Hot water in toilet

Misticles

When we flush the toilet it fills with hot water and we have noticed that the cistern is quite hot too.

We said this to our property manager and he in turn said it to the landlord. They have said that it won't be getting rectified as that is the way it was originally plumbed and it is in full working order.

I'm conscious of it wasting our hot water and putting up bills.

MrWalsh

Ask them if their insurance covers someone suffering scalds in the property if the cistern cracks and sprays someone with hot water.

daveyeh

The cistern must be filling up from the hot water cylinder. I've lived in 2 places where this has been the set up. Always with a downstairs toilet and the hot water cylinder upstairs.

Misticles

It's in an apartment so the toilet and cylinder are on the same level.

Just wondering how to proceed with this as we don't want to be scalded with water or high electric bills. All our water is heated by electricity.

daveyeh

Misticles wrote: »

It's in an apartment so the toilet and cylinder are on the same level.

Just wondering how to proceed with this as we don't want to be scalded with water or high electric bills. All our water is heated by electricity.

You'll need a plumber to hook it up to a cold water source then.

Scalded by flushing the toilet? I doubt the cistern will ever disintigrate due to hot water.

ForestFire

Misticles wrote: »

It's in an apartment so the toilet and cylinder are on the same level.

Just wondering how to proceed with this as we don't want to be scalded with water or high electric bills. All our water is heated by electricity.

In my opionon it is not "full working order"

Hot water is not supposed to go to the toilet.
It is wasting the water in the tank, costing you money and potental to be unsafe.

What happens when 2/3 people use the toilet in the morning - no hot water left for showers/bath????

Misticles

ForestFire wrote: »

In my opionon it is not "full working order"

Hot water is not supposed to go to the toilet.
It is wasting the water in the tank, costing you money and potental to be unsafe.

What happens when 2/3 people use the toilet in the morning - no hot water left for showers/bath????

Yep, we have had to stop flushing the toilet when's it's just a yellow one because it takes from shower time and washing up dishes.

The_Morrigan

I've deleted some off topic/less than helpful comments.

Folks, keep it relevant and constructive please.

Kristopherus

Misticles wrote: »

Yep, we have had to stop flushing the toilet when's it's just a yellow one because it takes from shower time and washing up dishes.

Well, if the LL is not prepared to do anything, you could mention that you will be deducting the excess electricity used to heat the toilet from the rent eaxh month. That may elicit a positive response.

emeldc

The thermostat is fcuked in the immersion tank. It will keep heating and eventually 'boil' up into the cold water tank in the attic. It happened me once.
A temporary fix is switch the immersion off.

Misticles

Kristopherus wrote: »

Well, if the LL is not prepared to do anything, you could mention that you will be deducting the excess electricity used to heat the toilet from the rent eaxh month. That may elicit a positive response.

How could we prove the excess though? We only moved in last month.

Mrs OBumble

MrWalsh wrote: »

Ask them if their insurance covers someone suffering scalds in the property if the cistern cracks and sprays someone with hot water.

Have you ever seriously heard of it doing that?

Or of the hot water tank water being THAT hot????

MrWalsh

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Have you ever seriously heard of it doing that?

Or of the hot water tank water being THAT hot????

Well, yes, one of my cisterns cracked once and sprayed me with water.

And as for hot water scalds, eh yes - google it!

the_syco

When asking the agent/landlord about it, query if the pipes support the hot temperature of the water?

emeldc

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Have you ever seriously heard of it doing that?

Or of the hot water tank water being THAT hot????

If the thermostat is broken the water will eventually boil and overflow into the cold water tank. See the orange 'overflow' pipe in the diagram

meercat

emeldc wrote: »

If the thermostat is broken the water will eventually boil and overflow into the cold water tank. See the orange 'overflow' pipe in the diagram

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-506604/Water-tank-fault-scalded-baby-girl-death-known-unreliable.html

spaceHopper

Tell them that you all know it shouldn't be like that and if it was their own home they'd get it fixed. Give them a choice either they get it fixed or you do and deduct the cost from the next rent due + an additional 100 euros to cover the extra costs incurred and hassle. Send it in email and follow up with a letter. Give them five working days to respond.

If they have an issue with it they can take it to the PTRB. Make sure that they understand that besides a plumber there will also be some redecoration costs too.

Misticles

spaceHopper wrote: »

Tell them that you all know it shouldn't be like that and if it was their own home they'd get it fixed. Give them a choice either they get it fixed or you do and deduct the cost from the next rent due + an additional 100 euros to cover the extra costs incurred and hassle. Send it in email and follow up with a letter. Give them five working days to respond.

If they have an issue with it they can take it to the PTRB. Make sure that they understand that besides a plumber there will also be some redecoration costs too.

We are in the UK so will have to see what the Prtb equivalent is.

Can someone explain to me in laymens what is happening? Im useless with this stuff. How will this affect our energy bills?

Misticles

We just flushed the toilet and steam rose! We actually took a video. I dipped my hand in and it would be temperature you would have a bath at. Going to buy a thermometer tomorrow and actually take a reading.

Used a thermometer - it's 50 degrees after 3 flushes.

zagmund

Misticles wrote: »

We are in the UK so will have to see what the Prtb equivalent is.

Can someone explain to me in laymens what is happening? Im useless with this stuff. How will this affect our energy bills?

Laymans terms - some water somewhere in your house is getting really, really hot. When this happens the water expands (ref: Physics class, 3rd year) and so it has to overflow somewhere. The normal safe place to overflow is into your cold water tank. If your cold water tank gets too hot (serious problem) or otherwise has a fault, then it will overflow out a pipe out the side of the attic.

What is the water like when you run the "cold" tap in the bath/shower/sink? It should be coming from the same cold water store, so it should also be hot.

Or . . . the plumber connected the hot water feed to the toilet but connected all the other cold water taps correctly.

If nothing else, you have to remember that you are paying for the gas or electricity to heat the water that is being flushed, so that alone is a waste of your money.

z

Misticles

zagmund wrote: »

Laymans terms - some water somewhere in your house is getting really, really hot. When this happens the water expands (ref: Physics class, 3rd year) and so it has to overflow somewhere. The normal safe place to overflow is into your cold water tank. If your cold water tank gets too hot (serious problem) or otherwise has a fault, then it will overflow out a pipe out the side of the attic.

What is the water like when you run the "cold" tap in the bath/shower/sink? It should be coming from the same cold water store, so it should also be hot.

Or . . . the plumber connected the hot water feed to the toilet but connected all the other cold water taps correctly.

If nothing else, you have to remember that you are paying for the gas or electricity to heat the water that is being flushed, so that alone is a waste of your money.

z

Thanks for that. I really don't think they are going to budge. It's not every time we flush the toilet but just thought there had to be something wrong.

So property guy is wrong when he says it's in full working order because if it was plumbed that way it has never been in full working order.

zagmund

Have you considered what it is that's doing the heating? You say you are they just a month or so - is there any chance someone stuck the immersion on and nobody knows it's on, or that the boiler is set to run 24*7 instead of being on a timer?

Try turning off all the heating systems for 12-24 hours and see if your toilet cools down.

z

emeldc

^^^^^ What he says ^^^^^

From my experience of houses in the UK most have gas heating which heats water on demand. i.e. turn on hot tap and boiler kicks in heating the water as you use it (there is usually a very small tank which holds a little hot water so that the boiler can keep up with a running tap).

It sounds like the toilet is actually connected to the hot water pipes as opposed to the overflow scenario. One possible way to check is after you flush the toilet does the boiler turn on. If it does that may confirm what I'm saying and it's turning on to heat the water which is refilling the toilet.

runawaybishop

Misticles wrote: »

Thanks for that. I really don't think they are going to budge. It's not every time we flush the toilet but just thought there had to be something wrong.

So property guy is wrong when he says it's in full working order because if it was plumbed that way it has never been in full working order.

The property guy is completely wrong. You are wasting money heating water which is being flushed down the toilet. It doesnt matter how this is happening the fact that it is happening means there is a problem.

Follow these steps if the LL still refuses to fix the issue.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/tenants_repairs_and_improvements/tenants_doing_repairs

spaceHopper

Misticles wrote: »

Thanks for that. I really don't think they are going to budge. It's not every time we flush the toilet but just thought there had to be something wrong.

So property guy is wrong when he says it's in full working order because if it was plumbed that way it has never been in full working order.

If they aren't going to budge - take a case to the PTRB and be done with it.

It would be worth finding out if it's bad plubming or as others have siad the HW take venting into the cold water tank.

When it happening get a chair to stand on check the top of your cold water tank it most apartments it all one big tall unit. If the top of the tank is hot then it's hot water venting into the cold.... I which case it should be easy to replace the thermostat. Also in our old apartment there was a variable thermostat clipped to the side of the the tank check it didn't get knocked to max.

Idbatterim

would you not be better off putting something in the cistern to prop the ballcock up? that way you can simply get a container, fill it from kitchen tap and flush toilet that way for the mean time? At least you wont be heating up water and sending it down the toilet!

darkside71

Another for possible cause as experienced the same myself and thought I'd gone mad!

I had pressurized water system (3 Bar) in my house. A pump that was submerged in the cold water tank in the attic to keep the water 3 bar pressure up was faulty and just kept running all the time and generated lots of heat, so much so it heated the water around in the cold water tank to the point steam was rising from it in the attic. The builder in the estate ended up having to replace all the said pumps to correct the issue.

One easy way to spot this is that the cold water taps in the bathroom etc will also have hot water coming from them.

darkside71

Another for possible cause as experienced the same myself and thought I'd gone mad!

I had pressurized water system (3 Bar) in my house. A pump that was submerged in the cold water tank in the attic to keep the water 3 bar pressure up was faulty and just kept running all the time and generated lots of heat, so much so it heated the water around it in the cold water tank to the point steam was rising from it in the attic. The builder in the estate ended up having to replace all the said pumps to correct the issue.

One easy way to spot this is that the cold water taps in the bathroom etc will also have hot water coming from them.

RainyDay

darkside71 wrote: »

One easy way to spot this is that the cold water taps in the bathroom etc will also have hot water coming from them.

We often find that the cold water tap in the upstairs bathroom will run warm or even hot water for a minute or two, before getting cold again. Any idea what's going on with that?

runawaybishop

RainyDay wrote: »

We often find that the cold water tap in the upstairs bathroom will run warm or even hot water for a minute or two, before getting cold again. Any idea what's going on with that?

Hot water pipes are running next to cold water pipes with no insulation between them maybe.

zagmund

If it runs hot for a bit and then cold, then what you are seeing is the water in the pipes being heated somehow (as the bishop says, likely because they are beside a hot pipe) and then the actual cold water from the tank flowing through.

There are a couple of other heat sources to consider - it will all depend on the route your cold pipes take. It could be your hot water tank, your heating circuit, the waste water from your dishwasher/washing machine, etc . . . Depending on how hot your house is and how hot your "cold" water is, it could also just be picking up the heat from the environment, but you would need to be living in a very hot house to notice it in the water.

Have a think about when you notice it most and then think back to what heat sources have been generating or are likely to have contributed.

z

RainyDay

Thanks folks, I'll keep digging.

K.Flyer

RainyDay wrote: »

Thanks folks, I'll keep digging.

In the bathroom, the hot water should be coming out of the left taps and the cold from the right, check which way yours are.

RainyDay

K.Flyer wrote: »

In the bathroom, the hot water should be coming out of the left taps and the cold from the right, check which way yours are.

Thanks, yes, hot on the left, cold on the right. And the cold often runs warm for a minute or two.