Ireland is safest country in EU to drive in

I.S.T.

I found this little nugget in the Road Safety Authority Road Collision Facts 2012 report which has been kept very quiet. Apparently Ireland is the safest country to drive in in the EU! Would you believe it?

We have 3.4 deaths per billion vehicle kilometers travelled. Sweden has 3.6, Iceland 3.82, Britain 3.89, Germany 5.59.

It makes you wonder why all the publicity and focus on speeding, GoSafe and speed cameras when we are top of the road safety league.

mgbgt1978

You may possibly be confusing 'Safety' with 'Stealth Taxes'....

road_high

I knew we were in the top tier but didn't think we were top for safety? Also though UK was marginally safer than us too.
Is it just the way the stats are worded/calculated? It's usually done I think per head of population rather than kms travelled.

doolox

The govt might be looking for zero fatalities as an ultimate goal in their policing of the roads. This may seem like an impossible target at first glance but there is a tendancy to monetise life and put a price on lives lost in the general run of life in general and traffic in particular.

While there are lives being lost it probably makes sense to police various aspects of road behaviour so as to reduce and eventually eliminate road traffic accidents, first to eliminate deaths, then to move onto injuries and eventually to damage, both to cars and static property.

The present position seems to be to police speed as the only cause of road accidents where there are many causes that are more difficult to measure, detect and correct. Why are there so few guards on our roads at 3 in the morning when a lot of single car RTA's occur involving young males?

There are a lot more guards at speed traps on the r 128 ( formerly the N4) at Lucan trapping people doing 89 in an 80 zone or 71 in a 60 zone where large numbers of people regularly ply the M50 at 140 to 150 kph with impunity, to the consternation of people doing 80 to 90 kph ( Dont try that in the outside lane ).

I would say that a lot of work needs to be done to sort out accidents at junctions, people going the wrong way or jumping lanes on motorways, people exiting motorways from middle lanes abruptly and too late, people on phones on the middle lanes of motorways, outside lane hoggers going too slowly or pulling out abruptly in front of fast approaching traffic etc.

I've seen this heart stopping behaviour a lot of it involving positional errors rather than speed errors but it never seems to be punished or corrected.

CiniO

I.S.T. wrote: »

We have 3.4 deaths per billion vehicle kilometers travelled.

So considering there were 162 deaths on Irish roads in 2012, then it means there must have been 47.6 billion kilometres driven.

So considering 2.5 million vehicles here, average mileage comes at 19k kilometres per vehicle on average.

I honestly don't believe that can be correct.

ardmacha

A pity things have gone backwards since 2012.

Guy:Incognito

I.S.T. wrote: »

It makes you wonder why all the publicity and focus on speeding, GoSafe and speed cameras when we are top of the road safety league.

Yep, everyone knows that anyone successful at anything, once they reach the top just stick on cruise control, put their feet on the dash, nod off and continue being number one forever more. Sure **** just takes care of itself.......

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

So considering there were 162 deaths on Irish roads in 2012, then it means there must have been 47.6 billion kilometres driven.

So considering 2.5 million vehicles here, average mileage comes at 19k kilometres per vehicle on average.

I honestly don't believe that can be correct.

Petrol averages 17k and diesel 24k, not unbelievable.

http://www.consumerhelp.ie/car-clocking

cml387

I.S.T. wrote: »

It makes you wonder why all the publicity and focus on speeding, GoSafe and speed cameras when we are top of the road safety league.

And how do you think we got to the top:rolleyes:

I.S.T.

cml387 wrote: »

And how do you think we got to the top:rolleyes:

Building Motorways, improved safety in cars, enforcing drinking driving laws. Certainly not speed cameras.

delahuntv

I.S.T. wrote: »

Building Motorways, improved safety in cars, enforcing drinking driving laws. Certainly not speed cameras.

Speed cameras have been proven everywhere to reduce accidents.

Here accident rates in speed camera zones have reduced by over 50% - they are not motorways and improved cars does not mean improved drivers!

Cameras on their own though are not responsible, but they make a hell of a difference.

Iwannahurl

ardmacha wrote: »

A pity things have gone backwards since 2012.

Perhaps the definition of "safest country" also depends on how you define "safe"?

For example, since the 1970s and 1980s the number of children walking and cycling to school in Ireland has plummeted.

Our roads are supposedly safer than they have ever been, yet many parents are too afraid to let their children walk or cycle to the local shop, never mind to school.

The number of people cycling in the Netherlands, also classed as a "safe" country in the EU, is far higher. They don't feel afraid travelling to school or work on a bike, yet many Irish people do.

There's something seriously wrong when the statistics show one thing and people's behaviour indicates something quite different.

H3llR4iser

I have been saying this for a long time. Ireland, all considered, has an incredibly low amount of road collisions - which is more surprising considering that with the exception of the few motorways, most roads outside of the city bounds are absurdly dangerous compared to most EU countries.

A lot of the N roads, one lane per direction of travel with very few overtaking opportunities and really poor visibility of the incoming traffic are a nightmare to drive on.

If you ask me about the real reason for such low figures, I will tell you something surprising: Irish drivers, on a general level, realize when they are in no condition to drive. I can make a direct comparison with the mediterranean countries, Italy especially. People down there drive regardless - one (or three) drinks too many, tired, sick. They go the "oh sure I can drive!" way, and end up wrapped around a tree.

Irish people, largely take a taxi if they feel they can't drive. Which is the correct choice.

"Speed cameras" will forever be a controversial topic, until some organization/government decides to conduct a proper experiment to asses their effectiveness. In Germany, the ADAC published data that proves the relationship between traffic flow and accidents is the same in restricted and unrestricted parts of the Autobahn; It certainly has to be said that over there you'll hardly find the Micra pottering at 70km/h in the overtaking lane.

Yet, what probably happens is that the "threat" of speed cameras being around forces drivers to focus on the road rather than yapping away with the passengers, fiddling with the radio or worse (phone, tablet...). Distracted driving is one of if not the #1 cause of accidents, and curtailing it normally helps a lot.
Years ago, Italian motorways adopted a system called "Sorpassometro" (Overtake-o-meter, roughly!); It was a network of cameras that detected lane hogging on the motorways. It did not record speed, and the experiment was short lived (they say because it costed a lot and didn't result in many fines), but the number of collisions diminished quite consistently on the stretches where the experiment was carried on.

Essentially, the fact people had to pay attention to what they were doing worked, even without the speed checks.

dinorebel

They obviously missed the fact that Donegal is in Ireland.

Asmooh

thats because everyone drives crappy slow family cars over here

pred racer

delahuntv wrote: »

Speed cameras have been proven everywhere to reduce accidents.

Here accident rates in speed camera zones have reduced by over 50% - they are not motorways and improved cars does not mean improved drivers!

Cameras on their own though are not responsible, but they make a hell of a difference.

mainly because most of the speed camera zones that used to have the largest volume of traffic/accidents are now bypassed by motorways

N7 and N77 would be the best examples, speed camera zones littering a road that nobody uses anymore!

Gazzmonkey

dinorebel wrote: »

They obviously missed the fact that Donegal is in Ireland.

Yes, very obvious

I.S.T.

delahuntv wrote: »

Speed cameras have been proven everywhere to reduce accidents.

Where has this been proven? The Garda figures have not proved this.

delahuntv wrote: »

Here accident rates in speed camera zones have reduced by over 50% .

Before speed cameras were introduced the crashes in the zones where they now operate dropped 2% per year. After speed cameras it dropped 0.5% a year. So it can be argued speed cameras have actually made roads less safe.

Seth Brundle

doolox wrote: »

The govt might be looking for zero fatalities as an ultimate goal in their policing of the roads. This may seem like an impossible target at first glance but there is a tendancy to monetise life and put a price on lives lost in the general run of life in general and traffic in particular.

Zero fatalities will be nigh on impossible especially given that some road deaths will be due to other non RSA/government changable factors e.g. heart attacks (apparently more common than you would imagine. Known recent examples are a bus in Birmingham and a bin lorry in Glasgow), suicide, etc.
Other external or environmental factors such as sudden inclement weather will also have an impact.

However, if they do want to reduce the numbers further then (IMO) two things are required:
1. better education and re-testing e.g. everyone must resit their test every five years.
2. enforcement! Penalty points alone have not made the roads safer. The fear of getting caught by the gardai and receiving the points has!

Iwannahurl

I.S.T. wrote: »

Before speed cameras were introduced the crashes in the zones where they now operate dropped 2% per year. After speed cameras it dropped 0.5% a year. So it can be argued speed cameras have actually made roads less safe.

Interesting.

Have you a source for that?

Iwannahurl

kbannon wrote: »

Penalty points alone have not made the roads safer. The fear of getting caught by the gardai and receiving the points has!

I would be inclined to agree. After the introduction of measures such as Penalty Points and Random Breath Testing (RBT) there tends to be a sharp drop in road fatalities. Then it seems as if complacency sets in, and the numbers creep up again after a while.

I'm too terrified of being caught to drink and drive, but the reality is that in all my years driving I have never seen an RBT checkpoint let alone been stopped at one.

The Traffic Corps was significantly reduced 2009-2014 (that may be changing now) which must have had an effect, and not a good one either imo.

seamus

kbannon wrote: »

However, if they do want to reduce the numbers further then (IMO) two things are required:
1. better education and re-testing e.g. everyone must resit their test every five years.
2. enforcement! Penalty points alone have not made the roads safer. The fear of getting caught by the gardai and receiving the points has!

Along with this, ultimately we need to re-think our overall attitude towards vehicles and the road. There's an idea in everyone's head that driving is a perfectly natural and simple thing that everyone has a right to do minimally impeded by the state.

In reality driving a vehicle is like walking around in public carrying a loaded shotgun. Perfectly safe if treated with the appropriate respect and caution, but potentially devastating if used inconsiderately or negligently.

As such, misuse of vehicles should be appropriately responded to; for example bans should be automatic after 6 points, with a second ban being permanent. This would need some adjustment of points obviously, for example with minor speed infractions incurring 1 point and major ones, 3 points.
12 points is quite a lot. That someone can rack up that many offences in a 3-year period without being put off the road is scary.

Along with continual retesting and mandatory education hours we might be able to teach people that driving a vehicle is a privileged licence given to people proven they can be trusted with dangerous machinery and not an automatic right handed out to every adult.

H3llR4iser

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I would be inclined to agree. After the introduction of measures such as Penalty Points and Random Breath Testing (RBT) there tends to be a sharp drop in road fatalities. Then it seems as if complacency sets in, and the numbers creep up again after a while.

I'm too terrified of being caught to drink and drive, but the reality is that in all my years driving I have never seen an RBT checkpoint let alone been stopped at one.

The Traffic Corps was significantly reduced 2009-2014 (that may be changing now) which must have had an effect, and not a good one either imo.

You make an interesting point here. What I am curious about is why the "I am afraid of being caught drink driving" factor works well here, but not in other places, where lack of actual checks is similar.

Of all the people I know in Italy, very few of them have ever been given an alcohol test and the ones who had one, it was just like once or twice in...15-20 years of driving. Most people down there just go "ah they won't stop me" and drive when they should not.

One possibility is that it depends on exposure and relevance. I noticed there has been quite a bit of talk in Ireland about drink driving (and under the influence of other substances).

For a number of reason (protection of hospitality business, essentially) the drink driving problem is often brushed under the carpet in the Mediterranean - they only bang about speeding here and speeding there, ignoring the glaring fact that the vast majority (~80%) of the road fatalities happen between 12am on Friday nights and 6am on Sunday mornings, pointing out to a very obvious scenario.

Iwannahurl

I think years of 'social engineering' in the form of media campaigns has made drink-driving culturally unacceptable (to most people).

The hospitality argument is still made by vested interested and the Healy-Raes of this country, but as with the workplace smoking ban there is no going back.

It shows the value of strong public policy rigorously implemented, imo.

I.S.T.

I.S.T. wrote: »

Before speed cameras were introduced the crashes in the zones where they now operate dropped 2% per year. After speed cameras it dropped 0.5% a year. So it can be argued speed cameras have actually made roads less safe.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Interesting.

Have you a source for that?

See the attached table as released by the Guards in their press release on 14th March 2013 (http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=10887). I have added the last column showing when GoSafe cameras began operating, which was 16th November 2010. As you can see the percentage of fatalities in GoSafe zones was 31% in 2004 and dropped to 17% in 2012. In the press release the Guards attribute this 14% drop to the GoSafe speed cameras. However the majority of this drop occurred in the time before GoSafe cameras were operating, i.e. from 2004 to 2010, a 13% drop but from 2010 to 2012 a 1% drop. Bearing in mind the GoSafe cameras were not at full capacity until 2011 I do not believe the 26% to 18% drop in 2010 can be attributed to the GoSafe cameras. On average there was a 2% drop per year from 2004 to 2010, thereafter it was a 0.5% drop.

Jesus.

seamus wrote: »

As such, misuse of vehicles should be appropriately responded to; for example bans should be automatic after 6 points, with a second ban being permanent. This would need some adjustment of points obviously, for example with minor speed infractions incurring 1 point and major ones, 3 points.12 points is quite a lot. That someone can rack up that many offences in a 3-year period without being put off the road is scary.

kbannon wrote: »

everyone must resit their test every five years.

Have a day off would ye? :rolleyes: