Is this high mileage for a BMW 520d (E60)

hamsterboy

Hi All
Looking at a nice 08 520 Touring with a full BMW service history.
UK Import in 2011 with 100k motorway miles, now 144k miles
Would this be deemed high mileage or is it not so bad considering theres a full BMW history?
Also about this time you see turbos etc giving trouble I believe....

Anyways, any help would be awesome

Regards

HB

king_of_inismac

hamsterboy wrote: »

Hi All
Looking at a nice 08 520 Touring with a full BMW service history.
UK Import in 2011 with 100k motorway miles, now 144k miles
Would this be deemed high mileage or is it not so bad considering theres a full BMW history?
Also about this time you see turbos etc giving trouble I believe....

Anyways, any help would be awesome

Regards

HB

I've an E90 about to turn 200k miles without any trouble.

With a full service history I'd say it would be fine. Just make sure you are aware of the timing chain issue on this model.

hamsterboy

Cheers for that.....
I am not aware of this problem, some research will sort that out....
Thanks again

HB

king_of_inismac

hamsterboy wrote: »

Cheers for that.....
I am not aware of this problem, some research will sort that out....
Thanks again

HB

Turbos fine on those engines from what I understand, once the breather filter has been done.

Timing chain is a big weakness. It requires the entire engine to be removed and costs about 5k.

hamsterboy

Wow scary stuff bout the timing chain
Is 5k from the dealer?
I have a mechanic for a brother who used to work in a BWW dealership so if it needs doing, costs will be minimised

HB

king_of_inismac

hamsterboy wrote: »

Wow scary stuff bout the timing chain
Is 5k from the dealer?
I have a mechanic for a brother who used to work in a BWW dealership so if it needs doing, costs will be minimised

HB

Yes from a main dealer. But its still an engine out job.

I'd be looking for a discount when buying to balance the risk of failure.

ourheritage

I'd say 144k would be quite reasonable mileage for a 2 litre diesel. It all depends on how its looked after, but I'd advice you to get another 100 out of it with regular service intervals from a good mechacic.

Foxhole Norman

Chains are now being covered fully under Goodwill from BMW, the full service history should stand with you for this.

hamsterboy

Wow.
So I can rock up to a BMW garage, "Timing Chain replacement my good man" and go smoke cigars while they do it?
Or is there some kind of criteria involved?

HB

Foxhole Norman

hamsterboy wrote: »

Wow.
So I can rock up to a BMW garage, "Timing Chain replacement my good man" and go smoke cigars while they do it?
Or is there some kind of criteria involved?

HB

I'd ring ahead to be sure, haven't looked into the specifics of it myself as I've no interest in the diesels :P

But back to the question, I wouldn't consider 144k big on a 7 year old Diesel, about 20k a year so it was driven right to be honest!

Toyotafanboi

hamsterboy wrote: »

Wow.
So I can rock up to a BMW garage, "Timing Chain replacement my good man" and go smoke cigars while they do it?
Or is there some kind of criteria involved?

HB

i'd imagine it has to have failed or be showing signs of failure.

166man

I'd be wary buying one of those Era diesels tbh. Before I bought, I'd want confirmation from BMW that if it is affected by the chain issues (which it almost certainly will be) that they will cover it.

I'd be cautious and tread carefully. Good car other than that though.

Special Circumstances

They'll need to judge the cut of your jib and see if they like it.
The BMW criteria for acceptable jib cuttery are not public knowledge.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057379986&page=13

bazz26 wrote: »

Just an update.

I know someone who inquired with BMW about their 2008 520d and was told that last week that BMW would not cover any cost of replacing the timing chain. Not sure what mileage or service history the car has but it was bought second hand from a non BMW dealer. So BMW are not replacing all of these free of charge.

king_of_inismac

Agree 100% with above post. If BMW can avoid doing it, they will.

I'd be negotiating a large discount from the seller to offset the cost of getting it done. You might be very lucky to get it done FOC but I wouldn't bank on it.

In a way, they are a time bomb.

hamsterboy

Dammit.
Just when ye think ye found yer perfect car......
In two minds atm bout it

Need to do some serious thinking......*heads to the jacks


HB

s33b4

Hi .
there is a big problem with timing chain in this cars .
Bmw didn't build that engine (n47) as we would expect .
my self I drive 520d 2008( 100k miles) and the timing chain needs to be replaced for a new one .
Repair is 1400 € .
Best Regards.

bazz26

s33b4 wrote: »

Hi .
there is a big problem with timing chain in this cars .
Bmw didn't build that engine (n47) as we would expect .
my self I drive 520d 2008 and the timing chain needs to be replaced for a new one .
Repair is 1400 € .
Best Regards.

Did you check with a BMW dealer if it was covered under goodwill from BMW? I'd do this first before paying for it yourself.

hamsterboy

Inquired about a 520d touring I was interested in, asked :
"I would like to enquire about the BMW 5 SERIES 520 SE TOURING AUTO [FULL LEATHER,HEATED SEATS,HEATED STEERING,FINANCE ARRANGED,WARRATY]. First of all, is it still for sale. Second of all, has it had the timing chain replaced?, as this is a known problem for this engine (N47) BMW repairing this problem under a goodwill agreement...Lovely looking car, very interested. Let me know "

What I got back was
"Hi pat,it's actually one of the directors cars,we had chain checked and it is fine.comes with w 3 month warranty to.sure if you fancy test driving it let me know,regards"

I'm wondering what he meant when he said the chain was checked.....is it not on the back of the engine, which would mean an engine out to check it....??
Or am I wrong

HB

Alanstrainor

You just can't take anyones word on the chain being "checked".

Unless you had a dealer or reputable independent mechanic to verify that the chain has been replaced I just wouldn't touch one of them to be honest.

hamsterboy

Alanstrainor wrote: »

You just can't take anyones word on the chain being "checked".

Unless you had a dealer or reputable independent mechanic to verify that the chain has been replaced I just wouldn't touch one of them to be honest.

Yeah, thats what I was thinking.
Cheers

HB

Fatswaldo

I had a 520d with this issue. a dodgy crankshaft sprocket either snaps or jumps the chain.

The chain cant be properly checked without taking out the engine. A harsh rattle gives the signal that its time for change. Listen for ticking or rattle noises from start up to indicate that the problem is starting. Engines from late 07 to early 09 need to have both guides and crankshafts changed (bigger bill). Pity, otherwise a great car.

Special Circumstances

Fatswaldo wrote: »

A harsh rattle gives the signal that its time for change. Listen for ticking or rattle noises from start up to indicate that the problem is starting.

They all sound like a harsh rattle to me when they start from cold!

tphase

Alanstrainor wrote: »

You just can't take anyones word on the chain being "checked".

Unless you had a dealer or reputable independent mechanic to verify that the chain has been replaced I just wouldn't touch one of them to be honest.

+1
Even if the chain has been "checked" and the car has been serviced properly, that's no guarantee it won't break
I picked up a '08 520d touring recently from an indy dealer, very similar car to what the OP is looking at. Chain had been replaced otherwise I wouldn't have touched it....

Fatswaldo

Special Circumstances wrote: »

They all sound like a harsh rattle to me when they start from cold!

Ha, agreed, but you will notice the difference with the timing chain rattle.

Special Circumstances

Fatswaldo wrote: »

Ha, agreed, but you will notice the difference with the timing chain rattle.

I'm sceptical, but to push it any further would be just trolling.

People may think I'm trolling anyway with my odd bit of german car bashing, but plenty people have been shafted big time by BMW on this - it shouldn't be left slide with a half-assed "quality assurance" programme.

hamsterboy

Well after mulling it over I've made the tough decision to not look for a 520d, sad as other than this issue they would be so perfect for my needs.
A pity that BWM are not REALLY putting their hand up and admitting they got it wrong, can't help thinking that if this were a Japanese manufacturer, we'd be talking major recall.

Ah well, speaking of Japanese, eyeing up some tasty Mazda 6 Tourings atm.

Thanks for your help everyone, probably saved me from letting heart rule head.

HB

Foxhole Norman

hamsterboy wrote: »

Well after mulling it over I've made the tough decision to not look for a 520d, sad as other than this issue they would be so perfect for my needs.
A pity that BWM are not REALLY putting their hand up and admitting they got it wrong, can't help thinking that if this were a Japanese manufacturer, we'd be talking major recall.

Ah well, speaking of Japanese, eyeing up some tasty Mazda 6 Tourings atm.

Thanks for your help everyone, probably saved me from letting heart rule head.

HB

You could always look for a 6 cylinder 525/530D, they don't have the same problems as the 2.0D unit.

hamsterboy

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

You could always look for a 6 cylinder 525/530D, they don't have the same problems as the 2.0D unit.

Would be nice but unfortunately not seeing any in my price range, max 13k

Cheers anyway

HB

Foxhole Norman

hamsterboy wrote: »

Would be nice but unfortunately not seeing any in my price range, max 13k

Cheers anyway

HB

No bother, good luck with the search!

hamsterboy

Thanks again

gonko

hamsterboy wrote: »

Would be nice but unfortunately not seeing any in my price range, max 13k

Cheers anyway

HB

Would you consider dropping back a few years in order to fit one to budget. There are some excellent cars out there.

I picked up a 2.5 2001 model diesel at 191k, 196k on it now, and the thing is absolutely perfect and is beautiful to drive. High mileage on the larger diesel engines is nothing too much to worry about.

I would also point out too, that the vast majority of bmw fanatics (I'm a Honda man ) see the E39 model as the best ever made by BMW....and they can be picked up for peanuts now. Tax is a killer on them...but its a sour expense for a nice car.

George Dalton

hamsterboy wrote: »

can't help thinking that if this were a Japanese manufacturer, we'd be talking major recall.

Ah well, speaking of Japanese, eyeing up some tasty Mazda 6 Tourings atm.

The irony of this is impossible to ignore. I can't believe nobody else has posted about it already.

Those Mazda diesels have to be one of the worst engines produced in the last decade IMO and yes you've guessed it, not a hint of a recall from Mazda. I'd take my chances with a BMW N47 any day of the week over one of those heaps of scrap....

Moneymaker

My uncle got a Mazda 6 2.2 diesel, heart broken by it.

Buy a well maintained E39, cost you 2.5k tops and they are a brilliant car.

Black, msport, leather and auto box and you're good too go. Spend the 10.5k change on tax, petrol and hookers :pac:

An 05-06 E60 would be grand too. Different engine.

tphase

I agree with Moneymaker - the money you save on an older model will go a long way to cover the extra tax hit. However, if you really want a newer model, you should be able to find a '08 520d touring with the timing chains done within your budget

a few things worth noting;
Cars with an N47 engine are hard to sell (even with chain done) so this is a bargaining chip in your favour

You can use the cost of the chain job to beat down the price. A BMW garage will charge ~4-5k (obviously use this price). An indy will charge you ~1.5-2.5k

You could offer the seller the asking price if the chains have been done by a BMW garage (with paperwork/guarantee to prove it)

If there's a full BMW service history, it's possible BMW will replace chains as a goodwill gesture (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=95084794). Possibly best to let the seller jump through those hoops but you could check with your local main stealer if the car you're interested in would qualify and look after it yourself.
Based on what I've read, BMW will use whatever excuse they can to avoid doing it for free and will do the minimum they deem necessary eg change the chain but not the sprocket or cam. In that case, I'd offer to pay for the extra parts and have them changed while the engine is out.

Special Circumstances

Mazda - diesel in sump = worst engine in the world.
BMW - diesel in sump = a triumph of engineering.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

tphase wrote: »

I agree with Moneymaker - the money you save on an older model will go a long way to cover the extra tax hit. However, if you really want a newer model, you should be able to find a '08 520d touring with the timing chains done within your budget

a few things worth noting;
Cars with an N47 engine are hard to sell (even with chain done) so this is a bargaining chip in your favour

You can use the cost of the chain job to beat down the price. A BMW garage will charge ~4-5k (obviously use this price). An indy will charge you ~1.5-2.5k

You could offer the seller the asking price if the chains have been done by a BMW garage (with paperwork/guarantee to prove it)

If there's a full BMW service history, it's possible BMW will replace chains as a goodwill gesture (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=95084794). Possibly best to let the seller jump through those hoops but you could check with your local main stealer if the car you're interested in would qualify and look after it yourself.
Based on what I've read, BMW will use whatever excuse they can to avoid doing it for free and will do the minimum they deem necessary eg change the chain but not the sprocket or cam. In that case, I'd offer to pay for the extra parts and have them changed while the engine is out.

Just wondering why you state that? Wouldn't a car with an N47 engine with its main weak point taken care of by BMW i.e. chain sproket cam etc. all replaced make the car at least as 'safe' a purchase as the same car with the older M47 engine?
Then when you consider the N47 being a more modern engine and that a car model in which it is found, be it a e60 or e90 etc would typically be facelifted version of that model, what other reasons are there for a buyer to not choose the N47 engined car over the M47 engined car (all other things being equal)?

ABC101

Some very interesting comments from poster there about the N47 engine.

I've always admired BMW... but never had the courage to own one... or the money to buy one.

Strange how a engine with such a defect got to 144K miles anyway? Is it more age related or is it more to do with short distance driving rather than long distance?

For example a N47 used for lots of short journeys will have timing chain issues around 80K (for example)... but if used for much longer journeys... the chain will last to 150K?

Any thoughts?

bazz26

ABC101 wrote: »

Some very interesting comments from poster there about the N47 engine.

I've always admired BMW... but never had the courage to own one... or the money to buy one.

Strange how a engine with such a defect got to 144K miles anyway? Is it more age related or is it more to do with short distance driving rather than long distance?

For example a N47 used for lots of short journeys will have timing chain issues around 80K (for example)... but if used for much longer journeys... the chain will last to 150K?

Any thoughts?

This has been discussed lots of times but there really is no set mileage interval at when the timing chain can show signs of premature wear or fails. I've heard of chains needing replacing on cars with 40k, 80k or over 100k miles, etc. It's a premature failure so there are random factors involved.

The timing chain is supposed to be designed to last the life time of the engine and should not need replacing, this is why it was designed to replace the traditional belt. They even put it at the back of the engine which is up against a bulkhead making it very labour intensive to get at it (engine out job).

hamsterboy

George Dalton wrote: »

The irony of this is impossible to ignore. I can't believe nobody else has posted about it already.

Those Mazda diesels have to be one of the worst engines produced in the last decade IMO and yes you've guessed it, not a hint of a recall from Mazda. I'd take my chances with a BMW N47 any day of the week over one of those heaps of scrap....

Sorry, didn't mean to be ironic.
My fault, guess I was basing it on the amount of recalls I've seen from a different Jap manufacturer ..... my bad. Will research that engine
What was the main problem with it anyway?
Cheers (and again, apologies)

HB

ABC101

While on the subject of diesels.... I think the Lexus IS 220 d has a tendency for head gasket issues, which requires a engine exchange job.

I think Lexus admitted to this and the job is covered under warranty (open to correction).

Not sure what years are affected by this defect.

Not related to Mazda or BMW... but as you are on the hunt for a diesel!

Special Circumstances

hamsterboy wrote: »

What was the main problem with it anyway?

HB

That mazda engine, like some bmw engines, will leak diesel into the sump under the wrong conditions. Engine is not properly lubed and will wear out bearings.

hamsterboy

What about the previous 2.0l
Not seeing problems with that and a few of the Mazdas I'm looking at have one

HB

Special Circumstances

Previous Mazda engine - diesel in sump problem was more common with them than 2.2. (By accounts online at least)
Previous BMW engine may need to be de-flapped before the swirl flaps break off and get ingested. And maybe turbo problems.
This info is collected from various accounts on this forum - I'd rate the unbiased opinion of an experienced mechanic such as George over it.
(But I do think this forum in general glorifies German engineering above all else despite expensive failures becoming more common in the last ten years)

You're going to hear horror stories on many modern diesel engines unfortunately.

hamsterboy

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Previous Mazda engine - diesel in sump problem was more common with them than 2.2. (By accounts online at least)
Previous BMW engine may need to be de-flapped before the swirl flaps break off and get ingested. And maybe turbo problems.
This info is collected from various accounts on this forum - I'd rate the unbiased opinion of an experienced mechanic such as George over it.
(But I do think this forum in general glorifies German engineering above all else despite expensive failures becoming more common in the last ten years)

You're going to hear horror stories on many modern diesel engines unfortunately.

Yeah seems no matter what diesel you ask about, even in RL, there's always someone with a story.
Cheers anyway

HB

ABC101

Out of curiosity... any major problems with Subaru diesels?