Where to get a quick/inexpensive cert of compliance with building regs ??

Stressedms

Any advice welcomed, the buyers of our house have asked for the cert of compliance with building regulations for a beam in kitchen roof (we knocked two rooms into one). Deadline given end of the week-we need it ASAP. We didn't get one at the time and builder has long retired. Any speedy inexpensive recommendations welcome, thanks

BryanF

Don't spam threads

One is enough

BryanF

Google 'chartered structural engineer'
Or try here
http://www.engineersireland.ie/membership/search-members.aspx

Calahonda52

Stressedms wrote: »

Any advice welcomed, the buyers of our house have asked for the cert of compliance with building regulations for a beam in kitchen roof (we knocked two rooms into one). Deadline given end of the week-we need it ASAP. We didn't get one at the time and builder has long retired. Any speedy inexpensive recommendations welcome, thanks

If the beam is covered, e.g. with plasterboard etc then in the current climate you will find that most engineers will want at least some "breaking and entering :eek: " around the beam.
The remedial work will be at your expense and the cert alone will cost from euro 700 upwards.

My experience with this stuff is that it is over exuberant buyers and their lawyers looking for either an out or a price reduction.

The most recent demand for this I told my client to go to the underbidder in the queue and the original quy dropped the demand.
It really depends.
I presume its just a 3m or so beam and nothing dramatic like taking out a corner on a 3 story

Strolling Bones

Calahonda52 wrote: »

My experience with this stuff is that it is over exuberant buyers and their lawyers looking for either an out or a price reduction.

Who would like to buy a house only to later find out that a beam was undersized?

OP please keep us in the know as to how you get on.

Calahonda52

Strolling Bones wrote: »

Who would like to buy a house only to later find out that a beam was undersized?

I agree.
I am just sharing my experiences.

In some cases, especially in the current climate with forced sales, the bank will just make the seller pay for the disruptive survey.

Supertech

A Certificate of Compliance with Building Regulations seems excessive in the case of those works does it not ?

You can't give a CoC for compliance with one aspect of the regulations only, and there's no planning or commencement notice required for knocking two rooms into one regardless of when the works were carried out.

I'd have thought that that kind of issue should be addressed in the engineer's report they get carried out for themselves? What does your solicitor say ?

Strolling Bones

Supertech wrote: »

I'd have thought that that kind of issue should be addressed in the engineer's report they get carried out for themselves? What does your solicitor say ?

How would s/he know beam weight ? And if the type of bearing pads (if any). And how joists are carried off (if any) ?

Supertech

They won't, but it it's not a Certificate of Compliance issue either.

Strolling Bones

Supertech wrote: »

They won't, but it it's not a Certificate of Compliance issue either.

Engineer issues COC. Then walls crack and ceiling deflects. Becomes a very big client issue then whetever hairs one would like to split.

For in practice COC's become de facto consumer warranties

Supertech

Strolling Bones wrote: »

Engineer issues COC. Then walls crack and ceiling deflects. Becomes a very big client issue then whetever hairs one would like to split.

For in practice COC's become de facto consumer warranties

The truth of the matter is that without extensive opening up none of the issues you mention can be adequately addressed. I'm not suggesting that the purchasers Engineer issues a CoC, I'm suggesting he or she provides an opinion on the basis of whatever information is available to him or her. Pre purchase inspection reports address this kind of issue all the time, and I have never seen any opening up done. It is important that the OP knows what he or she is looking for, and in my opinion that isn't a Certificate of Compliance. Anything other than that is dependent on how badly they want or need a sale.

Strolling Bones

Stressedms wrote: »

the buyers of our house have asked for the cert of compliance ....Deadline given end of the week-we need it ASAP

Seems clear enough

Strolling Bones

Supertech wrote: »

Pre purchase inspection reports address this kind of issue all the time, and I have never seen any opening up done.

I have

Gumbo

Stressedms wrote: »

Any advice welcomed, the buyers of our house have asked for the cert of compliance with building regulations for a beam in kitchen roof (we knocked two rooms into one). Deadline given end of the week-we need it ASAP. We didn't get one at the time and builder has long retired. Any speedy inexpensive recommendations welcome, thanks

Who designed the beam in the first place?

Strolling Bones

Usually "the retired builder" is the one who "designed" the beam. "sure it will be standing when we are all pushing up daisys"

Drift

Strolling Bones wrote: »

For in practice COC's become de facto consumer warranties

For this reason you may find it hard to get a cert of compliance retrospectively.

Strolling Bones

The RIAI advises it's members not to issue COC's when one was not involved in the design and construction process.

Drift

I've seen a case where a structural survey specifically mentioned a potential problem with the foundation and the engineer who surveyed the house was sued many years later by the second next owner (who he never met and did not employ him) because .... get this ... a problem arose with the foundation!!!

sydthebeat

Drift wrote: »

I've seen a case where a structural survey specifically mentioned a potential problem with the foundation and the engineer who surveyed the house was sued many years later by the second next owner (who he never met and did not employ him) because .... get this ... a problem arose with the foundation!!!

doesnt surprise me in the least.

insurance is a scam as more often than not a spurious sueing leads to settlement by insurance companies rather than facing potential costs.... regardless of the stance of the defendant.

Strolling Bones

.... so the op wants someone to quickly and cheaply place their future PI premiums cost on the line for him....

All form an orderly queue

mickdw

I dont think its such a crazy request from the OP.
If its minor works and the beam is spanning around 3m or so and a few small inspection holes could be drilled to get a handle on the beam sizing , bearing, ceiling joist runs etc.
A survey report detailing inspection method, findings and opinion on suitability of the structure / works would cover this.
I think it should be possible to get someone to sort this at reasonable cost

Strolling Bones

Perhaps will the op will keep us in the loop

Drift

sydthebeat wrote: »

a spurious sueing leads to settlement by insurance companies rather than facing potential costs....

A huge problem in this country which is by no means limited to construction related insurance.

sydthebeat

Drift wrote: »

A huge problem in this country which is by no means limited to construction related insurance.

completely agreed

RORY O CONNOR

No engineer with any sense will certify a beam he has not designed & specified himself and inspected the installation of before closing up. There is no way to know the specs of the beam. Typically a 203mm by 203mm beam is used when removing a wall and such a beam comes in many guises in terms of Kg/m which is what gives it the strength and load bearing capacity. Simply looking at it there is no way to know how many Kg/m the beam is so there is no way to know if it is strong enough. Many builders working without the back up of an engineer put in beams that are the wrong spec. They choose one based on its price and lighter weight for ease of lifting into place. They also don't provide an adequate level of support for the beam for loading transfer.

mickdw

I wouldnt agree with that at all.
A small exploration will quickly get at the edge of the beam and the thickness of the steel will very clearly tell all as to what is installed.
So using your own example, of a 203 x 203 beam, the flange thickness will vary from 11mm for a '46' to over 20 mm for the '86' weight beam with measurable differences between all weights.
If I identified a beam was at 200 high approx, was measuring 100mm approx to the Web and the edge of the flange was 11mm, I would be pretty confident that it was a 203 x 203 x 46.
similar exploration could determine pad stone locations, length of bearing etc. Explorations would also establish the loadings on the beam from overhead walls, ceilings etc.

RORY O CONNOR

mickdw wrote: »

I wouldnt agree with that at all.
A small exploration will quickly get at the edge of the beam and the thickness of the steel will very clearly tell all as to what is installed.
So using your own example, of a 203 x 203 beam, the flange thickness will vary from 11mm for a '46' to over 20 mm for the '86' weight beam with measurable differences between all weights.
If I identified a beam was at 200 high approx, was measuring 100mm approx to the Web and the edge of the flange was 11mm, I would be pretty confident that it was a 203 x 203 x 46.
similar exploration could determine pad stone locations, length of bearing etc. Explorations would also establish the loadings on the beam from overhead walls, ceilings etc.

Well feel free to certify that beam then. I wouldn't!

Strolling Bones

The op's "deadline" is expired now.
I wonder how quickly and cheaply s/he obtained the cert ?