Neutering and Spaying.

kneemos

Is it cruel to do this to our pets?
I know it reduces strays and unwanted pets but is it mutilation for the sake of convenience?I'd be in two minds myself,however I think it's Switzerland that don't allow it so obviously it's not universally accepted.

Pumpkinseeds

I think that it's cruelty to not have a pet spayed/neutered. There are so many animals suffering on the streets of this country because people didn't have the decency or sense to have their pets spayed. We can control our own reproduction but animals can't, so we have a duty to protect them. Apart from the unwanted litters, there's the fighting that accompanies animals on heat, as well as injuries sustained in fighting/wandering as well as many animals being lost or killed on the roads or by other animals while chasing females.

That's before we even factor in diseases that are transmitted. We have our cats neutered/spayed, I wouldn't have it any other way.

I just had a Google, according to what I read Switzerland has NO stray dogs, so doesn't have the welfare issues that we face in Ireland. They also DO encourage spaying/neutering of cats.

Lia_lia

Not as cruel as the amount of unwanted dogs/cats that get euthanised in pounds everyday in the country!

Flood

Its either neutering and spaying or put them on the pill.

blackbird 49

No, as you have mentioned it reduced unwanted litter of pups/ kittens, And I'm sure if you asked any animal shelter they would tell you the same, it's not fair to let an animal have a litter of babies every year or in the case of cats twice a year, there are 2 many strayed or unwanted animals in this country

biko

Not enough neutering and spaying is going on.


Wait, are we talking about animals or people?

Areyouwell

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

We can control our own reproduction but animals can't

Oh we can control our reproduction alright, but many just couldn't be arsed unfortunately. We're bigger vermin on this planet than any over population of dogs & cats could ever be.

ToddyDoody

kneemos wrote: »

Is it cruel to do this to our pets?

Only if you try to perform the operation yourself.

Speaking of operations, I wonder Has a pet ever had a sex change. Someone Google it and get back?

JJJJNR

Vet just spayed my lab a few weeks ago, I don't think its cruel at all, in fact the opposite, I'd hate to see my dog being separated from her puppies, it was traumatic enough taking her, and seeing the effect it had on both animals. So I never want to put her through that. I think spaying/Neutering should be the law, as other posters have said there are too many dogs being put down, especially after people realise how financial and time consuming it is to have even a small dog.

Ghost Buster

kneemos wrote: »

Is it cruel to do this to our pets?
I know it reduces strays and unwanted pets but is it mutilation for the sake of convenience?I'd be in two minds myself,however I think it's Switzerland that don't allow it so obviously it's not universally accepted.

Seeing as you used the word 'mutilation' for what is a minuscule procedure for dogs and only slightly more involved for bitches I reckon your minds made up.

Ghost Buster

kneemos wrote: »

Is it cruel to do this to our pets?
I know it reduces strays and unwanted pets but is it mutilation for the sake of convenience?I'd be in two minds myself,however I think it's Switzerland that don't allow it so obviously it's not universally accepted.

Seeing as you used the word 'mutilation' for what is a minuscule procedure for dogs and only slightly more involved for bitches I reckon your minds made up.

edword

i think its often unfair on the animals and serves as nothing more than a get out of jail card for owners who cant make up their minds. we did a lot of research when we got our 2 male dogs, but we were convinced male dogs were what we wanted. we didnt think it would be fair to get them neutered after theyd lived the first 6 months being treated as males. it would have been cruel for us to suddenly decide we wanted female dogs when we could have made that decision before we got them. there needs to be a bit more regulation on this because people are going into vets willy nilly without much consideration for their so called much loved pets.

LadyAthame

kneemos wrote: »

Is it cruel to do this to our pets?
I know it reduces strays and unwanted pets but is it mutilation for the sake of convenience?I'd be in two minds myself,however I think it's Switzerland that don't allow it so obviously it's not universally accepted.

You have to way up the advantages and disadvantages.
Unplanned breeding is cruel.

For TomCats we had one that came un-nuetered he wandered and got run over but survived. Tom cats mostly die or are injured when wandering they go missing for days.

My ex had a female cat that was only a kitten herself when she got pregnant and didn't know how to look after the kitten as a young mum she would not let it nurse.

Also cats have not figured out how to use condoms and feline aids is rampant right now.

When cats go into heat they attract every Tom in Town and they fight.

Dogs in heat can't really be taken for walks when they are ..... it's a gang bang in the park if you do..... they will also have phantom pregnancies which are complicated.

It reduces aggression. But then so can training.

It's tough to totally prevent unwanted pregnancies in dogs.

But there are some downsides ...it has to be done at the right age or there can be complications if done too early.

By the way Switzerland does allow neutering.

It's Norway that doesn't. But it's allowed it's just not allowed willy nilly ..boom boom..it's done on a case by case basis The government has stipulated there that the neutering of dogs is permitted when mandated by utility, or if it helps give the dog a justifiable quality of life, including social contact with other dogs.

But they have way stricter laws on breeding and sentences to support animal welfare we don't.
Ask you vet what is right for your pet.

We thought about it for ours ..but he had health issues with one testicle since a puppy and we had to anyway.

You need professional advice I know different breeds have different needs.

blackbird 49

edword wrote: »

i think its often unfair on the animals and serves as nothing more than a get out of jail card for owners who cant make up their minds. we did a lot of research when we got our 2 male dogs, but we were convinced male dogs were what we wanted. we didnt think it would be fair to get them neutered after theyd lived the first 6 months being treated as males. it would have been cruel for us to suddenly decide we wanted female dogs when we could have made that decision before we got them. there needs to be a bit more regulation on this because people are going into vets willy nilly without much consideration for their so called much loved pets.

My husband got the snip a few years back, does that make him not a male😄

LadyAthame

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Seeing as you used the word 'mutilation' for what is a minuscule procedure for dogs and only slightly more involved for bitches I reckon your minds made up.

It actually depends on the breeds hip displacement is common on some dogs both males and females for some breeds after.

Ask you vet. If it's needed it's needed...otherwise just do what you feel is best.

Junkyard Tom

edword wrote: »

we didnt think it would be fair to get them neutered after theyd lived the first 6 months being treated as males. it would have been cruel for us to suddenly decide we wanted female dogs when we could have made that decision before we got them.

When a male dog is neutered it suddenly becomes female so then you have to get them spayed to stop them having puppies.

Ghost Buster

edword wrote: »

i think its often unfair on the animals and serves as nothing more than a get out of jail card for owners who cant make up their minds. we did a lot of research when we got our 2 male dogs, but we were convinced male dogs were what we wanted. we didnt think it would be fair to get them neutered after theyd lived the first 6 months being treated as males. it would have been cruel for us to suddenly decide we wanted female dogs when we could have made that decision before we got them. there needs to be a bit more regulation on this because people are going into vets willy nilly without much consideration for their so called much loved pets.

So have I been a woman for the three years since my vasectomy? I can't fathom your post at all.

bpmurray

kneemos wrote: »

Is it cruel to do this to our pets?
I know it reduces strays and unwanted pets but is it mutilation for the sake of convenience?I'd be in two minds myself,however I think it's Switzerland that don't allow it so obviously it's not universally accepted.

Note that it's Norway that uniquely forbids neutering, not Switzerland. And it's not mutilation although you could argue that it's for our convenience.

However, neutered animals live longer and have reduced chances of getting various cancers. Of course, neutered male dogs are much less likely to fight, so Norway has a relatively high incidence of dogs injured by other dogs.

If Irish people were able to manage their dogs, and puppy farms didn't exist, we could go down the Norwegian route. That's not the case, so I think mandatory neutering is actually a good idea here.

UCDVet

kneemos wrote: »

Is it cruel to do this to our pets?
I know it reduces strays and unwanted pets but is it mutilation for the sake of convenience?I'd be in two minds myself,however I think it's Switzerland that don't allow it so obviously it's not universally accepted.

I think it's best to accept that we live in an imperfect world, and have to make imperfect choices.

There are a lot of benefits behind neutering/spaying pets, even ignoring the obvious unwanted offspring. Neutered/spayed animals are far less aggressive, far less likely to run away, less territorial, less likely to mark in the house, less likely hump legs or furniture.

Is it convenient for the pet owner? Absolutely. Is it fair for the pet? Maybe not.....but let's face it, we've destroyed any sort of natural life that these animals could have had. Evolution prepared them with instincts they need to survive in a very different environment than we've created for them. I'd argue it's far more inhumane to keep them intact, and then prevent them from acting on their natural urges (which you need to do as a decent pet owner).

There are also quite a few medical benefits too. Enough that, even ignoring the non-medical benefits you could make a reasonable argument for it.

Still, comparing the life of a pet to the life of a wild dog or cat is tricky. If I were an animal, I'd rather be a pet. We have a romanticized notion of what the animal kingdom is like without human intervention. It's harsh and brutal, a quick medical procedure is a small price to pay.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a vet and I don't know much about animals.

murpho999

Not neutering cats and dogs and allow them to create homeless animals that will lead miserable lives and eventually be put down is more cruel.

Neutering is a simple process that has no negative impact on the animal at all, as they just lose their sexual urges and don't miss it.

All pet owners should do it.

Banjo String

My lovely one year old bitch has just went through her first cycle of 'heat'.

I have her pencilled in to be 'doctored' at the end of next month.

The way I see it is unless you're planning on breeding your pet, and subsequently half rearing her litter of pups with her (and the sadness involved in seeing them depart your home) it's a very sensible idea.

I'd not be interested in neutering a dog though. Just keep him on a lead, he would need to be a clever dog to sneak out at night and go on a riding spree.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

My family pet growing up was a little terrier who was herself a product of irresponsible neutering practices (two unfixed, closely related dogs who ended up pro-creating) and has had bad health consequences for her whole life. My parents got caught on the hop with her coming on heat before they expected and she got impregnated by a collie, had a painful miscarriage because she was too small and too young to be able for that pregnancy.

My neighbours never fixed their cats, ended up with several generations of increasingly inbred kittens (with the increasingly horrible physical conditions) getting killed by one old tom so he could have another go on his sisters/nieces/granddaughters etc.

Fix your goddamn animals for god's sake. They're not people.

Cold War Kid

kneemos wrote: »

Is it cruel to do this to our pets?
I know it reduces strays and unwanted pets but is it mutilation for the sake of convenience?

It reduces strays and unwanted pets. There's much more to that than just wanting convenience. It doesn't inconvenience me or many others that there are strays leading miserable lives, just about surviving. It inconveniences them though.

edword wrote: »

i think its often unfair on the animals and serves as nothing more than a get out of jail card for owners who cant make up their minds. we did a lot of research when we got our 2 male dogs, but we were convinced male dogs were what we wanted. we didnt think it would be fair to get them neutered after theyd lived the first 6 months being treated as males. it would have been cruel for us to suddenly decide we wanted female dogs when we could have made that decision before we got them. there needs to be a bit more regulation on this because people are going into vets willy nilly without much consideration for their so called much loved pets.

wtf.

Anyway, on an individual basis it is a bit cruel to the animal - male in particular - to make such a drastic change to their anatomy. As far as I know, the female doesn't lose her sex drive if neutered. A female cat we had when I was a teenager was still ridin' away like billy-o :pac: after the job was done on her when she was about six months.

The key, I assume, is to get it done as soon as possible. It's not a nice thing to have to do (I remember my brothers going nuts at my mother for getting a tom cat we had snipped - but he was constantly disappearing for days and returning with chunks out of him, sometimes very badly injured) but it's a necessary evil - it's certainly not nice to leave dogs and cats reproduce dozens of babies and for them to grow up unwanted, starving, vulnerable and ill due to inbreeding.

bodice ripper

Yeah, its always about the loss of maleness. Its like someone is projecting. ..

Adamantium

I love my cat, we've a great relationship, I said this the other week before I sent it away to the vet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emaIMqHpEIk

Mozzeltoff

Magnus Microscopic Whisk wrote: »

My neighbours never fixed their cats, ended up with several generations of increasingly inbred kittens (with the increasingly horrible physical conditions) getting killed by one old tom so he could have another go on his sisters/nieces/granddaughters etc.

Fix your goddamn animals for god's sake. They're not people.

An aunt and uncle of my OH have pretty much the same situation with their cats. They have two "mother" cats who seem to be in a constant state of pregnancy. The father of these litters is a son/brother/grandson of the female cats. Their attitude is like this: "They're cats, they'll **** off in their own time!"

Again they have had several and several generations of inbred cats roaming around their yard. Last year I ended up taking two kittens from them. I took them to the vet to get them checked over but sure one of them had to be put to sleep because of a respiratory complication due to inbreeding.

The other one, I still have and while there's nothing wrong with her physically, her mental health leaves a lot to be desired. She makes the animals on "My cat from Hell" look like teddy bears. She's on high alert all the time, stressed out 99% of the time, constantly skittish and doesn't trust people at all and she'll attack you unprovoked. I have looked into it and she suffers anxiety apparently but that's due to the fact that her father is her uncle and her mother is her sister.

Despite all that I do love this cat however she is living testament of the stupidity and lax attitude people have when it comes to fixing their animals.

R.D. aka MR.D

I'm glad that someone has mentioned the inbreeding problem. Is it better to have these inbreed animals die slowly because of their deformities?

I would advise any pet owner who is against spaying/castrating to go and speak to an animal health professional. They can explain the process and the benefits or drawbacks to you.

I used to work in a veterinary practice and you wouldn't believe how many myths exist about the procedures and animal health. Think about how many more new things we know about the human body and disease prevention since the 40's/50's. Those advancements have been happening in animal medicine, too.

Don't keep yourself ignorant on purpose. Learn about what you can do to give your pet ,and the animal population as whole, a better life.

Discodog

Some people have a strange attitude to neutering. I know a couple that are both teachers, so hardly ignorant, but they won't neuter their cats. According to them it's not natural :mad:

I would always neuter a female dog, preferably before her first season as it significantly reduces her chance of breast cancer in later life. There are less health benefits for male dogs & neutering them too early can cause serious problems. Neutering is a critical issue in Ireland because we allow our dogs to stray & too many people think that it's good to let a bitch have a litter of puppies.

The only way to reduce the thousands of dogs being killed every year is to stop producing more & to persuade people to take a rescue dog rather than buying one.

Shrap

My house is at an all time low of 2 cats, mainly because I talked the next door farmer into catching and neutering his feral cats. When my kids were small, they'd come running back with yet another half starved kitten, usually with severe health problems and destined not to last very long.

My two at the moment are a bit messed up. The ginger (found on the side of the road in a deplorable state - eyes swollen and puss filled, respiratory problems, flu) has early arthritis and constant ear problems. Now deaf as a post, but still brings rats home fair play to him. The black/white one is by far the stupidest creature I ever met and he was brought in with his back legs not working due to some virus or inbreeding problem. Walks around meeowing full time, which could be an over-active thyroid thing. His mother was only a kitten when she got pregnant and had her five kittens in the barn next door. I homed them all and got her neutered so she could have a bit of a life.

Not neutering is the height of stupidity and cruelty. Kittens left to die on the road, from starvation and disease. Nice :mad:

murpho999

Discodog wrote: »

Some people have a strange attitude to neutering. I know a couple that are both teachers, so hardly ignorant, but they won't neuter their cats. According to them it's not natural :mad:

I would always neuter a female dog, preferably before her first season as it significantly reduces her chance of breast cancer in later life. There are less health benefits for male dogs & neutering them too early can cause serious problems. Neutering is a critical issue in Ireland because we allow our dogs to stray & too many people think that it's good to let a bitch have a litter of puppies.

The only way to reduce the thousands of dogs being killed every year is to stop producing more & to persuade people to take a rescue dog rather than buying one.

That attitude drives me mad. Having animals domesticated and living in your home is not natural either but people and animals adapted.

kylith

Banjo String wrote: »

I'd not be interested in neutering a dog though. Just keep him on a lead, he would need to be a clever dog to sneak out at night and go on a riding spree.

I've seen a dog (terrier) scale a 6 foot wall to get to a bitch in heat. I know of more than one litter fathered through a fence. Dogs have gone through windows to get to a bitch.

Neuter your dog. Seriously, he won't miss anything. If anything he'll be a lot less stressed. Imagine being surrounded by sexy, willing ladies and never, ever being able to touch them. That's what entire males have to cope with every day of their lives.

ohnonotgmail

edword wrote: »

i think its often unfair on the animals and serves as nothing more than a get out of jail card for owners who cant make up their minds. we did a lot of research when we got our 2 male dogs, but we were convinced male dogs were what we wanted. we didnt think it would be fair to get them neutered after theyd lived the first 6 months being treated as males. it would have been cruel for us to suddenly decide we wanted female dogs when we could have made that decision before we got them. there needs to be a bit more regulation on this because people are going into vets willy nilly without much consideration for their so called much loved pets.

you do realise that neutering a male dog doesnt make it female, right?

Fratton Fred

I hadn't even thought about it until my dog had her "period".

That's it, I thought, I'm not buying you chocolate, paracetamol and hello magazine, you're getting the op.

Trudiha

My loyal, beautiful, silly and delightfully gentle dog was put to sleep because of agressive, painful bone cancer, just before Christmas as a result of getting the chop too early.

Of course we can't have unfettered breeding of dogs but I also think that all dog owners have a responsibility to inform themselves of exactly what they are doing and to think very carefully about keeping their dogs intact until their long bones have reached maturity.

My six month old, 35kg puppy is keeping his bits until he has finished growing.

Why not just dress them very unsexily?

Aglomerado

LadyAthame wrote: »

Also cats have not figured out how to use condoms and feline aids is rampant right now.

Even if they had, the claws wouldn't help matters!

folamh

Trudiha wrote: »

My loyal, beautiful, silly and delightfully gentle dog was put to sleep because of agressive, painful bone cancer, just before Christmas as a result of getting the chop too early.

That's awful. How old was he when you got him neutered?

Fluorescence

Besides preventing unwanted litters, there are so so so so so so many medical benefits to spaying/castrating your pet! We're talking huge benefits here: your female cat or dog is 99% less likely to develop mammary cancers if spayed before her first heat, and 95% if before her second. Pyometra (where the uterus fills with pus, causing incredible pain and likely death if not discovered in time) is also sadly very very common in whole female dogs in particular, and is completely avoidable if you have her spayed.

With males, castration reduces unwanted behaviours like straying, spraying, aggression, fights and humping everything in sight :pac: . They'll drastically reduce their chances of developing prostate problems, and the possibility of developing testicular cancer is eliminated entirely. It'll also prevent them getting STDs and fathering unwanted animals.

There's a myth that neutering your pet will change its personality. It won't. If you have outdoor cats in this country, you are morally obliged to have them neutered. The feral cat population is out of control.