Travel 90 – 10 Journey ticket withdrawal

LXFlyer

Just a heads up in case people haven't seen it.....


http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Travel-90--10-Journey-ticket-withdrawal-/

Travel 90 – 10 Journey ticket withdrawal

Published on Monday, April 13, 2015
Dublin Bus wishes to advise customers that from early May 2015 Dublin Bus ticket agents will no longer be selling the Travel 90 – 10 Journey ticket. This follows the successful introduction of Leap 90 Discount for Leap Card users.

Leap Card customers can now receive up to €1.00 off a subsequent trip made within ninety minutes of beginning their journey.

For information on alternative means of payment, visit the Fare and Tickets section of the website.

Travel 90 tickets remain valid until the use by date printed on the front of the card.

Aard

And one of the best products in Irish public transport history bites the dust.

Van.Bosch

Aard wrote: »

And one of the best products in Irish public transport history bites the dust.

Yes, the exact type of product leap card is ideal for across multi modes, exactly what should be expanded is binned. The €1 discount is good but this was simpler, cleaner but I guess more expensive.

Aard

That's what happens when decisionmakers think that "integrated ticketing" is the same as "electronic payment".

I used to get Travel 90s all the time until the price was hiked. I even remember when they were 10 separate magstripe tickets. Found them much better for multiple journeys, one of the simplest reasons being zero driver interaction. I just touched it and off I went. Leap is still slower than cash in most cases.

Aard

I gather that the problem with T90 was that people were using them for return journeys. Fair enough, but I'm sure that could have been gotten around somehow. Would the T90 ticket have recorded information on boarding such as time, route number?

KD345

The T90 really was a great product. It allowed people to get from A to B using multiple buses by paying one fare.

As good as the Leap 90 discount is, it falls short of the simple feature.

coylemj

Aard wrote: »

I gather that the problem with T90 was that people were using them for return journeys.

No, the problem was that it encouraged you to stick with DB for the entire trip, the NTA prefer that you consider doing a trip using multiple operators.

While I'm a great fan of the T90 and have a stock that will keep me going until late in 2015, the 90 minute Leap discount means that I can now do bus+Dart for certain journeys that I would previously have done via bus+bus using T90 so things are a bit more flexible than they used to be.

My record with a T90 ticket was a one-way trip on four buses on one validation and my best round trip was from Baggot St. to the NCR on a No. 10 to visit a friend in the Mater Hospital at lunchtime, I got out and back on the same validation!

mrsdewinter

What a shame. I remember buying the book of 10 tickets for e17 after an American friend gave me heads-up when I moved to the burbs about a decade ago, Oh, well..

dublindiehard

Leap 90 will actually cost the companies more overall than they save from the travel 90 being withdrawn.

Calina

This is not, in my opinion, a very good decision. I'm not in favour of "we'll give you a discount on the subsequent journey". Most European cities of a population around the same size as Dublin have a basic ticket which is valid for one hour across all modes. That is their basic single journey ticket. And no one gets their knickers in a twist about some of those journeys being return journeys.

The other issue is mode change journeys in Dublin are generally not time efficient.

I consider this a retrograde step. But nor am I totally surprised.

LXFlyer

Calina wrote: »

This is not, in my opinion, a very good decision. I'm not in favour of "we'll give you a discount on the subsequent journey". Most European cities of a population around the same size as Dublin have a basic ticket which is valid for one hour across all modes. That is their basic single journey ticket. And no one gets their knickers in a twist about some of those journeys being return journeys.

The other issue is mode change journeys in Dublin are generally not time efficient.

I consider this a retrograde step. But nor am I totally surprised.

While I don't disagree with you on this being a retrograde step, this ultimately boils down to funding and revenue for the operating companies.

Offering unlimited travel across all operators for 90 minutes for a particular price versus offering a €1 discount on subsequent trips (for which the incidence of third and more trips is likely to be low) would I would imagine be likely to cost more ultimately.

The bottom line is that someone has to pay for it.

Perhaps when the finances of our public transport operators improve such a ticket might be more palatable.

It should be noted however that in the case of the LEAP90 discount, a new 90 minutes period starts every time you tag on, even when the first one hasn't completed, so the discounts can build up.

Calina

lxflyer wrote: »

While I don't disagree with you on this being a retrograde step, this ultimately boils down to funding and revenue for the operating companies.

Offering unlimited travel across all operators for 90 minutes for a particular price versus offering a €1 discount on subsequent trips (for which the incidence of third and more trips is likely to be low) would I would imagine be likely to cost more ultimately.

The bottom line is that someone has to pay for it.

Perhaps when the finances of our public transport operators improve such a ticket might be more palatable.

It should be noted however that in the case of the LEAP90 discount, a new 90 minutes period starts every time you tag on, even when the first one hasn't completed, so the discounts can build up.

I think it's revealing that the time period is 90 minutes though. For Brussels, Munich, Paris and other regional cities in France, it's 60 minutes. The other point I'd suggest is that someone who is banking up 90minute focused discounts is probably going to run into the daily charge limit fairly sharpish anyway.

hfallada

Why doesnt Dublin have zones like most cities? Where you buy one ticket, that allows you for one price to travel on any mode of transport for one price. It doesnt make much sense to me, that if you live in Phisboro your yearly ticket is same price as someone living in Enniskerry, Wicklow.

LXFlyer

Calina wrote: »

I think it's revealing that the time period is 90 minutes though. For Brussels, Munich, Paris and other regional cities in France, it's 60 minutes. The other point I'd suggest is that someone who is banking up 90minute focused discounts is probably going to run into the daily charge limit fairly sharpish anyway.

Not if you're making short trips (1-3 stages). You could make four or five of these and only incur €3.50-€4.

Aard

The trend internationally is for time-based fares rather than distance-based fares. I.e. Hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, annual. Much easier to manage, and much simpler to understand for the customer. I'd imagine a more reliable revenue stream as well.

Zones work for rail much easier than bus, though it's not unheard of. Copenhagen's zone system is an exemplar of byzantine fares that I wonder whether it actually serves passengers any better than a concentric zone system. To put Dublin in comparison to London, the M50 would fit entirely inside Travelcard Zone 2.

Aard

lxflyer wrote: »

Not if you're making short trips (1-3 stages). You could make four or five of these and only incur €3.50-€4.

And if those trips were in the city centre then many of them might end up being free!

Calina

We have the stage based system on the buses here. I think it's unnecessarily complex and making it a time based fare would be useful.

But I've been waiting for that change for years.

ModeMadFan

As an infrequent Dublin Bus traveller, I used the Travel 90 ticket which gives you unlimited bus travel with 90 minutes on as many buses as you want for €2.95.

Now this ticket is being withdrawn and replaced by the Leap 90 which according to Dublin Bus gives Leap Card customers up to €1.00 off a subsequent trip made within ninety minutes of beginning their journey.

Can anyone work out the maths? I think Rip Off Ireland is back!!

LXFlyer

ModeMadFan wrote: »

As an infrequent Dublin Bus traveller, I used the Travel 90 ticket which gives you unlimited bus travel with 90 minutes on as many buses as you want for €2.95.

Now this ticket is being withdrawn and replaced by the Leap 90 which according to Dublin Bus gives Leap Card customers up to €1.00 off a subsequent trip made within ninety minutes of beginning their journey.

Can anyone work out the maths? I think Rip Off Ireland is back!!

It's €1 off every subsequent trip that you take within 90 minutes, if you switch between bus and bus, train or LUAS, or train and LUAS.


Also a brand new 90 minute period starts every time you tag on - so the discounts can mount up.


As I said above, it's fundamentally a funding issue. The T90 tickets cost more than offering the discounts.

coylemj

ModeMadFan wrote: »

As an infrequent Dublin Bus traveller, I used the Travel 90 ticket which gives you unlimited bus travel with 90 minutes on as many buses as you want for €2.95.

Now this ticket is being withdrawn and replaced by the Leap 90 which according to Dublin Bus gives Leap Card customers up to €1.00 off a subsequent trip made within ninety minutes of beginning their journey.

Can anyone work out the maths? I think Rip Off Ireland is back!!

Seriously - a rip-off? I think that's just a little harsh.

Now that the middle fare on DB can be used for up to 13 stages, it means that using the Leap card you can do two bus journeys each of 13 or less stages and the whole trip will cost you €3.05, made up of €2.05 for each leg and a €1 Leap 90 discount.

I agree that you'd be losing money on longer journeys but any time I use the T90 ticket, both legs are less than 13 stages so it's not the end of the world and I have more options because the discount applies whether the second leg is bus or Dart, the T90 is only good for a trip involving multiple bus journeys.

Carawaystick

Well my journey to work would cost 1.70 more by leap than by T90 at the last t90 price of 2.95 a journey.

That's a ~55% increase.

LXFlyer

Carawaystick wrote: »

Well my journey to work would cost 1.70 more by leap than by T90 at the last t90 price of 2.95 a journey.

That's a ~55% increase.

Are you including the €1 discount?

coylemj

lxflyer wrote: »

Are you including the €1 discount?

I suspect not as 2.95 + 1.70 = 4.65 which equates to two Leap journeys at 2.05 and 2.60.

So with the 90 minute discount the actual cost will be 3.65, an increase of 70c or 24%. Not quite the 55% 'rip-off' he thinks it is.

Carawaystick

Silly me, using the dublin bus fare calculator and expecting the fare to be right.
It's just a third dearer, 3.90 vs 2.95 previously

a 33x and a 2.05 fare reduced by a quid.

bg07

If you make the same return journey with a leap card it is only €3.45 per day as the daily cap is €6.90. And and further journey that day are free.

If you make the return journey if 5 days a week the leap weekly cap works out as €2.75 per journey (€27.50 weekly Dublin bus cap) and is therefore cheaper than with a Travel 90

Carawaystick

bg07 wrote: »

If you make the same return journey with a leap card it is only €3.45 per day as the daily cap is €6.90. And and further journey that day are free.

If you make the return journey if 5 days a week the leap weekly cap works out as €2.75 per journey (€27.50 weekly Dublin bus cap) and is therefore cheaper than with a Travel 90

Does the cap now include the 33x fare?

LXFlyer

Carawaystick wrote: »

Does the cap now include the 33x fare?

Yes it does.