Sale agreed a long time ago - waiting for contracts from vendors solicitor

Rackstar

Went sale agreed 7 weeks ago. My solicitor hasn't received contracts from vendors solicitor despite writing to the solicitor asking why they hadn't been sent.

I don't mind how long it takes as long as the sale goes through as it gives me a chance to get cash together. Should I be concerned though?

No banks involved and vendor isn't in a chain.

Millem

Rackstar wrote: »

Went sale agreed 7 weeks ago. My solicitor hasn't received contracts from vendors solicitor despite writing to the solicitor asking why they hadn't been sent.

I don't mind how long it takes as long as the sale goes through as it gives me a chance to get cash together. Should I be concerned though?

No banks involved and vendor isn't in a chain.

As in pre-contracts? That is very long, what are they waiting for? We went sale agreed on tues and had pre contracts on the friday! Which is very quick but we are under time pressure!!

Rackstar

Millem wrote: »

As in pre-contracts? That is very long, what are they waiting for? We went sale agreed on tues and had pre contracts on the friday! Which is very quick but we are under time pressure!!

Have paid booking deposit to the EA. EA wrote to both solicitors informing them of sale. My solicitor heard nothing from the vendors solicitor so wrote to her, hasn't heard anything back and that's as far as it's got.

Millem

Rackstar wrote: »

Have paid booking deposit to the EA. EA wrote to both solicitors informing them of sale. My solicitor heard nothing from the vendors solicitor so wrote to her, hasn't heard anything back and that's as far as it's got.

Oh gosh! That happened to us with the first house we were sale agreed on. My solictor tried to get in contact with them by phone, email and post....all adding to my legal fees it was a disaster that we ended up pulling out! I wonder if they are trying to negotiate with their bank?

TheDriver

It can take up to 4 weeks if deeds etc must be got from bank but vendors solicitor would usually communicate this.

Nekarsulm

Go visit their office. Politely ask to speak with someone who can explain the lack of communication and delay.
Worst case scenario, they will say something like " I will only correspond with another registered solicitor" To which you can reply "you aren't even doing that"
Somebody is either playing silly buggers, or the entire file is lost and they won't admit it.
Mind you , some Solicitors took two weeks abroad over Easter......

zagmund

The only thing I can say is that this comes up regularly on this forum. What purchasers consider "sale agreed" to be and what solicitors and EAs consider it to be are two entirely different things.

Unfortunately it's neither a "sale" nor is it "agreed". Not even slightly. It's not even a spit on the hand and a shake at the fair. It's nothing. As you are finding out, if the two solicitors can't even exchange documents then you are no further along than before you were sale agreed. What I don't get is how come solicitors in these situations don't get back after a week and lay it out like it is - "this other solicitor is messing around, won't even reply to me, etc . . . I think you should be alert to the possibility of a problem"

Or how come the EA doesn't have any sort of, you know, professionalism and tell their client to get off the fence and move the sale along. They offered something for sale, they agreed to sell it, and now they're not selling it.

z

campingcarist

zagmund wrote: »

The only thing I can say is that this comes up regularly on this forum. What purchasers consider "sale agreed" to be and what solicitors and EAs consider it to be are two entirely different things.

Unfortunately it's neither a "sale" nor is it "agreed". Not even slightly. It's not even a spit on the hand and a shake at the fair. It's nothing. As you are finding out, if the two solicitors can't even exchange documents then you are no further along than before you were sale agreed. What I don't get is how come solicitors in these situations don't get back after a week and lay it out like it is - "this other solicitor is messing around, won't even reply to me, etc . . . I think you should be alert to the possibility of a problem"

Or how come the EA doesn't have any sort of, you know, professionalism and tell their client to get off the fence and move the sale along. They offered something for sale, they agreed to sell it, and now they're not selling it.

z

This seems to happen all too often. I recently enquired about a property only to be told by the EA that it wasn't actually for sale at present as there were issues but that the vendor insisted that the property was left up on the websites as for sale. This is very irritating for purchasers.

These properties are not actually for sale at present but help to distort the number of properties for sale statistics.

Bottlescrew

The property is now technically 'Sale Agreed' as the deposit has been paid and EA letters have issued. This should mean that the sign has been changed to sale agreed to inform the market that there is no point in putting in any bids, and the agent does not advertise it, or take any further bids as the vendor is dealing solely with your offer. They may however, take names of interested parties, in case your sale falls through.

There is the possibility that the vendor left it until the property was sale agreed before informing the solicitor. People don't realise that there is a load of stuff to be done and documents to be got, before contracts can be issued, e.g. it is at this point that people realise they did not pay LPT etc.

Go to the agent and tell them that you need to know what is happening with the contracts. The agent will also want to know, as they will be wary of sales falling through. Request that the agent contacts the vendor, and asks the vendor to check what the status of the contracts is with their solicitor and that they come back to you with an answer. If they are serious about selling, they will want to keep you satisfied.

Don't appear desperate, you have choices, your are in an excellent purchasing position with no banks and no chain.

zagmund

Bottlescrew wrote: »

If they are serious about selling,

This is the thing though . . . if they aren't serious about selling why waste everyones time? Why doesn't the EA contract have a clause along the lines of "if you go 'sale agreed' with a purchaser we have introduced and you don't close then you owe us 10 grandingtons" or something.

z

Uno my Uno.

OP get on to the Estate Agent (or get your solicitor to get on to them) and ask them in forceful terms what the hell is going on. Explain that you aren't prepare to wait indefinitely without any indication of what is happening. The Agent is in a position to speak to the Seller and then get back to you, this is often effective in cases where there are holdups such as this.

7 weeks without so much as a letter from the seller's Solicitor is outrageous and a terrible professional discourtesy.

Uno my Uno.

zagmund wrote: »

The only thing I can say is that this comes up regularly on this forum. What purchasers consider "sale agreed" to be and what solicitors and EAs consider it to be are two entirely different things.

Unfortunately it's neither a "sale" nor is it "agreed". Not even slightly. It's not even a spit on the hand and a shake at the fair. It's nothing. As you are finding out, if the two solicitors can't even exchange documents then you are no further along than before you were sale agreed. What I don't get is how come solicitors in these situations don't get back after a week and lay it out like it is - "this other solicitor is messing around, won't even reply to me, etc . . . I think you should be alert to the possibility of a problem"

Or how come the EA doesn't have any sort of, you know, professionalism and tell their client to get off the fence and move the sale along. They offered something for sale, they agreed to sell it, and now they're not selling it.

z

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Go visit their office. Politely ask to speak with someone who can explain the lack of communication and delay.
Worst case scenario, they will say something like " I will only correspond with another registered solicitor" To which you can reply "you aren't even doing that"
Somebody is either playing silly buggers, or the entire file is lost and they won't admit it.
Mind you , some Solicitors took two weeks abroad over Easter......

Ignore both of these posts, both total rubbish.

zagmund

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

Ignore both of these posts, both total rubbish.

Have you got any actual advice to offer the OP? Maybe "use the force" or something? Or any explanation as to why you think they are rubbish?

z

thewing

Patience - went sale agreed first week in Jan and still haven't got the keys

Bottlescrew

thewing wrote: »

Patience - went sale agreed first week in Jan and still haven't got the keys

When did you sign sign the contracts?

Uno my Uno.

zagmund wrote: »

Have you got any actual advice to offer the OP? Maybe "use the force" or something? Or any explanation as to why you think they are rubbish?

z

I gave the OP some practical advice (something I notice you have failed to do) in the first of my two previous posts, which you may have missed. No Jedi mind tricks required.

Your rant on the meaning of "sale agreed" is neither original or correct. At this point in the conveyancing process the sale is very much agreed it just isn't enforceable. Once the contracts are signed and exchanged the sale is enforceable. Whilst being sale agreed can sometimes be an uncertain position it is not at all correct to say that nothing is agreed.

Your further (rather generalised) remarks on the professionalism of Solicitors and Estate Agents may be popular but they are not illuminating. A week is a short time in conveyancing, particularly at this stage, a Solicitor could not reasonably anticipate any problems with a transaction a mere week after going sale agreed so there would be no benefit to "laying it all out" to a client when there is nothing to lay out. Seven weeks is an inordinate delay and maybe the OP's Solicitor isn't doing a great job communicating with the OP but form the sounds of things there isn't much to communicate. if the OP isn't happy they can always instruct another Solicitor to act for them.

Whilst Estate Agents often behave in ways that most of us would consider unprofessional it is not for an EA to tell a Client how to proceed or to "move the sale along", nor would it be professional of them to do. An EA acts according to his instructions and may offer advice but they do not tell sellers what to do.

I would surmise that your experience of dealing with property is limited or based on a misunderstanding of the process and people's roles within it. Either way your post amounted to little more than blarney,

Nekarsulm

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

Ignore both of these posts, both total rubbish.

Uno my Uno,
So the person hoping to purchase the property should be a good little boy and keep quiet?
7 weeks without communication from the vendors solicitor indicates something very amiss.

OP, don't be surprised to find out that the vendor is not the legal owner yet, or its still in their Grandfather's name or something.
Or their Solicitor is going through some turmoil of their own.

Uno my Uno.

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Uno my Uno,
So the person hoping to purchase the property should be a good little boy and keep quiet?
7 weeks without communication from the vendors solicitor indicates something very amiss.

OP, don't be surprised to find out that the vendor is not the legal owner yet, or its still in their Grandfather's name or something.
Or their Solicitor is going through some turmoil of their own.

I didn't say that at all, you may have missed my initial post where I suggested they contact the Estate Agent.

You suggested the OP go to the offices of the seller's Solicitor. This would be an absolute waste of time, As you yourself pointed out, the Solicitor won't speak to the OP only their Solicitor. I have no idea what you think could be achieved if the OP were to follow your advice.

zagmund

According to your own post, the EA acts according to instructions, and they presumably only do this from the people who pay them. The purchaser doesn't pay the EA, the vendor does. Would the purchaser now be wasting their time doing that also? What's the difference between advising them to go to the EA who doesn't work for them and going to the solicitor who also doesn't work for them?

z

Nekarsulm

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

I didn't say that at all, you may have missed my initial post where I suggested they contact the Estate Agent.

You suggested the OP go to the offices of the seller's Solicitor. This would be an absolute waste of time, As you yourself pointed out, the Solicitor won't speak to the OP only their Solicitor. I have no idea what you think could be achieved if the OP were to follow your advice.

But Uno my Uno,
If the vendors Solicitor will not respond to the purchasers Solicitor, and the vendors Estate Agent will not/can not advance the situation, what is to be lost from trying?

Quote "7 weeks without so much as a letter from the seller's Solicitor is outrageous and a terrible professional discourtesy" Quote.
You are of course correct. I missed reading this somehow.

Although a visit to the vendors solicitors office can be illuminating sometimes. I had to visit my own Solicitors office to chase up something, and found the staff trying to sort out files, which were spread out all over the office floor.
Unsurprisingly, a letter arrived in the post within two weeks announcing that another firm had taken over all his responsibilities.
He was last heard of in Australia..........

Uno my Uno.

zagmund wrote: »

According to your own post, the EA acts according to instructions, and they presumably only do this from the people who pay them. The purchaser doesn't pay the EA, the vendor does. Would the purchaser now be wasting their time doing that also? What's the difference between advising them to go to the EA who doesn't work for them and going to the solicitor who also doesn't work for them?

z

The EA will talk to them whereas the Solicitor won't.

The Purchaser/OP won't be giving instructions to the EA only making enquirers as to what is going on so no conflict arises. My experience is that this can often get things moving or resolve an issue. It might not work here but I think it would be the best way to proceed at this point.

Uno my Uno.

Nekarsulm wrote: »

But Uno my Uno,
If the vendors Solicitor will not respond to the purchasers Solicitor, and the vendors Estate Agent will not/can not advance the situation, what is to be lost from trying?

Quote "7 weeks without so much as a letter from the seller's Solicitor is outrageous and a terrible professional discourtesy" Quote.
You are of course correct. I missed reading this somehow.

We don't know anything about the EA, the OP hasn't told us anything about them. The EA is able to contact the Vendor and may be able to tell the Purchaser what the cause of the delay is which will allow OP to decide if he wants to withdraw from the purchase or not.

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Although a visit to the vendors solicitors office can be illuminating sometimes. I had to visit my own Solicitors office to chase up something, and found the staff trying to sort out files, which were spread out all over the office floor.
Unsurprisingly, a letter arrived in the post within two weeks announcing that another firm had taken over all his responsibilities.
He was last heard of in Australia..........

Visiting your own solicitor's office is very different to visiting the office of a solicitor acting for someone else.

The_Morrigan

Folks cut it out please, you know the rules here if you can't post constructively and in a civil manner then we would prefer you to not post.

Thanks

Morri

Nekarsulm

Fair enough, Moderator, I shall leave them to it. Regards, N.

I heard of a very similar case last night. A friend went sale agreed two months ago and has received no communication from the vendors solicitor.

I wonder if these properties were voluntarily put on the market to appease the banks, but the vendors never had any intention of actually closing a sale?

If there were genuine explanations for the delay i presume these would have been communicated - the lack of communication really smells.

seamus

I've heard plenty of cases where there's been no movement on contracts because a property has yet to get out of probate, or there's a disagreement between the bank (or between the owners) about the price, or whatever.

But in most cases the vendor's solicitor will respond, even if they're unhelpful. In this case it sounds like the solicitor has either been directed to stay quiet, is refusing to deal with the sale (perhaps the vendor is in arrears on fees), or is plain incompetent.

The OP has no business contacting the vendor's solicitor. That's what he pays his own solicitor to do. The OP's liaison is the EA. Turn the screws on the estate agent. Bug them for an answer. Make it look like the sale is going to fall through if the pre-contracts don't appear.

MarkAnthony

You need to be prepared to walk. This is exactly why people are going sale agreed on multiple properties.

Give the EA a call, give them a week, otherwise walk. If this is the delay at this stage expect further silly buggers all round.

Is a case like this, is the EA allowed to place the property back on the market, knowing that (for whatever reason) it's not actually for sale?

Are they regulated?

murph226

I had similar issues recently, the lack of contact from the vendors solicitor got so bad that my solicitor told me to contact them directly myself.

Of course he then told me that this wasn't how it was done and it wasn't very professional, not bothering to reply to my solicitor is very professional though

I was also given the excuse that the solicitors letters to the vendor were being sent to the wrong address.

Now after all that and 4 months waiting on a planning retention issue that has been passed I'm being told that I have to wait another month in case anyone complains even though the planning has been passed!

I spoke to my friend today about his case, which I mentioned above. Its now three months since it went sale agreed and no contracts have materialised - apparently the bank hasn't produced the title documents but why this is is unknown. What really annoys him is that his solicitor hasn't been able to find out anything to assist him and apparently has never spoken to the vendors solicitor on his behalf!
He's now actively looking for another property and will use another solicitor.

Rackstar

Just to update on this. Still waiting, spoke to estate agent who spoke to the vendor. The vendors solicitor hasn't sent anything to the vendor yet. The vendors solicitor still hasn't replied to my solicitors correspondence. I also in passing mentioned my predicament to a friend who by coincidence is also dealing with the vendors solicitor. My friend has been dealing with the solicitor for 3 and a half years sorting out a relatives estate, they will be making an official complaint about the solicitor when they finally get everything settled up.

Miamiheat

If more people "walked" when confronted to ridiculous delays, the whole system would have to improve.
I find it unreal to read such stories, and it seems to be "the norm".

bidiots

Miamiheat wrote: »

If more people "walked" when confronted to ridiculous delays, the whole system would have to improve.
I find it unreal to read such stories, and it seems to be "the norm".

This is the exact tirade I had with my own solicitor last week.
Booking deposit paid early February.
Not a word until last week when I had enough and started barking at auctioneer and solicitors on both sides. I may have went overboard but the threats and highlights of incompetence, got me my contracts on Friday last.

Now, why it took me losing my cool and patience to hurry this along, just reinforces my lack of faith in all involved in this process.
Now, I've just found out that half the required documentation is missing.
To cap it off, first page of the contact I have to sign is a clause that if I delay purchase by 4 weeks, I pay a penalty!!! ffs

Now, how is it possible to invoke the same clause against the vendor? I'd get the house free at this stage!

So, next week, a lot of solicitors and auctioneers are going to have sore ears... only sore ears if they are lucky.

Miamiheat

I just lost 2K in a house that i cannot buy due to structural issues, after 6-7 weeks of being sale agreed...
monies went to survey, valuation and whatever part of the conveyancing my solicitor went through. I cant get that money back from anyone...

bidiots

bidiots wrote: »

To cap it off, first page of the contact I have to sign is a clause that if I delay purchase by 4 weeks, I pay a penalty!!! ffs

The contract only becomes valid when the vendor signs it so if they want to delay they will likely do it at this stage, instead of after signature....
These are things your solicitor should have been taking care of.

I did hear of a case where a vendor delayed and delayed after the contract was signed, and then thinking that property prices had risen tried to ignore the contract and not close the sale.
The purchaser dug his heels in and insisted on completion. It took ten years to work through the courts but he got the house. The purchase price went in legal fees instead of to the vendor who ended up with nothing.

bidiots

Miamiheat wrote: »

I just lost 2K in a house that i cannot buy due to structural issues, after 6-7 weeks of being sale agreed...
monies went to survey, valuation and whatever part of the conveyancing my solicitor went through. I cant get that money back from anyone...

The only way you can justify it is- that 2k saved you tens of thousands...

bitter sweet!

Rackstar

23 weeks on now. Still sale agreed. Contracts were returned 6 weeks ago with requisitions of title and not a thing since from the vendor.

This is a soul destroying process. Hopefully this is the only time I ever have to go through the this.

MarkAnthony

Rackstar wrote: »

23 weeks on now. Still sale agreed. Contracts were returned 6 weeks ago with requisitions of title and not a thing since from the vendor.

This is a soul destroying process. Hopefully this is the only time I ever have to go through the this.

Took me months with all sorts of issues. In now though. Best of luck.

Rackstar

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Took me months with all sorts of issues. In now though. Best of luck.

Giving up chasing people on it now. Has got me nowhere.

EA wasn't happy when I told him I'd have to pull out if the vendor doesn't get a move on.

Rackstar

Rackstar wrote: »

EA wasn't happy when I told him I'd have to pull out if the vendor doesn't get a move on.

After 23 weeks! What planet is he living on???

Seriously though, if the vendor was putting the same pressure on his solicitor to close the sale as you are, you wouldnt be in this situation. At a minimum you would have received a plausible explanation for the delay, their profuse apologies and a complete account of what they are doing to fix things along with a timeline. The logical conclusion is that the vendor isn't actually interested in closing the sale.
Charades like these can be to go through the motions of selling to keep a bank happy, or to use the sale process as a price discovery mechanism in other negotiations eg couple separations.

MarkAnthony

Rackstar wrote: »

Giving up chasing people on it now. Has got me nowhere.

EA wasn't happy when I told him I'd have to pull out if the vendor doesn't get a move on.

I almost door stepped the Vendor at a couple of points. Due to a last minute hiccup we did end up in direct contact and over a cup of tea in their (my) kitchen we found that had I, things would have progressed at a much more rapid pace.

Turns out the vendor wanted (once they became aware of it) to be upfront about a defect in title to part of the garden. I was quite willing to take possessory title. EA was telling the vendor not to be upfront which meant that I never got the option, which I ended up having to take anyway due to messing about with the land registry which could have taken months (if not years) to resolve.

Anyways, in now. In all honesty 23 weeks isn't that long. Sometimes the process can take the better part of a year; as ridiculous as that is.

GalwayBmw

Rackstar wrote: »

Giving up chasing people on it now. Has got me nowhere.

EA wasn't happy when I told him I'd have to pull out if the vendor doesn't get a move on.

Which is good at least you have someone on yr side or someone helping to put the pressure on the vendor, my EA happily accepted me quitting deposit was refunded next day.

As you probably know nothing's guaranteed so worse case it'll be 23 lost weeks. Give them two weeks if nothing happens, nothing likely will.

inchiuvatu

I have had a very similar experience, Vendor's solicitor took 2 months to send contract after sale agreed, then it took another 3 months to get all the paperwork tidied and queries answered.. we are now trying to close in the next week so our loan offer doesn't expire and delay us even further.


best of luck with your own.

GalwayBmw

GalwayBmw wrote: »

my EA happily accepted me quitting, deposit was refunded next day.

Maybe EA recognised that you were doing the right thing. They get messed around by these clients too..

Rackstar

So I'm wondering who will I hear from first, EA or solicitor?

And most importantly what will hear?

inchiuvatu

I would be on your solicitor each day looking for updates, even a quick mail to request an update to keep the pressure on.


it's looks like we will be getting keys today under a caretakers agreement (of sorts) no money is changing hands but the vendor solicitor are signing a contract to agree they will do their job, and our solicitor signs agreeing to pay the money (which is already drawn down)once all the work is done.


our EA didn't have much power except to give out about the vendors solicitor.

ben.schlomo

We went sale agreed first week of June, zero movement since apart from some talk of vendors bank person being on holidays, delay getting title deeds etc. Ringing, texting and emailing the EA regularly for updates, clearly annoying them as we're not getting a lot back from them.

Rackstar

Still no further along. Their solicitor was on hols for a week and a half and then my solicitor for a week and a half.

6 months tomorrow.

ben.schlomo

As if by magic we got an email today that his solicitor has the deeds now and will be sending contracts as soon as possible, heres hoping.

Lucy B

Things should get moving once deeds are there. We were exact same as you. 16 weeks today. Our deeds popped up few weeks ago and things have moved smoothly since then, apart from everyone going on holidays except us!! Waiting for closing date now.
Annoy your solicitor if you feel things aren't moving as fast as you'd like.

Good luck with it all

mriksman

Wow. Jumped online to find out if we are alone in this nightmare, and first post I read has striking resemblance. We are from Australia, and this process has been bizarre. I have never had to wait so long, and have such poor correspondence from all parties involved. Is this common in Ireland??

We were told not to contact the Vendor's solicitor, but after 8 weeks of waiting, I tried and left my name and number. I then got a call from my OWN solicitor saying that I shouldn't do that and it was a breach of ethics.

I also have the EA emailing me, asking me if my solicitor has received the answers from the vendors solicitor to the queries he has. When I ask everyone what is happening, I get told they will call back, but no one ever does. I am constantly chasing everyone up.

It has been now been 2 months.

Is there a 'name and shame' system available?! I wouldn't be surprised if we are all dealing with the same people!