Cobalt oral dose vs bolus/bullet

Connemara Farmer

A bit of a quandry here, I have been finding bolus' on the ground on the farm for a fair while now and have been seeing signs in the flock of "pine" in some individual ewes. How many individual ewes per year are losing them, not a clue.

I do like the idea of the bolus, but how many regurgitated bolus' am I not finding, are not inside ewes, are not doing their job, and are leaving my ewes and their lambs worse off as a result.

I am thinking of changing to an oral dose, wondering peoples thoughts about this. How often would the flock need to be dosed, how long would a dose last an individual ewe?

ganmo

Cheapest option, buy cobalt sulphate and dissolve in water. We have 2 milk cartons here one pure cobalt sulphate, the other copper and cobalt and alternate between them during the year

I've always been told it lasts in the system for 3 days (never seen and tests to this effect though) and advised to dose every 2 weeks

Connemara Farmer

Every two weeks, OK, that's not going to happen :pac:

Green farmer

ganmo wrote: »

Cheapest option, buy cobalt sulphate and dissolve in water. We have 2 milk cartons here one pure cobalt sulphate, the other copper and cobalt and alternate between them during the year

I've always been told it lasts in the system for 3 days (never seen and tests to this effect though) and advised to dose every 2 weeks

I've been buying the cobalt and vitamin b6 drenches. I thing €20 a litre or something like that. Would the cobalt sulphate be more or less the same thing, and where would one source it ? Is it readily available. I remember hearing before it works out way cheaper to buy the raw materials alright but know very little about it. Also with the drench you'd give 5ml to each sheep. How would the home made up version compare to that.

ganmo

Green farmer wrote: »

I've been buying the cobalt and vitamin b6 drenches. I thing €20 a litre or something like that. Would the cobalt sulphate be more or less the same thing, and where would one source it ? Is it readily available. I remember hearing before it works out way cheaper to buy the raw materials alright but know very little about it. Also with the drench you'd give 5ml to each sheep. How would the home made up version compare to that.

We got it years ago in quinns naas branch...think it was on the same shelf as bluestone & zinc. works out closer to 2 quid than 20 for 2L(dose @ 10ml)
Think some of them doses use different sources of cobalt but ya same result.

From memory the mixture was 4ounces to 2l, simply weigh, put into milk carton and fill with warm water. I'll double check the 4 oz

Username John

Green farmer wrote: »

I've been buying the cobalt and vitamin b6 drenches. I thing €20 a litre or something like that. Would the cobalt sulphate be more or less the same thing, and where would one source it ? Is it readily available. I remember hearing before it works out way cheaper to buy the raw materials alright but know very little about it. Also with the drench you'd give 5ml to each sheep. How would the home made up version compare to that.

https://www.agridirect.ie/p/colbalt_sulphate

Green farmer

Username John wrote: »

https://www.agridirect.ie/p/colbalt_sulphate

Had a look at that. Maths not great but calculate, 1 box of that mixed up does 1,600 ewes at 30ml a dose. ?

Does the premade drenches in shops do anything extra that that stuff wouldn't ? Seems like good value.

ganmo

Green farmer wrote: »

Had a look at that. Maths not great but calculate, 1 box of that mixed up does 1,600 ewes at 30ml a dose. ?

Does the premade drenches in shops do anything extra that that stuff wouldn't ? Seems like good value.

Yup less than 2c a dose

Some have b vitamins (cobalt is used to make b12 in the gut) and some other trace elements. I was given one as a sample a while ago and the ingredients were syrup and flavours

Username John

Green farmer wrote: »

Had a look at that. Maths not great but calculate, 1 box of that mixed up does 1,600 ewes at 30ml a dose. ?

Does the premade drenches in shops do anything extra that that stuff wouldn't ? Seems like good value.

ganmo wrote: »

Yup less than 2c a dose

Some have b vitamins (cobalt is used to make b12 in the gut) and some other trace elements. I was given one as a sample a while ago and the ingredients were syrup and flavours

I was told before that B12 in a cobalt drench is not much use, b12 needs to be injected for it to be used (it is created in the gut, and cobalt is used, but I don't think it can be absorbed)

http://www.teagasc.ie/newsletters/farmingtips/2009/sheep-20090623.asp

Green farmer

I know the sheep need cobalt, but the other trace elements etc, would the sheep not get a lot of these anyway when out foraging ?

ganmo

i thought the b12 doesn't survive to where it get absorbed but same result, no need for dosing with b12. spend the difference on finding out the mineral status of your grass is

MayoAreMagic

Id agree on the boluses, they are a bit of a fad. All the guys I know giving them, are giving cobalt doses on top of it just in case - a complete waste of time and money in other words. I've never seen any difference in using them either. They are expensive too, and only last 6 weeks anyway. You could buy cobalt, make it up and dose them twice in that period and do it at a massive saving - with no possibility of any spitting them up or the bolus getting coated in the rumen. I bought some a while back, but when they are gone, I wont be buying any more. Also, the ones that are supposed to last a year are ridiculously big, forcing that down their necks cant be good for them.

Also, yes it is best practice every two weeks, but every three weeks is still acceptable.

Connemara Farmer

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Id agree on the boluses, they are a bit of a fad. All the guys I know giving them, are giving cobalt doses on top of it just in case - a complete waste of time and money in other words. I've never seen any difference in using them either. They are expensive too, and only last 6 weeks anyway. You could buy cobalt, make it up and dose them twice in that period and do it at a massive saving - with no possibility of any spitting them up or the bolus getting coated in the rumen. I bought some a while back, but when they are gone, I wont be buying any more. Also, the ones that are supposed to last a year are ridiculously big, forcing that down their necks cant be good for them.

Also, yes it is best practice every two weeks, but every three weeks is still acceptable.

I was using the Animax ones, which last 6 months. I may give the Mayo Healthcare Cobalt Master ones a go, meant to last one year. The six week ones you're referring to are the small pink ones I reckon? I only use them for lambs. I don't fancy gathering the hills every fortnight or three weeks.

MayoAreMagic

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

I was using the Animax ones, which last 6 months. I may give the Mayo Healthcare Cobalt Master ones a go, meant to last one year. The six week ones you're referring to are the small pink ones I reckon? I only use them for lambs. I don't fancy gathering the hills every fortnight or three weeks.

The 6 week ones are the Mayo Healthcare Cobalt 12 Guard. Those Cobalt Master ones are an awful size for the ewe to swallow, and 12 months is a long time without cobalt, if she coughs it up or it gets coated in their rumen. I'd say, like myself, you would end up treating them again Con for piece of mind, which defeats the purpose really.

The route I have gone is to just buy cobalt and make it up. Then we have small pens set up at the gate of each field. As we move them out of the field we hold them for 20 minutes and give a quick cobalt dose to all ram lambs and twins. That is done every 3-4 weeks. Because the pen is at the gate, the sheep run in easily, thinking they are moving to fresh grass. I went the bullet route before and I can honestly say, this is a better system. The more I see of cobalt bullets, the less I think they are worth it. They might be ok for ones going off to the hill for a few months, but that is about it.

Username John

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

The 6 week ones are the Mayo Healthcare Cobalt 12 Guard. Those Cobalt Master ones are an awful size for the ewe to swallow, and 12 months is a long time without cobalt, if she coughs it up or it gets coated in their rumen. I'd say, like myself, you would end up treating them again Con for piece of mind, which defeats the purpose really.

The route I have gone is to just buy cobalt and make it up. Then we have small pens set up at the gate of each field. As we move them out of the field we hold them for 20 minutes and give a quick cobalt dose to all ram lambs and twins. That is done every 3-4 weeks. Because the pen is at the gate, the sheep run in easily, thinking they are moving to fresh grass. I went the bullet route before and I can honestly say, this is a better system. The more I see of cobalt bullets, the less I think they are worth it. They might be ok for ones going off to the hill for a few months, but that is about it.

Ironically - I am going the opposite route

We used to dose em every 2 - 3 weeks, and tis a bit of faff. I found that I was putting it off, and the 2 - 3 weeks could turn into 5 - 6 weeks very fast.

The ewes got these before they went to ram, and got another after lambing before they went out.

Was debating getting the Mayo healthcare ones for the lambs this year, to see how they do on em. I accept that the cobalt dose is cheaper, and might be better if it was given every 2 weeks.
But I am trying to reduce the time spent on the sheep as much as I can...

We'll see how it goes I guess...

Connemara Farmer

Username John wrote: »

The ewes got these before they went to ram, and got another after lambing before they went out.

Those are the ones I'm finding on the ground.

Username John

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Those are the ones I'm finding on the ground.

Really?

I haven't seen any on the ground here - but that could be explained as maybe I am just not as observant as you...

Connemara Farmer

Username John wrote: »

Really?

I haven't seen any on the ground here - but that could be explained as maybe I am just not as observant as you...

Yup, grass probably shorter here though, sometimes find them on bits of exposed rock also.

Username John

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Yup, grass probably shorter here though, sometimes find them on bits of exposed rock also.

I don't doubt you - but I'm kinda happy enough with em (Acourse, I was a lot happier with em about 30 mins ago, but still)

I'll prob stick with em for now, as I think the ewes seem in good enough nick with em. Just visibility ok - I havent gotten em blood tested now or anything...

rangler1

Username John wrote: »

I don't doubt you - but I'm kinda happy enough with em (Acourse, I was a lot happier with em about 30 mins ago, but still)

I'll prob stick with em for now, as I think the ewes seem in good enough nick with em. Just visibility ok - I havent gotten em blood tested now or anything...

They're supposed to supply cobalt to the lambs as well through the milk for as long as the ewes have milk

DMAXMAN

we get mineral buckets made up and the manufacturer puts in a lot of extra cobalt and b vitamins. we used to need to dose lambs every week when weaned onto aftergrass but now we dose only once at weaning and none afterwards

Green farmer

Thanks for the info on the cobalt sulphate guys, ordered it today, so should have it next week .

Green farmer

Green farmer wrote: »

Thanks for the info on the cobalt sulphate guys, ordered it today, so should have it next week .

The coop let me down with the cobalt sulphate. It's gone off their order list so they cannt get it. I then did some more research into it and turns out that there's a possible link between cobalt sulphate and cancer with inhaling the dust. So if anyone's mixing it out there be careful and wear a mask. I'll just order a cheap premixed dose.

eorna

Have used both.. Drench cheaper but a lot more labour that tends to be left till 'next time they are in'.. Use mayo bullets now..do them once and most of them b done at that.. The stragglers in nov, dec get the drench as it wouldnt b many and would have them in more often...
Too much labour drenching all lambs every 2 weeks in my opinion..