VRT - Leased car

ShowMeTheCash

Does anyone know what happens if you lease a car in NI and live and use the car is the state?

Atlantic Dawn

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Does anyone know what happens if you lease a car in NI and live and use the car is the state?

You can't, no resident can drive a foreign registered car even if it's a rented one.

Marcusm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Does anyone know what happens if you lease a car in NI and live and use the car is the state?

There's no specific exemption for it; is it an employer provided car?

If you've negotiated the lease yourelf, how on earth did they agree to provide it to a customer with an RoI main residence.

ShowMeTheCash

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

You can't, no resident can drive a foreign registered car even if it's a rented one.

Wait so if I am on holday in Derry I cannot rent a car in Derry?
Or I can rent a car I just cannot drive it in the state?

If I work for a company in NI and have a company car registered to the company but reside in Donegal I cannot drive that car in the state?

whomitconcerns

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Wait so if I am on holday in Derry I cannot rent a car in Derry?
Or I can rent a car I just cannot drive it in the state?

If I work for a company in NI and have a company car registered to the company but reside in Donegal I cannot drive that car in the state?

you can hire and drive in Derry as its in the "UK", but no you cant drive it south of the border.

On the latter point there are certain exeptions if you live near the border and work for a Northern company...but Im not up on how that works.

ShowMeTheCash

Marcusm wrote: »

There's no specific exemption for it; is it an employer provided car?

If you've negotiated the lease yourelf, how on earth did they agree to provide it to a customer with an RoI main residence.

Some of the boarder counties will let you do it, sometimes they need a place of work to be in NI etc.. Or you pay a larger deposit.

I have never leased a car long term only things like a van if I needed to more furniture.

ShowMeTheCash

whomitconcerns wrote: »

you can hire and drive in Derry as its in the "UK", but no you cant drive it south of the border.

On the latter point there are certain exeptions if you live near the border and work for a Northern company...but Im not up on how that works.

Do you know under what law the above is under? Also who inforces it?
I can rent a car in England and drive it to Spain but I cannot rent a car in NI and drive it to Dublin?

whomitconcerns

Its the revenue commisioners, and is enforced by the gardai

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html
and specifically
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1993/en/si/0060.html

10. Can a State resident drive a foreign registered vehicle for business use?
A State resident can not normally drive a foreign registered vehicle for business use. However, there are a number of exceptional circumstances in which this rule does not apply. Those exceptional circumstances are:-

A State resident who is employed by an employer established in another Member State may, on application to the Revenue Commissioners, be approved to use a Category A vehicle or a motor-cycle registered in another Member State (either owned or leased by the employer) for business/private use in the State provided
the vehicle is provided as part of the contract of the employment, and
it is used principally for business use outside the State.
Application forms for this temporary exemption are available from any Revenue Office.

A State resident who is employed by an employer established in another Member State is eligible to use Category B & C vehicles registered in another Member State (either owned or leased by the employer) for business/private use in the State.
A State resident who is an employee of a car-hire firm established outside the State is allowed to drive a vehicle for the purpose of returning it to the firm after the vehicle was left in the State on expiry of a hire contract.
In other circumstances where authorised in writing by the Revenue Commissioners.

CiniO

whomitconcerns wrote: »

you can hire and drive in Derry as its in the "UK", but no you cant drive it south of the border.

This while true, would probably win a contest for most ridiculous motoring laws in EU if there was one.
I wonder if anywhere else such limitations exist.

keithclancy

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Do you know under what law the above is under? Also who inforces it?
I can rent a car in England and drive it to Spain but I cannot rent a car in NI but cannot drive it to Dublin?

Yup. That's exactly it.

I'm Irish with a Dutch residence staying temporarily in Ireland and can rent a UK car and drive it in the republic. I could not however rent a car in Germany / Belgium and drive it in the Netherlands (unless I apply for an exemption first)

For work cars I think its only possible if you use the car mainly for work (e.g. travelling salesman/field engineer) if you use it most of the time for private use you need to pay registration tax.

Only ones that will know for sure is the tax office.

If you have the car already then I would say you are in a sticky situation and should leave the car parked up until you work out exactly what you need to do.

Last thing you want is a demand at the roadside for payment or your car going up on a loader

Edit: Ya same as the Dutch Rules:

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html

A State resident can not normally drive a foreign registered vehicle for business use. However, there are a number of exceptional circumstances in which this rule does not apply. Those exceptional circumstances are:-

A State resident who is employed by an employer established in another Member State may, on application to the Revenue Commissioners, be approved to use a Category A vehicle or a motor-cycle registered in another Member State (either owned or leased by the employer) for business/private use in the State provided
the vehicle is provided as part of the contract of the employment, and
it is used principally for business use outside the State.

Only difference is when renting a Car in a different country the Dutch allow 2 weeks per license plate per year that you just fill out online before driving in the Netherlands, think it was necessary to satisfy the free movement of goods thing, perhaps Revenue have a similar offline version.

ShowMeTheCash

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Its the revenue commisioners, and is enforced by the guardai

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html


10. Can a State resident drive a foreign registered vehicle for business use?
A State resident can not normally drive a foreign registered vehicle for business use. However, there are a number of exceptional circumstances in which this rule does not apply. Those exceptional circumstances are:-

A State resident who is employed by an employer established in another Member State may, on application to the Revenue Commissioners, be approved to use a Category A vehicle or a motor-cycle registered in another Member State (either owned or leased by the employer) for business/private use in the State provided
the vehicle is provided as part of the contract of the employment, and
it is used principally for business use outside the State.
Application forms for this temporary exemption are available from any Revenue Office.

A State resident who is employed by an employer established in another Member State is eligible to use Category B & C vehicles registered in another Member State (either owned or leased by the employer) for business/private use in the State.
A State resident who is an employee of a car-hire firm established outside the State is allowed to drive a vehicle for the purpose of returning it to the firm after the vehicle was left in the State on expiry of a hire contract.
In other circumstances where authorised in writing by the Revenue Commissioners.

This does not really answer the question, it is talking about exception for business or commercial use, and other scenarios where you need to import a vehicle into the state.

But I see nothing here if I just rent a car in Northern Ireland and drive it in the state?

CiniO

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

If I work for a company in NI and have a company car registered to the company but reside in Donegal I cannot drive that car in the state?

You actually can, after obtaining exception from revenue to which you are entitled.

whomitconcerns

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

This does not really answer the question, it is talking about exception for business or commercial use, and other scenarios where you need to import a vehicle into the state.

But I see nothing here if I just rent a car in Northern Ireland and drive it in the state?

It covers it...you can read the finance act to find the full details...but it is covered..You cannot drive any foreign registered car at any time (subject to exemptions)

Finance Act 1992
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1992/en/act/pub/0009/index.html#zza9y1992

ShowMeTheCash

CiniO wrote: »

You actually can, after obtaining exception from revenue to which you are entitled.

OK cool I did not know this.

keithclancy

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

But I see nothing here if I just rent a car in Northern Ireland and drive it in the state?

It covers everything by saying cars not registered in the state, which would include rental cars.

whomitconcerns

found it...and to clarify by unregistered they mean on foreign plates

Section 139.3 of finance act
(3) It shall be an offence under this subsection for a person, in respect of a vehicle in the State—

(a) to be in possession of the vehicle if it is unregistered unless he is an authorised person or the vehicle is the subject of an exemption under section 135 for the time being in force and the vehicle is being used in accordance with any conditions, restrictions or limitations referred to in section 135

(5) A vehicle in respect of which an offence under subsection (3) was committed shall be liable to forfeiture.

ShowMeTheCash

whomitconcerns wrote: »

It covers it...you can read the finance act to find the full details...but it is covered..You cannot drive any foreign registered car at any time (subject to exemptions)

Finance Act 1992
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1992/en/act/pub/0009/index.html#zza9y1992

OK it might take me a while to read through this but I am doubious about this.

whomitconcerns

see my last post i had a few mins to spare :P

ShowMeTheCash

whomitconcerns wrote: »

see my last post i had a few mins to spare :P

Yeah I only read it after.

So this is interesting there is a TD down home campaigning around this.

The part "Shall be liable to forfeiture".

What is being said is this is not enforceable under EU law, I do not know the details but it has been suggest if the Irish revenue take a leased car which does not belong to driver it is essenitally theft.

Marcusm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Yeah I only read it after.

So this is interesting there is a TD down home campaigning around this.

The part "Shall be liable to forfeiture".

What is being said is this is not enforceable under EU law, I do not know the details but it has been suggest if the Irish revenue take a leased car which does not belong to driver it is essenitally theft.

It won't be"theft" as they don't plan to hang on to it (permanently deprive the owner of the benefit of it in legal terminology). However, they are perfectly entitled to remove it from your possession. They will hand over possession to the rightful owner on request. The "exemptions" are designed to cater for most day to day requirements for cross border workers to ensure that they do not restrict fundamental freedoms or unduly restrict freedom of movement, establishment or labour. Hence the generally available exemption for work vehicles to be used mainly in the other member state. Providing you with an NI registered car to travel from RoI home to NI work or for use by your spouse is unlikely to be looked upon favourably.

ShowMeTheCash

Marcusm wrote: »

It won't be"theft" as they don't plan to hang on to it (permanently deprive the owner of the benefit of it in legal terminology). However, they are perfectly entitled to remove it from your possession. They will hand over possession to the rightful owner on request. The "exemptions" are designed to cater for most day to day requirements for cross border workers to ensure that they do not restrict fundamental freedoms or unduly restrict freedom of movement, establishment or labour. Hence the generally available exemption for work vehicles to be used mainly in the other member state. Providing you with an NI registered car to travel from RoI home to NI work or for use by your spouse is unlikely to be looked upon favourably.

This does not seem so clear cut

So here is a guy using his brothers car in the state, custom officer seized the car. Which according to everything above would be legit however:

http://www.derryjournal.com/news/courts/customs-officers-were-not-entitled-to-seize-car-for-vrt-1-6305338


He said the evidence was that the vehicle was on “temporary loan” on “several and frequent occasions.”

Judge Kelly said Mr Smyth’s evidence “satisfies” him that the car was not permanently based in the Republic of Ireland.

He referred to a European Court of Justice ruling, which stated borrowed vehicles are not subject to VRT and said a ruling from the Finance Act 1992 makes “no provision for this type and circumstance” and pre-dates the ruling.

Judge Kelly said the customs officers, who were “acting in good faith” were “not entitled to seize the vehicle” and therefore, Doherty could not be guilty of obstruction or impeding their powers, as they did not have these powers in this particular case.

So if I rent a car for 2 months would this not be seen as temporary?

ardmacha

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

So if I rent a car for 2 months would this not be seen as temporary?

No. There is a difference between someone lending someone a car occasionally when the owner didn't need it, and a 26 county resident leasing a car and having control of it for 2 months. If you are basically trying to evade tax then you are not entitled to do this.

mgbgt1978

whomitconcerns wrote: »

you can hire and drive in Derry as its in the "UK", but no you cant drive it south of the border.

On the latter point there are certain exeptions if you live near the border and work for a Northern company...but Im not up on how that works.

I doubt this very much.
How 'near the border' must you reside, for example ?

Marcusm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

This does not seem so clear cut

So here is a guy using his brothers car in the state, custom officer seized the car. Which according to everything above would be legit however:

http://www.derryjournal.com/news/courts/customs-officers-were-not-entitled-to-seize-car-for-vrt-1-6305338


He said the evidence was that the vehicle was on “temporary loan” on “several and frequent occasions.”

Judge Kelly said Mr Smyth’s evidence “satisfies” him that the car was not permanently based in the Republic of Ireland.

He referred to a European Court of Justice ruling, which stated borrowed vehicles are not subject to VRT and said a ruling from the Finance Act 1992 makes “no provision for this type and circumstance” and pre-dates the ruling.

Judge Kelly said the customs officers, who were “acting in good faith” were “not entitled to seize the vehicle” and therefore, Doherty could not be guilty of obstruction or impeding their powers, as they did not have these powers in this particular case.

So if I rent a car for 2 months would this not be seen as temporary?

It's a DC case so of no precedent value; it would be interesting to know how much time the DJ spent or whether he felt an obstruction charge for someone occasionally driving his relation's car was way excessive. Irrespective, it's of no assistance in your case - you want to be the only controller of the car (the lesse) and temporary importation relief (which was availed of by the Welshman in this case) would not be available to you when you imported the car.

ardmacha

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

I doubt this very much.
How 'near the border' must you reside, for example ?

Near enough to work for the company? The point here is that employee resident south of the border may have the vehicle on the same basis as those north of the border, if it genuinely used for work. A company offering an employee south of the border a car on a different basis than other employees wouldn't cut it.

mgbgt1978

So I could commute from Kerry so, by this logic.....:rolleyes:.

whomitconcerns claims there are "certain exemptions" for those who live near the Border which allow them to drive NI registered cars ......still waiting for some proof, and a statute relating to how near the border one must reside.

ardmacha

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

So I could commute from Kerry so, by this logic.....:rolleyes:.

In this case you would not be spending much time at work, so there would have to a doubt about the credibility of your application for relief.

whomitconcerns claims there are "certain exemptions" for those who live near the Border which allow them to drive NI registered cars ......still waiting for some proof, and a statute relating to how near the border one must reside.

There are no exemptions for people living near the border. There are exemptions for persons using work vehicles owned by employers outside the State. More of these people live near the border than anywhere else.

keithclancy

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

So I could commute from Kerry so, by this logic.....:rolleyes:.

whomitconcerns claims there are "certain exemptions" for those who live near the Border which allow them to drive NI registered cars ......still waiting for some proof, and a statute relating to how near the border one must reside.

It's just logic... who in their right mind would travel on a daily basis over the border from kerry and use their car for work ?

You just have to prove you use your car primarily for work in the other country.

Most companies would just put it on a lease in the country of the employee.

R.O.R

The exemption is for a driver who lives in NI, but uses their vehicle predominantly for work in NI. Revenue are very tight on issuing this exemption and an official letter is to be carried in the vehicle at all times.

One of my customers has an ROI based driver who works in the North, and they have such an exemption for this.

We actually have a car that really should be with an NI provider, as the driver lives ROI (couple of miles from the border), but her work is all NI. Causes us all sorts of issues with service/tyres etc, as we can't get that done in NI, so driver has to travel miles to nearest ROI dealership. She also gets forgotten about for things like Insurance discs as she's the only UK employee in an ROI car, so tends to fall through the gaps in process.

ShowMeTheCash

ardmacha wrote: »

No. There is a difference between someone lending someone a car occasionally when the owner didn't need it, and a 26 county resident leasing a car and having control of it for 2 months. If you are basically trying to evade tax then you are not entitled to do this.

What tax is being evaded?

I go an answer to this last night as I spoke to someone who does this and was confronted with Customs and Excise.

In short you can do this, no laws are being broken and Customs cannot take the car from you.

I will try and find out the details to the why later today.

ShowMeTheCash

Marcusm wrote: »

It's a DC case so of no precedent value; it would be interesting to know how much time the DJ spent or whether he felt an obstruction charge for someone occasionally driving his relation's car was way excessive. Irrespective, it's of no assistance in your case - you want to be the only controller of the car (the lesse) and temporary importation relief (which was availed of by the Welshman in this case) would not be available to you when you imported the car.

Does not say occasionally it says several and frequent.

It does appear to be a gray area and there seem to be conflicting laws. It is very apparent that the state has tried to close a number of loop holes to ensure that members of the state can only purchase vehicles in the state and ensure that all taxes on said vehicles are being recouped by the state.

This however becomes muddled when the car does not belong to you.
i.e. Renting a car or borrowing a car.

Legally on a lease you would not be allowed to import the car, that car does not belong to you so that was never an issue.

As already stated I was more concerned around could the car be taken from you, again as the car is technically not your car at worst they take the car and hand it back to the lease company.

But it turns out they cannot do either.

R.O.R

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

As already stated I was more converned around could the car be taken from you, again as the car is technically not your car at worst they take the car and hand it back to the lease company.

But it turns out they cannot do either.

Go ahead and test that, and let us know what the walk home was like after the foreign lease car was impounded.

ShowMeTheCash

R.O.R wrote: »

Go ahead and test that, and let us know what the walk home was like after the foreign lease car was impounded.

This was a theoritical question both my cars are registed in Donegal and I have no intention of renting a foreign leased car, question was could I and if not why? What specfic law am I breaking.

whomitconcerns did point to a lot of the laws around this but it was still a little vague around a leased car or rented car the news report shows thats if the car is not your car or spends most of its time out of the state then or you have it on a temporary basis then there is no obligation to pay VRT so you are breaking no laws.

No need to get uppity! As I said this is a gray area if you do not know you do not know! If you do know there has to be a specific law or reason given I was wondering if anyone knew specifically what?

Also Customs cannot put you out of the car nor can they take the keys from you they can only ask you to get out and ask you for the keys.
In the news article they guy was up for obstructing the Customs officers in that he refused to give them the car. Just turns out they had no legal right to do so.

Marcusm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

This was a theoritical question both my cars are registed in Donegal and I have no intention of renting a foreign leased car, question was could I and if not why? What specfic law am I breaking.

whomitconcerns did point to a lot of the laws around this but it was still a little vague around a leased car or rented car the news report shows thats if the car is not your car or spends most of its time out of the state then or you have it on a temporary basis then there is no obligation to pay VRT so you are breaking no laws.

No need to get uppity! As I said this is a gray area if you do not know you do not know! If you do know there has to be a specific law or reason given I was wondering if anyone knew specifically what?

Also Customs cannot put you out of the car nor can they take the keys from you they can only ask you to get out and ask you for the keys.
In the news article they guy was up for obstructing the Customs officers in that he refused to give them the car. Just turns out they had no legal right to do so.

You are extrapolating way too much from an NI press report of a District Court case. From a legal perspective, your situation would be very different - a foreign resident would not have imported the car and occasionally permitted you to drive it. Instead, you will have imported the car and will be the principal driver. You may not appreciate the difference but it is very significant.

Spook_ie

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

This was a theoritical question both my cars are registed in Donegal and I have no intention of renting a foreign leased car, question was could I and if not why? What specfic law am I breaking.

whomitconcerns did point to a lot of the laws around this but it was still a little vague around a leased car or rented car the news report shows thats if the car is not your car or spends most of its time out of the state then or you have it on a temporary basis then there is no obligation to pay VRT so you are breaking no laws.

No need to get uppity! As I said this is a gray area if you do not know you do not know! If you do know there has to be a specific law or reason given I was wondering if anyone knew specifically what?

Also Customs cannot put you out of the car nor can they take the keys from you they can only ask you to get out and ask you for the keys.
In the news article they guy was up for obstructing the Customs officers in that he refused to give them the car. Just turns out they had no legal right to do so.

Maybe not with customs officers, but can a Gard ask for you to produce insurance details etc and if not satisfied impound the vehicle? Then if you are found to be driving a car that wasn't exempt be reported for that to revenue with the consequences, hence why you see more and more multi agency checkpoints near the borders

ShowMeTheCash

Marcusm wrote: »

You are extrapolating way too much from an NI press report of a District Court case. From a legal perspective, your situation would be very different - a foreign resident would not have imported the car and occasionally permitted you to drive it. Instead, you will have imported the car and will be the principal driver. You may not appreciate the difference but it is very significant.

In order to import a car you need to be the owner so if I rent the car I cannot imported it into the state.

So you think if i rented a car for 2 weeks I would be liable?
Considering 1 the car will go back and 2 usually you have 30 days to import a vehicle?

What is to stop me renting a different car every month?

ShowMeTheCash

Spook_ie wrote: »

Maybe not with customs officers, but can a Gard ask for you to produce insurance details etc and if not satisfied impound the vehicle? Then if you are found to be driving a car that wasn't exempt be reported for that to revenue with the consequences, hence why you see more and more multi agency checkpoints near the borders

Yeah not having insurance with any car would result in the same.
You can be insured in a NI reg car and live in the state that is not an issue.

ShowMeTheCash

Kind of going in circles with this

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html

Specifically

Any imported vehicle which is owned by or registered in the name of a non-resident person is not required to be registered in Ireland subject to the following conditions:

The vehicle must have been acquired with all the appropriate taxes paid and these must not have been exempted or refunded in any way. The standard registration plates in use in the domestic market of a country are normally accepted as evidence of this.

The vehicle may not in any circumstances be driven by a State resident.

The vehicle may not be disposed of or hired out in the State or lent to a State resident.

The period of time that the vehicle is in the State does not exceed 12 months.
A longer period may apply where a person is on a task of definite duration in the State.

The two highlighted seem to suggest that under no circumstances can you borrow or drive a car even if it belongs to someone else.

However it appears if challenged that in cases this is not legally accurate.

keithclancy

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

So you think if i rented a car for 2 weeks I would be liable?

You'd be liable the second you crossed the border unless you had an exemption

ShowMeTheCash

keithclancy wrote: »

You'd be liable the second you crossed the border unless you had an exemption

You are not liable, you cannot be it's not your car.
The rules according to the revenue is that you are not allowed to do it.

It's a werid scenario and there seems to be a contradiciton in the laws around this.

Yes the revenue say you cannot do it, but what is the consquence if you do?
OK perhaps there is a scenario the car is seized but they cannot keep the car it belongs to a hire company...

R.O.R

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

You are not liable, you cannot be it's not your car.
The rules according to the revenue is that you are not allowed to do it.

It's a werid scenario and there seems to be a contradiciton in the laws around this.

Yes the revenue say you cannot do it, but what is the consquence if you do?
OK perhaps there is a scenario the car is seized but they cannot keep the car it belongs to a hire company...

Revenue will keep the car, until it's recovered by it's legal owner (in this case the rental company), and you'd be landed with the hire costs until the vehicle is ready to go back on the road, and more than likely a substantial charge to recover the car from Revenue.

Revenue have all sorts of legal powers, and really are not the folks to trifle with.

In reality, you'd probably get away with for a couple of weeks. If you were doing it on a long term basis and came to the attention of Revenue or the Gardaí, I suspect you'd be stopped fairly quickly.

ShowMeTheCash

R.O.R wrote: »

Revenue will keep the car, until it's recovered by it's legal owner (in this case the rental company), and you'd be landed with the hire costs until the vehicle is ready to go back on the road, and more than likely a substantial charge to recover the car from Revenue.

Revenue have all sorts of legal powers, and really are not the folks to trifle with.

In reality, you'd probably get away with for a couple of weeks. If you were doing it on a long term basis and came to the attention of Revenue or the Gardaí, I suspect you'd be stopped fairly quickly.

We are into new territory to that what the revenue might do or can do and you like myself are now guessing!

This is an interesting read


https://www.ombudsman.gov.ie/en/Publications/Investigation-Reports/government-departments-other-public-bodies/The-Revenue-Commissioners-and-Random-Car-Seizures/Revenue-Commissioners-and-Random-Car-Seizures.pdf

The complaint concerned the circumstances
in which a foreign registered car was detained and seized by officers of the
Customs and Excise and the penalty that had to be paid, in order to secure the
release of the car.
The Ombudsman found:
 that in detaining and seizing the car, Revenue failed to follow its own
procedures and that these actions of detention and seizure, were contrary to
fair or sound administration;
 that the complainants suffered adverse affect arising from the imposition of a
financial penalty, and the time and trouble taken to deal with the events
complained of, and
 that in its dealings with these clients, the Revenue failed to follow its own
procedures in relation to proper record keeping.
The Revenue Commissioners accepted the Ombudsman’s findings and
recommendations.

I have not yet read all of it.

ninty9er

Rental cars can and very often are driven in a jurisdiction other than that in which they are registered, subject to the normal place of residence of the renter not being the state in which they are driving a vehicle not registered there.

I can't believe this thread has gotten legs to this extent.

keithclancy

ninty9er wrote: »

Rental cars can and very often are driven in a jurisdiction other than that in which they are registered, subject to the normal place of residence of the renter not being the state in which they are driving a vehicle not registered there.

I can't believe this thread has gotten legs to this extent.

Yes that's 100% clear.

If for example myself and my Irish buddy go up north I can drive a UK Registered rental car in the republic no problem. My Irish resident buddy cannot just like he cannot drive my Dutch registered car at all.

Just like if he came to the Germany and we rented a car, he can drive the car in the Netherlands no problem, whereas my being a Dutch resident would have the car seized.

And yes it happens, had a Dutch colleague that had a Sixt rental seized by the Belastingdienst, company had to step in and sort everything out.

ardmacha

This thread is going nowhere. If resident in the State you need to drive a car registered in the State, whether you rent it, buy it or lease it is neither here nor there. End of.

keithclancy wrote:

If for example myself and my Irish buddy go up north I can drive a UK Registered rental car in the republic no problem. My Irish resident buddy cannot just like he cannot drive my Dutch registered car at all.

And if your Irish resident mate goes to visit you and wants to use a German registered rental, that is no problem for him, but you could not.

keithclancy

ardmacha wrote: »

This thread is going nowhere. If resident in the State you need to drive a car registered in the State, whether you rent it, buy it or lease it is neither here nor there. End of.



And if your Irish resident mate goes to visit you and wants to use a German registered rental, that is no problem for him, but you could not.

In the Netherlands yes (unless I apply for an exemption)

jimmycrackcorm

I worked with a girl living on the southern side of the border who drive an NI reg SUV. I asked her how she managed to get away with it....

She told me her next door neighbour worked for Irish customs but his wife drove an NI car.

Marcusm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

In order to import a car you need to be the owner so if I rent the car I cannot imported it into the state.

So you think if i rented a car for 2 weeks I would be liable?
Considering 1 the car will go back and 2 usually you have 30 days to import a vehicle?

What is to stop me renting a different car every month?

Driving it across the border is the act of importation.

ShowMeTheCash

Marcusm wrote: »

Driving it across the border is the act of importation.

And driving back over the boarder means what?

I get what you are saying but it is a stupid and why in many cases it is not enforceable.

ShowMeTheCash

Just a little update:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-5355_en.htm

So European Commission is saying Ireland is not inline with car tax on rented and leased vehicles.

In short it is saying if you rent a car for 2 weeks the irish revenue cannot nor should not be trying to get you to pay the full VRT for the vehicle.

I think what they are saying is, it should be a sliding scale.
Take the value of the car and the full taxation and apply a % of that cost vrs the time the car is to be spent in the state.

I guess perhaps the way to do it would be to look at the value of the vehicle upon entering the state and the value leaving.

i.e. 10K coming in 8K going back so you pay the % on the 2K not the full 10K


Could you imagine that all euro zone countries done what Ireland does?
And you decided to take a driving holiday across Europe?

Effectively you would be liable for VRT upon entering every country along the way.

Marcusm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Just a little update:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-5355_en.htm

So European Commission is saying Ireland is not inline with car tax on rented and leased vehicles.

In short it is saying if you rent a car for 2 weeks the irish revenue cannot nor should not be trying to get you to pay the full VRT for the vehicle.

I think what they are saying is, it should be a sliding scale.
Take the value of the car and the full taxation and apply a % of that cost vrs the time the car is to be spent in the state.

I guess perhaps the way to do it would be to look at the value of the vehicle upon entering the state and the value leaving.

i.e. 10K coming in 8K going back so you pay the % on the 2K not the full 10K


Could you imagine that all euro zone countries done what Ireland does?
And you decided to take a driving holiday across Europe?

Effectively you would be liable for VRT upon entering every country along the way.

It's not the two weeks position that they are worried about but the ability of finance companies to offer financing from (say) Germany under lease/PCP type deals. Basically, they are suggesting that charging VRT in total upfront and the difficulties in the export scheme mean that there are impediments to cross border leasing. Personally I don't think this is much of an impediment as other than exporting the cars to the UK there isn't a viable export market.

This does not challenge the principles of VRT. If you look carefully, you'll find similar exhortations issued to Finland and criticism of Poland that the OMSP equivalent is bogus.