How much money does a person need to earn to be considered "filthy rich"?

Inspector Coptoor

The figure of €100k is bandied around all the time.

5% or 103,000 people of the county's 2.1M tax base earn over this "magical" figure that some politicians are so keen to introduce another rate of tax, never mind the fact that we are already in the situation that 1% of our tax base pay 21% or the tax take.

My own views on it are that €100k for a single person is quite a lot of money without being an outrageous sum of money once all tax has been paid.

I'd be in favour of introducing a third rate of tax, of around 45% which would kick in at around €80k as the middle earners in this country are really being squeezed paying the higher rate of tax once they reach the low threshold of €33,800

This three tier and progressive tax system would look like this

>50k @20% tax
50k-80k @ 40%
> 80K @ 45%

Thoughts?

kneemos

Low earners should be taxed more as an incentive to work harder.

Stheno

People on over 70k pay more usc as it is

jimgoose

Largely agreed, except I'd have the middle rate for 50-80k at 35%.

The_Valeyard

I always thought filthy rich was an absolute extraordinary amount of wealth like a Euro Millions jackpot winner.

The Backwards Man

If you're not cute enough to convince the revenue you're not making any money they should take the lot off you.

pwurple

I think if you spend money as fast as you earn it... then you're not rich at all.
Only rich if you've a big pot of wealth somewhere waiting to be spent.

Earning doesn't matter a whit. You can earn 15k, bank the lot because you live with your parents, and be a whole lot richer than someone on 100k, who spends every red cent of it and saves zilch.

jimgoose

kneemos wrote: »

Low earners should be taxed more as an incentive to work harder.

The PAYE tax-credit is pretty close to the standard rate tax payable on minimum wage as it is, interfering with that end of it would be only scraping around for fivers and tenners.

smash

Filthy rich is when you drop a €500 note and you make more back in interest by the time you pick it up off the ground.

awec

45% on 80k?

My goodness. :pac:

Filthy rich to me is someone making millions per year.

100k before tax is not even on the same planet as filthy rich, its not even an exceptionally high wage.

On another note the mere suggestion of taxing high earners more than they already are is disgusting. They already pay far far more than their fair share, basically they are punished for being successful.

At least things like the water charges hit everyone which is a very good argument for having them as a charge rather than taking it from general taxation.

Duggy747

Anything more than me

jimgoose

Tate Tangy Muck wrote: »

...On another note the mere suggestion of taxing high earners more it's disgusting. They already pay far far more than their fair share, basically they are punished for being sucessful.

You should see the cold sweats and soul-searching that goes on as poeple approach the marginal rate cut-off due to overtime, promotion, etc. :pac:

frozenfrozen

how about if tax money was spent 10% more efficiently

qb123

We already have an effective third rate of tax. A single earner on over €70k pays a marginal rate of 52%. OECD statistics bear out that we have the most aggressively progressive tax system in the developed world and that it is in fact middle income earners (say €40k - €80k) who are relatively undertaxed taking into account all allowances etc.

pwurple

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

This three tier and progressive tax system would look like this

>50k @20% tax
50k-80k @ 40%
> 80K @ 45%

Thoughts?

Which of these bands do you fit in yourself, out of interest?

Goshen

Dudes I work with earning £50 (GBP) per hour. Expense most expenditure (travel, food, accommodation, entertainment associated with work). Filthy rich.

jimgoose

jimgoose wrote: »

You should see the cold sweats and soul-searching that goes on as poeple approach the marginal rate cut-off due to overtime, promotion, etc. :pac:

It's pretty damn annoying when you see 51% of your money being taken though. You don't notice it as much in your salary but I'm doing some extra work on the side which is paid separately and am paid an hourly rate but I'm basically working for half the hourly rate due to 51% of every cent I get going in tax.

Goshen

translates to £130k per annum. Nice tidy little sum. Take in the expenses, take out tax, and they take home approx. 2k per week.

Inspector Coptoor

pwurple wrote: »

Which of these bands do you fit in yourself, out of interest?

I earn somewhere between €60-65k depending on contract work.

smash

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

>50k @20% tax
50k-80k @ 40%
> 80K @ 45%

Thoughts?

So after your tax system:
49k = 39,200
70k = 42,000
85k = 46,750

or:
49k = 39,200
50k = 30,000
80k = 44,000

Well that's just shit now in fairness.

valoren

For me, anyone who can sustain their current lifestyle from the interest they earn on their money, then they are rich.

Anyone who can do that, but from the interest on the interest of the money, then that's filthy rich

Ush1

Tate Tangy Muck wrote: »

It's pretty damn annoying when you see 51% of your money being taken though. You don't notice it as much in your salary but I'm doing some extra work on the side which is paid separately and am paid an hourly rate but I'm basically working for half the hourly rate due to 51% of every cent I get going in tax.

Do you avail of tax in anyway? Grants or public sector worker?

jimgoose

qb123 wrote: »

We already have an effective third rate of tax. A single earner on over €70k pays a marginal rate of 52%. OECD statistics bear out that we have the most aggressively progressive tax system in the developed world and that it is in fact middle income earners (say €40k - €80k) who are relatively undertaxed taking into account all allowances etc.

Aside from the PAYE credit most middle-income earners don't really have much in the way of allowances. As you approach the figure of €80k p.a. the percentage of PAYE+PRSI+USC out of total income is about 35%, or a little above.

Inspector Coptoor

smash wrote: »

So after your tax system:
49k = 39,200
70k = 42,000
85k = 46,750

or:
49k = 39,200
50k = 30,000
80k = 44,000

Well that's just shit now in fairness.

I'm not taking into account USC and PRSI but under that model

€50k Warner would pay €10k tax so €40k after tax

€70k would pay €10k tax on first €50k & €8k tax on remaining €20k at 2nd rate so total tax I'll if €18k so €52k after tax

€85k Warner would pay €10k on first €50k, €12 on next 30k and €2.25k on last €5k for a total tax bill of €24.25k or 60.5k after tax.

jimgoose

smash wrote: »

So after your tax system:
49k = 39,200
70k = 42,000
85k = 46,750

or:
49k = 39,200
50k = 30,000
80k = 44,000

Well that's just shit now in fairness.

I assume he's talking about a band-based system similar to the current one, only with different tiers and rates.

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

Do you avail of tax in anyway? Grants or public sector worker?

All my income is from public sector sources but that's totally irrelevant. 51% of gross being taken is a travesty.

jimgoose

Tate Tangy Muck wrote: »

It's pretty damn annoying when you see 51% of your money being taken though. You don't notice it as much in your salary but I'm doing some extra work on the side which is paid separately and am paid an hourly rate but I'm basically working for half the hourly rate due to 51% of every cent I get going in tax.

Yes, that is absolute arse-biscuits. You can't beat a setup like that for killing any bit of gumption that might be around the place. :pac:

Ush1

Tate Tangy Muck wrote: »

All my income is from public sector sources but that's totally irrelevant. 51% of gross being taken is a travesty.

Why is it totally irrelevant? How much tax is going on a bloated and overpaid public sector?

Stheno

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I'm not taking into account USC and PRSI but under that model

€50k Warner would pay €10k tax so €40k after tax

€70k would pay €10k tax on first €50k & €8k tax on remaining €20k at 2nd rate so total tax I'll if €18k so €52k after tax

€85k Warner would pay €10k on first €50k, €12 on next 30k and €2.25k on last €5k for a total tax bill of €24.25k or 60.5k after tax.

You need to include prsi and usc as they have a fairly dramatic effect going up the scales

jimgoose

Ush1 wrote: »

Why is it totally irrelevant? How much tax is going on a bloated and overpaid public sector?

Ophuphuxache, do we have to do the usual "Us and Them!!" thing just now? Can we not just have a thread about tax, which is much the same for everybody? :pac:

smash

jimgoose wrote: »

I assume he's talking about a band-based system similar to the current one, only with different tiers and rates.

Yea but I like to be dramatic

Somebody with no mortgage or other debts, who takes in 2-3k plus of passive income per week I would classify as rich.

Somebody who takes in 2-3k plus per week from working harder than they would prefer to be working, and who hasn't yet paid off their mortgage and has other debts, and who has to worry about the day to day realities of their, probably, high responsibility job, I would consider to have a high income but not be rich in the way I normally imagine rich people.

Ush1

jimgoose wrote: »

Ophuphuxache, do we have to do the usual "Us and Them!!" thing just now? Can we not just have a thread about tax, which is much the same for everybody? :pac:

The subject of taxation is always us and them unfortunately.

You'll either be a higher earner complaining of being taxed too much, or a lower earner complaining of not having good enough public funded services so the higher earners should pay more.

Somebody with no mortgage or other debts, who takes in 2-3k plus of passive income per week I would classify as rich.

Somebody who takes in 2-3k plus per week from working harder than they would prefer to be working, and who hasn't yet paid off their mortgage and has other debts, and who has to worry about the day to day realities of their, probably, high responsibility job, I would consider to have a high income but not be rich in the way I normally imagine rich people.

Obviously it's a gradual scale from rich to filthy rich, but I'd consider 10k plus per week, however one earns/acquires it, to be definitely filthy rich!

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

Why is it totally irrelevant? How much tax is going on a bloated and overpaid public sector?

It's irrelevant because it's an attempt by you to bash the public sector. Sure I should be working for minimum wage in your eyes and kissing the feet of private sector workers. I'm as entitled to complain about the amount of tax as any private sector worker.

Over paid? Most people in the public sector are underpaid, particularly in the areas of education and healthcare, after cuts in recent years it's even worse. Thankfully there is now a move for increases again.

Why does any thread where money gets mentioned get dragged into this debate by private sector workers looking to cause trouble.

Ush1

Tate Tangy Muck wrote: »

It's irrelevant because it's an attempt by you to bash the public sector. Sure I should be working for minimum wage in your eyes and kissing the feet of private sector workers. I'm as entitled to complain about the amount of tax as any private sector worker.

Over paid? Most people in the public sector are underpaid, particularly in the areas of education and healthcare, after cuts in recent years it's even worse. Thankfully there is now a move for increases again.

Why does any thread where money gets mentioned get dragged into this debate by private sector workers looking to cause trouble.

I know there is a huge amount of waste in the public sector, many of my close family work in it and acknowledge it themselves. I have also worked on many public sector projects and seen the wastefulness first hand.

So you're arguing for better pay for public sector workers, while wanting less taxation?

ohnonotgmail

If you are paying PAYE then you are not "filthy rich".

Infini

Cant really call yourself filthy rich unless your making more than a Grand a week AFTER tax+expenses.

ohnonotgmail

Infini2 wrote: »

Cant really call yourself filthy rich unless your making more than a Grand a week AFTER tax+expenses.

that would be slightly dirty at best.

Reindeer

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I always thought filthy rich was an absolute extraordinary amount of wealth like a Euro Millions jackpot winner.

I know several folks worth millions. Of them, the only one I would call 'filthy rich' as in 'money is zero object' is worth nearly 40 mil. I over bill him a lot...a whole lot

Saipanne

I suppose I'm in the filthy rich definition, as defined above.

Poor paupers...

ohnonotgmail

Saipanne wrote: »

I suppose I'm in the filthy rich definition, as defined above.

Poor paupers...

which definition though?

Saipanne

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

which definition though?

The 100k one.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Infini2 wrote: »

Cant really call yourself filthy rich unless your making more than a Grand a week AFTER tax+expenses.

That's far from filthy rich. That's just reasonably affluent with good savings mentality

walkingshadow

€74.16

ohnonotgmail

Saipanne wrote: »

The 100k one.

hi buddy, how are ye?

Saipanne

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

hi buddy, how are ye?

I'm not your buddy, guy.

ohnonotgmail

Saipanne wrote: »

I'm not your buddy, guy.

you filthy rich people are no fun at all.

Mint Aero

Saipanne wrote: »

I'm not your buddy, guy.

He's not your guy, friend.

chakotha

When you pay to fly first class everywhere you're filthy rich.