Pedestrian Crossing Query

Moghead

Hi everyone, I live in a town where there are cycle lanes on the side of the roads and on the footpaths. Sometimes on one footpath there can be two cycle lanes, one in each direction. In a few spots in the town a cycle lane can lead onto a pedestrian crossing and then onto a cycle lane on the other side of the road. Should I dismount when I get to these crossings and do I have the same rights as a pedestrian if I don't have to dismount?

galwaycyclist

Moghead wrote: »

Hi everyone, I live in a town where there are cycle lanes on the side of the roads and on the footpaths. Sometimes on one footpath there can be two cycle lanes, one in each direction. In a few spots in the town a cycle lane can lead onto a pedestrian crossing and then onto a cycle lane on the other side of the road. Should I dismount when I get to these crossings and do I have the same rights as a pedestrian if I don't have to dismount?

Do you have a location? Long story short - Irish roads engineers have a tendency to ignore the standard assumptions of traffic law when they "design" anything involving cycle facilities.

Theoretically for you to use the crossing as a cyclist there should be a separate traffic light with bicycle symbols.

Koobcam

Just use the road if it's safe to do so

Moghead

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Do you have a location? Long story short - Irish roads engineers have a tendency to ignore the standard assumptions of traffic law when they "design" anything involving cycle facilities.

Theoretically for you to use the crossing as a cyclist there should be a separate traffic light with bicycle symbols.

Hi I was cycling in Carlow town. It's great that there are plenty of cycle lanes but a motorist informed me over the weekend that I "don't have right of way on a pedestrian crossing" even though the cycle lane lead me onto the zebra crossing.

gzoladz

In situations where priorities, right of way, etc are unclear I apply common sense to decide what to do. It always works.

Moghead

gzoladz wrote: »

In situations where priorities, right of way, etc are unclear I apply common sense to decide what to do. It always works.

Well the driver on the side if the road closest to me stopped to let me cross, I started to cross as the car coming from the other direction was quite a distance away, he had to slow down and then stop to let cross, before informing me that I was in the wrong.

Geniass

The purpose of a pedestrian crossing is just that.

It would be insane to expect a car driver to stop in time to give way to a cyclist coming from a cycle lane and use a pedestrian crossing (even if linked to a cycle lane) as the cyclist could be going a lot faster.

It seems like an insane design to have a pedestrian crossing attached to a cycle lane.

If you are expecting traffic to stop for you I think you'd have to dismount.

Buzwaldo

Thirty five years ago myself and a few others occasionally got a lift from school with one of the other student's grandfather. At a precarious junction on a country road, he would always stop even though he had the right of way. His grandson challenged him one day and said there was no need to stop as he had the right of way.
'What good is that when I'm on the flat of my back in hospital' was his reply.

Edit-- Jaysis, reading that now makes me sound like an old fogey, but it stuck in my mind, and seemed appropriate here.

iwillhtfu

Are these the pedestrian crossings at the roundabouts near the esso garage on the road to the motorway?

They're an accident waiting to happen. No warning lights or signs for motorists. Technically I don't even think they qualify as pedestrian crossings.

I think they were a job half done and are an absolute hazard to pedestrians/cyclists/motorists.

CramCycle

Moghead wrote: »

Well the driver on the side if the road closest to me stopped to let me cross, I started to cross as the car coming from the other direction was quite a distance away, he had to slow down and then stop to let cross, before informing me that I was in the wrong.

Geniass wrote: »

It would be insane to expect a car driver to stop in time to give way to a cyclist coming from a cycle lane and use a pedestrian crossing (even if linked to a cycle lane) as the cyclist could be going a lot faster.
If you are expecting traffic to stop for you I think you'd have to dismount.

In no way condoning the use of the pedestrian crossing, but it sounds more like a design flaw than anything else.

That said, I would expect a motorist to stop coming upto a zebra crossing, they certainly should be slowing to expect to if there is anyone in the vicinity. I constantly see motorists drive through zebra crossings while peds are waiting to cross or when they have started to cross on the other side. If there is anyone there and they are going to or started to cross, you should stop.

I seen a car rear ended in UCD because the following car did not expect him to stop at the Zebra crossing that had three people waiting at it.

Geniass

CramCycle wrote: »

That said, I would expect a motorist to stop coming upto a zebra crossing, they certainly should be slowing to expect to if there is anyone in the vicinity.

"You do not have the right-of-way over other traffic until you actually step onto the crossing. Never step onto the crossing if this would cause a driver to brake or swerve suddenly."

Slow down yes, stop no. And only for pedestrians, not for a cyclist thinking he has the right to cycle out in front of traffic.

Now, I'd hate to be the driver that hit a cyclist that cycled across a zebra crossing.

CramCycle

Geniass wrote: »

"You do not have the right-of-way over other traffic until you actually step onto the crossing. Never step onto the crossing if this would cause a driver to brake or swerve suddenly."

If there is ever a pedestrian near a zebra crossing you shouldn't be driving so fast that you would have to swerve IMO, hell if your coming to a zebra crossing, a motorist shouldn't be going that fast anyway as they are not put on roads with high speed limits AFAIK (could be wrong)

Slow down yes, stop no. And only for pedestrians, not for a cyclist thinking he has the right to cycle out in front of traffic.

If the pedestrian is clearly heading for the Zebra crossing, then I would stop, I know you would fail your test if you went through if it was a clear a ped was about to step onto one.

If a ped is at the lights waiting to cross, then they are on the crossing in my eyes and in the eyes of a tester and presumably the Gardai

HivemindXX

Whatever about motorists having to stop when a cyclist is waiting at a pedestrian crossing it appears as if the OP was already crossing the road. Seems similar to the sort of situation that would happen if the cyclist had turned right.

In my opinion the motorist was required to stop for someone already in the road so they were in the wrong and an asshole to boot.

Seems like yet another dangerous cycling 'facility' though.

iwillhtfu

CramCycle wrote: »

If there is ever a pedestrian near a zebra crossing you shouldn't be driving so fast that you would have to swerve IMO, hell if your coming to a zebra crossing, a motorist shouldn't be going that fast anyway as they are not put on roads with high speed limits AFAIK (could be wrong)

If the pedestrian is clearly heading for the Zebra crossing, then I would stop, I know you would fail your test if you went through if it was a clear a ped was about to step onto one.

If a ped is at the lights waiting to cross, then they are on the crossing in my eyes and in the eyes of a tester and presumably the Gardai

To be fair to motorists. If these crossings are the ones I'm thinking of there are no signs warning motorists that they're approaching a zebra crossing and they are positioned right on top of the entry/exit to large 2 lane roundabouts. The street lighting is poor at best.

I'm actually going to send off an email to carlow coco to see what the situation is here and why are there no road signs to warn motorists.

iwillhtfu

CramCycle wrote: »

If a ped is at the lights waiting to cross, then they are on the crossing in my eyes and in the eyes of a tester and presumably the Gardai

There are no lights at the crossing I'm refering to.

CramCycle

iwillhtfu wrote: »

To be fair to motorists. If these crossings are the ones I'm thinking of there are no signs warning motorists that they're approaching a zebra crossing and they are positioned right on top of the entry/exit to large 2 lane roundabouts. The street lighting is poor at best.

iwillhtfu wrote: »

There are no lights at the crossing I'm refering to.

Shock horror as poor road design reigns supreme, not that I was in any doubt but yet again, a council and its road engineers have proven their distaste for pedestrians.

This said the one in UCD has lights, not on a junction and in an area with a signposted speed limit of 15kmph I think and it really makes no difference.

iwillhtfu

CramCycle wrote: »

Shock horror as poor road design reigns supreme, not that I was in any doubt but yet again, a council and its road engineers have proven their distaste for pedestrians.

Not wishing anyone any harm but I'd be curious to the liability of the council if a pedestrian was involved in an accident with a car. I can't imagine it would be to difficult to raise an arguement as to the validity of these poorly designed crossings.

If successful in your arguement then surely it's a case of the pedestrian walking out in front of oncoming traffic.

The ped could then surely argue the point that they were lead to believe by the deigner/council the crossing was valid and they had right of way.

my3cents

I think the pedestrian crossing by the Spar at Abbeyside Dungarvan has similar issues. Its on a speed ramp so cars have to slow down but the cycle lanes either side are "plumbed" directly into it and I've seen a few near misses when cyclists just drive on without looking for traffic. I now look for any cyclists that are within 25m of the crossing because if they do want to use the crossing there is a high probability they won't stop.

I wonder if the OP was travelling on a "Smarter Travel" cycle lane. The ones that I give extra attention to and take a second look back along the cycle tracks in Dungarvan are all the result of "Smarter Travel".

CramCycle

my3cents wrote: »

I wonder if the OP was travelling on a "Smarter Travel" cycle lane. The ones that I give extra attention to and take a second look back along the cycle tracks in Dungarvan are all the result of "Smarter Travel".

What is "smarter travel" is it rubbish talk for we didn't think it through or is it more of a, if people paid as much attention and were as polite as they should be, this might work, in theory.

my3cents

CramCycle wrote: »

What is "smarter travel" is it rubbish talk for we didn't think it through or is it more of a, if people paid as much attention and were as polite as they should be, this might work, in theory.

http://www.smartertravel.ie/content/national-cycle-network