Should the real celebration not be in 2022?

DebDynamite

So just thinking about the Road to the Rising which was on yesterday, and you hear Fine Gael talking about wanting to still be in power for the 100 year anniversary of the 1916 Rising, etc. But does anything think the real celebration should be 2022, 100 years after us gaining independence in 1922?

AnonoBoy

There'll be buns and lemonade in 2022 too I'm sure.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Then we would have to bring up the Civil War and nobody likes that.

For what it's worth, the US and many Latin American countries also celebrate the beginning of their Independence struggle, not the end.

Obviously there will be more ceremonies in 2019, and 2022, and 2037, and 2073, and all of the other dates when people will argue Ireland took its place among the nations.

None of them is the 'real McCoy', they're all just staging posts on a cascade of events that led to our current position, each even with its own unique and important contribution.

Debates about which event is most important is a bit like asking which human organ is more important: the kidney, the lungs, the heart or the liver? All of them. We wouldn't be ourselves without all of them together.

AnonoBoy

To be honest I'm just hoping to hang on until 2088 for the 100 year celebration of the writing of the "Who Put The Ball In The England Net?" song.

Or the real moment we gained our independence as it is known.

SEPT 23 1989

2049

SEPT 23 1989

AnonoBoy wrote: »

To be honest I'm just hoping to hang on until 2088 for the 100 year celebration of the writing of the "Who Put The Ball In The England Net?" song.

Or the real moment we gained our independence as it is known.

probably means more to me than the rest of this carry on

NoCrackHaving

You could also make arguments for 1937 and 1948.

kneemos

There's an excellent case for not having any party political point scoring celebrations at all,on the grounds of bad taste.

whisky_galore

It's a commemoration, not a celebration.
Loads of people got shot, yaay, let's party.

The Backwards Man

2020, 50th anniversary of the historic first Eurovision victory.

gramar

2022 is ages away. We need an excuse to celebrate now.

DebDynamite

whisky_galore wrote: »

It's a commemoration, not a celebration.
Loads of people got shot, yaay, let's party.

You obviously weren't on O'Connell street yesterday... plenty of singing & dancing.

whisky_galore

DebDynamite wrote: »

You obviously weren't on O'Connell street yesterday... plenty of singing & dancing.

Hard to be on O'Connell St when you're over 100 miles away from it.

DebDynamite

whisky_galore wrote: »

Hard to be on O'Connell St when you're over 100 miles away from it.

Um, ok.

AndonHandon

2049 would clearly be the most iconic and appropriate date. The 1916 Rising itself was a resounding failure.

murpho999

AndonHandon wrote: »

2049 would clearly be the most iconic and appropriate date. The 1916 Rising itself was a resounding failure.

That triggered a chain of events that led to independence thereby making it not a failure.

Militarily it was a failure but there's more to it than that and it is hugely significant in Irish history.

paulbok

whisky_galore wrote: »

Hard to be on O'Connell St when you're over 100 miles away from it.

T'was the same story I believe back then as well and the Dubs still haven't shut up about it.:D

/gets coat and runs.

ScumLord

We're commemorating the easter rising. It makes sense to do it on the anniversary of that happening.

seamus

Gas that if the rising happened in modern times, they'd all be branded terrorists and spat on in the streets.

ScumLord

seamus wrote: »

Gas that if the rising happened in modern times, they'd all be branded terrorists and spat on in the streets.

I believe that may well have happened to these guys, a lot of Dubliners supported the English crushing the rebellion.

?Cee?view

ScumLord wrote: »

I believe that may well have happened to these guys, a lot of Dubliners supported the English crushing the rebellion.

Agreed. Most at the time, either rightly or wrongly, considered them traitors. It's only since that they've been rebranded as heroes.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Gas that if the rising happened in modern times, they'd all be branded terrorists and spat on in the streets.

If Mr Hitler had invaded Poland in 2015, you'd have plenty of people spitting piss and vinegar about British aggression, and there'd be threads here exhorting the Brits to leave the Germans alone.

That's why we never judge history by modern norms and standards, but place events in their historical context. As it happens 1916 was an unpopular rising, and the societal-forefathers of the FG shower, fumbling in the greasy tin, were more incensed and indignant than anyone in their opposition to the Rising.

Still, it seems petty and futile to criticise Fg's attempt at commemoration. They know this is an obligation to be over and done with, regardless of their personal views.

harry Bailey esq

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

they're all just staging posts on a cascade of events that led to our current position, each even with its own unique and important contribution.

This.In 1998 there were many commemorations of the 200th anniversary of the united Irishmen rising in 1798.Another one I remember was the 200th anniversary of the French attempt to land in bantry bay which Wolfe Tone also had a hand in.Both ventures proved unsuccessful,but celebrated nonetheless,I was lucky enough to be in bantry for the festivities.1916 is relatively recent in the big scheme of things,and for many set the wheels in motion to put us in the position we are in today.Interesting topic all the same OP,there are not too many threads on this forum that require the use of my brain,but this ones got me thinking.

alchemist33

ScumLord wrote: »

We're commemorating the easter rising. It makes sense to do it on the anniversary of that happening.

And that would be the 24th of April next year, not Easter Monday (March 28th)

AndonHandon

murpho999 wrote: »

That triggered a chain of events that led to independence thereby making it not a failure.

Militarily it was a failure but there's more to it than that and it is hugely significant in Irish history.

Surrendering and having the ringleaders executed is not a success in any shape or form but yes, it was significant. 1949 was a success.

Stinicker

Until there is a United Ireland I think there is nothing hugely worth celebrating. What we should be celebrating is the current decline of Protestant Demographics in Northern Ireland which will deliver a United Ireland in a numbers game. The Irish Civil war was one of the worst things to ever occur here and should not have happened. If it wasn't for the Easter Rising I think Ireland would have become Independent after World War II alongside India and the other colonies.

seamus

alchemist33 wrote: »

And that would be the 24th of April next year, not Easter Monday (March 28th)

"The April Rising" doesn't really have the same ring to it though

AndonHandon wrote: »

Surrendering and having the ringleaders executed is not a success in any shape or form but yes, it was significant. 1949 was a success.

I guess the aim is commemorate the proclamation of the republic as opposed to the actual date that legal independence occurred.
The Americans celebrate July 4th 1776, yet it wasn't until 12th May 1784 that US independence came into existence.

In all such celebrations, be they religious or nationalist, symbolism and sentiment is more important than accuracy.

Red Kev

gramar wrote: »

2022 is ages away. We need an excuse to celebrate now.

25 years of Italia 90 coming up this June.

seamus wrote: »

Gas that if the rising happened in modern times, they'd all be branded terrorists and spat on in the streets.

People opposed the rising in Dublin, it was only after they started to execute the leaders that public opinion turned. There was no national uprising either, that's important to note as well.

Stinicker wrote: »

Until there is a United Ireland I think there is nothing hugely worth celebrating. What we should be celebrating is the current decline of Protestant Demographics in Northern Ireland which will deliver a United Ireland in a numbers game. The Irish Civil war was one of the worst things to ever occur here and should not have happened. If it wasn't for the Easter Rising I think Ireland would have become Independent after World War II alongside India and the other colonies.

A good proportion of Catholic/Nationalists want to remain a part of the UK as well. A good proportion of people in the RoI (including myself) have no interest in a united Ireland. The sooner people try to accept that, and actually work towards a normal relationship between both parts of the island the better.

ScumLord

Red Kev wrote: »

There was no national uprising either, that's important to note as well.

There was a national uprising it just went to pot because of contradicting orders.

myshirt

The Backwards Man wrote: »

2020, 50th anniversary of the historic first Eurovision victory.

Let's hope we've the right president in office for it.

topper75

Stinicker wrote: »

... the current decline of Protestant Demographics in Northern Ireland which will deliver a United Ireland in a numbers game... If it wasn't for the Easter Rising I think Ireland would have become Independent after World War II alongside India and the other colonies.

Are the HSE V NHS numbers factored into the numbers game you write of? Or the fact that the 26 counties are being run off a credit card and can ill afford to try and finance large scale security operations on the north of the island? Don't assume too much.

Not sure how Ireland would have simply become independent with India after WWII. The Ulster Unionists militia element would not have sat grumbling about their fate on a barstool.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I personally don't see 1949 as being worth celebrating, it was a mere formality at that point.