My sister doesn't want me to move back home

rawn

Hi guys. My fiance and I had lived in my dad's house for about a year (we're both in college so it suited us, and also suited my dad financially). We shared the biggest room, my dad had his room and my younger sister (19) had the box room. Before we moved in she had the run of both rooms so she kept all of her clothes in the big room, along with a lot of my dad's junk/tools/old furniture. When we moved in, we cleared out the room, and built a shed out in the back garden for my dad's stuff. However, my sister refused to move her clothes out so we had to buy another wardrobe for our stuff. Her excuses ranged from "But my stuff was there first" to "You shouldn't even be here". It caused a lot of tension, as she wandered in and out of our room at will leaving us with no privacy. A few months ago we were given the opportunity to move in with friends, with the premise that it would be for no longer than a year. We reminded my sister that we would have to move back in at some point, as we would both still be in college and rent in Dublin is way too expensive for us to afford. But as it stands, I'm having a lot of trouble in the new house, as i have previously discussed on this forum (can't link from my phone). I am suffering with depression and social anxiety, and as a result have been unable to return to college. I feel like i need to move back home ASAP for my own mental health. My sister has since moved into our old room, but still keeps a lot of her stuff in the box room. I anticipated tension so i spoke to her recently and asked how she would feel if i moved back in, and explained why. She said she didn't want to move out of the big room. I said we could try move into the box room (2 of us on a single bed and 2 computers), she said she would feel bad then. I said it would be fine then she said she "wanted her space". I suggested we discuss some house rules beforehand and work out something that would suit us all and she got mad and said i would "end up getting my way anyways". I even said I'd move into the box room alone and my fiance would stay in our current house and she said again that she wanted her space. I feel bad that i need to come home so soon, and i know she just got settled into the big room, but i don't know what to do from here. My dad is remaining neutral, although he has made it clear that it's his house and if i want to come back i can, no matter what my sister says. However, i don't want to move back in and make her miserable, I'd be better off staying in the current place and being miserable myself, because at the end of the day she's my baby sister and i want her to be happy! Am i being unreasonable?

MagicMarker

At the end of the day, if your dad says you can move back in that's all the matters.

However I would be pissed off if I was your sister and you're trying to kick me out of what is now my room. Leave your fiance where he is and take the box room yourself, it's not fair on your sister to have to share with the both of you.

Sligo1

Your sister sounds like a spoilt brat! If I was in your position and my sister was telling me she wanted space and telling me not to move back into the "family home"... I'd point to where the door is and tell her she is welcome to move out herself as there are plenty of other houses out there that she would have loads of space in. Sorry OP, I know she is your sister but it sounds like she has a terrible attitude! I feel terrible for you and you are not being unreasonable at all. If I was her mother or father I would tell her to shape up or ship out!

MrWalsh

Your sister really sounds selfish and horrible.

Im am already aghast that she thought it was ok to leave her stuff in a wardrobe in your room and wander in and out - and worse, that you didnt just tip the stuff out in a pile and leave her to clear it away!!

Move in and kick her out of the big room, she is a disgracefully selfish brat if she thinks she is entitled to the big room over the needs of two adults!

LegacyUser

I kind of disagree with the other posters here OP. I live in a house share, and there's no way I'd live with a couple. I can imagine how frustrating it must be being essentially forced to live with one. I know you're her sister but a couple is a couple. In fact it must be far worse living with a couple that's comprised of your sister tbh. Now your sister is absolutely being a brat in her behaviour but I can absolutely see why she's annoyed.


I remember your other post and It does sound like rather than dealing with your social anxiety you're running away from it but regardless even in terms of a proper relationship with your fiancé i fail to see how it will continue to be a healthy relationship while living with your dad and your sister. I mean on a basic practical level, what about the sexual side of the relationship? I can't imagine it's great having sex in earshot of your dad and sister ?!! Or your poor sister having to hear that !

I think you absolutely have the right to move back in that's a given. And the right to the bigger room seeing as you're the eldest and presumably paying rent (I presume your sister doesn't?) however I do think it's unfair to move your fiancé in. Yes it's okay with your dad, but if you can't afford a place of your own together then it's unfair to just expect to just be put up at home. I think the healthiest thing for your relationship is for your fiancé to stay put where he is and for you to move back home alone. That seems like the fairest compromise. Then you can still visit your fiancé for some "bedroom" time, and your sister isn't forced to have to live with a couple (which I'd bet money on being the real issue she has with you moving home to be honest)

As an aside op if the shoe was on the other foot and your sister decided to move her boyfriend in would you be comfortable having to share a house with the both of them?

Teyla Emmagan

I do feel a bit sorry for your sister to be honest. Will you and your fiancée be moving in and out for the rest of your lives? One of you might be OK but if you move as a pair you double the number in the house when you appear. And maybe because you're a couple you're very "take over the joint". I presume she's always lived there so I can understand how she would resent you coming and going and coming again. It's her home, not a houseshare.

It's your Dad's house though, what he says goes at the end of the day.

I don't know why he isn't the one in the biggest room though!!

SusieBlue

I don't see your sisters issue at all. Its not like your kicking her out of her bedroom, she still has her own space. Why does she need two bedrooms? She's being difficult for the sake of being difficult, I presume because when you aren't there she has the run of the place.

She will still have her own room. I would not entertain any more of these whims if I were you. Its your dads house and he has said you are welcome and pandering to her by letting her have use of two rooms will do you no good. Don't back down on allowing her keep her stuff in your room..She can have one or the other but not both. The more you give into her the more she'll expect and want. She is making you feel like a guest in your own home because she is taking up so much bedroom space. Don't get your dad involved but make her choose, and insist on having the privacy upheld in the room you get.

Sligo1

The thing is... If it were just the point that the sister voiced her dissatisfaction at the couple moving in. Grand. Perhaps it could be discussed etc and compromises made. However, from the OPs post, the younger sister appears to be a completely self absorbed self entitled creature. Eg. Taking up 2 rooms even when the older sister and her fiancé lived there!

This isn't a house share scenario. This is the fathers house and it is the family home. If the father says the fiancé can stay... The younger sister shouldn't have a say at all. She is old and ugly enough to move out at her age and start paying for accomodation where she would have a say in what goes and who lives there. Right now, she has no entitlement.

Fwiw, a few couples I know have moved back home with their parents a year or so before their wedding so they can save money for wedding and house etc. nothing strange about it imho. Not for me, but if their parents are ok with it there shouldn't be a problem.

MouseTail

Ispywhatshespies wrote: »

I think you absolutely have the right to move back in that's a given. And the right to the bigger room seeing as you're the eldest and presumably paying rent (I presume your sister doesn't?) however I do think it's unfair to move your fiancé in.

I agree with almost all of your post, except the fact the OP is entitled to the larger room. Anyone from a large family knows, when someone moves out, whilst they will always have a bed, they relinquish the right to 'their' bedroom, and the next sibling moves up the pecking order. This is the sisters bedroom now, it would be incredibly unfair to ask her to move bedrooms, regardless of who is paying rent.

evolving_doors

MouseTail wrote: »

I agree with almost all of your post, except the fact the OP is entitled to the larger room. Anyone from a large family knows, when someone moves out, whilst they will always have a bed, they relinquish the right to 'their' bedroom, and the next sibling moves up the pecking order. This is the sisters bedroom now, it would be incredibly unfair to ask her to move bedrooms, regardless of who is paying rent.

OP told sister he didn't mind which room!

strandroad

Moving back on your own into the box room is a very reasonable request so if she's protesting that she's being a brat and don't mind her.
I can see how she could have issues with a couple, or with giving up the room she now has, but if you remove these points and she still says no, she's the one who is unreasonable.
Listen to your dad instead.

Big Bag of Chips

Moving back yourself, to the box room sounds like the most reasonable option. Your sister has moved into the big room. That is now hers. You and your fiancé have no right to move back and kick her out of that room. It is also not practical for you and your fiancé to move into a single bed in the box room. You need to move home for your health. It is not practical that your fiancé move with you so he's just going to have to stick it out where he is, or find somewhere more suitable.

Your sister doesn't get a say. You move back to the box room, and she keeps all her stuff in the big room. Most people can manage with one room!

Tokyo

If your sister in her early teens, I might have a little more sympathy, but at 19, your sister is legally an adult, and as such equally in a position to move out if she doesn't like living under your father's roof. Because at the end of the day, it is exactly that - your father's home, and if you have discussed it with him and he is happy with this living arrangement, then that's really where it begins and ends.

Your sister sounds like she's gotten used to having the run of the house to herself, and I don't think that it is at all unfair for her to sleep in the smaller room, if you and your fiancé are to be sharing a room and a bed together. She lives presumably for free or at a greatly reduced rate in your father's home, and with that comes certain compromise. One compromise being that your father is happy to have you live with them.

LegacyUser

she got mad and said i would "end up getting my way anyways".

Why do you think she said this? Do you /did you often end up getting your own way growing up in the house being the eldest sister? Is it possible she sees you as the apple of your fathers eye and is perhaps a little bit jealous of this and was enjoying the closeness of living alone with her dad without you there anymore?

Is it possible your sister already predicts you acting a bit hard done and moaning/whinging/guiltripping/making her look bad unless she relents and gives you and your fiance the big room? I mean you yourself seem to already know that you and your fiance sharing box room was a ridiculous idea "(2 of us on a single bed and 2 computers)" but yet you suggested it anyways and not surprisingly she said that would make her feel bad. You living alone there and your fiance staying in the houseshare would also be something that you could become very upset about having to live apart from your fiance all because your selfish sister wants a bigger room. And you could say all you want that you wouldn't mind and that you just want your little sister to be happy, but all that does is make you look lovely and kind and your sister look like a spoilt selfish cow as she has already been called on this thread.

So in a way your sister is right. Unless she wants everyone to think she is being a selfish bitch, or have people say "oh look at the poor engaged couple having to live separately, would she not just give them the bigger room", then yes you probably will end up getting your own way anyways.

I wouldn't like to be put in that guiltripped sort of situation either and would be annoyed too if I had to leave the room in my home that I was just settled into unless I wanted to look like a selfish cow to everyone else and made to feel bad by my kind sister who "just wanted me to be happy" . She's a villain no matter what she chooses unless she gives you exactly what you want...

Ideally try giving the houseshare with friends one last shot, or else try again to find somewhere affordable for you and your fiance to share alone. If you must move back home then move by yourself to the box room and try to make an effort not to moan about the situation to your family or anybody who would try to make your sister feel bad about it. Try to appear happy enough with the situation, as you said it's only short term until you finish college this year. best of luck whatever happens.

meeeeh

I suspect your sister's reaction wouldn't be half as bad if you would say at begging that you are moving into the box room alone. When she first complained you offered to stay in box room, although it would be the two of you with two computers. You always knew that was completely unrealistic so why did you suggests for you and your boyfriend/girlfriend to move into ? Or were you just hoping to guilt your sister into giving you her room.

Your sister has very little say in the arrangements but I can imagine why she is annoyed. It is up to your father to decide what he wants to do. It is not up to your sister to allow you to stay in box room and I am sure she will get over it.

cloudatlas

I can see the sisters point of view. Because you have a boyfriend she has to step aside or feels she has to step aside and let you have the room that she has settled in twice whether she likes it or not. That isn't selfishness that is anger because you've put her in a difficult position. If you move into the box room then she will feel guilty at either confining you two to a tiny room or splitting you up as he will have to stay somewhere else. I'd be annoyed too.

LegacyUser

I'd be annoyed too if I were your sister.

Thing is, you moved out, and the arrangements in your Dad's house have since changed. I don't think it is fair to expect that the big room is 'held over' for you, or that you can take it back. It is now her space. I would think that by your Dad 'staying neutral' that means that he is grand with you moving back - but is not ok with telling your sister that she has to give up what is now her room.

I really sympathise with you, you are having a tough time of it - but I don't think it is reasonable to expect that you can move out, and then move back in and expect things to be exactly as they were/as you want them to be - at the cost of disrupting how your Dad's house has been running since you left. And you are kinda emotionally blackmailing your sis a little.

I know it is important to you to have the big room, but I presume she feels that it is impportant to her too. Of course I or anyone here could say that your reasons for needing it trump hers - but not in her world! Plus she & your Dad would have to live with a couple - maybe they are fine with that, most wouldn't be though.

I think your options are to stay where you are with your BF, see if there's any chance at all that you could afford somewhere small/cheap/out of town together, or you move back in to your Dad's place alone, and take the box room.

rawn

OP here. Yes I totally understand what everyone is saying about me guilt tripping her. But I was genuine in the fact that I would take whatever option was available, even if it is the box room. I don't want to make her miserable, honestly I don't. And about me getting my own way, this stems from the fact that I am helpful to my dad (I help around the house, and cook most days, so he is more generous when I ask for favors whereas she does nothing but always asks for lifts to her boyfriends house and my dad says no cos she asks at bad times such as when he has taken his medication and can't drive). About the sexual side, yes this is an issue that we have faced when we lived there but given how I am now it's just something we would have to sacrifice again. My sister and my dad LOVE my fiance living there, he is clean, helps around the house, is friendly and they genuinely love him, I think my sister has a problem with me more than him. We're typical sisters, we argue over borrowing clothes etc (which is a 50/50 kind of thing, we're both the same size). Also, she pays her share of the rent which is 12E per week plus 10E for food/utilities, but we paid 30E each and bought our own food. I have a feeling she is against the tension we built up about her being in and out of my room and me being unhappy about it, which made things tense at the time.

EDIT: BTW my sister spends most of her time sleeping in her boyfriends house (3/4 days a week). And I know no matter how much time she is away from the house her room is still her room, just pointing it out cos she mentioned "wanting her space".

athtrasna

If you pay more rent you should have the bigger room surely?

LegacyUser

rawn wrote: »

OP here. Yes I totally understand what everyone is saying about me guilt tripping her. But I was genuine in the fact that I would take whatever option was available, even if it is the box room. I don't want to make her miserable, honestly I don't. And about me getting my own way, this stems from the fact that I am helpful to my dad (I help around the house, and cook most days, so he is more generous when I ask for favors whereas she does nothing but always asks for lifts to her boyfriends house and my dad says no cos she asks at bad times such as when he has taken his medication and can't drive). About the sexual side, yes this is an issue that we have faced when we lived there but given how I am now it's just something we would have to sacrifice again. My sister and my dad LOVE my fiance living there, he is clean, helps around the house, is friendly and they genuinely love him, I think my sister has a problem with me more than him. We're typical sisters, we argue over borrowing clothes etc (which is a 50/50 kind of thing, we're both the same size). Also, she pays her share of the rent which is 12E per week plus 10E for food/utilities, but we paid 30E each and bought our own food. I have a feeling she is against the tension we built up about her being in and out of my room and me being unhappy about it, which made things tense at the time.

EDIT: BTW my sister spends most of her time sleeping in her boyfriends house (3/4 days a week). And I know no matter how much time she is away from the house her room is still her room, just pointing it out cos she mentioned "wanting her space".

OP this is going to sound harsh but it seems like your allowing your depression and anxiety issues to control your life, I mean sacrificing your sex life just so you don't have to deal with living in a house share is quite frankly unhealthy and is just going to damage your relationship. I mean it's just unrealistic to expect your fiancé to just put up with no sex, that's not a healthy relationship with your lover, that's having a long term sleep over with your friend to be quite frank. If you've already lived in the house previously, I presume your sex life was previously pretty much on hold for a year! No one in a relationship would be happy in that situation, your fiancé may say he's okay with it but it's very unlikely he actually is.

OP you say they both love your fiancé and that may be the case but that's an entirely separate situation from having to live with him. He may be the perfect house mate, but he's still an extra house mate. And no matter how much you claim they love him, living with a couple completely changes the dynamics of a house no matter how nice the couple is.

Okay so your sister does pay rent, then I take back everything I previously said about the larger room, it would be completely unfair to expect your sister to move out of the room if she pays rent for it, it may only be a nominal amount, but if someone moved into the house share you are currently in with your fiancé and wanted your room, would you let them have it? Because that's essentially what you're expecting of your sister, to just hand back the room because you've moved back in.

Also 30 euro each a week is a laughable amount of rent OP so it's not exactly something I'd be lording over your sister with regards trying to get the larger room back.

Have you considered OP that your sister spends 4 nights a week at her boyfriends because maybe she wants to get away from Living with a couple?

Look OP the more you write the more I side with your sister it does seem that your hellbent on moving your fiancé back into the house and getting the bigger room. Rather than considering the opinions and options posters have put to you all you've done is try to justify you moving back in, I help more around the house, everyone loves my boyfriend, he's amazing around the house I pay 18 euro more a week than she does, she's never there. If this is the kind of non argument you use to sway your dad and sister into getting your own way then I'm not surprised she's so annoyed, I would be too!

Look OP yes you're having personal issues at the minute, but it's selfish and unfair to expect special treatment and people to just jump to your beat because of them , your fiancé having to put up with a sexless relationship, your sister having to live with a couple and give up her room, or live with a couple and made to feel the bad guy because she didn't give up your room. Your poor dad being caught up in the middle of all the selfishness. That may sound harsh OP but all actions have consequences, you chose to move out and the consequence of that action was your sister moved into the bigger room. Rather than dealing with that consequence and considering alternative solutions you're acting like a sulky child, "okay we'll move back I to the teeny tiny room, woe is us" when the fairest and only practical solution is for both of you to either find your own place or for only you to move back and not your fiancé.

LegacyUser

I didn't think many would agree with what I was trying to get across in my earlier post, but it seems that some thankfully do. What I was trying to get across when I said she was the "villain no matter what she chooses unless she agrees to what you want", and my questioning you offering the ridiculous option of you and fiance sharing the box room knowing it would make her feel bad, was that you are displaying passive aggressive "martyrdom" traits although you might not realise it or mean to.

I used to be very bad for this myself until I acknowledged how I behaved, try to put myself in others shoes and saw how selfish, irritating and destructive it could be to relationships.

When I read your post I recognised my old self straight away in you. I thought if I wanted what you wanted I would have acted and said exactly the same things as you, and I know my own little sister would have responded exactly the same way your sister is responding right now.

I spent a lot of my life getting my own way both at home and in my current relationship by being very helpful and close with my mother (more like a friend), and by going into sulks whenever things didn't go my way. I'd give weak smiles, say I was "fine" and being the strong person soldering on, but mope about looking tearful and miserable until somebody relented, took pity and gave me what I wanted.

If I was in your shoes and moved into the box room alone whilst fiance stayed in house share, I could picture the old me pretending to be "fine" with it, and if anybody asked saying I just wanted my sister to be happy too, but at the same time I know I would have made tiny little comments frequently about how really I was very "sad" about the situation, such as "oh I can't wait until we live together again, I miss having him close sooo much - but don't worry I'm fine", or "all our other couple friends keep telling us about lovely nights in together they had, it makes me so sad we can't have that - but don't worry I'm fine", and if I was in the situation of sharing box room with fiance well I can imagine the old me would have had a field day! , "I have no room for my things and can never find anything", "my poor fiance can't study properly for college in the house because we are in such a cramped space" - but don't worry we'll soldier through because I am such a nice person and just want my sister to be happy.

It's classic guiltripping and passive aggressiveness, and if your sister has grown up used to you acting this way, I can completely see why she's so angry!
Apologies if you are not normally this way at all, but that is just the impression I am getting from your posts, so sorry if I am taking you up wrong, it just reminded me of how I used to be until it was pointed out to me.

Also I've just noticed that you have actually dropped out of your course so your stay would be a lot longer than just until you both finish college this year. You'd both be there until you at some point resume your course and eventually finish. Also even when you both are finished your courses, high possibility you won't just both walk into well paying jobs. Could be years before you are both in jobs well paying enough that YOU consider it affordable enough to move out together. So it could look to your sister that this is just you edging your way in under the pretence of it being short term when really she expects that it might be much longer term.

If you do choose to take the box room by yourself it would be unfair if you made little comments and acted sad about it towards your father and /or sister until someone offered you the big room, you must suck it up and try to appear genuinely ok with it or else don't do it at all. Would be best though if you and fiance somehow got your own place or if you continued working on your anxiety issues and learnt to live in the houseshare.

tinkerbell

Your sister pays €12 rent and €10 for food/utilities and you and your fiancé pay €60 per week in rent and bring your own food? WTF :eek: €12 on rent? €10 on food and bills?! On that basis, SHE gets the box room - you and fiancé get the big room and she is not allowed store her crap in your room. Agree this with your dad (I'm sure he'll be delighted to get the extra rent). She's 19, an adult, so she either pays her way or else she gets a room proportional to the crappy amount of rent she's paying. What an entitled spoiled brat she is.

rawn

Thanks for the input. Harsh but fair. But there's an awful lot of assuming going on, like assuming my sister stays out most nights cos of us, that's not the case as she does it even now with us not in the house. 30e rent is all we can afford as we're both on BTEA of 156e p/w and we're trying to save money in case a cheap house does appear for us to rent. And i never said we had no sex life in my dads house, just that we'd wait til they were both out (happens daily). And I'm not "expecting" the big room at all, we even researched building a lodge out the back garden or lifting a mobile home out there (my dad was fine with it, he's in bad health so was happy with us being there to help out) but that plan want feasible. But my sister wasn't happy with that plan either. Bottom line is she doesn't want to live with me under any circumstances, so I'll just have to accept that.

meeeeh

It is up to op's father to decide who pays what. Weather anybody is paying rent is irrelevant.

athtrasna

I really don't understand why your sister has a veto here. She's an adult. She pays minimal rent and much less than you would. She also doesn't appear to be as helpful to your Dad as you do OP...so why is your sister being given the final say?

meeeeh

Op, I really don't think there's a problem. You want to move home, your father told you you can and the box room is free. Just move in, your sister will get over it.

rawn

athtrasna wrote: »

I really don't understand why your sister has a veto here. She's an adult. She pays minimal rent and much less than you would. She also doesn't appear to be as helpful to your Dad as you do OP...so why is your sister being given the final say?

To keep the peace, really. My dad just doesn't have the energy to deal with her, which is another reason why I'm reluctant to just move back in without her being okay with it, i don't want to create any more stress for my dad so it would make everyone miserable all around, which i don't want.

meeeeh

It is up to your father to decide how much energy he has to deal with her. He told you that you can move in and you know that the box room is free. I would say your current squabble is more tiring for your father than you just moving in. And since you are prepared to move In alone your sister should get over it quickly and if she doesn't, she can move out.

Sligo1

I don't see why OP should have to move in without her fiancé! If dad says it fine and little sis is kicking up a fuss... Let little sister move out. That way she does have a say who she lives with as she will be paying rent for that entitlement. I'd move in with my fiancé and not give it a second thought. Fwiw, if it was the situation where she was a good sister who wasn't selfish and helped out etc and had a good attitude I
Might have a different opinion. But in going from what the OP has described in her posts Id move in with my fiancé (into whatever room was available) and wouldn't give it a second thought. If she feels bad about the 2 of ye in the box room... Let her feel bad. From the sounds of her she won't feel bad ENOUGH to give up the big room (which she only occupies 50% of the time anyway) to you and your OH.

LegacyUser

Agree with 'can see your sister is annoyed' in that you are coming across (I'm sure unintentionally) as a bit of a martyr in this and I can see that your sister probably feels like she is being put in a lose lose situation regarding the two rooms.

Would it be worth sitting down and asking if you can work out some ground rules with her so that you can guarantee in some way that she **will** have her space. It's not like she hasn't lived with you both before so there must be some kind of reasoning behind not wanting to share with you both, or with you (to be honest, I can't believe you truly are prepared deep down to live apart from your fiancee). I know she is your sister, and no offense, but a couple changes the whole dynamic of a house share, as stated by other posters.

The social anxiety and depression I hope you are getting help with.

LegacyUser

Sligo1 wrote: »

I don't see why OP should have to move in without her fiancé! If dad says it fine and little sis is kicking up a fuss... Let little sister move out. That way she does have a say who she lives with as she will be paying rent for that entitlement. I'd move in with my fiancé and not give it a second thought. Fwiw, if it was the situation where she was a good sister who wasn't selfish and helped out etc and had a good attitude I
Might have a different opinion. But in going from what the OP has described in her posts Id move in with my fiancé (into whatever room was available) and wouldn't give it a second thought. If she feels bad about the 2 of ye in the box room... Let her feel bad. From the sounds of her she won't feel bad ENOUGH to give up the big room (which she only occupies 50% of the time anyway) to you and your OH.

Why should her little sister have to move out or be forced into a position she's so unhappy that she has to move out, or move to a smaller room, or be made feel guilty or "bad ENOUGH" about keeping the bigger room which is now HER own room, or be made feel bad or guilty about not wanting to share with a couple, or guilty about separating an engaged couple by only having the sister stay alone and likely listen to the unhappiness/giving out that that particular situation would bring?

The OP moved out. Moved back in last year with fiance. Moved out again to houseshare. Now wants to move back in again with fiance. Each time the younger sister is getting moved around to make things work for her sister and her fiance.

Your sister has a boyfriend too who she sees several nights a week but who she doesn't try to move into the family home. How happy would you be if your sister moved her partner into HER bigger room and they both payed a bit of rent? No problem at all right? You wouldn't complain that it should be you and your fiance in the bigger room, you wouldn't complain when they took over and played house together as couples do, you'd be totally cool with that right? Forgive me if I don't believe you would, it's just that not many people would.

Something doesn't add up here at all. Supposedly your father and sister LOVE having your fiance living there yet your dad is remaining neutral and your sister is adamant that she doesn't want you to move in together.

The mobile home or building a lodge idea sounds a good idea, why was your sister against that idea? Is it because she already knew (before you looked into it more) that it was just another infeasible idea like your suggestion of you and fiance sharing the box room and that the talk of you two taking the bigger room and turfing her out would inevitably happen again?

It's a pity that those ideas aren't feasible because they do genuinely sound like a great idea but if your sister had an issue with them even if they were feasible, then it really points to the conclusion that it's the living with a couple aspect she has a problem with despite how well she likes your fiance.

If that is the case (the living with a couple being the problem) and you won't get your own place together and you won't live in a houseshare together, then just move into the box room on your own and never again bring up the argument that you and your fiance should be the ones in her room. I'm sure if you never mention the topic again she would eventually be ok that it was just you staying there and not complaining about it. Unless she has some other major reasons for not wanting to share a house even with just you on your own?

You taking the box room on your own would be completely acceptable I think as long as you didn't argue or complain all the time that your fiance should be there too with you.

orthsquel

rawn wrote: »

we even researched building a lodge out the back garden or lifting a mobile home out there (my dad was fine with it, he's in bad health so was happy with us being there to help out) but that plan want feasible. But my sister wasn't happy with that plan either.

At what point was your sister consulted about alternatives like building a lodge or a mobile home in the back? Was it discussed between yourself, your fiance, your dad first and then put to her, or was she involved from the start?

It's more than just about the room, either of them, or alternatives. How is your relationship with your sister generally? And how is she? Is she happy in life or struggling? I get the feeling that the reasoning behind it all is about more than needing her space in terms of room size and general space away from you and the world. It's about not feeling pushed out of the nest, about feeling that she has some say in the family home and not having to cope with someone who walks in and effectively is likely to just take over running things, because I think an issue underneath is how your sister perceives you in comparison to herself. She can't live up to your perfection and helpfulness (and of your fiance) and it will always paint her in a comparatively negative light and you there is a constant reminder of how imperfect and unhelpful she is and she resents being made feel that way because she just can't live up to you and your efforts.

I think realistically you yourself need to be upfront with yourself about how long a stay this is going to be. When you mentioned about building a lodge or having a mobile home, it is indicative of being an intended long semi permanent stay with a view to eventually moving in full time into your dad's house as a couple in charge of it, without your sister. Is that your actual hope, or future intention? Because that sounds like quite a length to go to in a situation like this of which room on a short term basis to even consider it. A caravan, sure, but a lodge?

For yourself and your fiance, I think you need to make a plan that indicates your next steps; if you are to move back home, then you should have a plan that involves an eventual moving out day, such an objective like that to be stuck to would be healthy for both you and your sister, so that both of you can understand it will just be you, just for a short time and by X you'll be gone, with your own plans of a new place, and shared plans of something more permanent for yourself and your fiance already having been started on.

LegacyUser

OP you say you haven't returned to college, I presume you've deffered the year/ dropped out. Could you possibly try find full time work now you're not studying and try save up a bit? I'd imagine you'd save quite a bit in the space of a year, seeing as your rent would be so low at home, and then put the money saved towards rent for a place for you and your fiancé for next year. That puts a time frame on when you'll be able to move out which might appease your sister, and solve your issues with sharing a house with others, and will give you and your fiancé some independence.

LegacyUser

It sounds like there's more going on with your sister than the current situation. Does she perceive it that your Dad is easier on you/does more for you because of your anxiety issues, and that this has happened many times before, where he gave you what you wanted, but not her? That might explain her current stance, but tbh I think she is absolutely right: it's her home, you moved out, and now you want to come back and change everything - not just with the general living space, but you think she should vacate her personal living space so that you & your BF can be more comfortable! I'd be fit to be tied if it was me. You don't get to come and go and pressure everyone else to change their life to suit you. I know you have problems at the minute - but (and I don't mean to be horrible) you have to sort them out yourself, they won't be sorted by making other people change their lives to accommodate your issues.

I don't believe that she loves living with your BF either. I mean come on, he could be a combo of George Clooney/mother theresa, but he's still there, in the living space, being around, possibly hogging the bathroom (dunno if your Dad has more than one bathroom - but 4 adults rather than 2 using the same bathroom would be a right pain). And do you really think a 19 yr old would count it as a plus that he's helpful around the house?! You both pay pretty negligible amounts of rent, you slightly more than her, but you both pay so little that I dont think that gives either of you any 'rights' over the other.

Is the caravan solution doable - is there enough land around your Dad's house to do that? I could be wrong, but I think you might need planning permission for that. Plus I imagine it would cost a fair bit - if you have enough money to invest in buying / installing / heating a caravan, would you not be better off using that to source the cheapest accommodation that you can find where you and your BF can live together without sharing with anyone else?

And how does your BF feel about all of this? It feels like there's lots of upheaval in his life - is he coping with that? Do ye talk about the effect on him? I can't imagine he's too eager to go back to living under your Dad's roof again. Have you had a conversation about his needs?

Magicmatilda

You say you and your fiancé are only getting 156 a week. How much is your sister earning? Is she only getting €100 and that's why she pays less rent?

To be honest I really don't think you should be moving your fiancé in with you. Why does he have to move in?

Also another final question, what action are you taking around your social anxiety? Are you in counselling?

rawn

The lodge/caravan idea want feasible because we'd need planning permission and according to other boardsies it's almost never granted, especially seeing as my dad's house is a council house and doesn't own it. I discussed the idea first with my fiance, then checked if my dad was ok with it, then asked my sister how she would feel about it. She wasn't happy about it because again she mentioned liking her space and she likes the house as it is. It's definitely me she has the problem with, not the couple thing or my fiance. We're computer nerds and live in our room, we never use the tv or living room so it's not like we take over the house! I really just feel she hates that my dad "does what i want" and he always says no to her. Thing is a rarely ask him for favors, at most i ask him to pick me up after a food shop the odd time if I've bought potatoes. I never ask him for money or anything, wheras she is lazy to the extreme, she doesn't cook for herself (she lives on junk food unless someone cooks for her) and forever asks for lifts and loans, and never helps around the house unless she wants something. I would have thought my relationship with my sister was fine, we don't share alot of personal things but we chat and tease each other. If she wanted to move her bf into the house i wouldn't care! He's lovely and treats her like a princess, he helps my mam clean around her house the odd time too.

And about how long we'd want to stay in my dad's, well we both have one year of college left so we can't move out until then when we find work and can afford it. If we could afford anywhere right now we would. We moved to Carlow before cos the rent was cheap and would do it again if it wasn't for college. What a mess, I'm torn between struggling here or struggling at home, either way someone's miserable.

EDIT: she earns 160e p/w, slightly more than me. I am considering work of course but i just don't feel like i could, as it is i can't face college never mind a new environment. I'm taking antidepressants and am still waiting on an appointment with the counselor. My fiance is happy if I'm happy, he'll support whatever choice i make, he's an angel. This house and my dad's house are a 10 minute cycle apart, so if i move home alone we would still see each other every day. And I've said over and over I'm not trying to take the big room away from her! She's welcome to it! She doesn't want me in the box room either cos she keeps her knick knacks in there so the big room doesn't look to cluttered, she wants both rooms for herself.

LegacyUser

rawn wrote: »

he helps my mam clean around her house the odd time too.

Could you move into your mother's house? It sounds like it is close enough in proximity too if your sister's boyfriend who she spends a lot of time with cleans around it the odd time? Even if it's not close to college, you are not in college in yourself at the moment so could you move in with her temporary until you feel a bit better? It might be the solution that causes the least arguments and headaches for yourself?

If for whatever reason that is not a viable solution, and the fact you've just said that your fiances houseshare would only be a 10 minute cycle from your dad's house then I think that makes this whole situation much simpler than I previously thought. Just move into the box room on your own, no arguments, and still go see your fiance daily like you mentioned. I don't really think that's being unfair.

LegacyUser

rawn wrote: »

We moved to Carlow before cos the rent was cheap and would do it again if it wasn't for college.

What a mess, I'm torn between struggling here or struggling at home, either way someone's miserable.

Why don't you move back to Carlow, as you're no longer going to college? Your BF could commute. Plenty of people do.

Re your second point, you seem to think it is perfectly ok to make you feel better by doing something, even if it makes someone else feel worse. Not acceptable OP. YOU need to get YOU feeling better, you cant impose on others lives to their detriment just because it makes your life easier/makes you feel better. And how would you be struggling at home? - everyone else would, you (from what I've read of your previous posts) would not be struggling at all at home. You'd be back in your comfort zone; everyone else would have their lives knocked about though. I honestly don't think you are seeing that you just want what YOU want (albeit for good reasons) - but what about what other people want?

Sligo1

can see why ur sister is annoyed wrote: »

Why should her little sister have to move out or be forced into a position she's so unhappy that she has to move out, or move to a smaller room, or be made feel guilty or "bad ENOUGH" about keeping the bigger room which is now HER own room, or be made feel bad or guilty about not wanting to share with a couple, or guilty about separating an engaged couple by only having the sister stay alone and likely listen to the unhappiness/giving out that that particular situation would bring?
.

The sister should move out because she wants her own space! It's simple as that really. That is exactly what she has asked for. I am just going from what the OP has posted. I'm not making any second guesses or saying something doesn't add up or there has to be something else going on. I am taking OPs words at face value and making basing my opinion solely on them rather than making suppositions based on imaginary images or words that may or may not be the case.

This IS NOT the little sisters house. Yes it is her home but not her house. It is the fathers house. And the father has said the op AND her fiancé can move back in (even if it is the box room). The little sister should not get to say who and who doesn't move in. As I've said in a previous post, it is this ridiculous selfish level of entitlement (so prominent in young adults these days) that I cannot abide. Even when OP lived their with her fiancé her little sister had her clothes and numerous other things in OPs room, walking in and out at free will. Immature awful behaviour from a young adult who should have more respect.

Sorry if I'm harsh, but this is the exact reason why I do not feel one but sorry for this self entitled 19 year old. And those here who would think this behaviour normal for their children?? And condone this behaviour? ... Well that's a whole new thread.... I know of ANY of my children were giving orders to their siblings about living arrangements in MY house or making their siblings feel unwanted there would be very strong words had. OPs father is remaining neutral due to the stress this is causing when he is not in 100% health himself. Nothing else. This is what the OP has said. People making unfounded assertions on this when there have been no words to back this up imo is unhelpful to the OP. Of course people are entitled to their opinions... But a lot of these opinions seem to be based on air and not the OPs words. As I've said previously, I might change my opiniom about this if OP had provided other facts to the contrary.

OP you're in a bad place. And if you need to be at home because of this and that is definitely the best place for you then move home. And if you need your fiancé there with you to support you through this hard time then there is no reason why he shouldn't move back aswell. Especially since your dad has given it the OK.

MouseTail

The nastiness towards your sister is quite uncomfortable to read. In a few years time you and your sister will probably be close, but now you are still at that competitive stage, and ideally you wouldn't be living together as adults. But as neither of you are financially independent yet the only option is the box room on your own without being a martyr about it.

Neither of you should be moving boyfriends or partners in to your dads house, he has no duty to house them and shouldn't be put in that situation.

Stavro Mueller

Rawn, what sort of help are you getting for your anxiety and depression issues. From what I can see they are the tail that's wagging the dog here and it's not healthy. It's stopping you from going to college and you can't even cope in a house share. My thinking is that by returning to your dad's house you're simply running away from your problems.

Your fiancé must be an angel because you are putting the poor guy through the ringer. Not only does he have to cope with having a partner who's anxious but you're dragging him back to live with your dad. I'm sorry but no matter how nice your dad's house is and how well they get on, nobody wants to live with their in-laws. I think your determination to rush back to your comfort zone is steamrolling him. You should think very long and hard about the effect this is all having on him. Not to be dramatic or anything but you could lose him over this.

You can bitch and moan all you want about your sister but I feel sympathy for her. As someone who has house shared in the past, the one thing I HATED was sharing with a couple. Most other people are the same I might add. Couples create a dynamic of their own. If I was your sister it wouldn't matter whether you were living in the wardrobe. No matter how wonderful you try to convince us that your fiancé is, he is a stranger on your family's floor.

You're going to steamroll this through anyway though, aren't you? It actually doesn't matter whether your sister's doing cartwheels of joy outside the front door or is massively annoyed. You're coming home come hell or high water. At what cost though?

Penny Tration

I have to echo the above post in querying what help you're receiving for your anxiety?

If you're receiving treatment and have been advised to move home, fair enough. If, however, you're just taking the easy option by going home, then yeah, I see why your sister is annoyed.

You're both paying a ridiculously low amount of housekeeping so I don't really see why there should be an entitlement to the bigger room.

Your sister is living there full time, you're coming and going, so she should be the one getting the bigger room. In our house, whoever is there full time gets the better room and anyone coming and going has to share with the youngest.

You said you'd be gone for a year, and are now trying to take back the bigger room after a few months. Your fiance shouldn't be moving in either. It's not his home and living with a couple is hell. I adored my sister's ex, but the 6 months he lived with us was a pain in the ass, listening to their rows, not feeling able to relax in my own home.

I really think you're being unfair. You should be seeking treatment for your health issues, not expecting your sister to pander to them.

MrWalsh

The longer this thread goes on the more I am inclined to think the OP and her partner should sort out their own separate living arrangements and just quit the idea of the Dad's house altogether.

Even the thread is stressful to read, so what would living there be like?

OP it is your choice to move out of the houseshare. You are letting your mental health issues control your life.

joebothers

Completely depends on the situation really. If your boyfriend is a bit of a prick and doesn't get on well with your sister then yea I can see why she doesn't want him living there. It also depends if you get on with your sister.

If your sister is acting like a spoilt brat then ye need to sit down like adults and discuss house rules maybe saying we'll stay out of the sitting room and only watch t.v in the bed room. Also give her priority of the bathroom.

If she's still acting up you and your father need to tell her to vacate the room. If she doesn't tell her her stuff will be moved.

I was in a similar situation but didnt mind one bit them moving back home saving for a mortgage. Kept to their room mostly and left the sitting room to the rest of the family. Always asked as well if some friends could come over well in advance.

Blue Iris

I've just read through the whole thread and I don't get that the OP is only thinking of her own needs. I think it sounds as if the younger sister is operating out of a far greater sense of entitlement. She has said she's happy to move back to the box room without her boyfriend. She's making no demands of her sister. Might there be an issue of you wanting your sister's approval because you are full of self doubt at the moment? If this is the case you are disempowering yourself and that will increase your levels of anxiety. I hope your counselling appointment comes through soon. Do whatever feels best for you. Making a decision like this from your own centre will put you back on the path to recovery.

bee06

OP, have you had an honest conversation with your sister about your mental health issues and how much your current living situation is affecting you? You said in your first post that all you want is for her to be happy and she should want the same for you. If she can't see that she's a selfish girl in my opinion.

rawn

I feel like some people are not reading my posts at all! I have said many times that I'm not expecting or demanding the big room, i have literally explored every other option! We pay "laughable" rent because it's all we can afford and it's all my dad wants, when we first lived with him it was supposed to be short term so we paid 10e each, the same as my sister, but when it started to look more long term we decided to pay 30e each, which was all we could afford and my das is fine with it. And if i was just going to move back in whether my sister liked it or not, i wouldn't be here posting! My fiance is easy-going with life in general, I'm not trying to put him through the ringer he's just genuinely a sweet and supportive person who knows i would do the same for him in a heartbeat. My sister LOVES him, if it were him moving in without me she'd be delighted, it's me she doesn't want to live with. The "couple dynamic", again, not an issue, as i said we live in our rooms and never use the living room or anything, i know people have issues living with couples but believe me if she had a problem with it she'd tell me! But she just wants to have 2 rooms to herself. And i don't mean to make her sound like a bad person I'm must trying to present the facts, she's my baby sister no matter what age she is, and i love her. I don't want to move back in if she is miserable with me there so therefore I've made up my mind to just stay put and get on with it.

Penny Tration

Op, you've been asked it a few times and it's actually pretty important to give clarity on the situation - are you in treatment for your anxiety?

If you are, and you and your specialist feel you should move back home, then do it.

If you're not,it may be time to face up to your anxiety and seek help instead of just going back home to escape the anxiety, for your own sake.

bee06

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

Op, you've been asked it a few times and it's actually pretty important to give clarity on the situation - are you in treatment for your anxiety?

If you are, and you and your specialist feel you should move back home, then do it.

If you're not,it may be time to face up to your anxiety and seek help instead of just going back home to escape the anxiety, for your own sake.

OP has already said she is on antidepressants and waiting for an appointment with a counsellor.

Penny Tration

bee06 wrote: »

OP has already said she is on antidepressants and waiting for an appointment with a counsellor.

My apologies, I obviously missed that

tinkerbell

The ideal situation is for OP and fiancé to get their own place. However ideal is not always reality and OP has said that they can't afford their own place. Somebody posted saying that nobody likes living with their in-laws but this isn't always necessarily the case. Some people do actually get on with their families. If they all get along, then this as a short-term arrangement is probably perfectly fine for the OP's fiancé so it's unfair to say that the OP is putting him through the ringer. OP has depression / anxiety for goodness sake. I find it offensive that a previous poster said "not only does your partner have to cope with your anxiety" etc. Jees, this crappy attitude towards mental health really is not helpful at all. If someone had a physical illness, you wouldn't say "your poor fiancé has to cope with you having [insert some form of sickness here]". OP has said she is trying to get help for it and if that help includes moving back to her dad's house for a bit then so be it. Anxiety / depression is not something that is just cured by taking a few paracetemol for a few days and poof you're all better again :rolleyes:

OP, I still firmly believe that you and fiancé should move back in and take the bigger room. It would be unfair to have to live apart from your fiancé just because your sister is a spoiled little wagon. He's your fiancé - he's gonna want to live with you! And marriage vows do say "in sickness and in health" - he just wants to support you presumably so would rather live with you. Talk to your dad, do not discuss this any further with your sister. She does not own the house and it's about bloody time that she got a sharp dose of reality. She can't just decide "she needs her space" in a house that is not her own. If she wants space, she can move out. At the end of the day, there are 2 rooms and one fits 2 people, one fits 1 person. You and fiancé are paying your way so ye get the bigger room. If she doesn't like it, well she knows where the door is. She's 19 so probably about time she moved out for a bit anyway just to experience the real world.