Chimney problem

KierKenn

Would be very thankful for an answer to this. Have a problem with my chimney whereby there is black staining on the interior of the chimney stack in the attic. I have had three chimney specialists look at it. Two said that the stack needs to be knocked and rebuilt and that the chimney should also be relined (as they could see some cracks with their cameras - and showed them to be too). However, the other one told me that only the re-lining needs to be done. He actually seemed to be the most professional of the three. Obviously I would rather just to the re-lining (as cheaper and less messy/inconvenient), however I really don't want to do it and then find that I should actually have knocked and rebuilt (i.e. if it leaks later on). My question is.....is there a way in which I can tell if it is the Chimney lining or the Chimney stack that is the cause of my problem?

Deano7

KierKenn wrote: »

Would be very thankful for an answer to this. Have a problem with my chimney whereby there is black staining on the interior of the chimney stack in the attic. I have had three chimney specialists look at it. Two said that the stack needs to be knocked and rebuilt and that the chimney should also be relined (as they could see some cracks with their cameras - and showed them to be too). However, the other one told me that only the re-lining needs to be done. He actually seemed to be the most professional of the three. Obviously I would rather just to the re-lining (as cheaper and less messy/inconvenient), however I really don't want to do it and then find that I should actually have knocked and rebuilt (i.e. if it leaks later on). My question is.....is there a way in which I can tell if it is the Chimney lining or the Chimney stack that is the cause of my problem?

The source of the soot comes from the the inner lining of the chimney stack, therefore there is a crack within your liners and stack. You most likely had a chimney fire and can claim on your insurance for this event. Contact a Public Loss Assessor who can assist you in obtaining a significant amount more than the insurance company will offer. I dealt with [snip] a number of years ago and I would highly recommend them.

Calahonda52

OP: the chimney is cracked from the flue liner out to the attic.
I don't know what is meant by relining, but if it means jet putting in a flexible stainless steel liner then thats not enough as they don't last for any length of time and if the liner develops a hole, the flue gases will then again get back into the attic.

Re the insurance idea, yes its an option, what Deano7 does not tell you is what the house policy renewal premium was after the claim was made: on most policies its a 3 or 5 year hit
I had a similar issue and it was cheaper over 2 years to just rebuild without claiming

KierKenn

Thank you for your advice.
One builder suggested a solid steel liner (not a flexible one), but will that be enough? MY REAL UNCERTAINTY THAT I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE HELP WITH IS: how do I know if re-lining is enough or if the chimney stack also needs to be rebuilt?

Calahonda52

KierKenn wrote: »

Thank you for your advice.
One builder suggested a solid steel liner (not a flexible one), but will that be enough? MY REAL UNCERTAINTY THAT I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE HELP WITH IS: how do I know if re-lining is enough or if the chimney stack also needs to be rebuilt?

Know nothing about a solid steel liner for a domestic chimney so what follows is just my general opinion:
I would imagine it will need to be:
custom made
CE certified
some sort of stainless steel.
will require some amount of demolition and making good to fit the solid stack
which to me seems that rebuilding the stack might be cheaper

Strolling Bones

KierKenn wrote: »

I have had three chimney specialists look at it. Two said that the stack needs to be knocked and rebuilt and that the chimney should also be relined (as they could see some cracks with their cameras - and showed them to be too).

so what is the question again?

antiskeptic

KierKenn wrote: »

Would be very thankful for an answer to this. Have a problem with my chimney whereby there is black staining on the interior of the chimney stack in the attic. I have had three chimney specialists look at it. Two said that the stack needs to be knocked and rebuilt and that the chimney should also be relined (as they could see some cracks with their cameras - and showed them to be too). However, the other one told me that only the re-lining needs to be done. He actually seemed to be the most professional of the three. Obviously I would rather just to the re-lining (as cheaper and less messy/inconvenient), however I really don't want to do it and then find that I should actually have knocked and rebuilt (i.e. if it leaks later on). My question is.....is there a way in which I can tell if it is the Chimney lining or the Chimney stack that is the cause of my problem?

1. After a decent bit of research, I used one of the more established co's to survey my chimney after a bad fire. They suggested demolishing the stack (above roof level) and rebuilding, along with relining. Whilst the lining made sense (the video showed chunks of it missing - with me retrieving them from the grate), the stack rebuild didn't at all.

It was relined with flexible liner and loose brickwork in the stack reset and the whole repointed - not because the fire caused damage but because it needed it after 100 years anyway.

2. Note that some co's will suggest a 6" liner which will drop down nicely in the standard 8" flue with minimal disruption. Why did they use an 8" flue originally if a 6" would do though? Avoid such 6" co's - even though installing an 8" means breaking through the chimney breast inside the house.

3. The same co. who did my work were brought in to survey another house I bought. I got the chimney power swept to remove the crud which condenses high up the chimney where it's cooler and then the camera down. "Need's a reline" they said (invariably). I looked at the video and the worst I could see were hairline cracks. "Ah, but it's the fumes" they said "it ain't gas tight".

I queried why there was a brick-sized & shaped hole in each of the flues in the video. These led to a brick-sized wall vent in the chimney breast above each of the bedroom fireplaces. "It doesn't seem to me that gas-tightness was the order of the day when these went in - seeing as they designed in brick-sized holes in the flue". Silence.

The room vents were there to make use of the natural updraught which had the effect of sucking fresh air through the room and into the flue a few feet above the fireplace: either to provide general ventilation or to ensure no CO build up in bedrooms when folk were asleep and a fire was on the go (there was no such vent in the living room breast). Point being: gas tightness isn't a concern for a system whose tendency is to draw air in rather an expel air/fumes out. Large scale flue damage is a problem, not hairline cracks

4) You've got soot coming through the wall in the attic. Why? It strikes me that chimneys get rain in them, which liquifies the soot high up in the chimney - which could then be expected to seep through / be drawn into hairline cracks/joints in flue sections as it trickles down.

Is there any particular reason for this to be a concern for you?

Deano7

Calahonda52 wrote: »

OP: the chimney is cracked from the flue liner out to the attic.
I don't know what is meant by relining, but if it means jet putting in a flexible stainless steel liner then thats not enough as they don't last for any length of time and if the liner develops a hole, the flue gases will then again get back into the attic.

Re the insurance idea, yes its an option, what Deano7 does not tell you is what the house policy renewal premium was after the claim was made: on most policies its a 3 or 5 year hit
I had a similar issue and it was cheaper over 2 years to just rebuild without claiming

Sounds mad!

Calahonda52

In terms of relining, just saw this today as an alternative to a full rebuild
The original filling around the lining was loose rubble.
The scaffolding disguises the fact that on top they opened it about half way down, then left a block and then all the way down to just above the lead flashing.