WWE PG Era is so weak

rob316

There has been probably loads of threads about this but I'm a casual enough viewer over the last 10 years and everytime I watch the current format it's just so weak.

Wrestling for me as a kid was about the violence, the ridiculous characters, enthralling promos and backstage cuts. It was edgy and cool now its just boring. From what I see creative still have to roll out the old men to fill the big moments.

We can never have the attitude era back I don't think it would work today but man I don't know how the kids are into this today. Its just so clean cut and wholesome. My little cousin was telling me about John Cena about 5 years ago and how cool he was (I knew about him), I threw on Austin vs McMahon for him and he was stunned how fun it was. 10 year old kid like.

I watched last night like I do every year and to see people rating it as one of the best Mania's is a damning indictment of todays product.

Caovyn Lineah

You obviously dont understand just how huge a BUSINESS the WWE is nowadays, they have sponsors to answer to so theres no way they could have the Attitude era again, its too family orientated.

rob316

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

You obviously dont understand just how huge a BUSINESS the WWE is nowadays, they have sponsors to answer to so theres no way they could have the Attitude era again, its too family orientated.

Ya sorry pushed the post button before I got to that bit.

WWE is probably bigger than ever commercially and the PG rating change has helped them but they alienated the older generation. I'd have no problem watching it again if it was fun regardless of age, its like any TV show its just entertainment.

Why didn't they go PG-13 atleast, it just lacks so much. The biggest problem I see is stock characters, as you are very limited on how you can develop them.

I think Lesnar is excellent, but even he is from the tail end of the attitude era. But can you honestly see a single current WWE star rise to level of a Rock, Stone Cold or Triple H?

Caovyn Lineah

rob316 wrote: »

Ya sorry pushed the post button before I got to that bit.

WWE is probably bigger than ever commercially and the PG rating change has helped them but they alienated the older generation. I'd have no problem watching it again if it was fun regardless of age, its like any TV show its just entertainment.

Wrestlemania last night was loads of fun for me, im in my mid 30s and loved the Attitude era. Coincidentally im watching the Attitude documentary on the Network right now, i had forgotten just how often women in the crowd ripped their tops off. Raw would be taken off the air if that happened nowadays.

Mark Henry having a threesome with Terri and Jacqueline, theres no way it would be allowed now. Its a shame but its a totally different business nowadays.

Tugboats

rob316 wrote: »

Ya sorry pushed the post button before I got to that bit.

WWE is probably bigger than ever commercially and the PG rating change has helped them but they alienated the older generation. I'd have no problem watching it again if it was fun regardless of age, its like any TV show its just entertainment.

They haven't alienated the older generation. They are constantly pandering to them by wheeling out HHH, Taker, Rock, DX and NWO

Palo Alto

The Attitude Era was far more childish anyways. I think they tell better stories now when they put in the effort.

Caovyn Lineah

Tugboats wrote: »

They haven't alienated the older generation. They are constantly pandering to them by wheeling out HHH, Taker, Rock, DX and NWO

There is nothing wrong with a bit of nostalgia every now and again and Wrestlemania is the perfect place for it.

Just like in 20 years time, they will have the likes of Daniel Bryan come out on certain occasions.

rob316

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Wrestlemania last night was loads of fun for me, im in my mid 30s and loved the Attitude era. Coincidentally im watching the Attitude documentary on the Network right now, i had forgotten just how often women in the crowd ripped their tops off. Raw would be taken off the air if that happened nowadays.

Mark Henry having a threesome with Terri and Jacqueline, theres no way it would be allowed now. Its a shame but its a totally different business nowadays.

Oh ya the Attitude era when the Monday night wars were going was outrageous and I know it wouldn't stand today, but they have gone in a totally different extreme.

Caovyn Lineah

Palo Alto wrote: »

The Attitude Era was far more childish anyways. I think they tell better stories now when they put in the effort.

It was far from childish, the early and mid 90's was childish. The Attitude era was aimed at 16-30 year olds.

Tugboats

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with a bit of nostalgia every now and again and Wrestlemania is the perfect place for it.

Just like in 20 years time, they will have the likes of Daniel Bryan come out on certain occasions.

Its over done. Wrestlemania is their biggest platform and a chance to get and keep new fans. You tune into Raw a week or two after Mania and the people they wasted massive amounts of time on at Mania are nowhere to be seen.

But hey on the plus side a guy in his 30s who spent a fortune on a ringside ticket gets to mark out:rolleyes:

rob316

Palo Alto wrote: »

The Attitude Era was far more childish anyways. I think they tell better stories now when they put in the effort.

Not at all, it far more adult. A comment like that would suggest it was before your time possibly.

Caovyn Lineah

Tugboats wrote: »

Its over done. Wrestlemania is their biggest platform and a chance to get and keep new fans. You tune into Raw a week or two after Mania and the people they wasted massive amounts of time on at Mania are nowhere to be seen.

But hey on the plus side a guy in his 30s who spent a fortune on a ringside ticket gets to mark out:rolleyes:

Are you talking about Brock Lesnar?

Tugboats

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Are you talking about Brock Lesnar?

No im talking about Rock, HHH, Sting, Undertaker, DX, Nwo

Caovyn Lineah

Tugboats wrote: »

No im talking about Rock, HHH, Sting, Undertaker, DX, Nwo

You could very easily include Brock in that comment you made though. How many Raws has he been on since beating Cena last year?

lertsnim

Palo Alto wrote: »

The Attitude Era was far more childish anyways. I think they tell better stories now when they put in the effort.

More childish? Power bombing pensioners through tables, someone having sex with a corpse. Incredibly childish altogether.

Tugboats

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

You could very easily include Brock in that comment you made though. How many Raws has he been on since beating Cena last year?

Im not a fan of Brock but hes relevant to the show regardless of often he appears.

Did you see nothing wrong with HHH getting 60 minutes of TV time last night?

Palo Alto

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

It was far from childish, the early and mid 90's was childish. The Attitude era was aimed at 16-30 year olds.

I'm aware of that, I suppose I was conflating childishness with stupidity. T&A, rude words and violence is about as far from mature as I can imagine.

I liked elements of it, but I actually prefer the product now. Someone like Wyatt or Rollins thrives under the restrictions placed by a PG Audience, it makes them be more creative as a result.

I can't recall many stories of the Attitude Era as good as the Yes Movement, the list goes on.

We have it better now than we have ever had.

Palo Alto

lertsnim wrote: »

More childish? Power bombing pensioners through tables, someone having sex with a corpse. Incredibly childish altogether.

It is, actually. It's puerile and stupid. They tell far more nuanced stories now.

Caovyn Lineah

Tugboats wrote: »

Im not a fan of Brock but hes relevant to the show regardless of often he appears.

Did you see nothing wrong with HHH getting 60 minutes of TV time last night?

I had no problem with his match and although i felt the thing with Ronda was completely pointless it is most likely building up to a match with The Rock next year. He is on Raw every week, he is going to be running the company soon so i cant see how you are labelling him with NWO, Rock and DX.

rob316

Tugboats wrote: »

They haven't alienated the older generation. They are constantly pandering to them by wheeling out HHH, Taker, Rock, DX and NWO

They wheel them out because none of the current lot can match up to them, not even in the same league.

20 years from now will you remember Bryan, Reigns, Cena even Orton?
Guys like Rock, Austin, HHH, Taker, Y2J are pretty unforgettable in comparison.

All the characters today just seem overly scripted, they aren't given any creative freedom.

Caovyn Lineah

Palo Alto wrote: »

I can't recall many stories of the Attitude Era as good as the Yes Movement, the list goes on.

Austin?
Foley winning the title for the first time?
Austin and Rock feud over the IC title?
The original run of DX?

Thats 4 off the top of my head without even thinking.

Tugboats

rob316 wrote: »

They wheel them out because none of the current lot can match up to them, not even in the same league.

20 years from now will you remember Bryan, Reigns, Cena even Orton?
Guys like Rock, Austin, HHH, Taker, Y2J are pretty unforgettable in comparison.

All the characters today just seem overly scripted, they aren't given any creative freedom.

Thats a terrible attitude you have.

Caovyn Lineah

Tugboats wrote: »

Thats a terrible attitude you have.

You can say that but what hes saying is true.

In 20 years can you honestly see Reigns, Orton etc being spoken about in the same breath as we talk about Rock, Austin, Taker, HHH?

Right this minute, the only 3 i see getting close to that level are Cena, Bryan and Brock.

Insect Overlord

rob316 wrote: »

They wheel them out because none of the current lot can match up to them, not even in the same league.

20 years from now will you remember Bryan, Reigns, Cena even Orton?
Guys like Rock, Austin, HHH, Taker, Y2J are pretty unforgettable in comparison.

All the characters today just seem overly scripted, they aren't given any creative freedom.

Sergeant Slaughter, Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Doink, the Iron Sheik, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Hulk Hogan, Rick Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Pat Patterson, Gerald Briscoe, etc, have been getting called back for decades now. It's not a "WWE PG" phenomenon.

rob316

Palo Alto wrote: »

I'm aware of that, I suppose I was conflating childishness with stupidity. T&A, rude words and violence is about as far from mature as I can imagine.

I liked elements of it, but I actually prefer the product now. Someone like Wyatt or Rollins thrives under the restrictions placed by a PG Audience, it makes them be more creative as a result.

I can't recall many stories of the Attitude Era as good as the Yes Movement, the list goes on.

We have it better now than we have ever had.

:eek: How can you even type that.

Yes? sorry WHAT?

Palo Alto

WWE Network, NJPW World, Lucha Underground, Chikara/PWG/ROH all on my laptop?

Every WWE/ECW/WCW PPV streaming?

Better produced documentaries?

Can't complain.

Forgot the best of all, NXT!

Caovyn Lineah

rob316 wrote: »

:eek: How can you even type that.

Yes? sorry WHAT?

When it comes to actual WRESTLERS, i agree with him. There is an embarassment of riches right now with the wrestling talent they have. Less characters of course but much better wrestling ability.

rob316

Tugboats wrote: »

Thats a terrible attitude you have.

Explain

Tugboats

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

You can say that but what hes saying is true.

In 20 years can you honestly see Reigns, Orton etc being spoken about in the same breath as we talk about Rock, Austin, Taker, HHH?

Right this minute, the only 3 i see getting close to that level are Cena, Bryan and Brock.

Give the talent a chance instead of taking the easy way out by getting cheap pops by wheeling out the old boys. All this comparing and harping back to the old days needs to stop. Its over move on

Caovyn Lineah

Tugboats wrote: »

Give the talent a chance instead of taking the easy way out by getting cheap pops by wheeling out the old boys. All this comparing and harping back to the old days needs to stop. Its over move on

I agree with you, it annoys me seeing Bryan and Ziggler being shat on basically.
Do you mind if i ask, when did you start watching wwe?

Moneymaker

rob316 wrote: »

They wheel them out because none of the current lot can match up to them, not even in the same league.

20 years from now will you remember Bryan, Reigns, Cena even Orton?
Guys like Rock, Austin, HHH, Taker, Y2J are pretty unforgettable in comparison.

All the characters today just seem overly scripted, they aren't given any creative freedom.

Yes, I will remember Daniel Bryan. I'll remember Brock Lesnar.

I'll remember Seth Rollins. I'll remember Bray Wyatt, Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, Randy Orton.

The rating doesn't matter. You don't need violence or gimmicks to have great wrestling. HBK vs Taker at WM25. Perfection.

The ending to the main event last night I won't forget anytime soon.

I'm as critical about the product as anyone but some people are seemingly not happy if they are not complaining.

I just wish they'd produce a product like that more often.

Tugboats

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

I agree with you, it annoys me seeing Bryan and Ziggler being shat on basically.
Do you mind if i ask, when did you start watching wwe?

Wrestlemania 4-18 was a wrestling fan. Stopped after that and only got back last year with the network

Caovyn Lineah

Tugboats wrote: »

Wrestlemania 4-18 was a wrestling fan. Stopped after that and only got back last year with the network

Ok, i was going to ask if you were only a recent watcher if you think that in 20 years they bring out Bryan would you pop?

B.A._Baracus

Don't know if it's true, but before the network launced it was said that WWE makes as much money as they did in the attitude era. So business is great for them.

That said, I miss the old days. Wrestling for me started to tank off after the Invasion angle in late 2001 / early 2002. Me and my brothers would watch it religiously for years each week but as time went by less and less. I also know so many others who said around this period was when they stopped watching as well.

Today's product is just missing something. It's hard to put a finger on it. Sure last nights mania was good. But the average ppv is not.

rob316

Moneymaker wrote: »

Yes, I will remember Daniel Bryan. I'll remember Brock Lesnar.

I'll remember Seth Rollins. I'll remember Bray Wyatt, Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, Randy Orton.

The rating doesn't matter. You don't need violence or gimmicks to have great wrestling. HBK vs Taker at WM25. Perfection.

The ending to the main event last night I won't forget anytime soon.

I'm as critical about the product as anyone but some people are seemingly not happy if they are complaining.

I just wish they'd produce a product like that more often.

Brock Lesnar is the best, honestly without him top of the card there would be nothing to draw. He is absolute box office but again he is born in another era.

Tugboats

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Ok, i was going to ask if you were only a recent watcher if you think that in 20 years they bring out Bryan would you pop?

I fully understand why they do but it doesn't make it right. Theres a misconception that wrestling is now for kids. That may be true at house shows and the TV shows but when it comes to big PPVs there is plenty of guys in their 30s who are buying the expensive tickets so they cater for them. These strange people in their 30s will chant NXT NXT but then wet themselves with excitement when Rock appears for 25minutes

Look at Kidd and Cesaro. They are potentially a great tag team and also very funny(from the backstage segments we've seen). How are people going to grow to like them when they are buried on a pre show?

Another missed opportunity was with Miz and Mizdow which will probably get settled at Extreme Rules or the PPV afterwards:rolleyes:

rovert

I miss Gangrel vs Godfather matches too.

*Mideon runs in after 3 minutes

MitchKoobski

Still, at least now when someone walks in while you're watching wrestling it's sponsored by Snickers or a film instead of lube and erectile dysfunction pills.

Loughc

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Still, at least now when someone walks in while you're watching wrestling it's sponsored by Snickers or a film instead of lube and erectile dysfunction pills.

Unless they walk in during a Miz segment!

Concannon7

I just want good characters the are involed in good feuds that has good storytelling that leads to good wrestling matches. Seems that's often too much to ask for.

Loughc

Galway_mad_bhoy wrote: »

I just want good characters the are involed in good feuds that has good storytelling that leads to good wrestling matches. Seems that's often too much to ask for.

Yea I'm pretty certain all Vince heard was Push Big Show, Turn Big Show, Fake Fire Big Show, make Roman Reigns look strong.

irs

An File wrote: »

Sergeant Slaughter, Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Doink, the Iron Sheik, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Hulk Hogan, Rick Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Pat Patterson, Gerald Briscoe, etc, have been getting called back for decades now. It's not a "WWE PG" phenomenon.

A lot of these were brought back as goofy novelty acts, they weren't dominating the biggest show of the year the way they have over the last decade. During the Attitude Era they couldn't bring back Hogan or Savage because they were in WCW so they had to live in the present. They couldn't have too much 80's nostalgia because the people that made that era were now competing against WWF. It would have been much harder for The Rock or Austin to become major stars if every Wrestlemania had been full of Hogan-Bret or Flair-HBK dream matches.

rob316

Couple of posters said the roster is stacked and has better actual wrestlers than ever. Where are they though? Is it a case of it been badly managed?

Can these guys put on a better match than Jericho, Angle, Benoit or HBK? 4 of those put on some of the best wrestling matches I have ever seen.

What is up with the tag team division? Why is it so poor that it was on the undercard of WM? The days of Dudleyz, Hardyz, E+C were amazing.

Tugboats

rob316 wrote: »

Couple of posters said the roster is stacked and has better actual wrestlers than ever. Where are they though? Is it a case of it been badly managed?

Can these guys put on a better match than Jericho, Angle, Benoit or HBK? 4 of those put on some of the best wrestling matches I have ever seen.

What is up with the tag team division? Why is it so poor that it was on the undercard of WM? The days of Dudleyz, Hardyz, E+C were amazing.

There was no time for the tag match to be on Mania because The Rock had to talk for HHH and Stephaine for 25 minutes.

A potentially classic match between Orton and Rollins only got 15 minutes because the HHH and the his buddies needed 27 minutes to embarrass Sting

Ken Shamrock

Everyone see's things differently and likes different things, do I think today's product is better than what is was 15 years ago? Awh Hell No!

But, there is a lot to be said for what they are doing, from a business standpoint it's never been better. From a wrestling standpoint it's at a fairly high level. Storylines are weak,characters aren't great, promo's are nearly non existent and the amount of advertisement's are soul destroying, not to mention all this cringy reality sh1te. But that's the way things are outside of WWE as well. Most people who hate the current product are guy's who were brought up on the 80's and 90's stuff like myself, from a different ERA.

Kids today 5-15 or whatever can relate to social media,reality tv shows etc because all that stuff is relevant to them in their ERA. Do I like it no? But I can understand and respect it. I personally don't watch the product anymore apart from WM and RR every year but saying they have sh1t wrestlers is scandalous, Bryan,Ziggler,Rollins,Ambrose,Cesaro etc, are they Michaels,Jericho,Benoit and Angle? No but again different time different style. Something a lot of people don't realize is how limited the wrestlers are today on what they can and can't do.

Anyway the point I'm trying to make Is I'm a 90's guy and I loved that time period and the early 00's I don't like today's product but I'm not naive enough to think things have just gotten worse, worse wrestlers, worse writers etc It's just the way things go. The product 10 years from now is going to be entirely different again and that will continue forever. I enjoyed WM, certainly not an 8/10 but it surprised me. As someone mentioned If they could produce that product every week It would be worth watching but then they wouldn't have the kids and the sponsors and those all important dollars. It is what It is.