Complicated boundaries in new house

berrecka

Hi all,

We recently bought a house, with some complicated boundaries.

Part of one side wall is (was) the wall of a now derelict commercial building. This wall was knocked (by a property developer who owns this site, and the site to the rear), and we are left with no side boundary - very unsafe.

There is also no back boundary. There had been a wall and a fence at some stage in the past, but the overgrowth of the rear derelict site has pushed these down.

We have tried to make contact with the developer (he had planning permission to build on this site, which expired about a month ago), but he is ignoring all registered mail, voicemails and emails.

We don't really know what to do next. He has knocked a wall, but it may be more expensive to pursue him legally, than it would be to just build a new wall ourselves.

The folio we purchased includes our (rectangular) back garden, as well as a 10*2.5m strip which runs along the rear of our neighbours garden (3 of 3 terraced houses, ours is the 3rd). But walls have been built, along this strip, extending the boundary walls between the 3 properties into this strip (on our folio, and not included on our neighbours').

The middle neighbour has her shed within the strip also. She has been in that house since 1989 (well beyond the 12 years necessary for her to make a claim of adverse possession, if she so wished).

The end house was bought in 2011. Before that, it was owned by the people from whom we bought our house a few months ago. Before these sales, these people had owned these houses (either end of a terrace of three) since the 1960s.

We got a good(ish) deal on the house, and part of it was that the vendor did not want to have to sort out these issues before the sale.

We have asked our solicitor what to do, and she is advising that we try to discuss it with the neighbours first. But I would like to know where legally we stand before we go in, guns blazing, asking them to get out of our property, move their sheds, and their walls! I am thinking of raising it with them in terms of occupiers liability - in that if there was an accident on this land, it is ours on paper, and so we need to sort it with them.

We have an idea of what we would like to do with this land, and so would like to reclaim it if at all possible.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated

the_syco

Sounds like the seller sold you a lemon regarding the laneway at the back of everyones house.

As for the back wall, rather than rebuild a shared wall, you may be best constructing a new wall on your land?

seamus

berrecka wrote: »

We don't really know what to do next. He has knocked a wall, but it may be more expensive to pursue him legally, than it would be to just build a new wall ourselves.

A standard cinder block is 20cm wide. I think you will save yourself a whole pile of hassle if you just build a new wall on your side rather than trying to claw back that extra 10cm and have the wall built on the boundary line.

We have asked our solicitor what to do, and she is advising that we try to discuss it with the neighbours first. But I would like to know where legally we stand before we go in, guns blazing, asking them to get out of our property, move their sheds, and their walls!

So this is what your solicitor is for, this is why they took a big fee from the property purchase.

I don't think there's any way you can take back "your" part of the garden without causing ill-feeling. People are possessive about land, and become doubly aggressive if they're told that someone else owns their land and is taking it away. I think regardless of what you do, they will consult their own solicitor.

What you need to do here is to find out from your solicitor what legal avenues they can explore and how you could defend those avenues, or come up with a more cost effective solution.

Solicitors and courts are expensive, so if you can come up with a way to reasonably accommodate them, you might avoid a costly battle and pissed off neighbours. For example, if possible, you could rebuild the walls so the shed is part of their garden and not yours.
Or, if the shed is in an odd place, draw up a wayleave agreement which permits them exclusive use of the shed and access to it via a gate from your garden into theirs.

Or, finally, if you really want to avoid pissed off neighbours, let them have that land provided that they will pay the legal costs of redrawing/reregistering. If your solicitor tells you there's a good chance that they would win an adverse possession case, then this would definitely be the best option.

berrecka

seamus wrote: »

A standard cinder block is 20cm wide. I think you will save yourself a whole pile of hassle if you just build a new wall on your side rather than trying to claw back that extra 10cm and have the wall built on the boundary line.

I agree, and we are not particularly concerned about losing a little bit of our land, but rather the costs involved in laying foundations and erecting a new wall.
I also agree with what you said about keeping it civil and neighourly. I suppose I am just hoping to explore how they might react, so that we are prepared for it, and where we stand - like, would the previous owners owning the 2 end terraces offer much by way of arguing that the middle house has had unencumbered access for +12 years.

the_syco wrote: »

Sounds like the seller sold you a lemon regarding the laneway at the back of everyones house.
QUOTE]

I'm not sure what you mean here - the strip is definitely on our folio; and not on either of the neighbours folios.

seamus

berrecka wrote: »

the_syco wrote: »

Sounds like the seller sold you a lemon regarding the laneway at the back of everyones house.

I'm not sure what you mean here - the strip is definitely on our folio; and not on either of the neighbours folios.

I guess the point is that if this issue was going to be an easy one to fix, the original owner would have fixed it before selling.

You admit you got it cheaper because this issue existed, which would lead me to believe that the middle property won't relinquish it easily and the vendor knew this.

I'm not sure what relevance the two end houses have in this scenario - my understanding is that the middle property has erected walls which gives them exclusive and uncontested access to the piece of land in question. In my armchair opinion that heavily weighs it in their favour.

Which is why, again in my armchair opinion, your interests might be better served in handing over this 160th of an acre to your next door neighbour and having them pay the fees to do so. You can lead them to believe this will improve the value of their property.

This removes any boundary "issues" (thereby increasing the value of your property), while giving up a piece of land that does nothing except add a useless "L" shape to the end of your garden.

arthur daly

There is little you can do about the walls,you bought the house like that without boundries so it's a though one usually both landowners are responsible but chasing a broke builder could be a real nightmare,fence it off yourself
Regarding the neighbors using your garden as their own this should have been checked pre purchase as it leaves a whole battle that will cost a fortune.
They can claim adverse posession on that piece they are using.
Contact a solicitor about it but be prepared for along xcostly fight

the_syco

berrecka wrote: »

the_syco wrote: »

Sounds like the seller sold you a lemon regarding the laneway at the back of everyones house.

I'm not sure what you mean here - the strip is definitely on our folio; and not on either of the neighbours folios.

Although in your folio, I'm surprised that the solicitor didn't think to negotiate a lower price as from my understanding you only have access to one third of the lane-way, as middle neighbour has planted a shed on it, and I'm unsure if you have access to the other third (on the far side of the shed).

As said, perhaps show middle neighbour that you own the land, but give them the chance of buying the land. And put a small wooden garden shed in the far plot if you have access to it, to show that it's your land. It may prevent a land grab by the other neighbour when you're talking to the middle neighbour?

Personally speaking, I'd throw a hole into my back wall and landscape some of the garden to show adverse possession if I could gain a bit of land at the back of my garden Folk can be odd when it comes to land!

=-=

The added benefit of building your own wall is that you can ensure it's decently built, and not the cheapest thing that may blow over.

Carawaystick

Are fallen masonry like tree branches, where you can throw them back over to the other landowner for disposal?

MarkAnthony

OP do you mind me asking if you have a mortgage, if so who with (if I may ask) and did they have an issue with the boundaries and qualified title or did you not tell them?


Only asking as I have a boundary issue and have told the bank (KBC).

berrecka

MarkAnthony wrote:

OP do you mind me asking if you have a mortgage, if so who with (if I may ask) and did they have an issue with the boundaries and qualified title or did you not tell them?

Nope, no mortgage on it.