned beheading the deserter from the wall in the first episode.

Delighted Arya didnt throw Needle away.

IrishAlice

connollys wrote: »

Not sure if its a spoiler or not, and please, remove if so, but didnt the producers announce before the start of this season that we wouldnt be seeing Bran at all in S05.

Parrallels with Ned beheading the deserter from the wall in the first episode.

Delighted Arya didnt throw Needle away.

I think I was nearly as upset at the thought of Needle being thrown away as I was with any of my favourite characters being killed

Really enjoyed this episode. Kind of glad to hear we won't be seeing Bran this season, his storyline is very slow. It's obvious it's going to be important down the line but right now...meh.

Jon's storyline has been really good so far this season, I find myself hoping for the Wall to be in each episode which is not something I really did before last season.

It's shaping up nicely to be a good season.

laraghrider

I think last night did take it up a notch. You can see Cersei somewhat struggling to cope with the new contender but that was pretty much (I think) the start of the match between those two. Could turn very interesting.

I did hear at the start of this series that we wouldn't be seeing Brann until next season which is fine as that story was a drag anyway. I got the impression that Tyrion was being taken back to DT alright and drinking himself away in a brothel Jorah is obviously struggling being away so maybe this is his shot at getting back in. Or so he sees it that way. I was actually quite happy that her story was kept to a minimum this week anyway as I think we needed a break from it until they are willing to ramp it up.

Little finger, still, which side is he playing. Such a well played and interesting character. You're never quite sure are you but that little speech to Sansa was golden.

ashdale5

Anyone think it may have been a mistake by Jon not showing mercy?

Reminded me of Rob Stark letting his sense of honour get in the way of political savvy when he beheaded Rikard Karstark ad we all know how that turned out.

wp_rathead

ashdale5 wrote: »

Anyone think it may have been a mistake by Jon not showing mercy?

Reminded me of Rob Stark letting his sense of honour get in the way of political savvy when he beheaded Rikard Karstark ad we all know how that turned out.

i thought Daenarys killing the former slave in last episode was more parallel to Robb Stark decision with the Karstarks.. Was rather glad Jon got to kill him (name escapes me) though, remember it was him that betrayed Ned Stark in Season 1 and Killed Roberts bastard children/babies

ashdale5

wp_rathead wrote: »

i thought Daenarys killing the former slave in last episode was more parallel to Robb Stark decision with the Karstarks.. Was rather glad Jon got to kill him (name escapes me) though, remember it was him that betrayed Ned Stark in Season 1 and Killed Roberts bastard children/babies

Oh yeah I was cheering when he cut his head off but he did warn Jon that he still had friends in Kings Landing.

squonk

My main takeaway from this week's episode.... Tommen! What a lucky, lucky man!

Incidentally have all the main characters gotten away from getting their kit off now? The only full frontal this week was with the High Septor in Baylish's brothel.

Also, The Real Housewives Of Kings Landing! Brilliant!

I felt bad for Janos Slinth. He was a coward. I think having to live with that being publicly known was sentence enough. I wouldn't like to be someone who wasn't excessively brave now under Jon's command. That being said, I don't think most would run to hide with the women and children in an attack but I do think mercy should have been shown. What's more, it was the way the execution was carried out. It was more like a moment of frustration on Jon's part than something he definitely intended to do. It's kind of diminished Jon a little in my eyes.

Nice to see the Arya story moving forward again.

I suspect that Littlefinger knows that Sansa will end up as the power in Winterfell in time. It seems to me he's shoring up his support in the north to make a credible bid for the Kingship. He's playing a long game but he's putting his piece together slowly and carefully.

I'd imagine Ser Friendzone is looking to get back into Dany's good graces by bringing along Tyrion. Bringing him back to Cersei would make more sense though he could gain more, positionally and emotionally by bringing him to Dany. The Dany prostitute was brilliant though!

By all accounts now they've devidated from the books quite a bit. For the first time last night while watching I got the impression that the quality and meticulous storytelling wasn't quite up to what it was. Maybe it was just my mood but things seemed more 'written for TV' or something. It was maddening at times before when we'd touch on something ongoing for weeks over time with no apparent change but patience was sometimes rewarded. It seems now there's a more subtle immediacy or something. I can't put my finger on it. The show just feels different.

Crocked

connollys wrote: »

Not sure if its a spoiler or not, and please, remove if so, but didnt the producers announce before the start of this season that we wouldnt be seeing Bran at all in S05.

Parrallels with Ned beheading the deserter from the wall in the first episode.

Delighted Arya didnt throw Needle away.

That's exactly what sprung to my mind during that scene.

Also thought it was interesting that Littlefinger doesn't know anything about Ramsey so doesn't really know what he's, and indeed what he's getting Sansa, into there.

chasmcb

ashdale5 wrote: »

Anyone think it may have been a mistake by Jon not showing mercy?

Reminded me of Rob Stark letting his sense of honour get in the way of political savvy when he beheaded Rikard Karstark ad we all know how that turned out.

I think Jon was right to carry out the execution. It lay down a marker for everyone in the Night's Watch that he's not to be messed with. Not only had Janos rejected the command to go take charge of that other fort he had publicly insulted and belittled Jon which amounts to mutiny/treason -definitely merited having his head lopped off. Under the circumstances, being merciful would have made Jon look weak I think and furthermore Janos was untrustworthy, had he been spared he'd have almost certainly started scheming against Jon again. Unlike Robb's execution of the Karstark chieftain, this execution was actually a good example of political savvy I think.

squonk

I don't know. I'm not convinced. It doesn't seem like Littlefinger to leave much to chance. I suspect he knows more than he's letting on right now. That's what I'd expect of the guy. By that token however it's an incredibly bastardly thing to do to Sansa if he does know something of Ramsay's form.

What I don't get is that it seems obvious he's making a play for the north himself so it doesn't seem like the greatest strategy to arrange a marriage that could be an important piece in his jigsaw without some research.

Let's face it, right now I can see Ramsay certainly raping, possibly torturing and even killing Sansa. That hardly serves to keep Winderfell on-side for Littlefinger. Sansa has toughened up but she's no Margery Tyrell either. It all looks like a very dangerous and ill-thought through move on Littlefinger's part. I'm just now buying that he's actually walked himself deliberately into this.

Crocked

Indeed he could have made that comment to wrong foot the Boltons into thinking he would be wrong footed. Also there was the big conversation over dinner on how Ramsey had terrorised one of the other families to pay their taxes by skinning the family alive and you'd have to think word of that spread quickly.

chasmcb

I think it was a telling little detail where the serving woman greeted Sansa as the lady Stark. With the rest of her family dead/scattered, Sansa is the one that the loyal Stark clans will give their allegiance to, not the Boltons. Of course she is still too green to be able to capitalise on that yet but I do think it will protect her against any of Ramsey's sadistic impulses. The Boltons know they are on shaky ground as it is and surely they can't afford to mis-treat Sansa or they'd have the North up in arms against them.

ziedth

the beheading really caught me by surprise I was fully expecting him to Show mercy as it's the first time it would have happened. Although while it was clear that Rob and Denny's decision to carry out their respective executions were a mistake it seemed to me anyway that it was a Positive thing for Jon.

I don't know was it just my imagination but what I liked was when Janos talked **** to Jon he kind of looked around for backup and they all just carried out Jon's orders and brought him outside.

I have to watch the 4th one now. Cant hold it off any longer.

wp_rathead

Could someone please remind me where did Rickon go with Osha?
I know most believe himself and Bran were killed by Theon, but he fecked off somewhere to hide, can't remember where

connollys

Last I remember they were heading for House Umber who were loyal to the Starks but dont think we got any more update on it than that, or if did, I missed it.

kneejerk

squonk wrote: »

By all accounts now they've devidated from the books quite a bit. For the first time last night while watching I got the impression that the quality and meticulous storytelling wasn't quite up to what it was. Maybe it was just my mood but things seemed more 'written for TV' or something. It was maddening at times before when we'd touch on something ongoing for weeks over time with no apparent change but patience was sometimes rewarded. It seems now there's a more subtle immediacy or something. I can't put my finger on it. The show just feels different.

To be honest I think there has certainly been a drop off in quality. I hope it’s just a blip and isn’t related to a lack of book material which would point to a permanent decline.

I had rated GOT as up there with the Sopranos, but for brief moments this season I’ve been watching scenes thinking it is more akin to Spartacus or Xena!

Obviously that’s an overreaction but the first 3 episodes have not been anywhere near as engrossing as before. I think this is not due to any major flaw but just numerous drop offs in the quality of the scripting and execution of some of the minor scenes.
I’m sure things will pick up though.

mikemac1

Did the coward expect Allister Throne to back him up and so he would never be taken to the scaffold?

There was a brief moment before they took him outside where he looked at Thorne who then looked away as if "so be it". I got the impression up until the very last the coward reckoned Jon would back down.

I'm glad he didnt. As said above he layed down a marker and while he's not seeking approval from Stannis he got it

TarfHead

Cersei's storyline is getting very interesting. Tommen is besotted with Margery, Tywin is dead and she has sent Jaime off to Dorne. So she is, in effect, alone which is why she is trying to get on the right side of the High Sparrow.

I thought Margery's line about not having any wine to offer her was brilliant.

Sansa's storyline may get hard to watch. I sense that she may end up pining for the humiliations heaped on her by Joffrey, when faced with the depravities that Ramsay is capable of. And she has to watch her back with what some reviewer referred to as his 'harem of skanks'.

chasmcb

kneejerk wrote: »

To be honest I think there has certainly been a drop off in quality. I hope it’s just a blip and isn’t related to a lack of book material which would point to a permanent decline.
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I think there is just a bit of a lull. Some major characters -Tywin, the Hound, Mance Radar -have been killed off, Tyrion has been stuck inside a wagon, Brienne is wandering over hill and dale, and as regards the war it's like the combatants are having a breather before the next round. I'm sure pulses will be racing again as much as ever before long. I wonder how the 'Frankenstein' version of the Mountain will turn out?!

PressRun

I definitely think something bad is going to happen to Sansa with Ramsey. She's getting a little bit better at using her wit, but I reckon she's out of her depth against the Boltons' sheer brutality. What's she to do if Ramsey decides he wants to have his way with her?

Alternatively, Reek could finally make himself useful and offer her a hand in surviving the brute.

J. Marston

That shot of Ramsey's former missus makes me think it's not Ramsey that Sansa should be worried about.

Roar

PressRun wrote: »

Alternatively, Reek could finally make himself useful and offer her a hand in surviving the brute.

I think so - it'll be the start of Theon's redemption

GerB40

Roar wrote: »

I think so - it'll be the start of Theon's redemption

Or the end of his miserable life..

conorhal

squonk wrote: »

I don't know. I'm not convinced. It doesn't seem like Littlefinger to leave much to chance. I suspect he knows more than he's letting on right now. That's what I'd expect of the guy. By that token however it's an incredibly bastardly thing to do to Sansa if he does know something of Ramsay's form.

What I don't get is that it seems obvious he's making a play for the north himself so it doesn't seem like the greatest strategy to arrange a marriage that could be an important piece in his jigsaw without some research.

Let's face it, right now I can see Ramsay certainly raping, possibly torturing and even killing Sansa. That hardly serves to keep Winderfell on-side for Littlefinger. Sansa has toughened up but she's no Margery Tyrell either. It all looks like a very dangerous and ill-thought through move on Littlefinger's part. I'm just now buying that he's actually walked himself deliberately into this.

It's win-win for Littlefinger surely?

If Sansa manages to manipulate and eliminate the Boltons then he has a protégé in a key position controling the north, if Sansa is murdered and the 'North remembers' then the North will be in open revolt against one of the Lannisters key allies. Either way the North is either on his side or out of the game.

Most satisfying of all this episode was seeing Sir Mopesalot at the wall finally grow a hairy pair.

wp_rathead

GerB40 wrote: »

Or the end of his miserable life..

Aye, Unless he joins the Nightwatch I don't see where he can go where he won't be killed tbh
Greyjoys won't help him (remember his sister tried save him last year, and afterwards she said "my brother is dead", also he got his bannermen flayed alive at Moat Calin)
Stannis is a stickler for justice - and Theon killed alot of innocent people when he stormed Winterfell
Northern men I'm sure would love to see him killed after he betrayed Robb

So even if he does end up saving Sansa I don't see it ending well for him

That said, I really hope we don't see Sansa being tormented by yet another tyrant and instead we see her character able to manipulate Ramsay

tricky D

Also, how does Stannis heading off to Winterfell affect Sansa's near future?> Will it affect wedding timetable? What eggs does Littlefinger have in Stannis' basket?

As for 3/4 quiet episodes, it's just a calm before a storm if some of the unspecific spoilers are to be believed.

B17G

chasmcb wrote: »

Some major characters -Tywin, the Hound, Mance Radar -have been killed off,

Is that a definite though? Arya Stark abandoned him on the hillside last season. Never saw him dying.

J. Marston

B17G wrote: »

Is that a definite though? Arya Stark abandoned him on the hillside last season. Never saw him dying.

The Hound still being alive is a popular theory but I don't buy it. I think it was shown that way to emphasise Arya's vengeance rather than a way of keeping Sandor alive.

PressRun

It never really crossed my mind that the Hound might actually still be alive until people started theorizing about it. I always just thought that the way he ended up was intended more as a bit of character development with Arya. He was asking her to kill him at the end and her walking away to leave him to die alone and slowly was just to show how hardened she's become in a way. Arya has become quite single-minded in her pursuit of vengeance now as it seems to be the only thing she has left to hold onto since so much of her life has been torn from her, so she has no issue with giving people what she thinks they deserve. Leaving the Hound to die was her form of justice for him.

chasmcb

PressRun wrote: »

It never really crossed my mind that the Hound might actually still be alive until people started theorizing about it. I always just thought that the way he ended up was intended more as a bit of character development with Arya. He was asking her to kill him at the end and her walking away to leave him to die alone and slowly was just to show how hardened she's become in a way. Arya has become quite single-minded in her pursuit of vengeance now as it seems to be the only thing she has left to hold onto since so much of her life has been torn from her, so she has no issue with giving people what she thinks they deserve. Leaving the Hound to die was her form of justice for him.

I remember thinking that was fairly mean of Arya at the time. Sure the Hound was a bit of a bollox but he did save her hide a couple of times after all, and he was instrumental in her getting Needle back as well.

TheBunk1

J. Marston wrote: »

That shot of Ramsey's former missus makes me think it's not Ramsey that Sansa should be worried about.

Sansa is getting tougher little by little. We could see her retaliate at some stage. I remember Tyrion saying, when asked (by Jamie I think?) if she killed Joffrey - "she's not capable of killing anyone...yet"

Degag

The Hound was/is my favourite character.

A friend of mine is adamant that he's not dead because of the animosity between himself and his brother and that we will get a payoff between the two at some point. Chekhov's Gun and all that.

While I hope he is right, I have explained that GoT doesn't really follow rules.

chasmcb

Degag wrote: »

The Hound was/is my favourite character.

A friend of mine is adamant that he's not dead because of the animosity between himself and his brother and that we will get a payoff between the two at some point. Chekhov's Gun and all that.

While I hope he is right, I have explained that GoT doesn't really follow rules.

Yeh I loved the Hound too, his witheringly cynical comments were always a delight, especially when they were the prologue to him committing mayhem on all around him like in that scene where he got Arya a horse and Needle after slaughtering the fellas in the tavern.

xper

Did I detect a bit of continuity/credibility failure re the location of the Boltons? The last I remember seeing them, Daddy Bolton was naming Ramsey his true heir and they were rocking up to Winterfell (which now has the Bolton sigil on it in the opening titles). I would have thought they would have had to base themselves there or the Dreadfort in oder to keep control over The North and yet in this episode we find them and their whole household at Moat Cailin at the southern tip of The North's huge extent.

connollys

xper wrote: »

Did I detect a bit of continuity/credibility failure re the location of the Boltons? The last I remember seeing them, Daddy Bolton was naming Ramsey his true heir and they were rocking up to Winterfell (which now has the Bolton sigil on it in the opening titles). I would have thought they would have had to base themselves there or the Dreadfort in oder to keep control over The North and yet in this episode we find them and their whole household at Moat Cailin at the southern tip of The North's huge extent.

Again, I could be mistaken, but I thought they were at Winterfell, and thats why all the rebuilding work was happening.
It showed Littlefinger and Sansa at Moat Cailin as it is on the way to Winterfell. At that stage it was time to tell Sansa where they were going.

Mickeroo

They were at Winterfell, they just passed through Moat Cailin on the way. Moat Cailin controls the causeway that crosses the swamps you could see behind the fort, if you look closely you could see the causeway too.

extra gravy

Are we to presume that Littlefinger is unaware of Ramsey's sadistic side and the danger Sansa could face? Surely if he was aware, he would not have put her that position.

extra gravy

Are we to presume that Littlefinger is unaware of Ramsey's sadistic side and the danger Sansa could face? Surely if he was aware, he would not have put her that position.

kneejerk

extra gravy wrote: »

Are we to presume that Littlefinger is unaware of Ramsey's sadistic side and the danger Sansa could face? Surely if he was aware, he would not have put her that position.

I’m not convinced that she faces much of a direct threat from Ramsey.

For him she is the ultimate prize, from being a ba$tard to marrying a lady. I actually think his former missus is more likely to get culled by him that Sansa.

Anyway Roose Bolton is savvy enough to know she is their strongest bargaining chip, be it to Cerci (who wants her dead) or Stannis (who would use her to get backing from the North to go to war) or through marriage to help the Boltons rule the north.

The real question is why did Littlefinger leave her there and what his next move is?

xper

connollys wrote: »

Again, I could be mistaken, but I thought they were at Winterfell, and thats why all the rebuilding work was happening.
It showed Littlefinger and Sansa at Moat Cailin as it is on the way to Winterfell. At that stage it was time to tell Sansa where they were going.

Mickeroo wrote: »

They were at Winterfell, they just passed through Moat Cailin on the way. Moat Cailin controls the causeway that crosses the swamps you could see behind the fort, if you look closely you could see the causeway too.

Right, they didn't make that particularly clear then. I copped the "Welcome home Lady Stark" shout out but that made just as much sense if it was at Moat Cailin, as the entry point to The North. Maybe its on the cutting room floor or the shooting schedule didn't allow it but a quick shot of Sansa's reaction of Winterfell coming to view for the first time would have been useful for orientation and emotional impact.

Anyway, marrying Ramsey ... wow, makes Joffrey seem tolerable.

Mickeroo

xper wrote: »

Right, they didn't make that particularly clear then. I copped the "Welcome home Lady Stark" shout out but that made just as much sense if it was at Moat Cailin, as the entry point to The North. Maybe its on the cutting room floor or the shooting schedule didn't allow it but a quick shot of Sansa's reaction of Winterfell coming to view for the first time would have been useful for orientation and emotional impact.

Anyway, marrying Ramsey ... wow, makes Joffrey seem tolerable.

Nearly sure there was a shot of winterfell from the outside too .

GerB40

Mickeroo wrote: »

Nearly sure there was a shot of winterfell from the outside too .

The shot of Sansa, Littlefinger and the Knights of the Vale entering Winterfell mirrored the shot of Robert Baratheon and friends from the first episode making it fairly clear it was Winterfell.

xper

I guess I must have gotten something in my eye at just the wrong moment.

Edit: Yep, just watched the repeat and there it is, a wide establishing shot of Winterfell just before Roose's Marriage > Skinning Alive chat with Ramsey.

chasmcb

No chat/feedback on the latest episode? Come on folks! Two more key players killed off. Littlefinger kissing Sansa, and remember her comment in earlier episode "I know what u want", is he hankering to get into her knickers? Is she inclined to let him? And Jon Snow resisting Red Lady's advances does that mean we won't see him marching on Winterfell with Stannis, shame,I would have liked that

Mormegil

chasmcb wrote: »

No chat/feedback on the latest episode? Come on folks!

Episode 4 Thread (non Book readers)