I'm great, I've just run a marathon, adore me...

robinph

...well it was actually walking/ only 10km/ took me 12+ hours but I'm awesome. Tell me I'm awesome. Anyone got an out of focus picture of a Garmin to share?



Discuss...



I'm sure I'm going to regret this, but I'm also sure there is useful discussion to be had on how you convert the current running boom (people running for the sake of running) into performances (with people running to get faster). How do we help make that happen, as experienced and interested runners? What attitudes cause people to just want to complete and not care about competing?

Do not mention the other thread that was culled yesterday, and do not name people.

johnruns

This should be fun:pac:

Tristram

Thread title: How to convert running boom into better running performances?

Message: I'm sure there is a useful discussion to be had on how you convert the current running boom (people running for the sake of running) into performances (with people running to get faster). How do we help make that happen, as experienced and interested runners?

Response: I think more PR work from local clubs encouraging these social runners to join and participate in structured, tiered training would help. I think it could be similar to CrossFit were you get a group of people together who want to train because they enjoy the exercise and if the gap isn't too much they help push and guide each other on to greater things.

MrWalsh

robinph wrote: »

how you convert the current running boom (people running for the sake of running) into performances (with people running to get faster). How do we help make that happen, as experienced and interested runners?

Why do you want to make that happen? Some people just like to go out and have a run by themselves and not compete. Im one of them.

RayCun

Tristram wrote: »

Thread title: How to convert running boom into better running performances?

yeah, might want to change the thread title to have a better chance of a constructive discussion

ThisRegard

robinph wrote: »

(people running for the sake of running)

Surely you simply mean people exercising and staying fit?

average_runner

RayCun wrote: »

yeah, might want to change the thread title to have a better chance of a constructive discussion

Haha constructive discussion!!!

Run and Jump

If someone feels 'awesome' after doing their first marathon or race, perhaps after years of inactivity, fair play and let them post it all over social media. Maybe that buzz is what will make them continue and think of faster times or joining a club. After all, runners on this forum share their finishing times, race reports and training logs - is that really any different? I'm not a fan of inspiration quotes or happy-clappy "running community" stuff but I like seeing people buzzing about running.

I started by doing a marathon, and after that I wanted to do another marathon but in a faster time. I moved from participation to performance simply because I wanted to, not from any outside encouragement or inspiration.

Ososlo

MrWalsh wrote: »

Why do you want to make that happen? Some people just like to go out and have a run by themselves and not compete. Im one of them.

I think you have a great point there and this is something more of us around here need to appreciate and understand more.
It seems that the majority of posters on AR are extremely competitive either just with themselves or with themselves and others.
Especially people with logs. I don't think I've ever seen a log in which the poster was not looking to improve.
However there are probably lots of people who just like to jog a few times a week or whatever just because they enjoy it and are not looking to get faster or go longer etc.
There is absolutely nothing in the world wrong with this and none of us should have a problem with that and these posters should be welcome to contribute to the forum too.

demfad

robinph wrote: »

...well it was actually walking/ only 10km/ took me 12+ hours but I'm awesome. Tell me I'm awesome. Anyone got an out of focus picture of a Garmin to share?



Discuss...



I'm sure I'm going to regret this, but I'm also sure there is useful discussion to be had on how you convert the current running boom (people running for the sake of running) into performances (with people running to get faster). How do we help make that happen, as experienced and interested runners? What attitudes cause people to just want to complete and not care about competing?

Do not mention the other thread that was culled yesterday, and do not name people.

Yes you're right. Instead of having a healthy balance of exercise in their life they should devote ALL their spare hours to running and obsessing over tiny increases in mediocre marathon times. The self centred so and sos!

plodder

Run and Jump wrote: »

If someone feels 'awesome' after doing their first marathon or race, perhaps after years of inactivity, fair play and let them post it all over social media. Maybe that buzz is what will make them continue and think of faster times or joining a club. After all, runners on this forum share their finishing times, race reports and training logs - is that really any different?

It's no different at all. There were complaints yesterday about back-slapping. But, back-slapping (or encouragement) is what this forum is all about.

walshb

Back slapping and encouragement is very important but surely it needs to be balanced with realistic goals and desires, and sometimes a person being told that they are a bit 'delusional' with what they want to do or achieve?

Sacksian

1. What is so wrong with just wanting to complete? Whenever I’m injured, I miss the act of running, not competing.

2. If you want better athletes at the top, you need better athletes at the bottom. That’s a problem of recruitment. It’s about getting the best juveniles, not turning social runners into Olympians.

3. I’ve never seen a picture of a garmin posted online, apart from here, or people being adored for running a marathon. And is a picture of a garmin really so different to a race report/training log? I’m sure all of the people giving out about backslapping and garmin watches are above documenting their own modest achievements in graphic detail for public consumption and acclaim. (I don't have a problem with either, btw).

4. This is going to be another car-crash.

DubOnHoliday

walshb wrote: »

Back slapping and encouragement is very important but surely it needs to be balanced with realistic goals and desires.....

However some groups balance it with ice cream and coffee after. I don't really have a problem with either approach.

Even though this non-competetive running boom is an excuse to take it easy, some people are happy with that. Its just not for me.

walshb

Sacksian wrote: »

4. This is going to be another car-crash.

Indeed. It's worded that way. Lot more inflammatory/provocative than anything in the original thread.

MrWalsh

Ososlo wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing in the world wrong with this and none of us should have a problem with that and these posters should be welcome to contribute to the forum too.

At the risk of over sharing, I actually run because I had a dislocating knee from age 12 that a brutal surgery was done on age 15, which left me largely unable to use my leg properly for the next 20 years. After another surgery in my mid 30s I suddenly had enough stability to do more than walk gingerly along.

So I started trying to run on it a bit and it worked - after a 20+ year hiatus from running I was like a small child learning to walk, my legs would go faster than I could control them and Id fall at the beginning, but slowly I gained control.

Now I still suffer from knee problems and my surgeon tells me not to wear it out too much so I know Ill never be competing or even ever going past 8-10k probably, but it helps with the pain in the joint, it helps "rebalance" me after 20 years compensation and it makes me feel alive again.

But its really really hard for me and I am a slow runner, but maybe in 10 years time Ill be a bit faster. Im playing the long game

ThisRegard

walshb wrote: »

Indeed. It's worded that way. Lot more inflammatory/provocative than anything in the original thread.

And can I be the first to say, this has to be the stupidest thread eva, or whatever the cool insult is at the moment.

robinph

walshb wrote: »

Indeed. It's worded that way. Lot more inflammatory/provocative than anything in the original thread.

I feel that I caught the essence of the discussion. Anyway, the opening post in this thread does not reflect the views or opinions of the poster robinph in case anyone wasn't sure on that. That post has clearly done what I intended, and got the discussion going.




I think that what the likes of a parkrun environment are doing is fantastic. It allows all people to have a go at covering a distance at whatever pace they feel like, no pressure, no cost, cake afterwards if they want it, get to "race" against the clock if they want it... and if they are at the pointy end and happen to not be a member of a club they will soon find themselves approached by one of the local clubs suggesting that they have a go joining. When we have run club championship events in parkruns it also has the effect of showing that despite non-club members believing that clubs are only for the super fast elites (I thought the same back in the day before Boards AC happened), there is a full range of abilities, shapes and sizes, and clubs are for everyone if they want them to be.

Yes, the current boom in runners are not directly going to produce the next batch of olympians as those people are more than likely past their performance prime. But their children are the ones where the next batch of talent will come from. Showing that running is a good, fun and supportive activity to take part in is what we need to encourage. Don't scare people off with excessive competitiveness, but also allow people to compete and encourage them to do so if they show some talent.

Keeping the nation healthy and not sat on the sofa for their sport is the main benefit from the current running boom. If we can find a few elite competitors in amongst the masses as well then so much the better.

Being active at all is to be encouraged and should be applauded and there is no problem with that, but performing to your actual maximum ability should be applauded ten times more and nobody should be embarrassed to do so or accused of being elite as if it is a bad thing.

Dubgal72

Thread title sucks...

ThisRegard

robinph wrote: »

I feel that I caught the essence of the discussion. Anyway, the opening post in this thread does not reflect the views or opinions of the poster robinph in case anyone wasn't sure on that. That post has clearly done what I intended, and got the discussion going.

The overriding opinion being that there's nothing to discuss though.

plodder

DubOnHoliday wrote: »

However some groups balance it with ice cream and coffee after. I don't really have a problem with either approach.

I doubt anyone eats ice-cream after every run. No more than some people drink beer after (or during ) every run. Everything in moderation, including moderation.. and all that.

Even though this non-competetive running boom is an excuse to take it easy, some people are happy with that. Its just not for me.

What parkrun shows is that many runners who would have appeared to be non-competitive before (as in they probably just ran on their own, and never in races), are actually competitive to some degree - maybe not as much as your typical club runner. But, they push themselves hard, and strive to improve over time. Personally, I think clubs could easily attract a good percentage of these people, if they want them. They are already competing in the big open club races.

28064212

Sacksian wrote: »

2. If you want better athletes at the top, you need better athletes at the bottom. That’s a problem of recruitment. It’s about getting the best juveniles, not turning social runners into Olympians.

This. The "social running" boom is not going to produce elites. People taking up running in their late 20s or later are extremely unlikely to get to elite level, regardless how the boom is handled or what resources are pumped in to that level.

Two things will contribute to improving Ireland at elite level:

1. More juveniles
2. Better coaching

The boom does help with (1), in that adults who run are more likely to take their kids to the local AC. But the facilities have to be there to accept that intake, and the PR has to be there to make parents aware of it. That's where all AAI efforts should be going. The boom is taking care of itself

swervring

The first post is extremely off-putting for anyone like me for whom running 10k is a massive achievement, irrespective of the time it took. While I appreciate that there are plenty of people who would view my times as ridiculous and feel that I'm not trying hard enough, the point is that actually getting out and running is an achievement in itself, having been overweight for over half my life and leading a mainly sedentary lifestyle since leaving school. Personally I don't see anything wrong with someone feeling proud of themselves for something which to them is an achievement but to others is a Sunday stroll.
Plastering every run you do all over social media is another matter however, and says more about social media culture and over-sharing than running.

RayCun

As said above, I don't think we need to convert the running boom into better performances, because if people aren't interested in better performances they just want to stay fit, that's cool too.

How do you get the people interested in better performances into clubs? That's another question.

And yeah, the running boom among adults isn't going to lead to those adults running national records. But juvenile club membership is growing alongside adult membership, the kids are there if we can train them. And adult running boomers are potential coaches and club administrators and race officials if you can get them involved

Chivito550

Running for fitness is great. No issues there. The person is engaging in exercise.

Running for fitness, yet at the same time posting pictures of garmins on Facebook showing the distance and pace you ran, looking for congratulations. This is a contradiction. People running for fitness only aren't interested in pacing, probably don't own Garmins (why would you), and wouldn't tell the world about it. So these people on some level are now treating running as a more competitive activity by engaging in the above, and so should be judged by the same standards as everyone else who does so IMO.

MrWalsh

Chivito550 wrote: »

Running for fitness, yet at the same time posting pictures of garmins on Facebook showing the distance and pace you ran, looking for congratulations. This is a contradiction..................................
So these people on some level are now treating running as a more competitive activity by engaging in the above, and so should be judged by the same standards as everyone else who does so IMO.

Why? People post nonsense on social media daily. And maybe for the people who know them they realise that 5k in an hour is a huge achievement for this person.

Are people who run as a competitive activity the only ones allowed to have Garmins and look to be congratulated? What a horrible elitist attitude. Perhaps we should discourage people from running at all unless they are elite?

Sacksian

RayCun wrote: »

As said above, I don't think we need to convert the running boom into better performances, because if people aren't interested in better performances they just want to stay fit, that's cool too.

How do you get the people interested in better performances into clubs? That's another question.

And yeah, the running boom among adults isn't going to lead to those adults running national records. But juvenile club membership is growing alongside adult membership, the kids are there if we can train them. And adult running boomers are potential coaches and club administrators and race officials if you can get them involved

That, in a nutshell, might be the main difficulty in converting the running boom into better performance, generally, for athletics.

I know of very few clubs (in Dublin, at least) that aren't oversubscribed for juveniles. So, the clubs are getting people in but they're not always able to take everyone that turns up. And part of the reason they're oversubscribed is that they don't have enough coaches to cover all the juveniles.

Converting the adult running boomers bringing their kids to the club is a potential opportunity but it's a challenge too - it isn't easy to get parents involved in coaching or administration in any sport.

ThisRegard

Why do you feel the need to judge anyone to any standard? Why do you care what they do? Should people out exercising not be allowed wear watches either?

robinph

MrWalsh wrote: »

Why? People post nonsense on social media daily. And maybe for the people who know them they realise that 5k in an hour is a huge achievement for this person.

Are people who run as a competitive activity the only ones allowed to have Garmins and look to be congratulated? What a horrible elitist attitude. Perhaps we should discourage people from running at all unless they are elite?

I think the point was more subtle than that. If you are posting pictures of your garmin or a link to your strava PB then you are both looking for the same thing, acknowledgement that you've done something impressive. No problem with that at all.

To post those links and then claim that you are not competitive is the contradiction though. By making those posts you are clearly competitive, even if it is just with your own watch. People seem to be embarrassed about being competitive though as if it is a bad thing.

Chivito550

MrWalsh wrote: »

Why? People post nonsense on social media daily. And maybe for the people who know them they realise that 5k in an hour is a huge achievement for this person.

Are people who run as a competitive activity the only ones allowed to have Garmins and look to be congratulated? What a horrible elitist attitude. Perhaps we should discourage people from running at all unless they are elite?

I don't care if somebody is 40 stone and manages to get through 5k in an hour. Athletics is a sport. The beauty of this simple sport is that the clock says all. There's no handicapping system in place to adjust times due to somebody's weight. If somebody wants to take part in this great sport (and the more the better), then one should accept that there is a hierarchy in place, and try your best to climb up through such ranks, regardless of what level it is.

If one just wants to treat running as exercise that's fine, just don't go advertising your times around, and looking for pats on the back. People who engage in walking, trekking and whatever other form of non competitive exercise don't do this so why should those who run for fitness only do it?

Competitive to me, means somebody trying to improve their times, regardless of ability.

davedanon

I posted on the other thread about coming to a crossroads in one's running 'career'. One road leads to more training, more competition and better times. The other is the easier road. It means carrying on as you were. In order for a given individual to be feel comfortable with this they need to 'surround themselves', whether in actuality or in a virtual social media sense, with like-minded people. Anyone who joined a club would quickly realise that they were embarrassing themselves by posting up Garmin pics of a 3 mile run at 10 minute pace, which represents a slow warm-up in most club environments. In this respect, certain groups on social media, while set up for laudable reasons, have become negative drivers in this culture of the mediocre. It's quite obvious there are talented runners out there who aren't in clubs. Plenty of club runners (and my hand's in the air) have had the slightly chastening experience of being out-run in a parkrun or mass-participation race by some dude (or dudess) in floppy shorts and a metallica t-shirt. A certain number of these people would definitely take that extra step, if they were told how much they could improve with proper training. But if they are surrounded by people who are telling each other all the time that what they're achieving is great and fantastic, then this unreal environment is one they won't ever escape from. If someone is happy doing what they are doing, then by all means, have at it. Let's not have people deluding themselves, though. There is a difference between encouragement and 'back-slapping', to use the contentious phrase.

dublin runner

swervring wrote: »

The first post is extremely off-putting for anyone like me for whom running 10k is a massive achievement, irrespective of the time it took. While I appreciate that there are plenty of people who would view my times as ridiculous and feel that I'm not trying hard enough, the point is that actually getting out and running is an achievement in itself, having been overweight for over half my life and leading a mainly sedentary lifestyle since leaving school. Personally I don't see anything wrong with someone feeling proud of themselves for something which to them is an achievement but to others is a Sunday stroll.
Plastering every run you do all over social media is another matter however, and says more about social media culture and over-sharing than running.

Great to read a post like this. As you said, the first post is indeed very off-putting and in my opinion, somewhat inflammatory. I encounter runners from nearly every standard on a near daily basis. From the 70 minute 10km runner to the top national runners, it doesn't matter one bit to me. Once the person has a good attitude and simply wants to improve I respect and admire their achievements/times.

RayCun

MrWalsh wrote: »

Are people who run as a competitive activity the only ones allowed to have Garmins and look to be congratulated?

If you have a garmin and are tracking your runs like that, you probably aren't someone who just wants to go for a run and not worried about times.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with people posting photos of garmins. What's the difference, really, between posting a photo of your garmin, or posting a status update that says how far/how fast you ran, or keeping a training log here, or posting your time in the best of/round numbers threads, or updating the 1000 mile challenge table. People like to share the things they're proud of. If you're not interested, don't follow them, or don't read their log, or don't read the threads. Nobody is forcing you to pay attention, so there's no reason to get upset about what other people take pride in.

ThisRegard

dublin runner wrote: »

As you said, the first post is indeed very off-putting and in my opinion, somewhat inflammatory.

Dare I say it, but someone said to me that it's basically trolling.

walshb

Posting Garmin photos is tame in comparison to some of the tripe people post on social media!

This is morphing into the Rant thread!

dublin runner

ThisRegard wrote: »

Dare I say it, but someone said to me that it's basically trolling.

I probably shouldn't ask but what do mean by that?

ThisRegard

RayCun wrote: »

Nobody is forcing you to pay attention, so there's no reason to get upset about what other people take pride in.

It seems to be the basis for starting this whole thread though, by someone who should know better.

Sacksian

robinph wrote: »

I think the point was more subtle than that. If you are posting pictures of your garmin or a link to your strava PB then you are both looking for the same thing, acknowledgement that you've done something impressive. No problem with that at all.

To post those links and then claim that you are not competitive is the contradiction though. By making those posts you are clearly competitive, even if it is just with your own watch. People seem to be embarrassed about being competitive though as if it is a bad thing.

We don't know what anyone's motivations for posting a picture or link is.

Pride in a personal achievement is not the same as claiming it is impressive or should be generally acclaimed.

Surely, a lot of the content of these forums is evidence of this.

It's just people sharing their running activities (and mostly with people who choose to read it!).

ThisRegard

dublin runner wrote: »

I probably shouldn't ask but what do mean by that?

I didn't say it, but would agree with the sentiment. The thread title and the op's admission in the OP appears to be designed to be derogatory and invoke a particular kind of response, and not to gain anything constructive.

davedanon

ThisRegard wrote: »

Dare I say it, but someone said to me that it's basically trolling.

Hahaha. Who MOD'S the MODS???

bigslice

I know lots of people who are running - at all levels from 2.50 marathon to people running for the first time in their 40's. I've never seen any of them post on social media with pictures of Garmins or tell the world what they've run and how quick/slow they where. You may see pictures of them in their running groups after an event with their medals etc but what harm is that. They certainly don't post their times unless they are hitting PB's and that's no different from running a log/blog.

I can only assume if there are such people out there posting pictures of Garmins looking praise that they are very much the minority and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. It might encourage others to give it a try and we get more people involved and in the sport, who knows the benefits and knockon effect this has.

Its a discussion about nothing really - if people want to run cause they enjoy, brilliant; if people want to run and be competitive with themselves and others, brilliant. Neither are any lesser in my eyes.

dublin runner

ThisRegard wrote: »

I didn't say it, but would agree with the sentiment. The thread title and the op's admission in the OP appears to be designed to be derogatory and invoke a particular kind of response, and not to gain anything constructive.

I should have reread your comment before posting :rolleyes:. I got what you meant on the second reading. Yeah, totally agree with you. Nothing good can come from this thread for me at least, I am getting my coat and walking towards the exit door.

RayCun

davedanon wrote: »

In this respect, certain groups on social media, while set up for laudable reasons, have become negative drivers in this culture of the mediocre.

there is a group on facebook that is full of garmin pics, congratulatory message and motivational posters. But even there, people are looking for advice, setting themselves targets, trying to improve. Sure, it's all very happy-clappy and people are getting excited over not-very-fast times, but that's because they're beginners, they're full of that beginner's enthusiasm. Look back to the first page of my training log and you'll see plenty of slow times, posts about even slower training runs, excitement about running a whole 7 miles!

walshb

bigslice wrote: »

I know lots of people who are running - at all levels from 2.50 marathon to people running for the first time in their 40's. I've never seen any of them post on social media with pictures of Garmins or tell the world what they've run and how quick/slow they where. You may see pictures of them in their running groups after an event with their medals etc but what harm is that. They certainly don't post their times unless they are hitting PB's and that's no different from running a log/blog.

I can only assume if there are such people out there posting pictures of Garmins looking praise that they are very much the minority and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. It might encourage others to give it a try and we get more people involved and in the sport, who knows the benefits and knockon effect this has.

Its a discussion about nothing really - if people want to run cause they enjoy, brilliant; if people want to run and be competitive with themselves and others, brilliant. Neither are any lesser in my eyes.

I think this post ends the debate!:)

plodder

Sacksian wrote: »

That, in a nutshell, might be the main difficulty in converting the running boom into better performance, generally, for athletics.

I know of very few clubs (in Dublin, at least) that aren't oversubscribed for juveniles. So, the clubs are getting people in but they're not always able to take everyone that turns up. And part of the reason they're oversubscribed is that they don't have enough coaches to cover all the juveniles.

Converting the adult running boomers bringing their kids to the club is a potential opportunity but it's a challenge too - it isn't easy to get parents involved in coaching or administration in any sport.

I've heard it said that running is a selfish sport. It's not team oriented obviously and unlike GAA (say) when people reach a certain age, they just keep going, training and competing, which is great at one level, but I guess it means there are less people who get into coaching and administration. But, I would have thought that running boomers (particularly the older ones) would be more likely to be useful here, and attracted by the possibility of basic coaching qualifications. Another thing I've seen (though I'm not involved myself) in one GAA club is that current players also help out with mentoring/coaching of the very small kids. Does that happen in athletics? Why not, if it doesn't?

On the backslapping verses encouragement thing, it's probably not worth arguing over too much, but I haven't seen much if any of it here. Is it just Facebook? Is it sites like Strava posting people's runs automatically? whatever it is, I can't understand why people get upset about it.

sconhome

Interesting topic.

Yesterday I posted a poll on Facebook asking for feedback on forming a social running group in Oranmore. There are plenty of options for people around this area to join a proper running club but the overwhelming response (so far) has been in support of a casual group that meets up for a social run. There is a huge group of people in this country at the moment who are using running as a way to get off the couch and move and it is this that should be applauded not their 60min 5k or whatever.

It is the effort being made that counts.

As a country that has a generation of inactivity it is great to see the swing around in the other direction. As one point was made above and ties in with listening to Phil Maffetone recently, the record breakers or 1:59 marathons are not going to come from the current batch of runners, that ability will come from the next generation who have grown up with the knowledge of the possibility and the belief that it will happen.

MrWalsh

Chivito550 wrote: »

If one just wants to treat running as exercise that's fine, just don't go advertising your times around, and looking for pats on the back. People who engage in walking, trekking and whatever other form of non competitive exercise don't do this so why should those who run for fitness only do it?

Why not? Why does it offend you that what represents an achievement for some people might be lower than your standard - so what?

And my Facebook feed is littered with various people treks, walks etc, particularly now with the good weather coming in - why would running be any different?

Sacksian

plodder wrote: »

I've heard it said that running is a selfish sport. It's not team oriented obviously and unlike GAA (say) when people reach a certain age, they just keep going, training and competing, which is great at one level, but I guess it means there are less people who get into coaching and administration. But, I would have thought that running boomers (particularly the older ones) would be more likely to be useful here, and attracted by the possibility of basic coaching qualifications. Another thing I've seen (though I'm not involved myself) in one GAA club is that current players also help out with mentoring/coaching of the very small kids. Does that happen in athletics? Why not, if it doesn't?.

Actually, there was a very provocative thread on here many years ago about Masters running, that hinted at the very same thing, called "Masters Killing Athletics".

I think it's a non-argument, to be honest. Most of the people taking coaching courses in our club (and others) are masters. If anything, it would be great to see more current senior athletes involved in coaching as I think they'd be more "relatable" for the juveniles!

baza1976

MrWalsh wrote: »

Why do you want to make that happen? Some people just like to go out and have a run by themselves and not compete. Im one of them.

I think this post ^^^ should close the thread. I am one of these people. I would say the majority of people are like this. I also think the more running, even if they don't run in an "elite" fashion, the better.

MrMacPhisto

Each to their own. Life is too short to care. Enjoy yourself. I think we all run for fun, if not then why bother.

ultrapercy

Everyone has a right to exercise how they please. They also have a right to use social media how they please so long as it's legal and moral. This means that lots of people run for fitness in a non competitive way, Athletic clubs have catered for this to an extent with fit for life programmes etc and that's a good thing. The problem as I see it is this non competitive attitude is beginning to take hold in certain clubs with people who run multiple slow marathons (for instance) being lauded as hero's while competitive runners who are often achieving on national and international stage are ignored. It's a hard attitude to pin down and quantify but it certainly exists, it's a sort of passive aggression toward competitive athletes of all levels an anti elite. Elite is a contentious word to use but in this instance it seems to take on a meaning of faster than me.