Tom Ince

weldoninhio

Is Paul Ince still advising his son?? He seems to be making a mess of his career so far. Walking out on Liverpool, stringing Cardiff along on an £8m deal then pulling out at the last minute, claiming Milan wanted to sign him, but opting for Hull, now out on his second loan in the championship. Refusing to play for England U21s. And that's just off the top of my head.

Oranage2

He has come out with some crazy career choices but turning down England's U21 isn't one.

Kerrigooney

Tom Ince seems to think he's a hell of a lot better than he actually is.

5starpool

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Tom Ince seems to think he's a hell of a lot better than he actually is.

I'm at a loss as to where he got these notions from.

Harry Palmr

A potentially fine career is being (has been?) pissed away.

LuckyLloyd

Meh, add him to the pile of players who didn't pan out for whatever reason. Don't care - plenty more 'next big things' coming through every year.

Harry Palmr

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, add him to the pile of players who didn't pan out for whatever reason. Don't care - plenty more 'next big things' coming through every year.

Sell Sterling then?

LuckyLloyd

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Sell Sterling then?

Sterling HAS panned out, he's more than the 'next big thing' at this point, which is great!

weldoninhio

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Sterling HAS panned out, he's more than the 'next big thing' at this point, which is great!

What?!? He's done nothing in his career to class him as established. He goes to City or Chelsea and he'll be another Scott Sinclair. On the bench for a few seasons, then rock up at Villa or WBA

weldoninhio

Oranage2 wrote: »

He has come out with some crazy career choices but turning down England's U21 isn't one.

It's not the fact that he turned them down, it's the manner in which he does these things. Southgate himself has said that this may jeopardise his chances at senior level.

He's annoyed a lot of people in his short career thus far. He's shown no commitment to any club he's been at. And he has an opinion of himself that Messi would be embarrassed to have.

LuckyLloyd

weldoninhio wrote: »

What?!? He's done nothing in his career to class him as established. He goes to City or Chelsea and he'll be another Scott Sinclair. On the bench for a few seasons, then rock up at Villa or WBA

Well he's definitely established as a viable Premiership player. There's a world between him and Ince; or Giles Barnes or Sean Thornton or whoever the **** ever was young and highly projected into the future at one point before not panning out at the top level.

There is also a chasm between Arjen Robben and Sterling of course, but he's only 20...

weldoninhio

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well he's definitely established as a viable Premiership player. There's a world between him and Ince; or Giles Barnes or Sean Thornton or whoever the **** ever was young and highly projected into the future at one point before not panning out at the top level.

There is also a chasm between Arjen Robben and Sterling of course, but he's only 20...

Michael Ricketts, Danny Catematteri, Amr Zaki and on and on and on were all viable Premiership players. Sterling has had less than 100 games.

LuckyLloyd

weldoninhio wrote: »

Michael Ricketts, Danny Catematteri, Amr Zaki and on and on and on were all viable Premiership players. Sterling has had less than 100 games.

Ah come on man, you can see the difference between what Sterling has produced to date and those players surely?

Magico Gonzalez

weldoninhio wrote: »

What?!? He's done nothing in his career to class him as established. He goes to City or Chelsea and he'll be another Scott Sinclair. On the bench for a few seasons, then rock up at Villa or WBA

Sure.

Established is the new World Class now is it? Meaningless throwaway term to be argued over ad inifinitum. Great.

Sterling played a big part in Liverpool's good finish last year. He had a decent world cup, he is playing well in a Liverpool team currently on an excellent run of form. 10 goals as a 19 year old playing out wide and behind the striker and 10 this season (to which I'm sure he'll add a few more) is not to bad for a young lad.

If you could be objective for one second I think you could probably view his last few seasons in a more positive light. I'm not bestowing greatness on him but really, your claims just make you look one eyed, bent out of shape for your dislike of a club rather than an intelligent fan of the game.

I don't hold out any hope of that however. Him winding up at WBA is silly, nothing more than that. Doesnt merit being taken seriously.

ps...your trite list of players that didn't "make it" doesn't include any who distinguished themselves in a poor world cup side, played a major role in a team which challenged for the league and continued to play a very important role in a team competing for a champs league spot. Do try and be slightly objective. Slightly like.

Tom Ince however continues to find his level. He is where he deserves to be.

weldoninhio

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ah come on man, you can see the difference between what Sterling has produced to date and those players surely?

Michael Ricketts scored over 15 goals in his first season in the Premiership.

Sterling has done the square root of 0.

He is quick, but so are lots of people. He doesn't seem to have developed a footballing brain yet. Walcott is 26 and is only starting to use his head. There's nothing to say that Sterling will ever start using his.

He's young and plays for England, hence the hype. Pedro, Isco and potentially Gnabry are all players in his position who are/were better than him at his age. They aren't as hyped as Sterling because they dont play for England.

Beefy78

You can't compare Michael Ricketts with Raheem Sterling. Ricketts was a nobody who suddenly had a single season where he looked a player. Sterling was extremely well-known in football circles for three or four years before he made his debut. He's hyped because he's a class above other players of his age-range in England and has been for a very long time.

Scott Sinclair was fairly highly regarded as a kid at Chelsea but nothing like to the same degree.

Harry Palmr

weldoninhio wrote: »

Michael Ricketts scored over 15 goals in his first season in the Premiership.

Sterling has done the square root of 0.

He is quick, but so are lots of people. He doesn't seem to have developed a footballing brain yet. Walcott is 26 and is only starting to use his head. There's nothing to say that Sterling will ever start using his.

He's young and plays for England, hence the hype. Pedro, Isco and potentially Gnabry are all players in his position who are/were better than him at his age. They aren't as hyped as Sterling because they dont play for England.

Sterling has scored 22 senior goals for Liverpool - hardly nothing. Are you looking for a fight here?! :mad: :pac: ("he's not worth it Darren!")

weldoninhio

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Sterling has scored 22 senior goals for Liverpool - hardly nothing. Are you looking for a fight here?! :mad: :pac: ("he's not worth it Darren!")

He has 17 goals, over 2.5 seasons. I'm not looking for a fight. I'm just stating that he is still nothing more than a prospect. With this contract dispute his career is coming to a crossroads.

Where he goes from here will determine if he makes it, or he's another English never-was. Ince, to keep this on topic, seems to have decided, through bad decision making, that he's going the never-was route.

Harry Palmr

22 goals - league and Cups.

MightyMandarin

weldoninhio wrote: »

He's young and plays for England, hence the hype. Pedro, Isco and potentially Gnabry are all players in his position who are/were better than him at his age. They aren't as hyped as Sterling because they dont play for England.

Gnabry isn't as hyped because he's not half as good as Sterling is and he doesn't even start for Arsenal. Sterling is already better than Walcott and Chamberlain, and they're ahead of Gnabry in the pecking order.

weldoninhio

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Gnabry isn't as hyped because he's not half as good as Sterling is and he doesn't even start for Arsenal. Sterling is already better than Walcott and Chamberlain, and they're ahead of Gnabry in the pecking order.

Liverpool fan??

MightyMandarin

weldoninhio wrote: »

Liverpool fan??

And what's your point? Sterling has 10 goals this season. That's 3 more than Chamberlain and Walcott combined. Gnabry also has 3 goals in his entire Arsenal career, Sterling has 22.

Trond

So Tom Ince then......

Presume the Milan clubs are circling again? :rolleyes:

Beefy78

Walcott and Chamberlain are both very different players. Plus Theo has been injured. These aren't fair comparisons.

Walcott is England's best player, IMO, but Sterling is streets ahead of where he was at this age.

Yeah sorry back on topic. I don't think the U21 snub is the end of the World. Ince is having a cracking spell at Derby and if he continues in that form then he'll be back on track as a player.

Pro. F

Sterling is an excellent player already. Lol at the mental gymnastics people put themselves through trying to deny that.

zAbbo

weldoninhio wrote: »

He's young and plays for England, hence the hype. Pedro, Isco and potentially Gnabry are all players in his position who are/were better than him at his age. They aren't as hyped as Sterling because they dont play for England.

Pedro at the same age had played 16 times for Barcelona, and had to wait another 2 years before getting an International cap.

Sterling is a rarity to have played that many games for club and country so young, and in both cases - a key player.

Corholio

Nothing story. Eric Dier did the same thing last year to establish himself at Spurs and there was no negative to it and is back being considered now. I suspect this is the same, even if Ince will be too old after this summer. Not every 'doesnt want to be considered' story has to mean its a bust up or ending of anything.

RayCon

Daddy's on the sauce again !!

weldoninhio

MightyMandarin wrote: »

And what's your point? Sterling has 10 goals this season. That's 3 more than Chamberlain and Walcott combined. Gnabry also has 3 goals in his entire Arsenal career, Sterling has 22.

Walcott has been injured most of the season and has a 1:4 goal:games ratio.

Same as Sterling. Walcott has also played on the wing in the 8 games he's played. Sterling had been playing up front in Sturridges absence.

weldoninhio

zAbbo wrote: »

Pedro at the same age had played 16 times for Barcelona, and had to wait another 2 years before getting an International cap.

Sterling is a rarity to have played that many games for club and country so young, and in both cases - a key player.

Peter had quite a more difficult team to get into both domestically and internationally.

I'm not saying that Sterling is a terrible player or anything, just that he is still a prospect. Nothing more nothing less.

Utopia Parkway

weldoninhio wrote: »

What?!? He's done nothing in his career to class him as established.

He's established in the Liverpool team and established himself in the England team. Obviously he's still young but he's past the "hot prospect" stage by now.

You could call Jordon Ibe a prospect as he only has a small handful of games played at the top level.

Pro. F

weldoninhio wrote: »

Peter had quite a more difficult team to get into both domestically and internationally.

I'm not saying that Sterling is a terrible player or anything, just that he is still a prospect. Nothing more nothing less.

Can you name some 20 year old winger types who are currently more than just prospects in your eyes?

Lucas Hood

He is 23 maybe he feels there is nothing to gain playing with the u21s.

Utopia Parkway

Tom Ince seems a very good player at championship level. Thought he would have made more of an impact at Hull to be honest.

~Rebel~

weldoninhio wrote: »

He's young and plays for England, hence the hype. Pedro, Isco and potentially Gnabry are all players in his position who are/were better than him at his age. They aren't as hyped as Sterling because they dont play for England.

zAbbo wrote: »

Pedro at the same age had played 16 times for Barcelona, and had to wait another 2 years before getting an International cap.

Sterling is a rarity to have played that many games for club and country so young, and in both cases - a key player.

weldoninhio wrote: »

Pedro had quite a more difficult team to get into both domestically and internationally.

You can't have it both ways. Sterling has obviously achieved far more already than Pedro had at the same age.
Even Isco (one of the best young players in the world) only had 33 starts (plus 9 sub appearances) with 6 goals at the same age.

To be honest, the fact that these are the guys you're even picking to compare him to says something about Sterling.
As for your comments on him only having pace with no brain - his brain is what sets him apart from other pacey youth players.
He's obviously quite a cut above your average "will he, won't he" player.

As for Tom Ince, he's still young, there's still time for him to develop more. I think being a top championship player will be his level though - he always seems too selfish for a premiership team. You just can't afford those kinds of players if your a lower premiership side, you need guys who have the work rate and team ethic. He's just not good enough to be a luxury at the top level.

weldoninhio

~Rebel~ wrote: »

You can't have it both ways. Sterling has obviously achieved far more already than Pedro had at the same age.
Even Isco (one of the best young players in the world) only had 33 starts (plus 9 sub appearances) with 6 goals at the same age.

To be honest, the fact that these are the guys you're even picking to compare him to says something about Sterling.
As for your comments on him only having pace with no brain - his brain is what sets him apart from other pacey youth players.
He's obviously quite a cut above your average "will he, won't he" player.

As for Tom Ince, he's still young, there's still time for him to develop more. I think being a top championship player will be his level though - he always seems too selfish for a premiership team. You just can't afford those kinds of players if your a lower premiership side, you need guys who have the work rate and team ethic. He's just not good enough to be a luxury at the top level.

Sorry, but Sterling has "achieved" nothing. He's played a few, less than 100, first team games in a very small Liverpool squad. He's looked ok, but hardly set the world alight.

He's attitude is more than questionable, going nightclubbing til 3am, the day after claiming he was "too tired" to play for England. His contract demands at the minute are also quite breath-taking for someone his age/experience

Like SWP before him, he's an English winger with potential. Ince won't ever make his potential until he ditches his dad and gets his head down.

Pro. F

weldoninhio wrote: »

Sorry, but Sterling has "achieved" nothing. He's played a few, less than 100, first team games in a very small Liverpool squad. He's looked ok, but hardly set the world alight.

He's attitude is more than questionable, going nightclubbing til 3am, the day after claiming he was "too tired" to play for England. His contract demands at the minute are also quite breath-taking for someone his age/experience

Like SWP before him, he's an English winger with potential. Ince won't ever make his potential until he ditches his dad and gets his head down.

How many 20 year old winger types are there around now that you would class as having established themselves?

MightyMandarin

weldoninhio wrote: »

Sorry, but Sterling has "achieved" nothing. He's played a few, less than 100, first team games in a very small Liverpool squad. He's looked ok, but hardly set the world alight.

He's attitude is more than questionable, going nightclubbing til 3am, the day after claiming he was "too tired" to play for England. His contract demands at the minute are also quite breath-taking for someone his age/experience.

I hope that chip on your shoulder isn't too heavy because you really seem to have it in for the lad. He's barely 20 years old yet he's a starter for England and one of Liverpool's most important players. Give me the name of any player who's had that much responsibility at such a young age. Even the likes of Messi and Ronaldo didn't have as much pressure when they were 20.

Saipanne

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I hope that chip on your shoulder isn't too heavy because you really seem to have it in for the lad. He's barely 20 years old yet he's a starter for England and one of Liverpool's most important players. Give me the name of any player who's had that much responsibility at such a young age. Even the likes of Messi and Ronaldo didn't have as much pressure when they were 20.

Says a lot for Liverpool and England, doesn't it?

:-(

CSF

Some serious nonsense being posted here. Sterling is clearly one of the better Premier League players at the moment, he's inconsistent, and should be looking to stay at Liverpool and develop, rather than chase a move he wouldn't be ready for, but you'd expect no more from a lad his age. That's nearly as high a level as you can expect to reach at that age and its a level much higher than 'hot prospect'.

The lad is one of the best players at a Champions League team from the Premier League. It's not the same as being one of the best players at Bayern, Barca or PSG, but it'll do.

Comparisons with Tom Ince, Scott Sinclair, Serge Gnabry, Michael Ricketts etc are nonsense and I've no idea why he's even being discussed in this thread. The best club any of them established themselves at, never mind be one of the best players was Swansea. Nonsense posting.

MightyMandarin

Saipanne wrote: »

Says a lot for Liverpool and England, doesn't it?

:-(

How? Sterling is still a top talent, and without doubt one of the best players in Europe under 21 years old.

weldoninhio

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I hope that chip on your shoulder isn't too heavy because you really seem to have it in for the lad. He's barely 20 years old yet he's a starter for England and one of Liverpool's most important players. Give me the name of any player who's had that much responsibility at such a young age. Even the likes of Messi and Ronaldo didn't have as much pressure when they were 20.

Take the red-tinted glasses off, it's getting laughable. By 20, Messi had scored a hattrick in El Clasico. By 21 Messi had been nominated for the Balon D'Or and FIFA world player of the year.

No pressure though. Hahahaha

weldoninhio

CSF wrote: »

Some serious nonsense being posted here. Sterling is clearly one of the better Premier League players at the moment, he's inconsistent, and should be looking to stay at Liverpool and develop, rather than chase a move he wouldn't be ready for, but you'd expect no more from a lad his age. That's nearly as high a level as you can expect to reach at that age and its a level much higher than 'hot prospect'.

The lad is one of the best players at a Champions League team from the Premier League. It's not the same as being one of the best players at Bayern, Barca or PSG, but it'll do.

Comparisons with Tom Ince, Scott Sinclair, Serge Gnabry, Michael Ricketts etc are nonsense and I've no idea why he's even being discussed in this thread. The best club any of them established themselves at, never mind be one of the best players was Swansea. Nonsense posting.

Champs Lge team?? They've been in it once since he signed. Serious Anfield tinted glasses being worn in this thread.

MightyMandarin

weldoninhio wrote: »

Take the red-tinted glasses off, it's getting laughable. By 20, Messi had scored a hattrick in El Clasico. By 21 Messi had been nominated for the Balon D'Or and FIFA world player of the year.

No pressure though. Hahahaha

But Messi didn't have the weight of a nation on him at that age. Sterling was England's biggest hope last summer, Sky Sports and BBC wouldn't shut up about how important he was to the team. He even took some of the limelight off Rooney which hadn't happened since Euro '04.

Sterling mightn't reach the heights of Ronaldo or Messi, but then again, 5 years ago people would've thought you were mad if you said Bale would go to Madrid for €100m. I'm not saying Sterling will be as good as them, but at the moment, I can't think of a better player under 21 in Europe.

weldoninhio

MightyMandarin wrote: »

But Messi didn't have the weight of a nation on him at that age. Sterling was England's biggest hope last summer, Sky Sports and BBC wouldn't shut up about how important he was to the team. He even took some of the limelight off Rooney which hadn't happened since Euro '04.

Sterling mightn't reach the heights of Ronaldo or Messi, but then again, 5 years ago people would've thought you were mad if you said Bale would go to Madrid for €100m. I'm not saying Sterling will be as good as them, but at the moment, I can't think of a better player under 21 in Europe.

Yeah, no one in Argentina had heard of Messi. Seriously dude, you are deluded. I'm out.

MightyMandarin

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yeah, no one in Argentina had heard of Messi. Seriously dude, you are deluded. I'm out.

It's alright, I'm sure ever-injured Walcott and 3-goals Gnabry will lead Arsenal to the 4th place trophy again.

CSF

weldoninhio wrote: »

Champs Lge team?? They've been in it once since he signed. Serious Anfield tinted glasses being worn in this thread.

Yeah I love Liverpool man. YNWA. J496. Suarez is not a racist. Don't buy the sun.

But not really. Just common sense. They were a Champions League team the year after he made his breakout season. How would the other years before that when he was still a youth be relevant?

weldoninhio

CSF wrote: »

Yeah I love Liverpool man. YNWA. J496. Suarez is not a racist. Don't buy the sun.

But not really. Just common sense. They were a Champions League team the year after he made his breakout season. How would the other years before that when he was still a youth be relevant?

This is his 3rd season with Liverpools first team, Liverpool have had 6 Champs Lge group games in all that time.

CSF

weldoninhio wrote: »

This is his 3rd season with Liverpools first team, Liverpool have had 6 Champs Lge group games in all that time.

It's his second since his proper breakthrough. Not his fault they didn't qualify the year before.