Louis Theroux Doc: Not guilty by reason of insanity

The Black Oil

On BBC 2 at 9pm tomorrow night. As usual, it's unlikely to be easy viewing, but Louis usually makes good docs.

'Not guilty by reason of insanity' seems like one of those verdicts that's a little hard to figure out, at times. That could simply be down to the media coverage and that the illness not being disclosed. I'm interested to see, if shown, how this is determined in court and how people are subsequently treated. Psychosis and schizophrenia are mentioned in the article below.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31962182

Valmont

'Should the Insanity Defence be Abolished?' is a very good debate on the subject. My problem with it is the absolute lack of objectivity involved. Given the serious problems about demonstrating that somebody is currently suffering from a mental illness, it is nigh-on impossible to even approach the question of whether they were being controlled by an illness which leaves no physical trace at some point in the past.

This is a transcript of the court case of Darlin June Cromer, a woman accused of murdering a young black boy. She plead insanity and the prosecution called Thomas Szasz to the stand as a rebuttal witness to argue that Cromer was not only responsible for the act but that the idea of 'expert psychiatric testimony' is nonsense. He argues that he didn't need to even examine Ms. Cromer because no examination can tell you the mental state of a person six months previously. I suppose all of this is tied up with the problems of the biomedical model of mental illness but it's an interesting issue nonetheless. I'm looking forward to Louis Theroux's show.

The Black Oil

Parts of it were sad, very sad. It's hard to single any one of them out, but I thought Judith's denial was heartbreaking.

Overall, a good first part. Thought some of the clinicians were at times a little unsure of being on camera, or perhaps unused to hearing questions from an outsider. Some tough calls to make, no doubt.

marialouise

The Black Oil wrote: »

Parts of it were sad, very sad. It's hard to single any one of them out, but I thought Judith's denial was heartbreaking.

I thought so too. And when he said that his time there showed him the limitations of medicine, that really broke my heart. They have the absolute best care with some incredibly experienced professionals, but they are just, insane. And nothing can help them.

The Black Oil

Part 2 is on tonight, BBC2 9pm.

The Black Oil

Sad and difficult stories again. All with their own complexities. Charles who didn't trust lawyers and felt they enabled or raped infants. The chap who felt his mother was possessed by the devil and subsequently killed her. He couldn't get to a place where she wasn't what he believed. Dean, who sexually assaulted his mother. She was very composed given what happened.

We only had a glimpse of the guy arrested for child abuse images on his computer, but this brief chat, along with the others, made me wonder about the extent to which some patients construct their own narratives due to their illnesses.

Think Louis was unsettled, at times.

Valmont

I just got around to watching part one and there were a number of things which really struck me. I know many people will look at the inmates and their strange behaviours and take them as evidence of their insanity but I know that most of the weird stuff like the totally flat affect, muscle twitching, and repetitive movements are all side effects of the anti-psychotics. I'm aware of the drugs in these institutions but seeing it first hand was unsettling. Anti-psychotics are nasty, powerful drugs. I had to laugh when Louis asked the psychologist 'what does that [schizophrenia] really mean though?' and the psychologist bumbled through some description of 'disorganised thoughts'. I think the problems with psychiatric classification were very visible whenever anyone was asked what they 'had': 'schizo-affective with some bipolar' was one answer!

I also noticed some troubling logic practised by the lead psychiatrist. At one point she explained that an old lady's refusal to accept she had a mental illness was 'part' of her schizophrenia and explained that there was 'no doubt' about the validity of the diagnosis. This put me in mind of David Rosenhan's experiment 'On being sane in insane places'.

I can put these criticisms aside because ultimately these people are prisoners serving time. As they mentioned, the judge decides who gets to leave, not the psychiatrists or psychologists. And taking the place on face value, it could be argued that it is better than prison. Although now that I think of it I would take prison and all that entails over being forced to take anti-psychotics.

Torakx

I think it is more profitable for everyone involved(apart from the prisoner), to medicate and imprison, instead of really trying to cure or help them.
Or are "insane" people immune to coercion and propaganda?
Isn't every act, conscious or unconscious, a result of thinking based on certain perceptions.

I am wondering now if that is the reason given for having no way to deal with it. That the persons abilities to change their perspective is not functioning.
Which I guess would then lead me to investigate the biological issues found in the field of neuroscience.
Can they prove these people are insane? I mean with FMRI or regular MRI?
If all the parts are functioning and the connections are there, it may be perspective or a physical condition not related to the brain itself, but more a symptom.
I come from having an experience with a common physical condition, which has been known to cause psychotic behaviour in cases where medication for mental illness is concerned, at least from people I know(2nd hand stories) and research online...ok i was a fair bit crazy as well whieon antidepressant and anxiety medication, while having this condition. I didn't go psychotic or tooirrational, because i stopped and found how to recover for the most part.

I feel compelled for these reason, to question the validity of the whole process that is covered in that program. Which I have yet to search out. I hope to watch it soon. I don't have a tv, so it will need to be found online.

Redmen Rafalution

As usual with Louis Theroux, a very good documentary.

I would love to see a follow-up in a year or two. It would be interesting to see what progress the patients have made, if any.

The Black Oil

There was little insight into medications alright. I don't know much about the role of anti-psychotics in terms of stabilising mood and thought patterns.

iirc, we didn't see any full time level 1 patients and I'd imagine their difficulties might be rather acute. Some of the patients who had progressed through the levels had very large case files, about the thickness of a few phone directories. You'd hope the assessments would be pretty thorough. A lot of issues seem to start in childhood or adolescence and you'd wonder what the outcomes might be if some interventions were put in place sooner around this time.

I wonder how much footage didn't make it into the documentary.