Press fit BB removal help!

jntsnk

Hi,
Have a Cervelo S5 that need its bearing changed but can't get the damn things out. Ive been trying it with the park tool and hammer and has worked fine on other bikes but this wont budge. Was reading about cervelo's advice when installing and they advise ti use loctite to bond the bearing to the frame, so I'm thinking this is the problem, thought copper grease would be sufficient when installing. One suggestion I read was use a hair dryer to heat up the bond, but to no avail
Anyways , need help, any advice appreciated.

Juan More Time

Much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news, it almost certainly seems like the wrong grade of locktite was used when the bearings were installed.. If you attempt to bate the hell out of it with the large hammer, you could end up damaging your frameset. Personally I would avoid using a heat gun on a carbon frame. I would suggest using a dremel (small hobby power tool) and a small cutting disc to make several incisions through the inner and outer races of the bearings...

jntsnk

Thanks for the advice, ya was afraid to hammer the sh*t out of it for the frames sake.

ftgu06

drop the bike to a good bike shop , the will have a proper bearing puller it normally only takes minutes to remove them , and for God sake don't go near the bike with a heat gun or any other diy power tools that type of advice is just nuts

jntsnk

Sound advice. Wasn't aware of a bearing puller. Thanks

thelawman

S5 and hammer should never appear in the same sentence

endacl

thelawman wrote: »

S5 and hammer should never appear in the same sentence

'Hammering it on the big ring'?

Seweryn

jntsnk wrote: »

Anyways , need help, any advice appreciated.

Did you use this tool for the task?
Never had issues with removing bearings and I always use the retaining compound when installing them into the frame.

Juan More Time

thelawman wrote: »

S5 and hammer should never appear in the same sentence

Unless of course you happen to be the one hammering on the front of the peleton astride yer S5 aero road bike..:D

Juan More Time

ftgu06 wrote: »

drop the bike to a good bike shop , the will have a proper bearing puller it normally only takes minutes to remove them , and for God sake don't go near the bike with a heat gun or any other diy power tools that type of advice is just nuts

I used to work in a good bike shop, and if customers ever witnessed the methods we used to release seized components, they would have to be killed:D

Brian?

jntsnk wrote: »

Hi,
Have a Cervelo S5 that need its bearing changed but can't get the damn things out. Ive been trying it with the park tool and hammer and has worked fine on other bikes but this wont budge. Was reading about cervelo's advice when installing and they advise ti use loctite to bond the bearing to the frame, so I'm thinking this is the problem, thought copper grease would be sufficient when installing. One suggestion I read was use a hair dryer to heat up the bond, but to no avail
Anyways , need help, any advice appreciated.

Cervelo themselves recommend using loctite? That's mental, bearings should never need it.

Idleater

Brian? wrote: »

Cervelo themselves recommend using loctite? That's mental, bearings should never need it.

Assuming you are making the mistake of associating a brand name with their most well known product, there are some less than super strength fixing solutions out there.
http://www.loctite.co.uk/retaining-4479.htm for instance.

Having said that, my bb30 bikes have bearings retained by a c clip that makes the all too frequent replacement of bearing an easy task.

Brian?

Idleater wrote: »

Assuming you are making the mistake of associating a brand name with their most well known product, there are some less than super strength fixing solutions out there.
http://www.loctite.co.uk/retaining-4479.htm for instance.

Having said that, my bb30 bikes have bearings retained by a c clip that makes the all too frequent replacement of bearing an easy task.

There may be a weak loctite I'm unaware of, I've used 5 or 6 types in the past as far as I remember, but my point is that the bearings should fit so snug that no retaining compound is needed.

To recommend loctite of any kind implies poorly controlled manufacturing of either the bearings or shell.

Seweryn

Brian? wrote: »

There may be a weak loctite I'm unaware of, I've used 5 or 6 types in the past as far as I remember.

There is only one product designed specifically for this application. You need to use the middle strength retaining compound. And not necessarily manufactured by Loctite. I use an equivalent product from a different manufacturer.

Brian? wrote: »

To recommend loctite of any kind implies poorly controlled manufacturing of either the bearings or shell.

With all respect Brian, that is nonsense. Every bicycle manufacturer should recommend using bearing retaining compound for press fit bearings. That is what the product is for. It fixes the bearing into position and prevents the bearing shell from wear and tear through its service life.

Brian?

Seweryn wrote: »

There is only one product designed specifically for this application. You need to use the middle strength retaining compound. And not necessarily manufactured by Loctite. I use an equivalent product from a different manufacturer.


With all respect Brian, that is nonsense. Every bicycle manufacturer should recommend using bearing retaining compound for press fit bearings. That is what the product is for. It fixes the bearing into position and prevents the bearing shell from wear and tear through its service life.

It's not not nonsense. Why would press fit bearings need a retaining compound if they fit correctly? Why do FSA recommend using grease? Because it makes it easier to move the bearing on installation and removal. Any retaining compound does the opposite. The problem should never be keeping the bearing in place, it should be removing it as it sits so snug.

superlav

I had a similar problem with one of my BB30 bearings, I had the FSA removal tool recommended for removing the bearings, but no matter how I went at it, it would not budge.

Then I got myself one of these bearing removal tools and hey presto. It always helps to have the right tool for the job, and this one made a previously very frustraing job so much easier.

Icetoolz also do another more verstaile bearing puller, which covers BB30, BB86, BB92 abd Campag Ultra Torque, which may work for you.

A quick search for Icetoolz e291 bearing puller should give you some more info on this tool.

torydiver

Seweryn wrote: »

There is only one product designed specifically for this application. You need to use the middle strength retaining compound. And not necessarily manufactured by Loctite. I use an equivalent product from a different manufacturer.





Just posted a thread on similar issue,
Would like to know the equivalent Loctite compound you using
been unable to locate Loctite 609 easily

Seweryn

Brian? wrote: »

It's not not nonsense. Why would press fit bearings need a retaining compound if they fit correctly?

Press fit bearings need a retaining compound for the following reasons:

- Bearing outer shell surface contact accounts for about 30% of the total surface of the joint. Small movements at the joint interface can produce particles which abrade and reduce the contact surface even more, and most importantly increase wear and tear of the bearing shell, which is non-replaceable.

- There is no perfectly machined surface, and adhesives help to eliminate bearing spinout, preventing component damage by filling all surface irregularities, etc. A retaining compound fill the inner space between components and cure to form a strong, uniform assembly that allows higher loads to be transmitted. No squeaking, and longer life of the bike frame.

- During the installation process a retaining compound works as a lubricant and makes the installation easier and smoother.

Brian? wrote: »

Why do FSA recommend using grease?

I don't know why they recommend using grease instead. Grease will still help to fill the little gaps in surfaces, but will not do the same job.

Brian? wrote: »

Because it makes it easier to move the bearing on installation and removal. Any retaining compound does the opposite.

Not true. A retaining compound works as a lubricant during installation. Removing a worn out bearing is easy when using the correct grade retaining compound.

Brian? wrote: »

The problem should never be keeping the bearing in place, it should be removing it as it sits so snug.

Snug fit is not necessary a perfect fit, as the bearing installed without a retaining compound is in contact with the sleeve at about 30% of its outer surface. This method of installation may cause damage to the bike frame.

Seweryn

torydiver wrote: »

Just posted a thread on similar issue,
Would like to know the equivalent Loctite compound you using
been unable to locate Loctite 609 easily

I use this product when installing the press fit bearings. This is an equivalent to Loctite 641, not the 609, which could be a little too strong for the application.

Brian?

Seweryn wrote: »

Press fit bearings need a retaining compound for the following reasons:

- Bearing outer shell surface contact accounts for about 30% of the total surface of the joint. Small movements at the joint interface can produce particles which abrade and reduce the contact surface even more, and most importantly increase wear and tear of the bearing shell, which is non-replaceable.

- There is no perfectly machined surface, and adhesives help to eliminate bearing spinout, preventing component damage by filling all surface irregularities, etc. A retaining compound fill the inner space between components and cure to form a strong, uniform assembly that allows higher loads to be transmitted. No squeaking, and longer life of the bike frame.

- During the installation process a retaining compound works as a lubricant and makes the installation easier and smoother.


I don't know why they recommend using grease instead. Grease will still help to fill the little gaps in surfaces, but will not do the same job.


Not true. A retaining compound works as a lubricant during installation. Removing a worn out bearing is easy when using the correct grade retaining compound.


Snug fit is not necessary a perfect fit, as the bearing installed without a retaining compound is in contact with the sleeve at about 30% of its outer surface. This method of installation may cause damage to the bike frame.

I'm completely bamboozled by this notion of using a retaining compound for one good reason: the amount of machines I've maintained over the years without every hearing of using a retaining compound. You wouldn't believe the amount of snug fitting bearings I've swapped out over the last 15 years.

There is no such thing as a perfectly machined surface. Precision machining exists though. The only reason I can think of using anything like a retaining compound is that bike manufacturers for have tight tolerances on machining BB shells. Which is criminal considering the cost of high end bikes. High precision bearings have tolerances in the sub 10-5mm range. If the shell is manufactured to the same standard, no way should you need a retaining compound.