Dublin Bus Ticket Checking (RPU)

punisher5112

Hi all just seen the 1st batch of new checkers early this morning in city centre.

Its about bloody time.

Hopefully my job as a driver will be a bit more tolerable.

pclive

Saw some on the Merrion Road this morning as well.

How many new ones have started? How many in total are on the team?

punisher5112

Not sure of full numbers but there will be shifts.

The 1st batch is what is out so they are still training.

Others will be trickled in slowly and even when all are in there won't be enough.

Greenmachine

Good stuff.

LXFlyer

punisher5112 wrote: »

Not sure of full numbers but there will be shifts.

The 1st batch is what is out so they are still training.

Others will be trickled in slowly and even when all are in there won't be enough.

To be fair though - the risk of being caught will be an additional deterrent.

Once people start seeing the RPU teams out and about a few times, the knowledge that the chances that they could get caught has increased will deter some from paying the wrong fare.

There will always be some who couldn't care less, but getting them out there will help.

Spanish Eyes

Many of those who evade fares or use dodgy free travel passes couldn't care less. False name and address probably. How do they get over that one!

I see that if you pay €50 plus the standard fare within a short time, you will not be taken to court.

But if someone gives false details, well.....

punisher5112

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Many of those who evade fares or use dodgy free travel passes couldn't care less. False name and address probably. How do they get over that one!

I see that if you pay €50 plus the standard fare within a short time, you will not be taken to court.

But if someone gives false details, well.....

Well it will hopefully disrupt their commute as they should be removed and then have the trouble of waiting around for another vehicle or train.

AlekSmart

punisher5112 wrote: »

Well it will hopefully disrupt their commute as they should be removed and then have the trouble of waiting around for another vehicle or train.

Which may also have a Revenue Team on board....:eek:

Get the idea ????

Spanish Eyes

punisher5112 wrote: »

Well it will hopefully disrupt their commute as they should be removed and then have the trouble of waiting around for another vehicle or train.

I'm talking about the serial abusers. Commuters generally don't chance being late for work or appointments or whatever, and the embarrassment factor is high in many people.

But the serial offenders who couldn't give a monkeys won't care if their journey is disrupted. They will just keep on doing it. With false names and addresses. One for every journey. In case the RPU cotton on to the same false name

Like the Luas, the scumbags are ignored, and the paying commuter is checked and balanced.

strandroad

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Many of those who evade fares or use dodgy free travel passes couldn't care less. False name and address probably. How do they get over that one!

I see that if you pay €50 plus the standard fare within a short time, you will not be taken to court.

But if someone gives false details, well.....

Abroad they check documents or take you to a police station if you have no photo ID on you...

Vic_08

mhge wrote: »

Abroad they check documents or take you to a police station if you have no photo ID on you...

That will be in countries where state ID is issued and is required to be carried.

In Ireland it is pointless asking scumbags for ID as they never (say they) carry any.

Sadly I am of the opinion that compulsory ID should be brought in here.

SteM

Saw 3 get on a citybound 65 in Rathmines 2 weeks ago at around 7:30am and they caught 2 people who looked like commuters, I see the same two people on this bus whenever I'm on it anyway. First time I've seen ticket checkers on a DB in years.

strandroad

Vic_08 wrote: »

That will be in countries where state ID is issued and is required to be carried.

Not necessarily. It may not be compulsory to have any ID on you at all but then it's up to you to carry it to save yourself a trip to police station (if you ever find yourself in any circumstances where you need to provide ID).
They just won't take your word for it alone - why would they if it's in your interest to lie.

antoinolachtnai

If you operate the revenue protection correctly, you can deal with repeat offenders. You don't need ID cards or anything else. You just need moderately capable people operating a reasonable strategy.

I hope they aren't going to randomly wander around buses checking tickets. This just isn't how successful revenue management is done.

hfallada

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I hope they aren't going to randomly wander around buses checking tickets. This just isn't how successful revenue management is done.

Thats actually how its done. If you dont know when you are going to be inspected, you wont chance it. There is no point them only inspecting the top 10 used routes and few of the others. The reason why fare evasion is so small in German cities, as they are plain clothed inspectors and will get on anywhere of the line, at any time. I got my tickets inspected at 1.30 am in Munich, by 3 Men wearing football Jerseys. They waited for 10 mins on the tram before inspecting tickets, so no one was any of the wiser. As soon as they were done, they got off the tram and into a van to inspect anther bus/tram

cdebru

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

If you operate the revenue protection correctly, you can deal with repeat offenders. You don't need ID cards or anything else. You just need moderately capable people operating a reasonable strategy.

I hope they aren't going to randomly wander around buses checking tickets. This just isn't how successful revenue management is done.

Well dont keep us in suspense, what is the correct way to do it ?

antoinolachtnai

There is no random wandering in what you describe. It might look like this at first, but it is a lot more planned and concerted than you describe.

Have you ever embarked on a concerted effort to evade fares over a few weeks in a German city? I confess that I have not done so myself, but two relatives of mine have. They soon discovered (and I discovered myself when I travelled around Berlin with one of them, after he had mended his ways) that there is nothing random about where the ticket inspectors strike.

A friend of mine had a similar experience when she began to use commuter rail services in London for the first time.

goingnowhere

The entire point is there is no randomness in where the inspectors go, but to the public it appears the checks are random Past history of hotspots for evasion are the key, edges of fare zones, i.e. head 13+ stages out of city and catch those over travelling (hence why Luas love Ballaly)

The plain clothes operation in Germany is highly effective, but the German's will also go with the large scale highly visual operation as well. Of course in Germany there is respect for the law and folks pay up. No dodgy names or addresses either as everyone has to carry their ID card.

hfallada

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

There is no random wandering in what you describe. It might look like this at first, but it is a lot more planned and concerted than you describe.

Have you ever embarked on a concerted effort to evade fares over a few weeks in a German city? I confess that I have not done so myself, but two relatives of mine have. They soon discovered (and I discovered myself when I travelled around Berlin with one of them, after he had mended his ways) that there is nothing random about where the ticket inspectors strike.

A friend of mine had a similar experience when she began to use commuter rail services in London for the first time.

No. Because I was using the trams so much, that I knew I was going to get checked. But my friends tried to dodge them for months and eventually all of them got caught, several times. I lived in Munich for 4 months and there was never a pattern for ticket inspectors.

Some of my friends lived there for 10 years and said it was completely random. When you have so many lines, its easy to make them random.

cdebru

hfallada wrote: »

No. Because I was using the trams so much, that I knew I was going to get checked. But my friends tried to dodge them for months and eventually all of them got caught, several times. I lived in Munich for 4 months and there was never a pattern for ticket inspectors.

Some of my friends lived there for 10 years and said it was completely random. When you have so many lines, its easy to make them random.

Well here it is completely random made to look targeted to the extent that if you live in a nice area of the city you might think, RPU staff must live there as well, but if you live in the less salubrious areas you may think that RPU are in the same category as the tooth fairy or Santa.

Yggr of Asgard

There is massive fare evasion in Germany, depending on the city/region. Some regions estimate it's 0.6% while in some eastern cities they think it might be up to 6%. It's estimate that there is fare evasion of about 250 Million €.

If you get caught (during the actual crime or even attempting to do it) there is can be a penalty of 60€, however if you do this intentional (or several times) you actually could be send to court and get up to 1 year as custodial sentence.

However the German Police Union wants to change it and make this an Ordnungswidrigkeit which would be dealt with by the city/county office of public order and would result in just a fine unless the person is a serial offender.

It's not as good as everybody thinks it is, there might be visible enforcement but still it's a serious issue for the transport providers in Germany.

AlekSmart

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

There is massive fare evasion in Germany, depending on the city/region. Some regions estimate it's 0.6% while in some eastern cities they think it might be up to 6%. It's estimate that there is fare evasion of about 250 Million €.

If you get caught (during the actual crime or even attempting to do it) there is can be a penalty of 60€, however if you do this intentional (or several times) you actually could be send to court and get up to 1 year as custodial sentence.

However the German Police Union wants to change it and make this an Ordnungswidrigkeit which would be dealt with by the city/county office of public order and would result in just a fine unless the person is a serial offender.

It's not as good as everybody thinks it is, there might be visible enforcement but still it's a serious issue for the transport providers in Germany.

With typical Teutonic logic,the Police Union,as a result of it's own studies,wishes to streamline the Revenue Protection process,particularly the Police Involvement in what they increasingly regard as a Civil offence.

However,unlike a similar Irish situation,the real sting is in the last line...

unless the person is a serial offender.

The intent is to identify and target this dedicated group for State/Federal Police attention,whilst maintaining existing hi-visibility revenue protection but on a lower,less complex,civil law basis.

It is,if you pause for thought,the exact same situation as in Dublin....my own observations would suggest 90% compliance....10% Non-Compliance....with 50% of those Non Com's being unintentional...the target grouping...the remaining 50% of the total....again,a personal observation, 5% of the daily footfall....This is a Significant number,and one which unless visibly challenged,only increases with time.

That "Challenge"has just arrived ....;)

Spanish Eyes

The first passengers RPU should check (and maybe they do, haven't seen them EVER on my route), are those getting off the bus at the stop the RPU get on.

Some may be genuinely getting off there, but those who have evaded a fare are highly likely to leg it.

I'm sure that is obvious to the checkers though!

mikemac1

Saw these guys once but they weren't RPU, they were old skool inspectors, caps n'all

They had a hotline to welfare to check any passes. The hotline seemed to work well