Rathkeale to become "100% traveller" community worker warns

Kermit.de.frog

First 100% traveller town in Ireland?


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/rathkeale-will-become-100-traveller-forum-told-1.2177272

The town of Rathkeale in Co Limerick is “dying” and will be populated 100 per cent by Travellers within 10 years because nobody else wants to live or do business there, a local community worker has said.

When even socially just community workers are saying it's a disaster then the conclusion is obvious. Finally the enlightenment of rampant political correctness? The ultimate outcome of what they preach(ed)?

Or maybe it will be a very nice bustling town? Who knows?

ChunkyLover54

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

When even socially just community workers are saying it's a disaster then the conclusion is obvious. Finally the enlightenment of rampant political correctness? The ultimate outcome of what they preach(ed)?

Google translate? Bad lip reading?

RedemptionZ

See the ironic thing is that because of the 'culture' travellers practice, their town will be much worse off for the travellers themselves once it's 100% traveller. It's not a situation where it'll be like 'ok we're all mates and the country people are gone so let's have a party', it's just gonna be huge unemployment rates, with nobody wanting to work in any of the nearby facilities and the pubs full of scraps with the local families. Too much pussyfooting with traveller families.

DVDM93

St. Peter will be doing well to hold on to the gates of this paradise.

Ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? Ooh, Rathkeale is a place on earth.

Kermit.de.frog

Even the people that defend travellers would not go to Rathkeale for a drink or a night out i'd bet (not that anyone would have gone there before but anyway). They defend them because they want to be moral and it's not their area. When they have a council application for a halting site next to them it's really interesting how the views suddenly change and the complaints fly in.

DVDM93

We could always put a dome over it like in The Simpsons Movie?!

Kermit.de.frog

The Truman Show.

DVDM93

The Walking Dead.

Dangerous Man

They're going to hate it when the settled folk come in and try to sell them carpet / steal / smash up pubs...

Kermit.de.frog

DVDM93 wrote: »

The Walking Dead.

That's junkies. Don't have to go to Rathkeale. You see that on the north side of Dublin city center every day of the week. They need taxpayer funded help too and thus are tolerated - until a meth clinic is proposed in a more middle area. Then the concern suddenly wanes.

shruikan2553

Not sure if thread is to talk about town or complain about people defending travelers/PC brigade.

DVDM93

50 Names of Ward.

DVDM93

DVDM93 wrote: »

50 Names of Ward.

*50 Shades of Grey

Kermit.de.frog

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Not sure if thread is to talk about town or complain about people defending travelers/PC brigade.

You would have to assume a community worker would tend to defend travellers being of the left persuasion typically. What is interesting here is that precondition seems to have switched with reality. It's the Irish Times too which is surprising.

My name is URL

Finally the enlightenment of rampant political correctness? The ultimate outcome of what they preach(ed)?

So how exactly are the loony lefty PC-brigade to blame for this one then? =/

The left aren't the ones that have been saying for years that travellers should all be kept separate from the rest of society, refused houses, or forced to live in ghettos.

If anything this is a dream of the right coming to fruition.

4zn76tysfajdxp

However, he also told the conference that, having travelled around much of the world, “I’ve never seen a more racist country” than Ireland.

Complete bobbins.

MathDebater

My name is URL wrote: »

So how exactly are the loony lefty PC-brigade to blame for this one then? =/

We haven't integrated the travellers in any meaningful way. The majority don't even attend our schools when they should. They grow up despising us. Why is this? If you talk to the older generation, they got on much better with the travelling people.

It wasn't the 'pc brigade' that created this status quo. It was the welfare state.

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

So how exactly are the loony lefty PC-brigade to blame for this one then? =/

The left aren't the ones that have been saying for years that travellers should all be kept separate from the rest of society, refused houses, or forced to live in ghettos.

If anything this is a dream of the right coming to fruition.

Surely the "dream of the right" would be to prevent Travellers moving en masse to a particular place and would prevent what has happened?

BlaasForRafa

MathDebater wrote: »

We haven't integrated the travellers in any meaningful way.

They haven't tried to integrate into normal society.

MathDebater wrote: »

It wasn't the 'pc brigade' that created this status quo. It was the welfare state.

No, the travellers created this status quo.

It kinda has a funny side.

For years they have been treated like second class citizens, denied access to job opportunities, education, health, even socialising in pubs, and generally marginalised. On internet forums some hate mongers even spoke of them being rounded up and put into camps or sterilised.

And the end result of this campaign sees them band together and become the majority in certain towns and areas. Much to the upset of community workers like the person in the OP. And no doubt the shrill hysteria of the hate mongers, who fear this development rather than accept it as an inevitable consequence of the policies of discrimination and oppression, and criticise that discrimination and oppression.

MathDebater

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

They haven't tried to integrate into normal society.



No, the travellers created this status quo.

You think so? If you chat to your parents and grandparents they have a completely different view of the cream crackers than we do.

In Exile

Deleted User wrote: »

And the end result of this campaign sees them band together and become the majority in certain towns and areas. Much to the upset of community workers like the person in the OP. And no doubt the shrill hysteria of the hate mongers, who fear this development rather than accept it as an inevitable consequence of the policies of discrimination and oppression, and criticise that discrimination and oppression.

You class this as a development? Have you been to Rathkeale? Or better yet, have you been to Rathkeale around Christmas time when large groups arrive back from overseas and do whatever they please?

I worked in Rathkeale for 3 years. I actually grew to really like the place by the time I left. There are a number of locals who made sure the place was well looked after. There are also a number of settled travellers who do the same.

However, over the last few years the travellers in Rathkeale have been buying up everything that goes up for sale. They are quite happy to pay an extra 25% on the asking price to make sure they get the sale. However, any business they buy then gets closed up and another boarded up building appears. The place has turned into a ghost town.

When I left there was not 1 business run by travellers in the town (I'm not talking about trades, more shop fronted places).

What will happen when the place is 100% traveller. Do you think people from the outside are going to come into the town and open businesses? Not a hope in hell. Whether it is the truth or a terrible stereotype, do you think outsiders would feel safe in a 100% traveller town? I wouldn't. Imagine trying (again using the stereotype) to secure premises and merchandise in a 100% traveller town overnight?

Whatever chance this town ever had of getting out of the hole its in, as far as I am concerned if now dead.

El_Duderino 09

Education is the problem and the solution. It's the common denominator in normal society,getting a regular stable income and living a life as part of the larger community. If someone's lifestyle means they can't attend school regularly or their culture and way of life would be threatened by education, then they are likely to end up on the fringe of society.

I'm as left as they come and I'm not blaming left or right on this issue. My parents made sure I got a decent Base in education. I don't know what would have happened if l hadn't learned to read or solve reasoning problems. All I know is that a town with a really low average education is bound to be a fairly dysfunctional place by my standards and probably the standards of most people reading this thread.

In Exile

In Exile wrote: »

You class this as a development?

Development - evolution, new stage in changing situation.

Of course the town becoming 100% traveller is a development, your own post demonstrates that, even if you contend it is a bad development.

marklazarcovic

DVDM93 wrote:

*50 Shades of Grey

Just the shades will be required

wendell borton

District 13

anncoates

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Or maybe it will be a very nice bustling town?

Bustling will certainly be one way of describing it.

pmasterson95

Is this one of TV3's new traveller reality shows? The last family standing becomes "King" of Rathkeale?

kstand

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Education is the problem and the solution. It's the common denominator in normal society,getting a regular stable income and living a life as part of the larger community. If someone's lifestyle means they can't attend school regularly or their culture and way of life would be threatened by education, then they are likely to end up on the fringe of society.

I'm as left as they come and I'm not blaming left or right on this issue. My parents made sure I got a decent Base in education. I don't know what would have happened if l hadn't learned to read or solve reasoning problems. All I know is that a town with a really low average education is bound to be a fairly dysfunctional place by my standards and probably the standards of most people reading this thread.

Very nice sentiments and I'm sure in an ideal world, you are 100% correct.
But unfortunately you are dealing with what could in circles be described as a race of people who have their own way of life and have had it for centuries - and an extremely misogynistic one at that. My wife (also Irish) is a teacher here in London, every September they will get 4 or 5 traveler girls into the school - all very capable and willing to do their work, extremely bright. Not one of those girls will be in school beyond 16 - and she has seen this for the last 7 or 8 years she is in the school she is in - they have all been married off. The place of the woman in traveler culture is in the home raising children. can you imagine if someone was standing for the election in the settled community and part of their mandate was that a womans place was in the home? There would be holy war and rightly so - yet a blind eye is turned to these very forthright attitudes within the traveller community because it is a) seen to be part of their "culture" and b) it doesn't sit well among those who wish not to tackle the issue and would prefer to see the travelers are a discriminated people. Elements within in the settled community (the much derided PC brigade as they are often referred to) that are willing the champion the cause of minority groups such as the travelers are yet able for some reason to turn a blind eye to the blatant misogyny that goes on within that community. It just goes to show you the levels of hypocrisy you are dealing with.
That's the first thing I would tackle. If the girls were able to go and get their Leaving Cert and then possibly study for 3rd Level and make lives for themselves then maybe the boys would follow suit. But you'd have a battle on your hands to achieve that.

kstand

kstand wrote: »

Very nice sentiments and I'm sure in an ideal world, you are 100% correct.
But unfortunately you are dealing with what could in circles be described as a race of people who have their own way of life and have had it for centuries - and an extremely misogynistic one at that. My wife (also Irish) is a teacher here in London, every September they will get 4 or 5 traveler girls into the school - all very capable and willing to do their work, extremely bright. Not one of those girls will be in school beyond 16 - and she has seen this for the last 7 or 8 years she is in the school she is in - they have all been married off. The place of the woman in traveler culture is in the home raising children. can you imagine if someone was standing for the election in the settled community and part of their mandate was that a womans place was in the home? There would be holy war and rightly so - yet a blind eye is turned to these very forthright attitudes within the traveller community because it is a) seen to be part of their "culture" and b) it doesnt sit well among those who wish not to tackle the issue and would prefer to see the travelers are a discriminated people. Elements within in the settled community (the much derided PC brigade as they are often referred to) that are willing the champion the cause of minority groups such as the travelers yet turn a blind eye to the blatant misogyny that goes on within that community.
That's the first thing I would tackle. If the girls were able to go and get their Leaving Cert and then possibly study for 3rd Level and make lives for themselves then maybe the boys would follow suit. But you'd have a battle on your hands to achieve that.

Holy war is apt. Cos is it a not a small bit like saying "Muslims, treat your women better, people from patriarchal societies, be more like us settled western folk"?

It recites what we see and say is a problem...but by and large they don't seem to.

kstand

Deleted User wrote: »

Holy war is apt. Cos is it a not a small bit like saying "Muslims, treat your women better, people from patriarchal societies, be more like us settled western folk"?

It recites what we see and say is a problem...but by and large they don't seem to.

It is one of the reasons why I feel that the west and Islam is utterly diametrically opposed - the cultures are in many cases an antithesis of each other. I honestly don't know how Islam can integrate into a fully free western society.
However that is for another debate and this one is about Rathkeale.
It has been the sort of elephant in the room in the traveler debate over the last few years - and one that is not going to go away either.
Can anyone on here say that they would either:
a) buy a house in Rathkeale
b) set up a business in Rathkeale

traprunner

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

That's junkies. Don't have to go to Rathkeale. You see that on the north side of Dublin city center every day of the week. They need taxpayer funded help too and thus are tolerated - until a meth clinic is proposed in a more middle area. Then the concern suddenly wanes.

They have extended to the south side now. Commonly seen on Grafton Street these days.

traprunner

I've been on a few nights out in Rathkeale and at a wedding there (not a traveller one). The place was much safer at night than most other towns I've been in. There is a distinct separation between the two communities for night life anyway. Both have their own pubs.

BlatentCheek

Interesting article in that it's basically a press release for some attempt by "prominent Rathkeale-based Traveller and businessman Richard Kerry O’Brien" to get more of taxpayers money for some dubious "community co-ordination".

Of course Mr O'Brien appears to place all the blame for Rathkeale's situation on settled people. Some excerpts:

"the town’s main hope was “if the two communities pull together"".

"He said he was “horrified” when he first arrived to work in Rathkeale some years ago by some of the treatment to which Travellers were subjected.""

"However, he also told the conference that, having travelled around much of the world, “I’ve never seen a more racist country” than Ireland".

"But while equality legislation outlawing discrimination was now on our statute books, “the question is how do we change our own hearts”".

No mention of the crime, intimidation, anti-social behaviour and blatant breaches of planning law carried out by Travellers; or how this drove from Rathkeale people whose families may have lived there for generations.

Instead the problem is presented merely as one where settled people's bigotry threatens the future of the town.

This nonsense does nothing to help Travellers, whose problems at this stage are largely due to their culture and lifestyle.

whisky_galore

In Exile wrote: »

You class this as a development? Have you been to Rathkeale? Or better yet, have you been to Rathkeale around Christmas time when large groups arrive back from overseas and do whatever they please?

I worked in Rathkeale for 3 years. I actually grew to really like the place by the time I left. There are a number of locals who made sure the place was well looked after. There are also a number of settled travellers who do the same.

However, over the last few years the travellers in Rathkeale have been buying up everything that goes up for sale. They are quite happy to pay an extra 25% on the asking price to make sure they get the sale. However, any business they buy then gets closed up and another boarded up building appears. The place has turned into a ghost town.

When I left there was not 1 business run by travellers in the town (I'm not talking about trades, more shop fronted places).

What will happen when the place is 100% traveller. Do you think people from the outside are going to come into the town and open businesses? Not a hope in hell. Whether it is the truth or a terrible stereotype, do you think outsiders would feel safe in a 100% traveller town? I wouldn't. Imagine trying (again using the stereotype) to secure premises and merchandise in a 100% traveller town overnight?

Whatever chance this town ever had of getting out of the hole its in, as far as I am concerned if now dead.

It's going to become little other than a dormitory town for those that live there (nominally) for most of the year and a 'holiday village' for those who come back at Christmas. Why bother integrating when you can just take a place over?

traprunner

BlatentCheek wrote: »

Interesting article in that it's basically a press release for some attempt by "prominent Rathkeale-based Traveller and businessman Richard Kerry O’Brien" to get more of taxpayers money for some dubious "community co-ordination".

Of course Mr O'Brien appears to place all the blame for Rathkeale's situation on settled people. Some excerpts:

"the town’s main hope was “if the two communities pull together"".

"He said he was “horrified” when he first arrived to work in Rathkeale some years ago by some of the treatment to which Travellers were subjected.""

"However, he also told the conference that, having travelled around much of the world, “I’ve never seen a more racist country” than Ireland".

"But while equality legislation outlawing discrimination was now on our statute books, “the question is how do we change our own hearts”".

No mention of the crime, intimidation, anti-social behaviour and blatant breaches of planning law carried out by Travellers; or how this drove from Rathkeale people whose families may have lived there for generations.

Instead the problem is presented merely as one where settled people's bigotry threatens the future of the town.

This nonsense does nothing to help Travellers, whose problems at this stage are largely due to their culture and lifestyle.

Yeah, I was just thinking that there was no mention of the forced house sales that have happened and are probably still happening.

BlatentCheek

BlatentCheek wrote: »

No mention of the crime, intimidation, anti-social behaviour and blatant breaches of planning law carried out by Travellers; or how this drove from Rathkeale people whose families may have lived there for generations.

People were driven out by "blatant breaches of planning law"?

Strange. Why didn't they just stay and object?

Tell them don't come South to Kerry. Our hills are alive with beaches of the planning law.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

He really hasnt travelled very far if he thinks Ireland is one of the most racist country's in the world.

El_Duderino 09

kstand wrote: »

But unfortunately you are dealing with what could in circles be described as a race of people who have their own way of life and have had it for centuries - and an extremely misogynistic one at that.
That's the first thing I would tackle. If the girls were able to go and get their Leaving Cert and then possibly study for 3rd Level and make lives for themselves then maybe the boys would follow suit. But you'd have a battle on your hands to achieve that.

Unfortunately I think you're right and I agree with you.

Education changes how people behave and what they expect from life. I think travellers have defined their culture and community in such a way that education would destroy their culture and disperse their community. In any culture, standard of living and education of women are correlated. As long as travellers insist on limiting 'their women's' education, they are destined to have below average life expectancy and quality of life.

In Exile

In Exile wrote: »

I However, over the last few years the travellers in Rathkeale have been buying up everything that goes up for sale. They are quite happy to pay an extra 25% on the asking price to make sure they get the sale.

25% more?

traprunner wrote: »

Yeah, I was just thinking that there was no mention of the forced house sales that have happened and are probably still happening.

Forced sales?

Someone is telling porkies. Because getting a premium seems to be the opposite of a forced sale.

traprunner

Deleted User wrote: »

Forced sales?

Someone is telling porkies. Because getting a premium seems to be the opposite of a forced sale.

Yes, two options...1. Sell to us, or; 2. We drive you out. The quantity of money offered which could be higher than the open market value doesn't come into it when people have lived in a family home for decades.

dricko_lim

traprunner wrote: »

I've been on a few nights out in Rathkeale and at a wedding there (not a traveller one). The place was much safer at night than most other towns I've been in. There is a distinct separation between the two communities for night life anyway. Both have their own pubs.

I live in Rathkeale and the talk of travellers taking over is bolox. Neither do they buy up everything. Theres plenty for sale in the town. I'm only living there a few years as my wife is from Rathkeale. They keep to themselves most the time. Christmas is mad when they arrive home but its still grand. Once you get used to them just driving up and down the town all day it makes no difference. I feel safer in Rathkeale than I do in most places and i'm quite happy to raise my daughter there!

Its got a bad name I admit but if you actually go there, there is a big population of locals who all know and look out for each other, no trouble and a great community spirit.

BlatentCheek

Deleted User wrote: »

People were driven out by "blatant breaches of planning law"?

Do you deny that ugly and dangerous buildings erected without planning permission make a place less desirable to live in?

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange. Why didn't they just stay and object?

I would speculate that they feared retribution from those whom they would object against and/or had little faith in the Council's enforcement of planning law against Travellers. Both would be well-founded fears.

Deleted User wrote: »

Tell them don't come South to Kerry. Our hills are alive with beaches of the planning law.

I agree that it's a problem everywhere but comparing Kerry to Rathkeale is ridiculous.

kneemos

dricko_lim wrote: »

I live in Rathkeale and the talk of travellers taking over is bolox. Neither do they buy up everything. Theres plenty for sale in the town. I'm only living there a few years as my wife is from Rathkeale. They keep to themselves most the time. Christmas is mad when they arrive home but its still grand. Once you get used to them just driving up and down the town all day it makes no difference. I feel safer in Rathkeale than I do in most places and i'm quite happy to raise my daughter there!

Its got a bad name I admit but if you actually go there, there is a big population of locals who all know and look out for each other, no trouble and a great community spirit.

Preconceptions will outweigh your reality I'm afraid.

Like a bout between Ali and Barry McGuigan.

Turtyturd

traprunner wrote: »

They have extended to the south side now. Commonly seen on Grafton Street these days.

Tara street is probably the worst place in town for them, but he has a hard on for North Dublin.

BlatentCheek

BlatentCheek wrote: »

Do you deny that ugly and dangerous buildings erected without planning permission make a place less desirable to live in?

I would speculate that they feared retribution from those whom they would object against and/or had little faith in the Council's enforcement of planning law against Travellers. Both would be well-founded fears.

I agree that it's a problem everywhere but comparing Kerry to Rathkeale is ridiculous.

Here you go, someone who lives there and refers to such talk as "bolox".

dricko_lim wrote: »

I live in Rathkeale and the talk of travellers taking over is bolox. Neither do they buy up everything. Theres plenty for sale in the town. I'm only living there a few years as my wife is from Rathkeale. They keep to themselves most the time. Christmas is mad when they arrive home but its still grand. Once you get used to them just driving up and down the town all day it makes no difference. I feel safer in Rathkeale than I do in most places and i'm quite happy to raise my daughter there!

Its got a bad name I admit but if you actually go there, there is a big population of locals who all know and look out for each other, no trouble and a great community spirit.

BlatentCheek

Deleted User wrote: »

Here you go, someone who lives there and refers to such talk as "bolox".

Well if an anonymous internet man says it that's good enough for me.

Thanks for engaging with my points.

Desolation Of Smug

dricko_lim wrote: »

I live in Rathkeale and the talk of travellers taking over is bolox. Neither do they buy up everything. Theres plenty for sale in the town. I'm only living there a few years as my wife is from Rathkeale. They keep to themselves most the time. Christmas is mad when they arrive home but its still grand. Once you get used to them just driving up and down the town all day it makes no difference. I feel safer in Rathkeale than I do in most places and i'm quite happy to raise my daughter there!

Its got a bad name I admit but if you actually go there, there is a big population of locals who all know and look out for each other, no trouble and a great community spirit.

I was kinda waiting for a post like this - I worked down beside Rathkeale for a lot of last year and found the place to be grand. No trouble, no hassle and the place is kept looking pretty well.

smash

You know how the cities look when you watch the walking dead? That's how Rathkeale's gonna look...

galljga1

I'm terrible partial to the periwinkle blue.

kneemos

smash wrote: »

You know how the cities look when you watch the walking dead? That's how Rathkeale's gonna look...

People who live there say it's grand .
I'll go with their opinions.