Senator Lorraine Higgins wants to introduce a bill to jail trolls!

Banjo String

What's folks thoughts on this?

Internet trolls face being fined €5,000 or up to a year in jail if found guilty, under a new law being proposed.

Labour Senator Lorraine Higgins, who herself has been the victim of repeated and sustained online abuse, today launched the bill at Leinster House.

Under the bill, any electronic communication may be considered "harmful" if it incites or encourages someone to commit suicide or cause serious harm to themselves.

Under the proposed bill, called the Harmful and Malicious Electronic Communications Bill 2015, it will also be an offence simply to send "explicit content" to another person.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/web-trolls-face-being-jailed-under-new-proposal-31147865.html
Personally, I'm all for anti bullying etc, but I'm not sure why this bill should specifically target someone's online posts.

Is slagging or spitting vitriol at someone verbally offline less offensive

Where does it end?

What's after hours thoughts on the proposals?

cloud493

Well I kinda agree, although it shouldn't just apply to internet trolling. Cyber bullying and the like is a serious issue, and you need a serious deterrent for it etc (not that IRL bullying is any better of course)

The Black Oil

Fed up with populist political stunts to try and regulate the internet. Existing legislation is there - use it.

It should be criminalised if online bullying causes someone harm, but lets not pretend people will be jailed for it when burglars, muggers and rapists don't even serve time.

Banjo String

cloud493 wrote: »

Well I kinda agree, although it shouldn't just apply to internet trolling. Cyber bullying and the like is a serious issue, and you need a serious deterrent for it etc (not that IRL bullying is any better of course)

Well this is kinda my point, I mean you could tell a colleague at work they're a useless waste or space (for example), and this person could end up harming themselves over such comments.

Should you be Jailed or fined, even if such comments were an inconvenient truth?

I've seen posters on this site that I've assumed are 'trolls' but these people may believe whole heartedly in what they're posting.

Hence I don't know how they'll apply any such law.

Montroseee

I'd 100% support her proposal, it's badly needed IMO.

Streetwalker

More big brother nonsense.

Generic Dreadhead

"Introduce Plans" just reads wrong... :-/

ScumLord

"people are picking on me, won't somebody think of the children"

crazygeryy

Can we start with kathryn Thomas So please.

http://www.independent.ie/style/celebrity/celebrity-news/kathryn-thomas-madonna-is-a-deluded-moron-who-needs-to-stop-trying-to-create-headlines-31147486.html

She would be better occupied if she ensured that burglars were jailed on first conviction and ensured that it would not be possible for people with 42 previous convictions to be on our streets to reoffend.

anncoates

Ridiculous, populist nonsense.

Punish actual systematic online bullying if necessary, but that's different to normal trolling which is harmless enough.

That said, for the latter, the eventual realization that you're an adult that dedicates time and energy to fantasist personae in order to annoy strangers on the internet is probably punishment by mortification anyway.

who the fug

Why is this one using the Right to be forgotten nonsense, what she been up to

Banjo String

Cormac... wrote: »

"Introduce Plans" just reads wrong... :-/

Fine or jail him ^^^.

Mountainsandh

Banjo String wrote: »

Well this is kinda my point, I mean you could tell a colleague at work they're a useless waste or space (for example), and this person could end up harming themselves over such comments.

Should you be Jailed or fined, even if such comments were an inconvenient truth?

I've seen posters on this site that I've assumed are 'trolls' but these people may believe whole heartedly in what they're posting.

Hence I don't know how they'll apply any such law.

I agree with you, better education is what is needed, haters gonna hate, trolls gonna troll, it's how vulnerable youngsters are that should be addressed.

BoJack Horseman

That electronic communication/harassment law is definitely due an upgrade.

Arsemageddon

Extra, extra read all about it-

'Unelected senator with propensity to repeatedly make stupid gaffes seeks to silence critics'

Fair enough to get the coppers involved if threats are being made, but Lorraine Higgins really has very little else to be doing if she is still bleating on about this. If she feels so threatened why doesn't she stop using facebook, twitter and the like?

conorhal

The Black Oil wrote: »

Fed up with populist political stunts to try and regulate the internet. Existing legislation is there - use it.

Well that doesn't get anybody's campaigning face in the papers now does it?

The Black Oil

Montroseee wrote: »

I'd 100% support her proposal, it's badly needed IMO.

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

That electronic communication/harassment law is definitely due an upgrade.

Why? Why can't some people learn Wheaton's law?

In respect of children, aren't other forms of bullying still far more common? Are people concerned about suicides due to certain high profile cases? Such instances are extremely rare. I'm not annoyed with you two, btw, just Lorraine's stunt.

Digital Rights Ireland are very much of the view that existing legislation covers harassment and bullying.

Our position is that in the areas of bullying, harassment and hate speech, two offences exist which are already technology-neutral and can apply to online communication. Better enforcement of these laws will safeguard freedom of expression and privacy online while allowing ample scope for prosecution against those bullying and harassing others online.

An Oireachtas report (link) came to a similar conclusions and talks in some respects about a more local approach.

In the case of children and young people being bullied by their peers, it is the Committee‘s opinion that these matters are best dealt with outside the courts system unless they involve cases which are persistent or unresponsive to other forms of intervention. Some cases may be best dealt with within schools, as is increasingly done in the USA where cyberbullying (even if it occurs outside school time) is seen as disruptive to the learning environment.

Where cases arise which need a stronger response, the Committee is satisfied that there is already legislation in place to deal with cyberbullying though identification and follow-through of cyberbullying remains a problem. However, the costs involved in pursuing a case through the courts may be prohibitive and this is a matter which requires further examination.

A problem identified by the Committee is the lack of a central agency or body charged with managing the reports relating to claims that social media users have been engaging in cyberbullying or other inappropriate behaviour. This has been left to the social media companies themselves.

Mr. Paul C Dwyer of the National Anti-Bullying Coalition told the Committee that one social network provider received some 100,000 requests per day but had just 90 people to deal with such requests.

The Office for Internet Safety is an Executive Office of the Department of Justice and Equality and has been established by the Government to take the lead responsibility for internet safety in Ireland, particularly in relation to children.1 However, the OIS does not have a formal regulatory role; its primary function is to monitor the current self-regulatory model agreed with Internet Service Providers. The OIS also coordinates the Safer Internet Centre and the Safer Internet Ireland Project.

The Committee is concerned that the OIS is not sufficiently developed to deal with the threats posed by the misuse of social media. At present the OIS has a low profile in many quarters. It therefore needs to increase its profile and establish a greater presence on the internet.

What's easier - improve existing resources, or go for the populist approach? Welcome to Ireland.

P. Breathnach

Arsemageddon wrote: »

... If she feels so threatened why doesn't she stop using facebook, twitter and the like?

Why should she have to?

My name is URL

Isn't this the same bint that launched a 'bullying' campaign on Twitter against a TD a while back? I suppose she'll be turning herself into Gardai so

http://www.thejournal.ie/luke-ming-flanagan-lorraine-higgins-twitter-facebook-post-turkey-1453665-May2014/

For someone who has repeatedly failed to be elected by her constituents she sure does get a lot of media attention.

ScumLord

The Black Oil wrote: »

In respect of children, aren't other forms of bullying still far more common?

I suppose the big difference between normal face to face bullying and online bullying is that online bullying happens on a public stage. It's a bit like the bully calling everyone you know into one place and then using a megaphone to bully you in front of everyone you know.

Mountainsandh

ScumLord wrote: »

I suppose the big difference between normal face to face bullying and online bullying is that online bullying happens on a public stage. It's a bit like the bully calling everyone you know into one place and then using a megaphone to bully you in front of everyone you know.

Meh. Someone spreading rumours at school is just as bad imo, and reaches the same audience exactly. It's really how important it is to the victim that makes the difference, and maybe the fact that the words are digitally preserved.

As in, whether the victim is going to peruse the words over and over again.

Just like we can sometimes rehash words in our heads really. Our memory does as good a job as an online social platform I think.

Arsemageddon

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Why should she have to?

If its such a problem for her it seems like the obvious thing to do would be to stop using social media.

Mountainsandh

Arsemageddon wrote: »

If its such a problem for her it seems like the obvious thing to do would be to stop using social media.

Block/unfriend/report people too. Make posts private. Avoid public profiles where your name may be mentioned, untag yourself... I think there's more ways to protect yourself online than a celebrity trying to ignore traditional media for example.

Dracula!

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3ua3G4IQSZM/maxresdefault.jpg

Yellowblackbird

I think that we should also send to Jail people who don't fully read a thread and then make the same point that has already been made and maybe loads of times.

Tough on crime. Tough on the causes of crime.

ScumLord

Arsemageddon wrote: »

If its such a problem for her it seems like the obvious thing to do would be to stop using social media.

I'm sure she would see access to FAcebook and twitter as essential in her line of work these days.

blackwhite

Banjo String wrote: »

What's folks thoughts on this?

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/web-trolls-face-being-jailed-under-new-proposal-31147865.html
Personally, I'm all for anti bullying etc, but I'm not sure why this bill should specifically target someone's online posts.

Is slagging or spitting vitriol at someone verbally offline less offensive

Where does it end?

What's after hours thoughts on the proposals?

I'm all for the Gardaí tracking down people who have made threats online (i.e. the person who threatened to "rip your head from your shoulders" in the linked article, or all the little scrotes who like to make rape threats).
However, I don't see why we need new legislation for this - it's already illegal to make threatening communications, we just need that law enforced.

What Higgins seems to want is a law that she can try to use to stop anyone who ridicules her for being an unelectable irrelevence.


As an aside, why is it that the Labour party has such a penchant for continually trying to push clearly unwanted candidates on the electorate.
Higgins failed to get elected in 2009 to the Galway council, and in 2011 to the Dáil (both elections where Labour were getting an anti-FF boost in popularity).

Surely Labour should take the hint that the people of Galway aren't exactly keen on her.

They've similar in Dublin with a high-profile candidates like Bacik who, despite continually failing to get elected to Europe/DáiL Eireann, is guaranteed a spot on the Labour ticket any time she shows an interest.

Junkyard Tom

I'm not sure it will work. Trolls are expert tunnellers.

Arsemageddon

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Block/unfriend/report people too. Make posts private. Avoid public profiles where your name may be mentioned, untag yourself... I think there's more ways to protect yourself online than a celebrity trying to ignore traditional media for example.

Don't use twitter or Faceb0llocks myself so I'll admit to not being fully aware of how they work regarding privacy. What you've suggested sounds right though.

I just have a problem when someone how couldn't even manage to get elected to the dizzy heights of Galway County Council exploits every possible opportunity to get media exposure.

I don't condone her getting outright abuse or threats, but if she wants to use unrestricted social media to canvass for votes then she should be prepared to take the sh1t that goes with it.

NachoBusiness

I've been bullied online and would have found the suggestion that it could happen to me absurd, just a few weeks before that. I'm a grown man ffs, but when it happens to you, it's a different story. Was nothing serious and I'm thick skinned but it was quite frustrating to have it happen, especially as in my case it involved lots of bloody pointless lies being told just so others would think I was someone I was not, and they did, rather easily as it goes, which was quite surprising. Had I not been thick skinned, and was the type to let it really get to me, do I feel people should be made to take responsibility for that? I don't know tbh.

I seen some of the crap that was sent to Robin Williams daughter the week he died and for sure, had she harmed herself in response, then yes I do think those people should be held accountable as they set out to torment her. The Megan Meier case is another example why trolling / bullying should have consequences for those behind it.

It all comes down to intention I guess and if you're only trolling for lolz, then fine, but if you're trolling to deliberately cause distress and that distress leads to someone harming themselves, then without doubt such cowards need to be dealt with in some manner.

crockholm

Bad idea. Irishh Bob/Chemical Burn/Scanlas would never again see the light of day again.Troll on lads,troll on.

Diabhal Beag

Trolls we got you

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Hitchens

whether she's looking for publicity or not ...........she does have a point

Cold War Kid

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well it's trolls she's focused on rather than "shinnerbots".

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Aongus Von Bismarck

I've been on the receiving end of some of the hateful and spiteful abuse dished out by angry Internet trolls. I started a blog a number of months back, more as an outlet for my own thoughts more than anything. Comments have been left that range from the usual calling me a knob or a dickhead, to other far more sinister ones threatening to stab me, burn down my apartment, cut the brake cables in my BMW, destroy my life etc.
Can't understand the mentality of someone who would be that angry and frustrated with their own short-comings that they need to resort to that type of behaviour.

c_man

"We met with the member of the gardai who talked us through various vulnerability around the house, who suggested we should up our security in the run up in the next general election."

Oh right, now it all makes sense

Banjo String

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I've been on the receiving end of some of the hateful and spiteful abuse dished out by angry Internet trolls. I started a blog a number of months back, more as an outlet for my own thoughts more than anything. Comments have been left that range from the usual calling me a knob or a dickhead, to other far more sinister ones threatening to stab me, burn down my apartment, cut the brake cables in my BMW, destroy my life etc.
Can't understand the mentality of someone who would be that angry and frustrated with their own short-comings that they need to resort to that type of behaviour.

You just couldn't say "car", could ya.

AndonHandon

Get rid of internet anonymity and make people stand by what vitriol they post online. See how tough they are then.

Banjo String

AndonHandon wrote: »

Get rid of internet anonymity and make people stand by what vitriol they post online. See how tough they are then.

Ok AndonHandon....

If that is your real name. :cool:

RobertKK

A while back on twitter, I said something negative but truthful about Sinn Fein, it was the time of the SF ard fheis, Senator Lorraine Higgins responded to agree.
It ended up with me having to defend Ms Higgins as she was getting some horrible stuff said to her, for shock/horror not being a fan of SF and having the cheek to agree with me about the politics of SF.
She was getting abuse for being a senator as if she had somehow illegally became a senator, rather than through constitutional means. Just some real nasty putdowns, which were simply not fair as it was just to attack her rather than argue the points of SF politics and policies.

Roquentin

what defines a troll? someone could say something of which one person finds no problem with and another person does

AndonHandon

Banjo String wrote: »

Ok AndonHandon....

If that is your real name. :cool:

Well it's obviously not even close to my real name but I'm hardly going to post my real name when there are ghouls hiding behind the veil of anonymity.

thomur

Fair play. Send them to Van Diemans land

DivingDuck

Banjo String wrote: »

Under the proposed bill, called the Harmful and Malicious Electronic Communications Bill 2015, it will also be an offence simply to send "explicit content" to another person.

This is the part that I find the most worrying. Doesn't it seem like it's going to bring in a kind of weird reversal of revenge porn? Someone breaks it off with you, and instead of posting their nude pics to the internet, you take their nude pics to the police and complain they've been harassing you?

This will have to be phrased very, very tightly to preclude massive abuse.

NachoBusiness

Roquentin wrote: »

what defines a troll?

Their intention.

osarusan

She escaped the dreariness of Galway and now works on the cutting edge of lawmaking.

Hitchens

osarusan wrote: »

She escaped the dreariness of Galway and now works on the cutting edge of lawmaking.

Galway dreary ??????????