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Notice for PCA

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭HighburyLad


    I don't think it will impact significantly, nobody is appointable until they pass all of the remaining stages, by 12 weeks, for those that do need a retest, those that are further down in merit could potentially be ahead in terms of passed medical, or have been offered a place. It's in everyone's best interested to pass first time. The squads will still continue as normal once a month and they will want folks to fill those spots no matter merit, providing you have passed the remaining stages.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Mop a top


    I think that's a pile of poop!!!! We're expected to do the job, same as the guys so we should test the same as the guys. It's hardly fair to all those girls in campaign 1 who failed their PCA. Should have left it as it is. That's only my opinion but I know there's several who's disagree and welcome the new changes


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,454 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    My worry on this is that it might trickle over into stations, and those who needed to do it again may be viewed as physically, ergo operationally, inferior or incapable. Worse again, would be this attitude affecting specifically female Constables' potential career paths if they are not given opportunities to display their effectiveness in combative situations, and are deliberately used only in situations where "a woman's touch" is required - such as rape victims.

    From there, we could now be about to witness a possible plausible defence of direct discrimination, because we could be about to see a two-tier approach to passing the PCA: A women's PCA? The isokinetic apparatus being lowered to account for height? Extra time for women?

    IMHO, this is a bad idea being played with. I don't know about you guys, but if I'm given a choice, I want to work with the human who did what it took to pass both elements of the PCA in the permitted time, first time around, regardless of sex. I do not like the possibility of Cons refusing to work with people because they are afraid that said person just wouldn't be able to adequately assist in combative situations. So we're drafting a Policing Plan from the 70s? Send the men into the riot, and have the women bring them tea and sandwiches, and administer the odd foot rub? Oh and when you go back to the station, don't forget, those spuds in the kitchen aren't gonna peel themselves. Oh, and I'm the guilty one from cubicle 2 in the men's toilets. It just wouldn't flush.

    AND, we could be looking at 2 civil cases on the same day in the Court diary. A Constable (who failed the PCA the first time) suing for direct discrimination because they are never tasked to physically demanding calls, and beside them, another Constable is suing because his partner (who failed the PCA the first time) was unable to help in a prolonged combative situation, which resulted in him becoming injured as he tried to overpower the suspect on his own/with inadequate assistance from the partner.

    I don't care if you're a man or a woman. Can you do the job? If "Yes", welcome aboard. If "No", please try again.

    Dear Employer,

    You're doing it wrong.

    -Shield.


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭Jalapeno peppers


    I don't think it should be only women given a second chance but both... To be fair when you have put your heart and soul into getting this position there's a lot of pressure to succeed at it, I know for a fact I sm for enough to pass it but I am worried about getting too 'in my head' on the day because I have so much riding on it, I have cancelled holidays and lost a lot of money in the process so far, I've also put everything else on the back burner and am training hard 5 nights per week, I've changed my whole diet and have spent hundreds of pounds on PT sessions.... So I worry about failing it because I know when I go in im going to be in a panic that I won't pass and it will all be for nothing, so I think even knowing that there is a second chance will help me to pass the first time round as it takes the pressure off and makes it easier to focus on what you're doing


  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭The keyboard warrior


    I was in the car park with women who were visibly upset after failing the pca in the first campaign - we never got a second chance - it was goodbye and good luck so I therefore see this as a bit of an insult.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 972 ✭✭✭Goonerdee


    I thought everybody was getting a second chance?


  • Registered Users Posts: 508 ✭✭✭.S.


    I failed my pca last campaign, on time. Like you jalapeño I spent a fortune on pt sessions and I know I could have and should have passed. I listened to too many people, had too much going through my head about clean laps, pacing yourself, leaving something in the tank for the push pull, making sure the last year of work in the gym was worth it. I was overcautious and Ive no one to blame for failing but myself. But I learnt. I could've passed it the next day, I could pass it now. I know what I have to do.

    I failed, I got the "your application is not being progressed at present" letter. And I am angry they are moving the goal posts. I think it should remain as it was, one chance. They're opening themselves up to people saying I failed last time, I should've got a second chance. I should be in on the higher salary. In all honesty I think this decision shows a lack of integrity and coming from an organisation that bases so much on that quality I'm disappointed at this move. However. I continue to train at least 5x a week. I am healthier and happier than I've ever been. If / when they progress the merit list I'll be ready. And I won't need a second chance.

    (Thanks for commenting Shield, was interested in what your thoughts would be)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Mop a top


    Totally agree with Shield. I know it's "easy" for me to say having passed it but that's exactly my fear about changes being made. I want to be seen as an equal not inferior or a liability cos of my sex. I want to be standing shoulder to shoulder with the guys in riot gear not tucked away somewhere safe.

    Jalapeño you won't get to much in your head. The nerves will kick in while you're waiting but as soon as you're at the start line everything will just click and you'll be totally focused on hauling ass around the course and digging as deep as you can when you get to that point of "there's no more to give" to finish the lap.

    I really feel for the folk in campaign 1 who didn't pass, especially those who missed out by a few seconds, I know there were several great girls who would have passed if they'd have been given a second chance.

    I honestly think the retest is a kick in the teeth to a lot of folk and it will be interesting to see how I'm treated now IF I'm lucky enough to get a call.


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭Jalapeno peppers


    Sorry guys it is changing for men and women I got the wrong end of the stick there!
    If I had been in campaign 1 I'd probably be a bit annoyed too but I genuinely think this should have been the case from day one, my friend failed because she had to go back for knocking a cone and failed by something like 2 seconds... It's not really a reflection on her fitness and if she'd had a second chance she'd be in by now... I personally think the fitness they do in the mainland is more indicative of actual fitness than ours


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Sthm


    I can completely understand the annoyance some candidates from campaign one would have to this policy. I think it's unfair for the posts to be moved, personally.

    If I recall right, part of the Winsor reforms were that mainland services were to move from their current job related fitness test to a model more in line with the PSNI's PCA within the next few years. I'm guessing as the PCA is more based on potential situations an officer may encounter whilst operational. In my opinion, I think a level five bleep test, such as the tests across the water, doesn't simulate the type of fitness perhaps required (anaerobic) and is really too easy.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭KevBo2015


    I would imagine no one will be asking when you get to station have you passed your PCA first go or second? I mean if you have two attempts at a marathon, fail the first and pass the second your still fit surely? If you pass the PCA your deemed fit enough to do the job....

    If you fail it first time and put your heart and soul into it and pass the second then your fit enough to be standing there beside any man in a riot surely...? I'll be looking to pass it first try like everyone, but its the nature of the beast. People got scores in the AC that have slim chance this year, would be one of the first intakes last year. The goal posts move.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Sthm


    Where does it stop though? Does this mean anyone going for HMSU, CPU, TSG etc. are going to be given concessions if they fail the fitness test for specialist roles first time round?

    It's all a competition and giving second chances seems to defeat the principle of merit. No one's given a second chance at the AC because they were unprepared or had a bad day, so I think the PCA should be the same. Especially now that candidates have had a whole year to prepare for the test.


  • Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭KevBo2015


    The candidates that failed it last year had the same amount of time the ones in this campaign have had and some of them failed it too. I think a second chance is not a bad thing, its still harder to get in that it was. Years ago you got into GV, done all your training AND THEN done a PCA and if you failed it you got another shot and if push came to shove you had leave the force after all the training.

    It went to PCA one shot fail and now its somewhere in the middle...Surely that is good?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Mop a top


    I don't like the idea of the retest as it's unfair to people who failed the PCA in 1309 campaign with the same AC score as those who get a second chance at it in the 1405 recruitment. My concern is in future campaigns they make it easier or different for girls to pass, that's when they'd become a liability and possibly start looking at all us females as inferior regardless of which PCA they took.


  • Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Icarus9


    At the end of the day there they have changed the goal posts in a completely different campaign after reviewing feedback and data from the first campaign. The same could be said for those who went and paid hundreds of pounds for a European computer driver livense(ECDL) which was a requirement for the first campaign only to have it no longer be a requirement for the 2nd campaign. There can't really be complaints, if goal posts were being changed after people had already done a pca in the current campaign then yes there could be complaints but they have got this sorted prior to them beginning. Businesses change their entry criteria all the time and we just have to adapt to them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Mop a top


    But at the same time people in campaign 2 are tested at their AC so Deloitte knew they were computer literate. Sort of the same but different :P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 47 820sox


    Couple of questions about the pca.

    Is the time taken to walk from the end of the last lap to the push/pull and the 20 seconds of this, included in the time needed to complete 3 laps to pass. Or is it essentially split into two parts, you need to pass the 3 laps in the specific time, then the walk untimed and then then pull/push of 26kgf?

    Also, how many people are roughly in the room watching you doing the pca?

    Thanks :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭Jalapeno peppers


    The walk is untimed but I am not sure about how many as far as I know you should be the only one in with the next person coming in at the end


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 47 820sox


    The walk is untimed but I am not sure about how many as far as I know you should be the only one in with the next person coming in at the end

    Thanks :) I've been playing over every potential scenario in my head, which is the worst thing I can do!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Mop a top


    The walk ISNT unlimited. You can't take your time to get your breath back. You literally finish your 3rd lap the you have to walk straight to the push pull, no wasting time.

    The PCA's I've done they always start the next person when you're half way around your last lap, usually at the stair climb. There will be no one else in the room apart from the 2 of you and the two PTI's. Trust me you won't even notice they're there, if you do you're not focused enough on what you're doing.

    The 3 min 54 is for the 3 laps, you'll have a few seconds to walk round to the push pull and get your position then it's 20s to obtain an AVERAGE FORCE of 26kg. Good luck my lovely, try not to over think it :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 47 820sox


    Mop a top wrote: »
    The walk ISNT unlimited. You can't take your time to get your breath back. You literally finish your 3rd lap the you have to walk straight to the push pull, no wasting time.

    The PCA's I've done they always start the next person when you're half way around your last lap, usually at the stair climb. There will be no one else in the room apart from the 2 of you and the two PTI's. Trust me you won't even notice they're there, if you do you're not focused enough on what you're doing.

    The 3 min 54 is for the 3 laps, you'll have a few seconds to walk round to the push pull and get your position then it's 20s to obtain an AVERAGE FORCE of 26kg. Good luck my lovely, try not to over think it :)


    Thank yooou :) I don't doubt my fitness or strength for it, I worry about the pressure and my height being a bit detrimental to the push/pull. Ahh this is all I have been able to think about the past week!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Mop a top


    820sox wrote: »
    Thank yooou :) I don't doubt my fitness or strength for it, I worry about the pressure and my height being a bit detrimental to the push/pull. Ahh this is all I have been able to think about the past week!


    Don't overthink it. I said that yesterday, it's as much a mental test as well as physical. Try and relax, everyone will be in the same boat as yourself so just try and have a bit of banter while you're waiting. I'm 5'5 and passed my PCAs so don't worry about it. I know girls who are smaller and passed. It's a total body work out, not just upper so throw everything behind it. It will soon be over and if you don't pass this time, you've got another shot at it :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 47 820sox


    Mop a top wrote: »
    Don't overthink it. I said that yesterday, it's as much a mental test as well as physical. Try and relax, everyone will be in the same boat as yourself so just try and have a bit of banter while you're waiting. I'm 5'5 and passed my PCAs so don't worry about it. I know girls who are smaller and passed. It's a total body work out, not just upper so throw everything behind it. It will soon be over and if you don't pass this time, you've got another shot at it :)

    It's great having you on these boards! Think you've answered every question I've had! Haha.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,696 ✭✭✭Mop a top


    820sox wrote: »
    It's great having you on these boards! Think you've answered every question I've had! Haha.

    Lol I'll take that as a compliment ;) I've had to pick things up along the way and had so many questions until I found boards. It's good to give back what I got out :)


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