UK: Signs on front of trains indicating length

n97 mini

Was in the UK over the weekend and noticed they've started putting big yellow signs with black text on the front of trains, between the two windows, indicating the length of the train. Text reads "This train has 5 coaches" with 5 in very large lettering.

Fantastic idea.

LXFlyer

Can you be more specific?

There are almost 30 different train operators and they are certainly not all doing this.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

Can you be more specific?

There are almost 30 different train operators and they are certainly not all doing this.

I observed it on a few trains, a minority. I hope it becomes standard practice.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

I observed it on a few trains, a minority. I hope it becomes standard practice.

Which train operator was this?

CaptainSkidmark

why is it a good idea?

Manic Moran

CaptainSkidmark wrote: »

why is it a good idea?

I have to say, I'm inclined to agree with the question. By the time you're able to see it on the front of the train, it's a little late to make use of the information.

Where I am, on BART, the length of the train is indicated on the platform sign before the train approaches, so you're not running half the length of the platform when you discover that the ten-car-train you were expecting was actually only five cars long.

frankyboy1986

in heuston station it gives the length of the train up on the big screen with the departures on it

Captain Chaos

Manic Moran wrote: »

Where I am, on BART, the length of the train is indicated on the platform sign before the train approaches, so you're not running half the length of the platform when you discover that the ten-car-train you were expecting was actually only five cars long.

Here it is a problem with DARTs especially. Signs have been installed as stop points for drivers and passengers of short trains but most don't use them and still go to the top of the platform regardless of train length. It's all luck of the draw on the driver.

Example I have noticed at Connolly platform 7 lately, it's a curved platform so all trains should go to the top so the driver can watch the CCTV screens. But on short 4car 8100 DART trains the drivers tend to go all the way to the top, if it's an 8500 DART the drivers tend to stop two coach lengths short of the top.

There is just no consistency.

n97 mini

How can providing more information ever not be a good idea.

It can be seen from considerable distance and gives people a head start on where to be on the platform.

@lx, Southern, iirc.

Captain Chaos

n97 mini wrote: »

How can providing more information ever not be a good idea.

It can be seen from considerable distance and gives people a head start on where to be on the platform.

@lx, Southern, iirc.

It only works if the drivers do their part too in stopping position otherwise it's pointless.

LXFlyer

To be fair on the GB rail network, the platform indicators normally state the length of the train so people do normally know where to stand, and drivers do usually abide by the stop boards.

There really is no excuse for Irish Rail drivers not doing the same.

SpaceTime

The Paris area has had indicators on platforms telling you in French : Long Train or Short Train for as long as they've had the ability to use electric signage.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

There really is no excuse for Irish Rail drivers not doing the same.

What I don't get is why there's an attempt to do it on the DART but no attempt on say the Maynooth line where a 4 coach train will go to the end of the platform even if the entrance is the complete opposite end.

Captain Chaos

n97 mini wrote: »

What I don't get is why there's an attempt to do it on the DART but no attempt on say the Maynooth line where a 4 coach train will go to the end of the platform even if the entrance is the complete opposite end.

Are there none of those blue signs with "2,3,4 car stop" on any of the Maynooth line stations? Would have thought there was.

On the real time displays in the city centre last summer it used to say if the next train was long or short but in my experience it was wrong most of the time. That trial didn't last very long.

bikeman1

I have noticed a marked improvement with the DART on them obeying the 2,3,4 stop boards, or in the case of places where there are none (Bayside), Raheny northbound for example. The drivers are stopping appropriately and in a more professional manner.

You certainly don't have 2 car DARTs going to the very end of the platforms.

Connolly platform 7 and 5 northbound (after 2245) are a different story. Drivers usually and correctly pull down far enough so they can safely see all the doors. Most regulars like me know that they will pull down the platform and accordingly move up.

Captain Chaos

bikeman1 wrote: »

You certainly don't have 2 car DARTs going to the very end of the platforms.

Connolly platform 7 and 5 northbound (after 2245) are a different story. Drivers usually and correctly pull down far enough so they can safely see all the doors. Most regulars like me know that they will pull down the platform and accordingly move up.

Not for me, the 8500s as 4 cars always stop short at P7 on Connolly. I'd be standing at the end had have to quick time it back to the canopy. about 3 coach lengths back, the drivers know they can see the train curve by experience.

At Killester one night a I was on a 2 car DART that went right to the very end. Then platform exit is behind even a 6 car train but that's what goes on. Some drivers are good but alot still go to the top regardless and then others it depends on the station and driver experience.

bikeman1

Yes that is what I meant with Connolly it is hit and miss.

I have also had 8100s stop before the end of tge platform with a short train, so it is not just the 8500s like you think!

n97 mini

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Are there none of those blue signs with "2,3,4 car stop" on any of the Maynooth line stations? Would have thought there was.

Nope. Nor the Hazelhatch line. And the drivers *always* go to the end of the platforms.

I haven't paid enough attention but do short diesels trains stop at the signs in the city centre stations?

L1011

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Are there none of those blue signs with "2,3,4 car stop" on any of the Maynooth line stations? Would have thought there was.

No, and no consistency to where they stop. 4 cars often stop at the end but not always

Captain Chaos

L1011 wrote: »

No, and no consistency to where they stop. 4 cars often stop at the end but not always

I'm just going from my experience of getting the same DART home every day for the past 6 months. I do have a good idea and this is what happens for the 16:57 DART and the one after. The 16:57 is always a 8100 unless something happened during the day and one after is always a 4 car 8500.

I can put money on where these two DARTs will stop. 8 times out of 10 an 4 8500 will stop well short, and 9 times out of 10 the 8100 will go all the way.

ICRs are all over the shop. The 17:07 3ICR to Balbriggan will always stop all cars as close as possible to the passenger access ramp of platform 6&7. Nice of the driver to do so and it's like that every day.

Chemical Byrne

I don't see the point of it. It's a piece of useless information. I mean, the train is just as long as it's long.

n97 mini

Profound! It's there not to tell you how long the train is for the sake of it, but to give you an idea where on the platform it will stop.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

Profound! It's there not to tell you how long the train is for the sake of it, but to give you an idea where on the platform it will stop.

The platform displays already give you this information though, so I'm not sure what additional use this would be as you are already standing on the platform at the time the train arrives.

Louche Lad

And often you can see how many cars there are when the train's arriving.

L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

The platform displays already give you this information though, so I'm not sure what additional use this would be as you are already standing on the platform at the time the train arrives.

Rarely.

n97 mini

L1011 wrote: »

Rarely.

+1. I don't recall seeing it for any train I got, and I used the train a lot around South London when I was there recently.

LXFlyer

L1011 wrote: »

Rarely.

n97 mini wrote: »

+1. I don't recall seeing it for any train I got, and I used the train a lot around South London when I was there recently.

The vast majority of passenger information boards on British railway platforms do display the number of coaches that each train is formed of.

As someone who makes 4 or 5 trips a year across the GB passenger rail network, I can say that this is most definitely the case.

highlydebased

London Overground train OP?

(https://www.flickr.com/groups/875923@N24/)

Across the UK the number of coaches is typically announced over the PA too

n97 mini

Combination of trains, though the one I specifically mentioned was a yellow sign, not too dissimilar.

lxflyer wrote: »

The vast majority of passenger information boards on British railway platforms do display the number of coaches that each train is formed of.

As someone who makes 4 or 5 trips a year across the GB passenger rail network, I can say that this is most definitely the case.

I don't know what parts of the network you're travelling but they're obviously not the same ones as I travelled recently.

EDIT: blog post about LO 5 car trains here: https://anonw.wordpress.com/2014/11/09/londons-low-key-new-train-launch/

L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

The vast majority of passenger information boards on British railway platforms do display the number of coaches that each train is formed of.

As someone who makes 4 or 5 trips a year across the GB passenger rail network, I can say that this is most definitely the case.

Southern would be where I travel the most and its rarely done there other than at Gatwick.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

Combination of trains, though the one I specifically mentioned was a yellow sign, not too dissimilar.

I don't know what parts of the network you're travelling but they're obviously not the same ones as I travelled recently.

EDIT: blog post about LO 5 car trains here: https://anonw.wordpress.com/2014/11/09/londons-low-key-new-train-launch/

That's purely being done while the trains are being lengthened on London Overground. It's highlighting the improvement to the trains, which previously were all only 4 car-trains.


All of the London Overground electric trains are in the process of being extended to five cars during the course of this year.


The notice is not intended as a permanent feature or to be extended to other trains. It's just advertising the investment.

Decuc500

I think the rule for using the Dart in evening rush hour for the Northside is always stand in the middle of the platform. Almost all Darts are 4 carriages and jammed so just hope you can get on. You'd be a fool to walk to the end of the platform with the current shortened train service.

LXFlyer

If you stand beside the 2-3-4 car stop sign you should by and large have a coach in front of you.