The future of Irish genealogy

Waitsian

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/irish-roots-establishment-of-ireland-as-european-centre-of-genealogical-excellence-urged-1.2182289

John Grenham's latest article makes for interesting reading and he includes a link for the Oireachtas report and it's recommendations. Here it is:

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/media/Committee-Report-on-Genealogy.pdf

I'm going to read it tonight and will comment on it afterwards. I'm sure it would be of great interest to regular readers and posters here and no doubt we'll all have ideas and thoughts and comments after reading it.

His second last sentence made me smile of course in that there is no greater skeptic of government intentions than I but I'll read the report anyway and take it from there.

pinkypinky

I can't believe we haven't discussed this online already! I read it the day it came out.

It's very comprehensive but I'm not sure how realistic it is at all. We've had other reports like this (early 2000s in relation to the heritage bill?) and virtually nothing came of it.

What would you say to the argument that we already have a chief genealogical officer in the form of the Chief Herald of Ireland? The post is vacant at the moment, afaik.

I'd love this to give the GRO/CSO a kick up the bum but I am old and cynical.

pedroeibar1

Taking just one simple matter that is "in-house" rather than having to fight for consensus with outsiders , just look at the Census " issue" - Quote from page 22 of the Report:
The Central Statistics Office does not support the reduction of the 100 year embargo down to a 70 year release date. The CSO has been reluctant to engage with the Government on this issue – despite a commitment in the Programme for Government to deal with this issue. The CSO have, to date, advised the Department of the Taoiseach against amending the Statistics Act 1993 which would allow for the embargo to be reduced. The APGI (The Association of Professional Genealogists in Ireland) have suggested a compromise in that if the embargo was to be reduced there could be a temporary redaction of data relating to those born less than a hundred years ago. So far, neither the CSO nor the Government have accepted such a compromise. (My underlining.)

So, it's another case of 'turf minding' and the petty fiefdoms of the various State entities involved. With a few more "tweaks" it could be a blueprint, but on the overall scheme of things genealogy is very far down the list. Senior politicos would be needed to bash heads to get past this type of hurdle, but the few with that ability are currently too focussed on the next election and keeping their noses in the trough. (I'm older and even more cynical than Pinky!)

(and FWIW, Page 28, it's Boer War, not Boar War.)

pinkypinky

Boar War sounds like a terrible farm reality tv show.

Coolnabacky1873

True, pinky, I'm surprised we didn't discuss this yet, thanks for starting a thread, mod9maple.

A few of the TDs "get' how genealogy can help the economy via tourism (I know all of us here are gene fundamentalists but the $$$ angle has to be used with non-gene decision makers in Govt*) and I hope Arts/Heritage Minister HH will learn as she is in her role. Unfortunately, that is just not enough critical mass.

I like the idea of using the existing Chief Herald position and converting it. However, it would have to be moved out of the NLI and into a Govt Dept (Taoiseach? AHG?) and also give statutory powers.

I'm a keen industry watcher and I think Dublin does have fantastic potential to be a European Salt Lake City and more.

*A tanget, but I went looking for the survey forms they give to tourists at points of entry into Ireland to see why they come/what they spend, etc.. and there is no answer option for family history/ancestry reasons. Something as basic as that would allow for some accurate stats on % of tourists who come to Ireland because of genealogy.

Jellybaby1

Coolnabacky1873 wrote: »

.....*A tanget, but I went looking for the survey forms they give to tourists at points of entry into Ireland to see why they come/what they spend, etc.. and there is no answer option for family history/ancestry reasons. Something as basic as that would allow for some accurate stats on % of tourists who come to Ireland because of genealogy.

Abso-flippin-lutely!

KildareFan

Just had a quick read. I disagree with the criticisms of locating the GRO research office in Werburgh Street - I find it far more convenient than its previous location. It's just up the road from the National Archives Office. It is quite central to a lot of historic locations - Werburgh St Church, Dublin Castle, Christ Church Cathedral, St Patrick's Cathedral etc. Burdock's fish and chip shop and a nice new cafe, Rosie's are just across the road. There's plenty of parking in Jury's or just outside the office and there's even a bus stop right outside.

My main problem with the GRO office is that it could offer so much more than a walk in facility to collect printed photo copies of the register. You don't even need to look at the index books which are the only 'research' material if you've already checked on Family search or any of the other online databases. The only reason you need to go there is to check on the indexes for the years which post date the years covered in the online databases.

So far I haven't seen any queues for the one toilet, and most of the people I've seen don't use laptops. If the office offered more services there might be a problem there.

I would suggest that they move into the 21st century, and start taking credit or debit cards. I was there last week and they staff had run out of change - too many €50 notes. I was glad to help by giving them all my €2 coins. Also, they could up the daily limit of copies from 8.

pinkypinky

They'd hardly need an office at all if they had an online ordering system, which would make far more money than they imagine. Limits would become unnecessary.

Jellybaby1

Regarding using laptops in the GRO. I usually don't see any. I don't bring my laptop in as I have already done my research on FamilySearch and just bring in the forms. They supply me with my records, I pay my bill, I leave. I do pop into the loo but on one occasion it was out of order, which in my book is definitely out of order just to have one loo for all and once installed there to be disturbed by someone rattling the handle, that is really archaic, and embarrassing on different levels. I wonder if the staff toilet facility is better than this? Plenty of room for a little coffee shop too, just wall it off away from the research room. Some computers with access to the free sites just like in the NLI would be nice too. I know some people turning up don't have any computer experience and it would be great to show them FamilySearch or IrishGenealogy. Any scope for professional/amateur volunteer genealogists like the NAI? This service is availed of by many many tourists and local researchers in the other centres. Add into the mix other records and you might be getting somewhere near offering a proper genealogical service. Oh yeah, credit cards are an absolute must. I have on a few occasions had to leave without just one more record as I ran short of cash, and the cash I had left was my bus fare home.

FTGE4

"Colette O'Flaherty is Keeper of Archival Collections and Chief Herald of Ireland. The Library's Archival Collections include the Manuscripts, Photographs, and Born-Digital collections."

That's on the National Library Management page. I hope she still is Chief Herald!

Hermy

KildareFan wrote: »

I disagree with the criticisms of locating the GRO research office in Werburgh Street - I find it far more convenient than its previous location.

In it's previous location the GRO was a stones throw from Connolloy Station and Bus Aras, as well as the Luas and countless bus routes on Eden Quay, Lower Abbey Street and O'Connell Street etc. As someone with a 2 hour train journey to get to Dublin I'd much prefer to see it more centrally located.

My biggest gripe with the GRO at present is the quality of service.

• The recently reprinted index books are illegilble in places.
  
• The research certs now provided are of a much lower quality than what was once on offer. For comparrison here's the old and the new.
  
• The office is currently staffed by people who appear to have very little interest in either genealogy or tourism. I shudder to think what impression foreign visitors are left with when dealing with the sometimes frosty reception on offer.
  
• The website is also of such a poor standard, especially the search engine, which baffles me given that the Church records site that sits alongside it doesn't suffer the same fate. As an example try searching for a Young married to a Kennedy and nothing is found but try searching for a Kennedy married to a Young and it finds 2 results.

It's all very well promising to deliver more services but I would first like to see the standard of existing services being brought up to scratch.

KildareFan

"The office is currently staffed by people who appear to have very little interest in either genealogy or tourism. I shudder to think what impression foreign visitors are left with when dealing with the sometimes frosty reception on offer."

I wonder to what extent the staff attitude results from the work they are doing? I would say someone further up the system has decided what their duties/responsibilities are, and the limits of what they can do for visitors.

Their entire interaction with the public involves taking a slip of paper, taking coins/notes, putting them in the till, printing a receipt and pointing to where the various index books are on the shelves - and also telling visitors to bring the books to the tables, rather than take a quick look at the shelves. The other task is to take a slip of paper with the index details on it, check that the details are legible take coins/notes, put them in the till, print a receipt, and tell the visitor to wait. They then disappear into the back room and ten to twenty minutes later someone emerges, yells your name and hands you your copies. You can't ask them questions, you can't say, can you check if the mother's name is X and if not, don't print the cert, can you explain why this great aunt of mine was baptised in Cork in 1878 but I can't find a trace of her anywhere in the indexes .... They might as well be working in Argos.

It would be just as effective if they had a few machines in the building where you could print out your own copy of the register....

pinkypinky

FTGE4 wrote: »

"Colette O'Flaherty is Keeper of Archival Collections and Chief Herald of Ireland. The Library's Archival Collections include the Manuscripts, Photographs, and Born-Digital collections."

That's on the National Library Management page. I hope she still is Chief Herald!

While her name does appear in the management structure, Colette's background is all librarian and archival work. On the actual pages to do with the office of Chief Herald, her name is not mentioned at all, which is surprising.

Side note: surprised/pleased to see the entire NLI management team is made up of women!

Hermy

KildareFan wrote: »

It would be just as effective if they had a few machines in the building where you could print out your own copy of the register....

At least said machine would probably be less likely to leave it's copy of whatever tabloid rag it was 'reading' open at page three while it took your money!:o

Jellybaby1

Regarding the staff, I've never had any major disputes with them, but yes, things like reading the newspaper, and chewing gum which I have observed should not be done when dealing with the public. Also a little smartening up by a dress code would be high on my list too. For some every day is dress-down day and shows a careless attitude towards the public, we who pay their wages! The only other thing that comes to mind one time I handed in 9 forms instead of 8 by mistake and was told I could only have 8 and a finger was thumped on the A4 notice on the window. Felt as if I had been slapped. That is no way to deal with customers. No amount of training will change some people though.

pinkypinky

The GRO staff's attitude is set from above and the tone has always been that genealogy is not the primary concern. I think the vast majority of people visiting their premises (which was better at Abbey St than currently) are involved in family history research. They need to capitalise on that and evolve but that can only come from top down. Joan Burton is who we need to lobby on it.

Jellybaby1

Maybe Joan Burton needs to visit the GRO incognito to find out what its like for us. Pity she'd stick out like a sore thumb mind i.e. height, hair, and voice.

pinkypinky

Her hair is very high alright!

On a more serious note, I lobbied as long ago as Mary Harney to get them to do something with the GRO, pointing out what a money maker it could be and got nowhere.

CIGO is hopefully going to become more active again in the next while. Hopefully they can do something.

L1011

I had a "we don't accept forms after half four but we'll do it this time treatment once - receipt said it was barely 20 past!

Jellybaby1

At twenty-past they are winding up to go home and don't like to entertain any callers.