IFA Countryside

Kiltris

Just wondering if any of ye have done a comparison between NARGC and the IFA Countryside? Which is best to be affiliated to?

steyrman

Hi the gunclub I'm in was with nargc for years but changed due to a few bright sparks in the Club we stayed with IFA for 2 seasons and now we're back with nargc while we were with IFA we had no concact what so ever with them . The were to run safely courses we heard nothing the only time we heard from them was when our insurance was up at least with the nargc we get to go to county meetings and a new letter I think IMO were better off with nargc

Kiltris

It's interesting you say that now because they are selling themselves very hard. Did ye receive any encouragemnet from them to release birds etc? Thye have on their web page that they will organise feed for gunclubs to put out in hoppers etc.

steyrman

Hi the first year the gave us a fleece each for joining told us about some wheat that had water damage and had to be disposed of we could get some it was up in Meath grain store caught fire but we did not bother to far to drive for nothing about birds but leaflets promoting everything there insurance providers and are there to make money and its a numbers game with them tbh when you stack the policies together nargc is better cover I still prefer nargc because there interested in shooting let it be good bad or indifferent IFA are insurance company or brokers

Kiltris

According to them they will subsidise the buying of poults, planting of game crops, being involved in the organisation of lands to plant for natural habitat etc. Their insurance policy has the same and even more cover than the NARGC compensation fund. So, it really comes down to how involved they will be in the club and helping it to achieve it's goals. But your saying ye didn't get much help from them, would ye have been fairly active in trying to get them on board with different projects?

steyrman

Not going to drag this out the did suit us the did not try and help us we looked for certain things but the never got back to us the person that came to the gunclub meeting and spoke very well but bottom line he was a sales man we won't be entertaining them again

Kiltris

Thanks for that bit of information. It helps to hear others experiences before diving into anything.

Grizzly 45

Midlands had them for a year or so and dumped them.They were apprently utterly useless with comprehending anything regarding rifle target shooting or pistol shooting and put up barriers about guest shooters from other clubs on the range .Thats the only dealings ive ever had with them via club insurance.

onetimecypher

See page 73 and 74 of latest ISD to see how they sold out all shooters

Kiltris

onetimecypher wrote: »

See page 73 and 74 of latest ISD to see how they sold out all shooters

Is that the April edition?! How did they "sellout" as you put it?

Spider025

Nrgc has no money, failed to pay 39 claims last year, IFA is under written by fbd insurance, that's enough for me! All farmers have IFA insurance

Spider025

Nrgc has no money, failed to pay 39 claims last year, IFA is under written by fbd insurance, that's enough for me! All farmers have IFA insurance

steyrman

Spider025 wrote: »

Nrgc has no money, failed to pay 39 claims last year, IFA is under written by fbd insurance, that's enough for me! All farmers have IFA insurance

Hi the last bit of your post is not true not all farmers have IFA insurance in fact if up you ask most farmers the would run anyone from IFA as the door the got screwed with premiums fact IFA are not the farmers and shooters best insurance options

Kiltris

steyrman wrote: »

Hi the last bit of your post is not true not all farmers have IFA insurance in fact if up you ask most farmers the would run anyone from IFA as the door the got screwed with premiums fact IFA are not the farmers and shooters best insurance options

But as a representative body, surely the IFA are better to be with, representing both hunter and farmer?! Agreed not every farmer is an "IFA man" but a lot of them are? Also, I do agree that not all farmers are with FBD, but both IFA & FBD are too very recognizable names.

Grizzly 45

I'd seriously question that IFA countryside repersent anything in the shooting community unless you are a knickerbocker and tweed wearing SXS man .Go read the following likn from the IFA website

http://www.ifacountryside.ie/firearms-submission.html then go and compare it to the debate here of Gardai proposals to ban firearms from March 3to 6th and then go and get a copy of the ISD from last month and read their submission there and come back and tell us whats missing from the IFA countryside submission web page,and then consider your statements validity.

That submission was the equivilent of us commenting here on hedage payments and REPS over payments and not knowing or having anything to do with either.

Cass

onetimecypher wrote: »

See page 73 and 74 of latest ISD to see how they sold out all shooters

So did the NARGC but they have carte blanche in the ISD so can say what they like without rebuttal.

Hence the reason i wouldn't buy that rag.

grassroot1

Spider025 wrote: »

Nrgc has no money, failed to pay 39 claims last year, IFA is under written by fbd insurance, that's enough for me! All farmers have IFA insurance

Please tell us where you got this information its very interesting

grassroot1

Cass wrote: »

So did the NARGC but they have carte blanche in the ISD so can say what they like without rebuttal.

Hence the reason i wouldn't buy that rag.

Again are you sure that the email sent by the spokesman for the collation was discussed by the NARGC.
Before you say it I am not insulting your intelligence or am I in agreement with what has been done.

Sparks

grassroot1 wrote: »

Again are you sure that the email sent by the spokesman for the collation was discussed by the NARGC.
Before you say it I am not insulting your intelligence or am I in agreement with what has been done.

Are you saying that Des Crofton would send that email, signing off as both a representative of the NARGC and the Coalition, without discussing it with the NARGC?

I mean, that's kindof a serious thing. If I ever did something like that at work I wouldn't be at work for very long. That's why nobody's suggested that he did that (and why I don't believe he did). The email even goes to pains to state that consultation happened and a unanimous consensus was achieved.

Kiltris

Cass wrote: »

So did the NARGC but they have carte blanche in the ISD so can say what they like without rebuttal.

Hence the reason i wouldn't buy that rag.

What is your honest opinion on both parties or does it really matter, I suppose at the end of the day it's like insuring your car, you need to be covered for x, y and z but what your after is the disc for the window.

Cass

grassroot1 wrote: »

Again are you sure that the email sent by the spokesman for the collation was discussed by the NARGC.
Before you say it I am not insulting your intelligence or am I in agreement with what has been done.

I said this in the main thread on the matter, and frankly don't want this thread turning into a "mini main thread" via me or anyone else, but he signed off on the letter as:

Des Crofton

Director for the NARGC and Spokesperson for the Sports Coalition.

Doing something like that is a serious matter if he done it off his own back and regardless of what i think about him, the NARGC, etc. i know he is not a stupid man and would never compromise himself or his group by acting in a stupid manner. Which signing it without consultation would be.

Plus he said he did (consult that is). So i have to take that at face value.

Kiltris wrote: »

What is your honest opinion on both parties or does it really matter, I suppose at the end of the day it's like insuring your car, you need to be covered for x, y and z but what your after is the disc for the window.

As i said on the "Boycott NARGC" thread it's not my intention nor objective to tell people what insurance is best for them. I'm not an agent for either party. Plus both have acted in reckless manner with their own set of proposals and open letters with dangerous and shortsighted proposals, plus incorrect facts. So frankly i'd not be a fan of either.

That being said you should not be without insurance. For club insurance you need to seek out the best party to cover the club, and that provides the best support for that club.

For individual cover the NARGC is out as they don't do individual cover. So now you have to narrow down which of the rest will provide you with the best cover.

The proposals are a serious issue, and the potential loss of firearms as a result of what others are saying on our behalf is not something to be ignored. However for the majority of shooters this issue is either unknown, not too important, or not important to them. They will only want to continue with their shooting so it's up to them which one they go for.

Backbarrel

Spider025 wrote: »

Nrgc has no money, failed to pay 39 claims last year, IFA is under written by fbd insurance, that's enough for me! All farmers have IFA insurance

I am sorry to say this but you are talking through your hat on this one.

If 39 claims weren't paid then there is a good reason for them not being paid. There is a compensation fund held by the NARGC in excess of €6 million. The risk taken on each year is reinsured to make sure there is adequate cover.

Say what you like about them but this end of the sport is run right in that I have yet to see a genuine claim not covered.

Backbarrel

Sparks wrote: »

Are you saying that Des Crofton would send that email, signing off as both a representative of the NARGC and the Coalition, without discussing it with the NARGC?

I mean, that's kind of a serious thing. If I ever did something like that at work I wouldn't be at work for very long. That's why nobody's suggested that he did that (and why I don't believe he did). The email even goes to pains to state that consultation happened and a unanimous consensus was achieved.

Would Des Crofton ever do anything without checking with the NARGC?

The NARGC is run by Des Crofton together with a National Executive on behalf of a Governing body made up of 28 regional game councils.

In theory Mr Crofton carries out the policies of the Association as expressed by the Chairman and the National Executive.

However he essentially runs the association as he see fit and gets the National Executive to rubber stamp a lot of his decisions.

I would be fairly certain the National Executive had no knowledge of that letter or the goings on within the Coalition. If they need to know something he will tell them.
They don't even know if he is in the country half the time...

The whole situation needs taking in hand. The last Chairman tried and he lasted how long?

wirehairmax

I'm not going to comment on anything other than my experience with the NARGC compensation fund and leave all the other politics and mess in other threads aside.
I have to say that my only dealings with the NARGC and in particular Chris Gavican has been 100% positive. I had a dog which ran out in front of a jeep and caused over € 2k damage and it was handled professionally and with great courtesy by Chris. Once the paperwork had been processed and a few phone conversations with Chris, the damage was settled and with no hassle whatsoever. Couldn't ask for better service really and not what you get from an insurance company.
You have to remember that if you are paying into the fund you are actually a member of the fund and not paying insurance as such.
And this is from somebody who does not agree with the way recent events have been handled and many other things which have taken place in the NARGC in recent years and am definitely not a fan of its National Director so you can take this as an unbiased opinion. You can all make up your own mind after that.

Kiltris

Are NARGC members entitled to ask for a copy or proof of what "funds" are there?

minktrapper

Spider025 wrote: »

Nrgc has no money, failed to pay 39 claims last year, IFA is under written by fbd insurance, that's enough for me! All farmers have IFA insurance

If you are a member of IFA does the membership fee include insurance cover for clay pidgeon shooting and hunting.

Honda500

Kiltris wrote: »

Just wondering if any of ye have done a comparison between NARGC and the IFA Countryside? Which is best to be affiliated to?

Both are equal in my opinion

Backbarrel

Our club looked at this. Here is what each insurer offer:

Organisation level of cover and Area covered.

NARGC - €10.0m All EU countries
CAI - €12.0m Ireland only
IFA - € 2.6m Rep of Ireland only

CAI is a "policy of last resort" in that If your gun is stolen from your house/car and they can get the house or car insurance policy to cough up they will use that. Their policy covers Irish jurisdiction only.

The IFA off increased cover for an extra €10/person per annum, up to an additional €6.5m cover.

So basically, as well as being a fairly comprehensive deal, if you want to shoot abroad in the EU the nargc is the one to have.

Also for the Personal accident side of things:

Nargc
Death €100K
Loss of Limb/Eye €100K
Disability €350/wk
Perm. Disability €100K
Age limits None
Medical fees €2K

IFA
Death €30K
Loss of Limb/Eye €15K
Disability €600/wk
Perm. Disability €25K
Age limits 18 to 74
Medical fees Nil

CAI
Death €17K
Loss of Limb/Eye €33K
Disability Nil
Perm. Disability €33K
Age limits Under 79
Medical fees €5K






The NARGC disability covers you for for 52 wks/GP Cert
The IFA only covers you while in hospital. Think about that. You could be dicharged after 48 hours but unable to work for 5 weeks.

Taken as a whole, the NARGC is the superior cover for our club.

We have 14 and 15 year olds following their fathers out shooting- covered.
We have some lads going goose shooting in Scotland- covered.
Hope this helps..

Grizzly 45

Your club missed Countryside Sports Ireland.

Backbarrel

Sorry Grizzly,

We requested the details of their policy but we didn't have them before our AGM so if I get them in the meant time I will put them up too..

Kiltris

Backbarrel wrote: »

Our club looked at this. Here is what each insurer offer:

Organisation level of cover and Area covered.

NARGC - €10.0m All EU countries
CAI - €12.0m Ireland only
IFA - € 2.6m Rep of Ireland only

CAI is a "policy of last resort" in that If your gun is stolen from your house/car and they can get the house or car insurance policy to cough up they will use that. Their policy covers Irish jurisdiction only.

The IFA off increased cover for an extra €10/person per annum, up to an additional €6.5m cover.

So basically, as well as being a fairly comprehensive deal, if you want to shoot abroad in the EU the nargc is the one to have.

Also for the Personal accident side of things:

Nargc
Death €100K
Loss of Limb/Eye €100K
Disability €350/wk
Perm. Disability €100K
Age limits None
Medical fees €2K

IFA
Death €30K
Loss of Limb/Eye €15K
Disability €600/wk
Perm. Disability €25K
Age limits 18 to 74
Medical fees Nil

CAI
Death €17K
Loss of Limb/Eye €33K
Disability Nil
Perm. Disability €33K
Age limits Under 79
Medical fees €5K






The NARGC disability covers you for for 52 wks/GP Cert
The IFA only covers you while in hospital. Think about that. You could be dicharged after 48 hours but unable to work for 5 weeks.

Taken as a whole, the NARGC is the superior cover for our club.

We have 14 and 15 year olds following their fathers out shooting- covered.
We have some lads going goose shooting in Scotland- covered.
Hope this helps..

But have the NARGC that kinda money?!

Cass

Also be aware that some coverage does not extend to other activities. When we ran comps on here were we told that NARGC cover did not extend to such activities. It's the reason we had to put warning notices at the top of any/all comps to make sure your cover does infact cover you for what you want to do.

grassroot1

Competitive snipe shooting/game shooting is not covered by NARGC cover with the exception of 1st of November longest /heaviest bird competitions.
I don't know if it is covered by others.

Backbarrel

Kiltris wrote: »

But have the NARGC that kinda money?!

Yes they do. I asked my county delegate about this. The accounts for 31 July 2014 show €8.1 million in investments not counting Fixed assets or Debtors.
The Shareholders funds equals €7.5million.

They are audited by Farrell Grant Sparks. This is not a mickey mouse operation.

Also you said that there were 39 claims not settled.

I am told that there are 5 claims unsettled, all arising in 2015. In other words, if there is a valid claim it is sorted.

Look, there are parts of the NARGC hierarchy that are difficult to stomach but in terms of cover it does the job for its members and it is well run.

Kiltris

Backbarrel wrote: »

Also you said that there were 39 claims not settled.

I didn't write that, it was another member of boards.

The NARGC does seem to be coming out on top alright.

Grizzly 45

Backbarrel wrote: »

Yes they do. I asked my county delegate about this. The accounts for 31 July 2014 show €8.1 million in investments not counting Fixed assets or Debtors.
The Shareholders funds equals €7.5million.

They are audited by Farrell Grant Sparks. This is not a mickey mouse operation.

.

Not being a Gordon Gecko when it comes to finance but without the figures of the credit side [IE money going out and owed] this is meaningless.Investments can rise and fall ..You need to see the red figures as well to be able to make a call on how well or badly things are going.

Backbarrel

Hi Grizzly,
I asked the same thing. You are right but the Shareholders funds 7.5M is the assets minus the creditors.

Fixed assets 43K
Investments 8,173K
Current assets 895K

Current Liabilities 1,600K
Therefore Assets-liabilites - 7,511K

Also the investments are held in capital guaranteed funds. They are prohibited by the constitution of the association from putting the money into anything else. That's why they weren't wiped out by the banking fiasco..

Like I said before, there might be a lot of stuff we are unhappy with in the NARGC but this aspect seems to be run okay.