Question for people working as waiters/waitress in hotels.

kapisko1PL

Hey Guys,

Apologies for not knowing where to post this. This seems like the most convenient section. Anyways; I direct this question to waiters/waitress working in hotels.

I am currently employed in one of the hotels in Leinster. When I started my work 3 years ago, I would be happy to come to work yet now, 3 years later this place is no longer the same place it used to be.

In the past, I would come to work on time (as scheduled by the roster) - do my job - and go home (as scheduled by the roster). Nowadays, I can be kept at work for the full day (I usually agree because I need money for college) or be the only person left at the end of my shift and do 2-3 hours of extra work because everybody fu*ked off home including the manager. Fair enough - I need money like everybody does but I was scheduled to finish work by at 2 o'clock today yet I finished at 5 because I had to catch up with everything that was not done.

This is not the first time something like that has happened. Okay, I might be a relatively and old staff member there (compared to other people working there roughly one year) but I have so much more "responsibilities" or things that I am capable of doing that other people can't because they were simply never trained to do it. I can be responsible for room service, restaurant, other places in the same day where other people stand, talk and polish glasses, cutlery or crockery. We are all paid the same wage yet other people seem to be finished by the roster yet I am the person who usually stays longer at work when something needs to be finished or something that was not done by my other colleagues who went home and didn't finish their job.

Also the people I work with don't really seem to care. We are "good" friends when it comes to party but when it comes to work everybody seems to moan about when it is a time to go home.

One day we could finish the breakfast at 11 (people would be in the restaurant till 12) and we have a family lunch at 1 where the restaurant needs to be reset. Most of the time I feel like I am put under a huge amount of pressure to finish everything in time in a very short and limited amount of time. Sometimes I end up doing 3 "shifts" per day including breakfast, lunch and dinner.

I want to ask my fellow colleagues working in hospitality if your job looks the same like mine (I know hospitality is not an easy sector) or should I consider changing it? I am at the edge of depression but I am afraid that when I change my job I will only get myself into a bigger s***e than I am in now.

What do ye think?

dobman88

I could have posted that last year. Worked in a hotel for nearly 4 years and everything changed there. I left. It won't get any better and you should leave too.

Look for a job away from the hospitality sector. It's demoralising work.

The Pheasant2

I feel you man, working in a restaurant at the moment while at college like yourself - Jesus the customers and attitude of coworkers would grind you down fast. My advice? Just leave. You have plenty of experience now so get yourself out of the hospitality industry and into something else at least before you follow your college career. I've been at my restaurant about 2 years now and I've had enough - I'm going to Thailand for a month in July and I'm not going back! I'll certainly be looking for work in a different sector when I return anyway. Hang in there for now and good luck!

Fr_Dougal

Are you getting paid for the extra hours, OP?

You know the way hospitality works, complain about your hours and they won't be long finding someone else to do them.

The Backwards Man

I'm afraid you've crossed the line OP, you're now on the dark side. You care about your work and are not just there for 'party' money like the rest. Employers love people like you, and will exploit you to the hilt if you let them away with it. However, they also despise the crowd that are just there for the wages and don't give a fluck, so tell them you want a rise or you're out the door.

Scarinae

I'd say look for another job where you're not being taken advantage of. I am like you, a very loyal employee - but you have to remember that it's just a job, and they certainly don't have the same loyalty towards you.

kapisko1PL

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Are you getting paid for the extra hours, OP?

You know the way hospitality works, complain about your hours and they won't be long finding someone else to do them.

No, i am being paid the same rate all the time no matter how many hours I do or when I do them.

I don't mind doing long hours. I am fine with that. The problem is that this place is so unorganized that we (the staff) are put under such pressure to finish everything that we barely have time for break sometimes. Like today for example - I started at 7 and only went for break at 3.

Fair enough; you can hire more staff. But first of all teach them about the system at work and how everything works in that specific workplace. Believe me - I know of 5 people that left this place in the space of 3 months because they couldn't stand the sh*t that was going on here.

Like @Scarinae, I am a very loyal employee. I am told to do something and I do it to the best of my abilities. I do not expect to be rewarded with a medal - I just want to know what my job is all about because everyday it is so unpredictable.

My supervisor got a note from the doctor that he suffers from a mental illness caused by stress at work and is now on holiday for few weeks.

Sometimes we also get less than 11 hour rest period between shifts. For example I finished at 12pm last night and had to start work at 7 today. Is this normal in other hotels?

MathDebater

Do you get time in lieu for any of your extra hours worked? Is there a union/shop steward in the hotel?

kapisko1PL

MathDebater wrote: »

Do you get time in lieu for any of your extra hours worked? Is there a union/shop steward in the hotel?

Unfortunately, there is no union representative or anybody like that.

What I get from my wages is basically my wages at a certain rate with no extra pay for over hours and no extra lieu days for anything. I only get paid my wages and my holiday accordingly to how many hours I work. That's it. I might be wrong - but that's how it worked for me for the past 3 years.

MathDebater

Anyway, everyone fecking off home and leaving you to it simply isn't on. With everyone rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in you would be home in 20/30 mins. Not 3 hours later. Need to nip that in the bud and explain in no uncertain terms that you won't stand for it.

As for staff not being fully trained, is there team trainer/training manual in house? If not, speak to your manager, come up with a training plan and make sure everyone is walked through it, fully up to date on it and signed off. Volunteer to be the designated staff trainer if you want. It's in management interests for all staff members to be competent in all aspects of the job.

The constant lack of breaks seems to be a rostering problem. Have a look at that. Perhaps one staff member can come in an hour later in the mornings to cover breaks and ensure everyone gets off on time. Eg, instead of bringing in everyone at the same time to open for breakfast, bring in two at opening and another in an hour or two later. That way breaks can be covered and nobody is left staying behind hours after shift.

Long hours and back to back shifts are expected in the industry at peak times. That's the nature of the beast. But it shouldn't be a regular every day thing.

MathDebater

Give me an example there of an average breakfast shift where you wouldn't get a break until 3 and be expected to stay late. No of staff, covers, style of service and shift times.

kapisko1PL

MathDebater wrote: »

Anyway, everyone fecking off home and leaving you to it simply isn't on. With everyone rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in you would be home in 20/30 mins. Not 3 hours later. Need to nip that in the bud and explain in no uncertain terms that you won't stand for it.

As for staff not being fully trained, is there team trainer/training manual in house? If not, speak to your manager, come up with a training plan and make sure everyone is walked through it, fully up to date on it and signed off. Volunteer to be the designated staff trainer if you want. It's in management interests for all staff members to be competent in all aspects of the job.

The constant lack of breaks seems to be a rostering problem. Have a look at that. Perhaps one staff member can come in an hour later in the mornings to cover breaks and ensure everyone gets off on time. Eg, instead of bringing in everyone at the same time to open for breakfast, bring in two at opening and another in an hour or two later. That way breaks can be covered and nobody is left staying behind hours after shift.

Long hours and back to back shifts are expected in the industry at peak times. That's the nature of the beast. But it shouldn't be a regular every day thing.

That's how the roster works. Some people come later some people come earlier. The problem is I feel like I am being exploited. People that came in at 8 today went for break earlier than me who started at 7. Only because I know how to do something that nobody knows how I was forced (no other option) to set the restaurant for lunch again after the breakfast finished where other people had a bit of craic behind the curtain. It feels like i am the only competent worker there that knows how to cater for everything even though all of us are just bloody waiters!

EDIT:

It happens almost every week and even though I only work 2 days there (weekend) I am the one that usually stays longer.

Right. PAX: 350. Start at 7/8. Sunday: Breakfast starts at 8 - finishes at 11. People are in the restaurant until 12. Lunch/afternoon teas starts at 1. No time for break till 2-3. Rostered to finish at 3. Stays until 5. Type of service: Breakfast: buffet, Lunch: Plate service (fine dining/elegant).

MathDebater

Who is responsible for training these people? Breaking down the room and resetting it for lunch is not that difficult. Could you not go through it with them for two or three days, teach them what's what and then go for lunch together?

kapisko1PL

MathDebater wrote: »

Who is responsible for training these people? Breaking down the room and resetting it for lunch is not that difficult. Could you not go through it with them for two or three days, teach them what's what and then go for lunch together?

That is why I have posted this thread. Are other places so retar*ed like this one or are they better organized? I am fed up with this crap really and thinking of giving them a notice next week.

Like I said, people I work with (I know this sounds exaggerated) don't put their heart into it. I know this ain't hard because I did it for the past 3 years. But people are just (lazy is a bad word).

Fr_Dougal

kapisko1PL wrote: »

Unfortunately, there is no union representative or anybody like that.

What I get from my wages is basically my wages at a certain rate with no extra pay for over hours and no extra lieu days for anything. I only get paid my wages and my holiday accordingly to how many hours I work. That's it. I might be wrong - but that's how it worked for me for the past 3 years.

If you're not getting paid, don't do the extra hours. In hospitality you get an hourly rate unless you're a manager. They're abusing your goodwill.

Try over in this forum for more advice: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=10

MathDebater

kapisko1PL wrote: »

That is why I have posted this thread. Are other places so retar*ed like this one or are they better organized? I am fed up with this crap really and thinking of giving them a notice next week.

Like I said, people I work with (I know this sounds exaggerated) don't put their heart into it. I know this ain't hard because I did it for the past 3 years. But people are just (lazy is a bad word).

You need to get these people trained and you need to outline these greivances to your manager or supervisor. They should be training staff so they can strip the room after breakfast and reset it for lunch.

You seem like you're good at your job and must enjoy certain aspects of it to stay for 3 years, so it would be a shame to leave without trying to rectify things first.

I may be wrong but it sounds like you're a nice guy and everyones pal, so your fellow staff members take liberties and advantage of that.

Junglewoman

kapisko1PL wrote: »

No, i am being paid the same rate all the time no matter how many hours I do or when I do them.

I don't mind doing long hours. I am fine with that. The problem is that this place is so unorganized that we (the staff) are put under such pressure to finish everything that we barely have time for break sometimes. Like today for example - I started at 7 and only went for break at 3.

Fair enough; you can hire more staff. But first of all teach them about the system at work and how everything works in that specific workplace. Believe me - I know of 5 people that left this place in the space of 3 months because they couldn't stand the sh*t that was going on here.

Like @Scarinae, I am a very loyal employee. I am told to do something and I do it to the best of my abilities. I do not expect to be rewarded with a medal - I just want to know what my job is all about because everyday it is so unpredictable.

My supervisor got a note from the doctor that he suffers from a mental illness caused by stress at work and is now on holiday for few weeks.

Sometimes we also get less than 11 hour rest period between shifts. For example I finished at 12pm last night and had to start work at 7 today. Is this normal in other hotels?

Hospitality is exempt from the minimum 11 hour rest period under the Organisation of Working Time Act. I worked in the industry for years albeit for a decent employer at the time.

osarusan

Sounds like you are being taken advantage of.

Talk to your boss, explain all the hours you've been working (hopefully you have documented them) and also that you are thinking about leaving unless they make changes. You could ask for a raise for all the work you've been doing.

If you are thinking about quitting anyway, what do you have to lose?

kapisko1PL

osarusan wrote: »

If you are thinking about quitting anyway, what do you have to lose?

That other places are the same or even worse.

kapisko1PL

Junglewoman wrote: »

Hospitality is exempt from the minimum 11 hour rest period under the Organisation of Working Time Act. I worked in the industry for years albeit for a decent employer at the time.

So what is the minimum period I have for rest between shifts?

MathDebater wrote: »

You need to get these people trained and you need to outline these greivances to your manager or supervisor.

My supervisor is on a stress illness leave and my manager is going for a smoke every half an hour.

Fair enough; I start doing something and I finish it (serving lunch) but not to a point where I am to stay 2-3 hours after my rostered time without any help.

osarusan

kapisko1PL wrote: »

That other places are the same or even worse.

but you are thinking about quitting anyway, aren't you?

What is it you want to happen? Do you want to work fewer hours? Or do you want to get paid more for working the longer hours?

kapisko1PL

osarusan wrote: »

but you are thinking about quitting anyway, aren't you?

What is it you want to happen? Do you want to work fewer hours? Or do you want to get paid more for working the longer hours?

It is not the hours I complain about. It is the working conditions and the stress associated with the job. I am used to do 14 hour shifts for few days in a row and I am fine with that.

Imagine you are trying to squeeze something the size of a soccer ball into a 2L water bottle. it is the stress and pressure. Not the working hours.

osarusan

kapisko1PL wrote: »

It is not the hours I complain about. It is the working conditions and the stress associated with the job. I am used to do 14 hour shifts for few days in a row and I am fine with that.

Imagine you are trying to squeeze something the size of a soccer ball into a 2L water bottle. it is the stress and pressure. Not the working hours.

If you're going to quit unless the situation changes, go to your boss and explain it - maybe they will make changes, maybe not.

If you are willing to train people to do more jobs to relieve the pressure on you, explain that.

If you think managers are being lazy and leaving work to you, explain that.

Junglewoman

kapisko1PL wrote: »

So what is the minimum period I have for rest between shifts?



My supervisor is on a stress illness leave and my manager is going for a smoke every half an hour.

Fair enough; I start doing something and I finish it (serving lunch) but not to a point where I am to stay 2-3 hours after my rostered time without any help.

I worked in a unionised hotel and the general agreement was 8 hours if staying over in the hotel or 9 if not. In the section I worked in we got together and came up with a roster that gave us the full 11 hours as the back to back shifts were exhausting. I never minded hard work once I got the sleep time to recover but if we hadn't addressed it, nothing would have changed.

mikemac1

In the managers meeting they discuss payroll costs and are told to keep it down. By working for free you're giving your manager the easy life. He doesn't hire staff or put together a proper roster.

You care about your work OP and that's a great ethic to have but nobody in there cares about you.

I've worked in enough hotels to say while another place may treat you better it's still not going to be what you deserve. Start looking to leave the sector OP. Hospitality is notorious for treating staff badly and it's not going to get any better

Hell if you worked in McDonalds they'd give you proper rest periods, payroll would always be correct and with your effort you'd be a manager in no time!

kapisko1PL

osarusan wrote: »

If you're going to quit unless the situation changes, go to your boss and explain it - maybe they will make changes, maybe not.

If you are willing to train people to do more jobs to relieve the pressure on you, explain that.

If you think managers are being lazy and leaving work to you, explain that.

If only things were so easy as we speak of them

Maybe I have phrased things slightly incorrectly. I feel like I am doing work that is most responsible. I might not be the only person putting heart into it because there are handful of other people that also do but it's only a handful. All of this in a very professional manner.

BUT ALL OF THIS IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME and under such pressure and stress. We had numerous occasions where the restaurant wasn't set for service and we had people waiting 10-15 mins for us to finish setting it.

Are other places (hotels/restaurants) like that?

Alice1

In your first post you say you agree to the longer hours because you need the money for college. Later you say you are not paid extra for extra time you put in?

kapisko1PL

Alice1 wrote: »

In your first post you say you agree to the longer hours because you need the money for college. Later you say you are not paid extra for extra time you put in?

I get paid at the same rate no matter how many hours I do. So mathematically: no. of hours x hour wage.

ProudDUB

kapisko1PL wrote: »

Fair enough; I start doing something and I finish it (serving lunch) but not to a point where I am to stay 2-3 hours after my rostered time without any help.

Leave at your rostered time. How you do it is up to you. Say you have to "be somewhere". Say you have a doctors appointment. Say you have family commitments and you have to go home. Or be honest and tell them that you are tired of being expected to do every thing yourself, with no help. And if you don't get some help, you aren't going to stay past your rostered time any more. End of story.

Right now, your co workers/managers/supervisors are taking advantage of your excellent work ethic and the fact that you need the money. That is not going to change unless you set the changes in motion yourself. If work is not done on time for the next shift, then from now on, that is the managers/supervisors problem. It is up to them to get more people to stay back to do it, as a team, and not just sit back all the time and expect you to do it all on your own.

You'll probably meet some resistance along the way, as your colleagues have been on a very cushy number up to now, having some one as conscientious as you for a colleague. They are used to things the way that they are and may push back if you try to change things. But that still doesn't mean that you shouldn't stand up for your self. Best of luck to you !

ardinn

are your paid 8hrs for 8hrs work and 10hrs for 10hrs work or are you paid 8hrs for 10hrs work.

please clear this up before i give my advice.

kapisko1PL

ardinn wrote: »

are your paid 8hrs for 8hrs work and 10hrs for 10hrs work or are you paid 8hrs for 10hrs work.

please clear this up before i give my advice.

10 hours for 10 hours.

Desolation Of Smug

kapisko1PL wrote: »

No, i am being paid the same rate all the time no matter how many hours I do or when I do them.

I don't mind doing long hours. I am fine with that. The problem is that this place is so unorganized that we (the staff) are put under such pressure to finish everything that we barely have time for break sometimes. Like today for example - I started at 7 and only went for break at 3.

Fair enough; you can hire more staff. But first of all teach them about the system at work and how everything works in that specific workplace. Believe me - I know of 5 people that left this place in the space of 3 months because they couldn't stand the sh*t that was going on here.

Like @Scarinae, I am a very loyal employee. I am told to do something and I do it to the best of my abilities. I do not expect to be rewarded with a medal - I just want to know what my job is all about because everyday it is so unpredictable.

My supervisor got a note from the doctor that he suffers from a mental illness caused by stress at work and is now on holiday for few weeks.

Sometimes we also get less than 11 hour rest period between shifts. For example I finished at 12pm last night and had to start work at 7 today. Is this normal in other hotels?

Simple, you're doing the supervisors work, tell the top dog you want to be made supervisor and want a hefty raise. And you want it right away.

It can play two ways - they agree, happy days, or they don't, in which case you leave. You're considering leaving anyway, so you have nothing to lose.

Badly Drunk Boy

kapisko1PL wrote: »

I get paid at the same rate no matter how many hours I do. So mathematically: no. of hours x hour wage.

I think it was unclear from what you originally said but above, you're saying that get paid the basic rate for the hours that you work (no overtime rate) and that's fine if you're happy with it. The thing is you're feeling the pressure of the responsibility that you are putting on yourself because bad management and the fact that you are conscientious worker.

Every now and then, leave at the time you are rostered for even if there's work still to be done. Let all hell break out, and management will have to fix the problem. Maybe.

Triceratops Ballet

Op, you're the one putting pressure on yourself, and your co workers know they don't have to work as hard because you will kill yourself to get the room turned around for service.
Take your break at the appropriate time and start to turn the room around for lunch at your own pace. Don't push yourself. If the room isn't finished its not your fault, it's your managers fault for not managing the team properly, if guest come in a few times and the room is still being set and a few things are still to be done you manager will start to take the situation in hand, and if they don't, its not your fault, or problem!

mikemac1

Breakfast finishes at 11 and there are people still in the room at 12??

These people need to GTFO, breakfast doesn't take a quarter of that time. If that want to chat and read the paper they can shift out to the lobby

No matter what people tell the op deep down they want to stay in the job but they want the job to be better...better managed better organised, that's most unlikely to happen at some stage they are going realise that and then they can make up their mind about what to do.

They are not at the stage of realising its never going to change.

Peter Anthony

Being the only one who knows how to do certain tasks will resort in you being ****ed over. Maybe try and see if others can be trained to do all the stuff you can to share the workload?

kapisko1PL

mariaalice wrote: »

No matter what people tell the op deep down they want to stay in the job but they want the job to be better...better managed better organised, that's most unlikely to happen at some stage they are going realise that and then they can make up their mind about what to do.

They are not at the stage of realising its never going to change.

That's exactly what I am thinking. I know people there and know what I can and what I can't do and after such a long time there it would be a bit of a heart break for me to leave this place.

On the other hand, I am fed u with this place and have my new CV done and a leave notice written. The problem is that I am only 20 and have all the college expenses and a car without which I am like without my right hand but also an accommodation to pay for.

I am concerned that when I leave I won't be able to find anything or that the job I will find is going to be even worse.

LynnGrace

Peter Anthony wrote: »

Being the only one who knows how to do certain tasks will resort in you being ****ed over. Maybe try and see if others can be trained to do all the stuff you can to share the workload?

+1 to this.
And some people will always play the card of 'not knowing' because they will never be asked then to do particular tasks.
OP you sound like a hard worker, but it does sound like you are being taken advantage of, in your current job.

kapisko1PL

MathDebater wrote: »

Who is responsible for training these people? Breaking down the room and resetting it for lunch is not that difficult. Could you not go through it with them for two or three days, teach them what's what and then go for lunch together?

Because we are an establishment that requires a very high standard of service and consumer satisfaction (for obvious reasons I am afraid to post the name or any information) we need to reset everything professionally. This includes 7 pieces of cutlery + 2 glasses (water and wine) + side plate and napkin. All of this per person. Imagine you need to reset a restaurant with (sometimes) 120 covers (usually 80).

If you look at how some people place each of these pieces together you would be shocked. Because I took this job too seriously and now regret it I am the one who usually does the job "best".

LynnGrace wrote: »

+1 to this.
And some people will always play the card of 'not knowing' because they will never be asked then to do particular tasks.
OP you sound like a hard worker, but it does sound like you are being taken advantage of, in your current job.

+1

I am quite happy that my skills are better than others (serving customers and carrying trays) than just "carrying trays" but because of this I am the one out of few that know how to do certain aspects of this job. It is an advantage for me because my skills range is greater but also a disadvantage because there is a greater pressure put on me.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

If the establishment is expecting that level of service from its staff, they need to fcuking train them, end of.

Good news is you sound like you're in a situation to lay down ultimatums, as it'd be a big hassle for them if you left. Talk to your manager, explain that you've been doing unpaid overtime, missing breaks, new staff haven't been trained and as a long-term member of staff you feel you're being taken advantage of. Either they train the new staff and/or make you a supervisor, or you walk.

Hospitality sector are bastards for taking advantage of staff, particularly younger people like yourself who might lack the confidence to address the situation. Don't put up with it, seriously.