Air Corps Gulfstream 4 Sold

Xpro

Just read on the rte news that Government G4 was sold for €460,000 euros to a US based company.

Im struggling to believe this figure as this type of aircrafts are generally selling for in around 5 to 10 million US dollars?

Was it something wrong with or did it reach EOL?


http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0330/690897-government-jet-sold-to-us-company/

L1011

It's grounded due to expensive repairs outstanding so the value looks accurate enough - it's probably going for parting out

Klunk001

I believe it`s now on the N reg and flying out of Florida.
Similar airframe with more hours, on the market for just over 3 million Dollars.

http://www.regosearch.com/aircraft/us/297PJ

Xpro

L1011 wrote: »

It's grounded due to expensive repairs outstanding so the value looks accurate enough - it's probably going for parting out

Back up and running as N297PJ with fresh C of A just received some 10 days ago.

Sounds to me whoever bought it got one hell of a bargain.. You wouldn't buy a 10 year old piston twin for that price!


N297PJ Active
Aircraft
Manufacturer
GULFSTREAM AEROSPACE
Model
G-IV
Serial Number
1160
Type
fixed_multi
Category
land
Engines
2
Seats
22
Weight
CLASS 3
Year of Manufacture
Mode S Code
50610311 / A310C9
Registrant
Name
JOURNEY 1160 LLC
Address
3700 AIRPORT RD STE 204
BOCA RATON, FL 33431-6409
Fractional
No
Engines
Dates
Airworthiness
0001-01-01
Certificate Issued
2015-03-20
Last Activity
2015-03-20
Expiration Date
2018-03-31
Show details

Xpro

Klunk001 wrote: »

I believe it`s now on the N reg and flying out of Florida.
Similar airframe with more hours, on the market for just over 3 million Dollars.

http://www.regosearch.com/aircraft/us/297PJ

you beat me to it:)

Klunk001

Marchetti`s
Dauphine`s
G IV

The Americans certainly get a lot of bang for their Bucks when dealing with the Dept of Defence. A good return on Tax payers money:rolleyes:

coylemj

Remember Sir Humphrey's solution any time they needed to kick something into the long grass?

An inter-departmental group has now been established to see if another replacement aircraft will be sought.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0330/690897-government-jet-sold-to-us-company/

Can't see anything happening with a general election less than a year away.

BonkeyDonker

Klunk001 wrote: »

Marchetti`s
Dauphine`s
G IV

The Americans certainly get a lot of bang for their Bucks when dealing with the Dept of Defence. A good return on Tax payers money:rolleyes:

Its hard to know without knowing what was required to get it airworthy again.

billy few mates

Does anybody know what exactly it was that grounded it....?

cppilot98

BonkeyDonker wrote: »

Its hard to know without knowing what was required to get it airworthy again.

That's the reality. Government's are risk averse to stuff like that. It's like that show 'Wheeler Dealers' Buy something, put some money into it and sell it on. Government's just don't do that.

Peregrine

billy few mates wrote: »

Does anybody know what exactly it was that grounded it....?

Not exactly but it was reported to be some issue with the undercarriage.

The Cush

Dáil written reply last week

Tuesday, 24 March 2015

133. Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Defence the status of the two Government jets; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11619/15]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Simon Coveney): On the 27th of July last, the Gulfstream IV aircraft, which had been in service for 23 years, travelled to the Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation facility in Georgia, USA, for its annual maintenance inspection. During this inspection, it became apparent that the servicing and repair of the aircraft would have involved a significantly higher level of investment than was anticipated. Given the number of flying hours achieved and the age of the craft it was decided that the aircraft would be withdrawn from service and would not be returned back to Ireland.

The Department concluded the sale for the aircraft on an as seen basis with a US based company in December 2014. Meanwhile, the Ministerial Air Transport Service (MATS) is being provided by the Learjet 45 aircraft.

An inter-Departmental MATS Review Group has been established to examine options for the future provision of a service that will continue to provide the President, members of the Government and accompanying officials with an independent means of international air transport. When the Group has completed its deliberations and made its recommendations, I will bring a Report to Government with recommendations on how best to provide a MATS service into the future.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/dail2015032400054#WRA01400

billy few mates wrote: »

Does anybody know what exactly it was that grounded it....?

Wednesday, 28 January 2015

Deputy Simon Coveney: As I stated before, when the Gulfstream jet was presented for its due service last summer, many extra problems arose. The closer the aeroplane was looked at, the more issues that emerged with it such as corrosion on the undercarriage. I made the decision then that we were not going to spend any more money on it in trying to make it fit for purpose. Given the budgetary position the country was facing and the Government had to manage in the past four years, we had to ensure we were not spending money on an aeroplane that was really at the end of its life. Accordingly, we stopped spending money. We have since gone through a process of selling the aeroplane to get as much of a return as we can on it. I cannot give the Deputy figures as matters are still being finalised. However, the sales process is under way.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/JUS2015012800007

EchoIndia

Klunk001 wrote: »

I believe it`s now on the N reg and flying out of Florida.
Similar airframe with more hours, on the market for just over 3 million Dollars.

http://www.regosearch.com/aircraft/us/297PJ

What evidence have you that it is flying? I checked on Flightaware and there is no activity recorded. It could have been registered for a once-off ferry flight or indeed just to facilitate acquisition by a civilian owner. In any case, if someone is prepared to spend the money to return the aircraft to fully serviceable condition, that's their right. The Government here decided that they were not prepared to spend that money, presumably on the basis of an assessment of the costs involved.

coylemj

EchoIndia wrote: »

The Government here decided that they were not prepared to spend that money, presumably on the basis of an assessment of the costs involved.

The decision was probably prompted by political rather than commercial considerations. While it might have made sense to invest some money to make it more saleable or extend it's service life, the assorted lefties in the Dail would have jumped up and down kicking up a fuss, hence the path of least resistance was to simply dump it.

Tow

EchoIndia wrote: »

In any case, if someone is prepared to spend the money to return the aircraft to fully serviceable condition, that's their right.

Of course that is the new owners right. But it is our right as tax paying citizens of Ireland to know if the Irish Government made the correct decision in selling an asset of the state for so little money. On the face value of the current facts in the public domain it would appear not.

Chuck Aaron

Absolutely mind boggling alas zero surprise, a political not commercial move.

Just like the Dauphin debacle...

"GOVERNMENT ministers have denied that the taxpayer lost out on millions of euro following the sale of four Irish army helicopters.

The four Defence Forces helicopters were originally sold to a US company for a mere €311,000 but, according to weekend reports, were then resold to the Chilean navy for nearly €19 million.

However, Junior Defence Minister Pat Carey yesterday said it was “factually incorrect” as claimed in reports that taxpayers had lost out on the deal.

The Dauphin helicopters were 20 years old, he explained, and had been in need of serious and costly repair.

“They had been taken out of a lot of operational matters including search and rescue. Their capabilities were extremely limited.

“The other issue was the avionics in them were first generation and would have needed replacement and the reality is it wasn’t possible to get avionics for them or spare parts,” he told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland.

The decision was taken to sell the army aircraft in 2006 after internal department inquiries estimated that the cost of doing up the aircraft could have been up to €3.5m for each one, added Mr Carey.

The price received was the “best price got”, he stressed.

“We believe the correct course of action was taken because replacement helicopters and other planes for the Air Corps were necessary,” he added.

The four helicopters were sold to Colorado firm Rotor Leasing.

Company official Christopher Bateman yesterday said: “None of them were airworthy, two of them hadn’t flown in four years. The other two had been more recently taken out of service.”

The aircraft had been due for significant inspections before being sold by the Government but were in various states of disrepair, he added.

The US company had incurred huge costs bringing the helicopters across the Atlantic, repairing them and then had put them on the market a year and half ago, the company official added.

Mr Bateman told RTÉ that the original price for the helicopters was a fair one. He would not say how much they were sold on for but admitted the price had been at least 100% above the original sale price but only after the repairs had been completed."

smurfjed

They never stated what the problem with the aircraft, so its very hard to judge its value, but its nowhere near $10m. Although the two engines should be worth more than $640k

EchoIndia

The people here who are criticising the sale haven't spelled out what they would have done instead.

Chuck Aaron

EchoIndia wrote: »

The people here who are criticising the sale haven't spelled out what they would have done instead.

Put a few quid into it and get the C of A and sell her on for something other than peanuts.

EchoIndia

Chuck Aaron wrote: »

Put a few quid into it and get the C of A and sell her on for something other than peanuts.

How much would you be prepared to spend?

Chuck Aaron

EchoIndia wrote: »

How much would you be prepared to spend?

Im not the Irish government, it's their job to have taken the commercial road and get the best buck they could have got for the Irish people.

If I were dealing in second hand gulfstreams I'm sure I, like the lad who got his hands on it, would make a profit from it, which he did.

smurfjed

$640K really sounds as if it was sold for scrap.

L1011

Chuck Aaron wrote: »

Put a few quid into it and get the C of A and sell her on for something other than peanuts.

So they should open a Gulfstream overhaul shop for one job?

Chuck Aaron

L1011 wrote: »

So they should open a Gulfstream overhaul shop for one job?

Let's think completely outside the box for a moment now petal...

The Irish Government Gulfstream, it needed a few parts whether it be safe life or fail safe parts, throw those on and its net worth would be an enormous amount more than that without the parts, and it sitting, wasting away on the ground where it was left at the TIME OF SALE.

Used the caps there for, like emphasis.

Best point that out 'case you need that explained to you too.

L1011

Chuck Aaron wrote: »

Let's think completely outside the box for a moment now petal...

The Irish Government Gulfstream, it needed a few parts whether it be safe life or fail safe parts, throw those on and its net worth would be an enormous amount more than that without the parts, and it sitting, wasting away on the ground where it was left at the TIME OF SALE.

Used the caps there for, like emphasis.

Best point that out 'case you need that explained to you too.

So you want the Government to start investing money in retired assets in the hope that they can increase the value, then?

You do realise that this isn't the job of a Government, ever, anywhere right?

They sold it at its asset value to someone who has taken a risk on it. End of story.

lord lucan

Chuck Aaron wrote: »

Let's think completely outside the box for a moment now petal...

The Irish Government Gulfstream, it needed a few parts whether it be safe life or fail safe parts, throw those on and its net worth would be an enormous amount more than that without the parts, and it sitting, wasting away on the ground where it was left at the TIME OF SALE.

Used the caps there for, like emphasis.

Best point that out 'case you need that explained to you too.

Less of the attitude please, attack the post not the poster.

EchoIndia

Chuck Aaron wrote: »

Let's think completely outside the box for a moment now petal...

The Irish Government Gulfstream, it needed a few parts whether it be safe life or fail safe parts, throw those on and its net worth would be an enormous amount more than that without the parts, and it sitting, wasting away on the ground where it was left at the TIME OF SALE.

Used the caps there for, like emphasis.

Best point that out 'case you need that explained to you too.

It must be great to be possessed of such certainty in the absence of any definitive information about the nature of the issues found with the aircraft and the costs associated with rectifying them. (Those costs might have run into millions.) The Government had in any case decided back in 2013 or so that it was not going to expend any substantial amount on keeping the G-IV in service so, once issues were found during last year's check, that probably sealed its fate.

Chuck Aaron

L1011 wrote: »

So you want the Government to start investing money in retired assets in the hope that they can increase the value, then?

You do realise that this isn't the job of a Government, ever, anywhere right?

They sold it at its asset value to someone who has taken a risk on it. End of story.

You, my friend, haven't a clue.

The Jet was/is an investment to anyone with a brain, in the industry.

The net worth alone was more than the sales point, doesn't take Halking to work that one out.

Simon, who is technically responsible as minister DOD, should have taken his finger out and got a fair price for it.

His father would frown I'd imagine what with his lack of luster.

Give a bunch of teachers the reigns, Painful tbh.

Chuck Aaron

lord lucan wrote: »

Less of the attitude please, attack the post not the poster.

Point taken.

Wouldn't have called it an 'attack' tbh LL.

Chuck Aaron

EchoIndia wrote: »

It must be great to be possessed of such certainty in the absence of any definitive information about the nature of the issues found with the aircraft and the costs associated with rectifying them. (Those costs might have run into millions.) The Government had in any case decided back in 2013 or so that it was not going to expend any substantial amount on keeping the G-IV in service so, once issues were found during last year's check, that probably sealed its fate.

Call it Magic, or as I call it Experience.

Living in the real world helps by the way E.I.

EchoIndia

Chuck Aaron wrote: »

Call it Magic, or as I call it Experience.

Living in the real world helps by the way E.I.

I don't know what it would have cost to render the aircraft fully serviceable prior to sale, but perhaps you do?

Chuck Aaron

EchoIndia wrote: »

I don't know what it would have cost to render the aircraft fully serviceable prior to sale, but perhaps you do?

I know the sellers hadn't a clue.

I know the buyers were laughing out loud with the deal they arrived at.

Back in the air and added some lad an indoor swimming pool, college tuition to his three kids and two jags in the had-to-build new twin California garage.

Why do I get the impression reality isn't a strong point.

L1011

Chuck Aaron wrote: »

Back in the air and added some lad an indoor swimming pool, college tuition to his three kids and two jags in the had-to-build new twin California garage.

Based on what knowledge of the repair costs?

You have zero facts here.

EchoIndia

L1011 wrote: »

Based on what knowledge of the repair costs?

You have zero facts here.

Probably best not to indulge him further. Facts clearly aren't required.

lord lucan

Chuck Aaron wrote: »

Point taken.

Wouldn't have called it an 'attack' tbh LL.

And yet you do it again in the next post after being warned. I've just noticed that Tenger warned you earlier in another thread. Next one is a ban from A&A.

Chuck Aaron

L1011 wrote: »

Based on what knowledge of the repair costs?

You have zero facts here.

C'mere 11 love, unless you're Mrs. Coveney herself there is absolutely no reason why you're putting up any kind of fracas whatsoever.

The sale of which the Irish Government Jet was literally "jettisoned" for is completely absurd to the Irish Tax Payer.

Absurd.

You're, sorry, we're paying for it every day.

But KFC probably over rules it's, eh hun.

Chuck Aaron

lord lucan wrote: »

And yet you do it again in the next post after being warned. I've just noticed that Tenger warned you earlier in another thread. Next one is a ban from A&A.

Double L, cool.

L1011

Chuck Aaron wrote: »

C'mere 11 love, unless you're Mrs. Coveney herself there is absolutely no reason why you're putting up any kind of fracas whatsoever.

The sale of which the Irish Government Jet was literally "jettisoned" for is completely absurd to the Irish Tax Payer.

Absurd.

You're, sorry, we're paying for it every day.

But KFC probably over rules it's, eh hun.

So:

No facts
No figures
No basis

If you're so sure about this I'd have imagined you'd have all three.

billy few mates

The main problem is these decisions are handled by people who are clearly unqualified and vastly inexperienced in these matters, throw in the fact that a lot of these decisions are made for political rather than economical reasons and you're always going to have situations like these (the Dauphins and the Gulfstream). Ireland is a centre of excellence and a world leader in the field of aviation finance, leasing and sales and the government should draw on this wealth of experience to guide them in making these decisions instead of leaving them to inexperienced high grade civil servants and unqualified elected representatives.

FWVT

Chuck Aaron wrote: »

I know the sellers hadn't a clue.

I know the buyers were laughing out loud with the deal they arrived at.

Back in the air and added some lad an indoor swimming pool, college tuition to his three kids and two jags in the had-to-build new twin California garage.

Why do I get the impression reality isn't a strong point.

"I know..."

If you really do know then do please share your source so that we too can know if what you are saying is true or whether it's just what I think most people here think it is.

How much did the new owner put into it and sell if for, and hence how much they had left over for the pool, college fees and jags?

kilburn

Was reading this thread with interest until the rants but I feel it's important to point out that his name is Hawking not Halking. ðŸ˜႒

Crumbs868

Chuck Aaron wrote: »

Let's think completely outside the box for a moment now petal...

The Irish Government Gulfstream, it needed a few parts whether it be safe life or fail safe parts, throw those on and its net worth would be an enormous amount more than that without the parts, and it sitting, wasting away on the ground where it was left at the TIME OF SALE.

Used the caps there for, like emphasis.

Best point that out 'case you need that explained to you too.

Government is not in the business of aircraft repair. Simple as

I'm sure they relied on the advice of the gulf stream professionals WHO ARE IN THE POSESSION OF THE FACTS and made a call to sell rather than tie up tax payers money with the hope that they could make a profit from s repair

roundymac

I'm suprised the Gov did'nt get either EI or FR to handle the sale for them, they surly have contacts with plenty of brokers who deal in this.

Xpro

roundymac wrote: »

I'm suprised the Gov did'nt get either EI or FR to handle the sale for them, they surly have contacts with plenty of brokers who deal in this.

Sure Clowns in Government don't care, all they have to do introduce something like water charges and citizens will make up for their loss. :pac:

roundymac

Xpro wrote: »

Sure Clowns in Government don't care, all they have to do introduce something like water charges and citizens will make up for their loss. :pac:

That's a great reply to my post.:mad:

Xpro

roundymac wrote: »

That's a great reply to my post.:mad:

I was surprised too, and I agree with you, hence the sarcastic post..:)

Preset No.3

A little bird told me the Enda & Co have access to a GIV. Has anyone seen anything in BAL recently that might confirm that?

pepe the prawn

There was a jet in cork on Monday doing practice ILS's, call sign Irish 258, not quite sure what it was because I could only see it from the front as it approached and was busy with other stuff as it passed in front of me,

Cessna_Pilot

pepe the prawn wrote: »

There was a jet in cork on Monday doing practice ILS's, call sign Irish 258, not quite sure what it was because I could only see it from the front as it approached and was busy with other stuff as it passed in front of me,

Irish 258 is the IAC Learjet.

de biz

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/government-jet-was-sold-for-350-000-less-than-value-1.2811881

ED E

Was the sale the remit of the Air Corps itself of the Dept? Whoever's court it was in should see a dismissal. Not that they will.