cheaper loans

darkpagandeath

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0323/689116-farm-investments/

What's going to happen to this money ? Shops and alike have closed in the country. But that's mostly due to sustainability of custom, I.e. you don't need 5 shops in on area where one is only able to stay open. I'm all for investment but will this not create a mini bubble in areas opening business's that are not sustainable.

snubbleste

Wha?
More farm investment = better more efficient produce to export = more moolah in rural areas to build more ghost estates and flash 4x4s

Sh1tbag OToole

Fun Fact: A portion of the agricultural budget is siphoned off into the Irish Secret Service

tomwaterford

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Fun Fact: A portion of the agricultural budget is siphoned off into the Irish Secret Service

How in the name of all is good do you know this???

wendell borton

tomwaterford wrote: »

How in the name of all is good do you know this???

shhh...it's a secret.

john the one

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Irish Secret Service

The what?

fleet_admiral

john the one wrote: »

The what?

G2

The_Pretender

darkpagandeath wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0323/689116-farm-investments/

What's going to happen to this money ? Shops and alike have closed in the country. But that's mostly due to sustainability of custom, I.e. you don't need 5 shops in on area where one is only able to stay open. I'm all for investment but will this not create a mini bubble in areas opening business's that are not sustainable.

Are you talking about a bubble in the farming sector?

This funding can make farming more efficient; bigger parlours means more cows milked.

wendell borton

Agriculture is this countries biggest sector that makes the real mullah that keeps the economy ticking over. Investment is needed if we are going to compete in the upcoming open markets.

darkpagandeath

The_Pretender wrote: »

Are you talking about a bubble in the farming sector?

This funding can make farming more efficient; bigger parlours means more cows milked.

wendell borton wrote: »

Agriculture is this countries biggest sector that makes the real mullah that keeps the economy ticking over. Investment is needed if we are going to compete in the upcoming open markets.

I was more talking about stuff being siphoned off for developing shops and that in the area. Some woman was on the news going on about it, As I said good investment is fine. Investing in loads of shops in an area that cant support it is not.

wendell borton

The shops would be co-ops providing a service to the community.

darkpagandeath

wendell borton wrote: »

The shops would be co-ops providing a service to the community.

You mean like a normal shop ? If a normal shop cannot operate in the are that tells you something does it not.

Stinicker

What needs to happen is a special Monopoly tax be placed on Tesco to get this scourge of a retailer out of Ireland for good.

tomwaterford

The_Pretender wrote: »

Are you talking about a bubble in the farming sector?

This funding can make farming more efficient; bigger parlours means more cows milked.

Well all this big dairy expansion is not going to end well....(common sense would tell you that)

Do you believe it smart of the government to be backing/promoting more life into this sector which is expanding at a frightening pace??

Kevin McCloud

Bigger tractors needed also, 200hp at least.

darkpagandeath

tomwaterford wrote: »

Well all this big dairy expansion is not going to end well....(common sense would tell you that)

Do you believe it smart of the government to be backing/promoting more life into this sector which is expanding at a frightening pace??

Think I have seen this before, Cant think where or what country.... :pac:

Sh1tbag OToole

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Bigger tractors needed also, 200hp at least.

Give me a yoke with plenty of poke and a can of aesy start

The_Pretender

tomwaterford wrote: »

Well all this big dairy expansion is not going to end well....(common sense would tell you that)

Do you believe it smart of the government to be backing/promoting more life into this sector which is expanding at a frightening pace??

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Think I have seen this before, Cant think where or what country.... :pac:

Except there is a HUGE difference between the bust and this farming boom. Take a dairy farmer farming 120 acres; chances are they are sitting on an asset worth €1.2+ million, so I can't see a loan to buy a new tractor is going to be worth anywhere near that amount.

It's nothing like the housing boom, as land prices aren't going to cut by 50%+ in the space of a year or two. If the loan can't be paid, the farmer sells some/all of his/her assets. Once the loans are secured then where is the problem?

darkpagandeath

The_Pretender wrote: »

Except there is a HUGE difference between the bust and this farming boom. Take a dairy farmer farming 120 acres; chances are they are sitting on an asset worth €1.2+ million, so I can't see a loan to buy a new tractor is going to be worth anywhere near that amount.

It's nothing like the housing boom, as land prices aren't going to cut by 50%+ in the space of a year or two. If the loan can't be paid, the farmer sells some/all of his/her assets. Once the loans are secured then where is the problem?

Why can't they get loans the normal way ? This seems like giving people semi secured loans that can't get them the traditional way. Which is odd tbh as the farming sector pretty much is expanding at a stupidly fast pace. So if it's expanding they already have access to credit or savings. The news report I saw on RTE was focused on local shops, Again if a village cannot sustain 1 shop on it's own is there a need to subsidise one that will never work out. I'm all for creating jobs in the Country but they really need to be careful and not waste and squander the money.

SEPT 23 1989

I presume the psychopaths will want the deeds to the family farm before a cent is lent?

I really hope the farming community has learned from other sectors of business over the last 10 years not to deal with these vampires

expand using cash this is another bubble

darkpagandeath

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I presume the psychopaths will want the deeds to the family farm before a cent is lent?

I really hope the farming community has learned from other sectors of business over the last 10 years not to deal with these vampires

expand using cash this is another bubble

This was going around my head as well, Seems wanting to give them low cost loans until they get into trouble and milk every cent out of them. But it can't be that can it ?

SEPT 23 1989

darkpagandeath wrote: »

This was going around my head as well, Seems wanting to give them low cost loans until they get into trouble and milk every cent out of them. But it can't be that can it ?

I dont know any farmers but i presume they are all getting phonecalls from banks trying to push money on them like they did with other businesses before the crash

tomwaterford

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I dont know any farmers but i presume they are all getting phonecalls from banks trying to push money on them like they did with other businesses before the crash

They approached us here (small enough farm...part time) with a loan to convert to dairy and offered e400K over 15 years....effectively paying back e800K .....I know of many farms roughly my size that are in dairy and noway in hell are they making enough to pay back that kind of money....it's just pure and utter greed that's driving this

I think a stop should be put to this....as do taxpayers want to bailing out banks again.....it is a disgrace government policy in this area....for an economy that's supposedly recovering....why heap money and aim policy at expanding a sector that's if not a bubble....certainly bordering on one....it is not sustainable the amounts being lent out to small enough farms

Atlantic Dawn

A year from now the milk prices will have collapsed and only massively industrialized farms will be able to produce milk for any level of profit so I suppose the small farmer needs to industrialise on a massive scale to turn a profit. The scale needed would be the same as your local village shop taking out a couple of million loan to build a Walmart size shop in the middle of the village.

SEPT 23 1989

tomwaterford wrote: »

I think a stop should be put to this....as do taxpayers want to bailing out banks again.....it is a disgrace government policy in this area....for an economy that's supposedly recovering....why heap money and aim policy at expanding a sector that's if not a bubble....certainly bordering on one....it is not sustainable the amounts being lent out to small enough farms

Central bank saying absolutely nothing about this

nothing learned

The_Pretender

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why can't they get loans the normal way ?This seems like giving people semi secured loans that can't get them the traditional way.

They can get them the traditional way. Perhaps this is to encourage them to invest in their business.

Which is odd tbh as the farming sector pretty much is expanding at a stupidly fast pace.

It's exapanding at such a fast pace because it has been held artificially low! When the milk quota is abolished then farmers can actually work at full capacity, instead of Ireland getting fined millions every year for producing more than they are sposed to.

So if it's expanding they already have access to credit or savings. The news report I saw on RTE was focused on local shops, Again if a village cannot sustain 1 shop on it's own is there a need to subsidise one that will never work out.

Can't comment on that as I didn't see it on RTE; but when milk production goes up, so does the labour involved and so more jobs created.

I'm all for creating jobs in the Country but they really need to be careful and not waste and squander the money.

Dairy is something Ireland does very well, and with 85% of our milk production being exported, I'd say it's a good place to invest in.

tomwaterford

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Central bank saying absolutely nothing about this

nothing learned

If people knew the half of what us being lent on flimsy enough payment plans and over priced collorateral there would be uproar

It's like this....it suits the banks to lend to farmers as they gave high assets to loan ratio and looks to make the banks loan books look healthy

Do farmers really think when things will get right that banks won't move quick to sell there farms???

Also do people really genuinely believe Farmland in Ireland is worth e10K an acre??

2Bints1Joe

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Fun Fact: A portion of the agricultural budget is siphoned off into the Irish Secret Service

How long have you been waiting to use this little nugget of information?

wendell borton

Agriculture is an export business that brings in foreign cash, that's the only thing that's going to get the country of the current economic mess. The celtic tiger was a buble because we were borrowing foreign cash to buy overinflated houses.

Currently there is a quota system that restricts agricultural production in Europe, but its about to end. There's also the opening up of the USA and Chinese markets were also the top exporters to numerous other countries.
All in all there a big chance coming, don't know if it will be good thing, but investment is needed.

darkpagandeath

wendell borton wrote: »

Agriculture is an export business that brings in foreign cash, that's the only thing that's going to get the country of the current economic mess. The celtic tiger was a buble because we were borrowing foreign cash to buy overinflated houses.

Currently there is a quota system that restricts agricultural production in Europe, but its about to end. There's also the opening up of the USA and Chinese markets were also the top exporters to numerous other countries.
All in all there a big chance coming, don't know if it will be good thing, but investment is needed.

Yeah lets heavily invest in one sector what could possibly go wrong.

tomwaterford

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yeah lets heavily invest in one sector what could possibly go wrong.

Particularly a low profit margin sector :pac:

wendell borton

tomwaterford wrote: »

Particularly a low profit margin sector :pac:

Not really, Irish ag products are at the higher end of a growing market. There's also secondary industries such as food processing and ingredients to be considered.

tomwaterford

wendell borton wrote: »

Not really, Irish ag products are at the higher end of a growing market. There's also secondary industries such as food processing and ingredients to be considered.

Yes really....dairying aside (protected industry which will inevitably lead to lower margins after quotas go)

Farming is relatively low margin....your average suckler cow makes approx e300 -400 profit at best...,and the average suckler herd is 15cows in Ireland....not earth shattering profitability there


Even the processing is not hugely profitable.....I did recall reading profit and turnover figures of a small enough processor before.....turn over was like e180million and profit e2million at the time....

Though that is a small processes not the man affectionately known as the beef Barron who has the rights to process the waste/offal and turns a big margin on this....but afaik his accounts aren't ever released...that I know of

Guy:Incognito

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Fun Fact: A portion of the agricultural budget is siphoned off into the Irish Secret Service

It's where their toilet roll budget comes from, isnt it?

darkpagandeath

wendell borton wrote: »

Not really, Irish ag products are at the higher end of a growing market. There's also secondary industries such as food processing and ingredients to be considered.

If farming is so profitable why are farmers always on about how little they get for their produce and the supermarkets are making the money ?

WoollyRedHat

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Fun Fact: A portion of the agricultural budget is siphoned off into the Irish Secret Service

wendell borton wrote: »

shhh...it's a secret.

Well not anymore. Now we're going to have to kill him... no no wait, that's the last option in the secret service manual.

Nothing to see here folks, this man is clearly nsane, he's a plant, there's not a grain of truth to these rumours.

darkpagandeath

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0401/691242-milk-quotas/

And it Begins....

SEPT 23 1989

darkpagandeath wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0401/691242-milk-quotas/

And it Begins....

not going to end well

darkpagandeath

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

not going to end well

Aye, News is all over fastest growing sector for the next 10 years... Where did I here that before. :mad:

darkpagandeath

News is getting cringe "First time in a generation" “Fastest growing dairy producing country in the world” "shackles lifted" No one's alarm bells going off it seems.

The_Pretender

Production was kept artificially low for over thirty years!

I didn't realise there was a quota on property development before the boom kicked off