No confidence on the Fairway

pakman

I've recently been working on my drives and had good progress but its caused a strange problem for me.

Now that I am hitting it straighter, I am ending up on the fairways a lot more than I was and its making me play worse rather than better.

Something about a tight lie is killing my swing confidence. I don't know whether its from playing in wet conditions and mis-hitting into soft ground or what but I almost want to drive badly so I have that long grass between the ball and the ground.

I'm playing off 22 and scoring mid-low 90's for start of the year. The past two rounds were over 100 and head-wrecking

Has anybody else had this problem?

PARlance

Used to favour a rough lie when I started, I put that down to try to hit up on the ball rather that down on it with irons.
That's the first thing that sprung to mind when reading your post.

BoardsMember

I think a lesson would benefit you here so that you don't "fix" the fairway issue, and "break" the driver again.

It might be as simple ball positioning, so don't get disheartened, it's great you're hitting fairways.

It would be madness taking advice from people who haven't seen you swing, do yourself a favour and get a lesson or two.

alxmorgan

For me big change came when I focused on keeping my weight left throughout the swing.
Swaying off the ball causes loss of low point control and your irons low point should be after the ball.
Even if you feel all your weight is left it won't be as the movement of arms and club will move weight right.
So I follow the mantra by Martin Chuck of "start left, stay left, move left"

Check out one of the latest videos which gives a quick insight on it

http://revolutiongolf.com/instruction/video-collections/experts/experts/martin-chuck/videos/another-valuable-tip-from-ben-hogan

DiegoWorst

pakman wrote: »

I've recently been working on my drives and had good progress but its caused a strange problem for me.

Now that I am hitting it straighter, I am ending up on the fairways a lot more than I was and its making me play worse rather than better.

Something about a tight lie is killing my swing confidence. I don't know whether its from playing in wet conditions and mis-hitting into soft ground or what but I almost want to drive badly so I have that long grass between the ball and the ground.

I'm playing off 22 and scoring mid-low 90's for start of the year. The past two rounds were over 100 and head-wrecking

Has anybody else had this problem?

Somebody suggested getting a lesson which is probably the best thing for you to do.

Lots of teachers insist your club will bottom out in line with the sternum, the weight moving forward during the downswing will shift your sternum slightly hole-side of the ball, the clubhead then gathers the ball before making contact with the turf.

My own experience is, once I started hitting fat or thin shots from tight lies, I made the mistake of shifting my focus on trying to get the clubhead onto the back of the ball - this made things much worst, and its very very difficult to shake off the feeling of hitting fat shots.

The thing that worked for me was to not focus on actually hitting the ball, but to focus on where I want to hit it to. I assume alignment and ball position takes care of the rest!!!

Johnny_Fontane

hit the little ball before the big ball......

Keano

If you've nothing sensible to post then please refrain from doing so again.

Johnny_Fontane

Keano wrote: »

If you've nothing sensible to post then please refrain from doing so again.

Is this referring to the little ball before the big ball? Its something that someone told me once and its a great mantra to have in your head. You have got to hit the ball first and its something I use all the time particularly on 60-120 yard shots from tight fairways......

DiegoWorst

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

hit the little ball before the big ball......

I've heard this 100's of times - I still find it funny, and is apt in this situation.

Not so funny when your playing partner says it to you immediately after you chunk a shot.

pakman

Cheers for the suggestions.

I have taken a lesson recently and he noticed that I was hammering at it but with very little wrist action so lost a lot of power. Since changing thing its gotten better but then this crept in I think because now I need better timing.

I am seeing a lot of people/videos say to hit down on the ball but cant' really figure it out and driving ranges seems to hide this problem a lot too.

Head is swimming with things. Grip too tight, left arm straight, hinge wrists, weight distribution. Think I might be over thinking it. Booking the lesson now

Keano

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Is this referring to the little ball before the big ball? Its something that someone told me once and its a great mantra to have in your head. You have got to hit the ball first and its something I use all the time particularly on 60-120 yard shots from tight fairways......

I've never heard it before but a little bit of context with your post would have been nice.

rrpc

Keano wrote: »

I've never heard it before but a little bit of context with your post would have been nice.

Little ball being your golf ball and big ball being planet Earth

bustercherry

Keano wrote: »

I've never heard it before but a little bit of context with your post would have been nice.

Just a suggestion you could have just asked him what he meant.

charlieIRL

bustercherry wrote: »

Just a suggestion you could have just asked him what he meant.

I never heard that saying before either so agree with Keano.

Anyway, its in the past, forget about it and move on!

DiegoWorst

pakman wrote: »

Cheers for the suggestions.

I have taken a lesson recently and he noticed that I was hammering at it but with very little wrist action so lost a lot of power. Since changing thing its gotten better but then this crept in I think because now I need better timing.

I am seeing a lot of people/videos say to hit down on the ball but cant' really figure it out and driving ranges seems to hide this problem a lot too.

Head is swimming with things. Grip too tight, left arm straight, hinge wrists, weight distribution. Think I might be over thinking it. Booking the lesson now

If your head is swimming with things, its time to take a step back.
I'd recommend watching some of Ron Sisson's youtube videos, or have a read of Ernest Jones - if for no other reason than to learn that a lot of the good things, straight arm & wrist hinge etc. occur naturally in the golf swing.

There was a post here some years ago from a low handicap player who claims not to have any technical swing thoughts at all. From time to time, I still think of that post in amazement, what a great way to be.

BoardsMember

Thread proceeding along predictable lines. OP head was probably swimming when he first posted. Lots of well intentioned advice makes head swim faster. It's not helping, it's unlikely to help.

If you can afford to, go get a lesson and stop reading advice, watching videos etc. Let someone who can identify what the issue is try to fix the issue.

Love that saying above, never heard it before and didnt understand it until I read later posts.

PARlance

GMac was the first person I heard giving it as a tip. Sounds 10 times better in his accent.
I can't read it now without saying it in his voice.

Montgolfier

DiegoWorst wrote: »

Somebody suggested getting a lesson which is probably the best thing for you to do.

Lots of teachers insist your club will bottom out in line with the sternum, the weight moving forward during the downswing will shift your sternum slightly hole-side of the ball, the clubhead then gathers the ball before making contact with the turf.

My own experience is, once I started hitting fat or thin shots from tight lies, I made the mistake of shifting my focus on trying to get the clubhead onto the back of the ball - this made things much worst, and its very very difficult to shake off the feeling of hitting fat shots.

The thing that worked for me was to not focus on actually hitting the ball, but to focus on where I want to hit it to. I assume alignment and ball position takes care of the rest!!!

Bob Rotella couldn't have put it any better himself. Just read the unstoppable golfer. It's called getting in your own way. As you said focus on the target nothing else.
He also suggested to use your putting routine if you have the chipping/pitching yipps not sure how that would go.

FixdePitchmark

When I'm teaching a new player.

I show them how the divot is after the ball.

Hitting down in a more v like fashion is sort of hard to get your head around.

In one round if seen their strikes improve - and ball goes up.

The key to good iron play is let the iron loft do work, the ball will go up if you go down.

BoardsMember

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

When I'm teaching a new player.

I show them how the divot is after the ball.

Hitting down in a more v like fashion is sort of hard to get your head around.

In one round if seen their strikes improve - and ball goes up.

The key to good iron play is let the iron loft do work, the ball will go up if you go down.

FDP - as a coach, would you not recommend a lesson, or advice being given based on the actually issues, i.e. familiarity with the player/swing/issue?

The OP didn't specify that the issue is with iron play. As a high handicapper I'd imagine the issue is as likely to be with fairway woods or rescue clubs as irons.

FixdePitchmark

BoardsMember wrote: »

FDP - as a coach, would you not recommend as lesson, or advice being given based on the actually issues, I.e. familiarity with the player/swing/issue?

The OP didn't specify that the issue is with iron play. As a high handicapper I'd imagine the issue is aa likely to be with fairway woods as irons, but then again I'm guessing too if I get into that.

Of course - but he did mention tight lies.

Go for a lesson, 100 % - but there are free lessons here every day of the week.

If he went to a field and just practised angle of attack for 2 hours - he would be a better iron striker after it.

Even with a simple idea of a downward strike.

Some lessons are very simple.

I go to a range a good bit , and am a bit bored of 6 or 7 clichés from the pros there - lessons are only as good as the pro - the pupil and the desire of both parties.

I wouldn't underestimate what you can learn online - or, shock horror, on here. :eek:


Yes there are confusing conflicting ideas.

But put Harmon - Leadbetter - Pelz in a room together with a new player and he wouldn't be able to hit a ball after.

Simple hit down and experiment with deeper divot post ball strike - guys go years playing this game - falling onto to right foot trying to get ball in air. I watch them and their pain every day - guys playing years - love the game - I feel for them
It is why guys end up hitting fairway woods and sweeping hybrids.

BoardsMember

I'm totally sold on the angle of attack etc for iron play, my chipping and tee shots are ropey, iron play is my strength so I don't need convincing.

I'm still not convinced about taking advice online tbh.

But put Harmon - Leadbetter - Pelz in a room together with a new player and he wouldn't be able to hit a ball after.

I could replace those names with the names of the posters on the thread so far, that's what I'm trying to help the OP avoid, head swimming.

And yes he mentioned tight lies, but again he hasn't mentioned irons. It could be that he can sweep the ball off a tee, but can't do so when on fairway with woods/rescues. A nice teed up ball can hide any multitude of issues that could be responsible. I'd always start with the basics like balance, if your balance is good and your head reasonably steady then move onto more complex things, otherwise get that right......but I don't give advice

FixdePitchmark

Good post.

But give me an hour with him I'd sort Him.

He would be ott and tearing course apart with horrible deep divots.

Off to practice.

BoardsMember

Good luck with the practicing, I might hit you up for some tips some time, there's nothing like conviction in your beliefs!!

The real Grizzly Adams

pakman wrote: »

I've recently been working on my drives and had good progress but its caused a strange problem for me.

Now that I am hitting it straighter, I am ending up on the fairways a lot more than I was and its making me play worse rather than better.

Something about a tight lie is killing my swing confidence. I don't know whether its from playing in wet conditions and mis-hitting into soft ground or what but I almost want to drive badly so I have that long grass between the ball and the ground.

I'm playing off 22 and scoring mid-low 90's for start of the year. The past two rounds were over 100 and head-wrecking

Has anybody else had this problem?

If your still playing winter rules I can kind of understand how you'd like being in the rough but when summer rules come in you'll be happy to be on the fairway as you'll be hacking it out of the rough!

pakman

Cheers for replies everyone again.

I took a lot of the advice and just went out to the range with two ideas. Hit down on the ball and keep everything smooth.

There was lot of improvement by the end of the bucket. Admittedly the swimming came and went but just getting my body in a position so that striking down into the ball felt natural seemed to help a lot.

Longer irons were leaking right, but distance and direction from SW to 7-6 was much improved.

Now I just need to see how it shows up on the course

It was irons I was on about just to be clear. I should have said. Fairway woods are next on the list.

Thanks again

pakman

Update: Got the lesson in the end and turns out my hands were behind the ball too much. I was adding loft to all my clubs and losing distance because of it. It made my striking of the ball suffer too.

That and a little delay on the weight transfer was what the pro said I was struggling with. Now I just need to unlearn the bad habit

Cheers