Major tax fraud linked to the registration of luxury cars

Iwannahurl

According to RTE, Gardaí have discovered a multi-million euro fraud linked to the registration of luxury cars. The scam was rumbled when the traffic unit at Dublin Castle noticed that the tax discs on some three-litre luxury cars recorded their engine capacity as less than two litres.

Hundreds of these cars have been registered with lower engine capacities using false documentation to pay less tax and insurance.

So far 18 BMWs have been seized, but gardaí have also identified fraudulently registered Range Rovers, Mercedes, Lexus, Volkswagens and Jaguars.

It amounts to an estimated fraud of over €2 million.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0311/686274-fraud-luxury-cars/

pa990

Its hard to tell the difference between a 520 and a 530 by just lifting the bonnet.


Plenty more examples of incorrect engine sizes verses what the log book says, are for sale on DoneDeal

ba_barabus

Good.

Sheldons Brain

This kind is fraud is a bit thick, as it is so easily detected. Gardai want a.to be not lifted yet to turn themselves in.

KT10

From the Garda Facebook page

Operation into under declaring of cubic capacity of car engines

The Dublin Metropolitan Region (DMR) Traffic Division have seized 18 cars as part of an ongoing investigation into the under declaring of cubic capacity of the car engine in order to pay a lower motor tax rate.
One male was arrested and charged with fraud and theft offences and appeared on the 10th March 2015 at The Criminal Courts of Justice, No. 4, and is remanded on continuing bail to appear on the 21st April at the same court.

DMR Traffic have carried out an investigation for the last number of weeks which culminated in the seizure of 11 cars last Saturday, the 7th March, 4 on Sunday, the 8th and 3 on the 10th – total 18.
While this initial stage of the operation involved 18 BMW cars the scam involves luxury cars from a wide range of manufactures.

Investigations are ongoing, in each case it is suspected that a false declaration was made to the relevant Motor Taxation Office understating the size of the car engine. Each of the cars will now be examined by the Public Service Vehicle Inspector. DMR Traffic will liaise closely with Department of Environment in terms of Motor Tax and Customs and Excise in regards to having the vehicle tested for illegal diesel.
DMR Traffic will also be liaising with the insurance companies involved as this scam raises issues in relation to the validity of insurance, safety of the vehicle due to possible modifications of the engine and lose of revenue to the state in terms of road tax.

Gardai wish to make the following appeal “those involved to immediately regularise the situation with their local tax office, insurance company and An Garda Siochana” (current insurance may not be valid). An Garda Siochana would also remind people purchasing cars to ensure that the Vehicle Licensing Certificate reflects the correct engine size.

Motorists engaging in this type of activity are advised that they are open to having their vehicle detained and being prosecuted in Court.

Special Circumstances

Isn't there a poster on here with a 2.0 on logbook 530 or 535?

Rowley Birkin QC

http://www.newstalk.com/Motor-tax-scam-Dublin-engine-size-fraud-Garda-Traffic-arrested

I wonder did they just search Donedeal for "2.0 on the book"?

Also, anyone know when the next Garda Auction is?! Dibs on the M3.

Big Nasty

1.6 on the book laaaaaaaaad!

And they're all Bimmers.

daRobot

Interesting.

But how are they going to physically check all of this, as there appears to be thousands of cars like this out there.

listermint

Will they be investigating the tax officials who rubber stamped them?


No ?

didnt think so....

BorneTobyWilde

You see that a lot with older big engined cars on Done Del
''3.5 v8 taxed as a 2 Litre call me now'' it's very common

jhegarty

I am sure a quick search at the tax office for car that don't exist would be start.

Anyone have a 1.5l M5 going cheap ?

wendell borton

Wouldn't they fail the emmisions in the nct.

Caliden

Good.

I can't imagine how infuriating it would be to pay high tax on a 3 litre+ car and then see others cheating the system.

Discussion on how crazy the tax rates are is a completely different issue.

BorneTobyWilde

I would think the dealers are involved if the cars are new. Easier to sell a car with smaller tax .

wendell borton

wendell borton wrote: »

Wouldn't they fail the emmisions in the nct.

My car had CO of 0.01 and HC of 5 with lambda at 1.00. What cc is the car :-)

jelutong

Spending €40k plus on a BMW and trying to save a few euro on car tax ! Beggars belief.
Surely it would be sussed out during the NCT test.

Special Circumstances

listermint wrote: »

Will they be investigating the tax officials who rubber stamped them?


No ?

didnt think so....

Interesting to see if there was collusion but afaik registered dealers with a TAN (??) number can reg imports online and maybe that's how this was done.

Idbatterim

One male was arrested and charged with fraud and theft offences and appeared on the 10th March 2015 at The Criminal Courts of Justice, No. 4, and is remanded on continuing bail to appear on the 21st April at the same court.

No mention of the theft like rates that apply to these 3L and over cars here...

Spending €40k plus on a BMW and trying to save a few euro on car tax !

doesnt have to be 40,000, you can find 3L 530's etc for under a grand on donedeal...

Spending €40k plus on a BMW and trying to save a few euro on car tax !

if they were down as 2L, and you paid the 2L rate for the year, you are saving nearly E1000 v paying the 3L rate E1494 by the quarter...

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Atlantic Dawn

What they should have in law is any car where they CC is being reduced by an engine replacement should have to present to NCT for engine testing and cerification.

A simple trawl of Donedeal for the "xyz on Book" merchants would bring in hundreds of cars.

Korat

This invalidates their insurance as well.

They'd be liable for all the damages if they hit anyone.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

ironclaw

Presumably the VIN is tied to original manufacturer import data and then the license plate. You can just search that database against the tax office information versus what the VIN says the car is. You'd have the whole lot shut down in a week and some hefy fines to boot. The cost to the State? Negligible for the windfall you'd get by doing it.

Also, its slightly concerning that the system is so open for someone to change the tax information without higher and rubber stamped approval. I know mistakes do happen but this is willful.

Once again, amateur hour is upon us.

Sobanek

Korat wrote: »

This invalidates their insurance as well.

They'd be liable for all the damages if they hit anyone.

I know a few people who have their cars down as 2 litre on logbook and they all are insured correctly. You don't insure a 535d as a 530d or a 520d etc.

If they go through details of the reg, people say it's wrong on the logbook and provide the real engine size most of the time to prevent being uninsured on the road.

Foxhole Norman

There's an E39 M5 for sale in Limerick that was down as a 2.0, it's down now as a 5.0 :pac:

Sheldons Brain

ironclaw wrote: »

Presumably the VIN is tied to original manufacturer import data and then the license plate. You can just search that database against the tax office information versus what the VIN says the car is. You'd have the whole lot shut down in a week and some hefy fines to boot. The cost to the State? Negligible for the windfall you'd get by doing it.

They know some of these vehicles were changed as the form was filled in. However, these guys were not sophisticated, they just made up the replacement engine number and in some cases used the same engine number over again and again. I'd say this issue has now risen up the agenda and they'll do various checks, collecting back tax, fines etc in the process.

jimgoose

Mmm. Glad now I didn't drop that huge Chrysler V8 in. :pac:

vectra

pa990 wrote: »

Its hard to tell the difference between a 520 and a 530 by just lifting the bonnet.


Plenty more examples of incorrect engine sizes verses what the log book says, are for sale on DoneDeal

Very easy to tell spot the difference between an M3 and a 32oci though .
I know of one or two and I think it is totally wrong. Not only is the car not taxed but wouldnt that also affect your insurance?

Kenny Logins

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

There's an E39 M5 for sale in Limerick that was down as a 2.0, it's down now as a 5.0 :pac:

If he's reading this, he also needs to remove the plates from the ad (just had a peep).

Dermo123

Here are just a few examples after a quick check
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-530-d-e60/8795060?offset=9

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-535/8582599?offset=10

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-530d-2004-2ltr-on-book/8514523?offset=21


There must be 1,000's out there......

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Atlantic Dawn

Wonder are they all traced back to one dealer/garage who signed off on the engine changes?

Atlantic Dawn

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Once the engine number matches the logbook that's all they check.

Foxhole Norman

Kenny Logins wrote: »

If he's reading this, he also needs to remove the plates from the ad (just had a peep).

What's wrong with the plates?

Also, I know there was a few 645i's registered wrongly as 3.0's by BMW Ireland, I wonder what the story is there.

Kenny Logins

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

What's wrong with the plates?

Also, I know there was a few 645i's registered wrongly as 3.0's by BMW Ireland, I wonder what the story is there.

The plates reveal the tax rate and registered engine size.

Foxhole Norman

Kenny Logins wrote: »

The plates reveal the tax rate and registered engine size.

Leave them on sure, he might learn his lesson then!

BarryD

Korat wrote: »

This invalidates their insurance as well.

They'd be liable for all the damages if they hit anyone.

Insurance company might say that but in the event, pay up. We were hit once by a drunk driver whose policy was based on his stated fact of being a non drinker. After a wee bit of hassle, they paid up - wasn't our fault the insurance company gave him a cheaper policy and took on this risk.

Wossack

any 1.3 turbo Glanza's?

beertons

Is it just Beemers they got?

\sigh

Toyotafanboi

Wossack wrote: »

any 1.3 turbo Glanza's?

i doubt it because the turbo and N/A are the exact same cc.

Ratchet

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Once the engine number matches the logbook that's all they check.

VIN is checked not a engine number.


on the other note this is going on for years and i seen ads like this in mid 90s

Big Nasty

beertons wrote: »

Is it just Beemers they got?

\sigh

No, no motorbikes.

Atlantic Dawn

BarryD wrote: »

Insurance company might say that but in the event, pay up. We were hit once by a drunk driver whose policy was based on his stated fact of being a non drinker. After a wee bit of hassle, they paid up - wasn't our fault the insurance company gave him a cheaper policy and took on this risk.

They would have to pay the 3rd party claim either way no matter what the driver had declared. His claim on his car would probably not be entertained and they might also seek recovery of the cost of your claim from him.

BarryD

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

They would have to pay the 3rd party claim either way no matter what the driver had declared. His claim on his car would probably not be entertained and they might also seek recovery of the cost of your claim from him.

Ah so, if some of these under declared cars are insured and hit somebody, the innocent party is covered but not the driver. Useful thing to know if that's correct, as at the time (good few years ago) his insurance company was making out they were doing this 'out the goodness of their hearts' - as if you'd believe that

daRobot

I would say that the vast majority of the 'luxury' car owners, have them insured correctly, and therefore are covered.

The jap scrap however, no so much.

Special Circumstances

daRobot wrote: »

I would say that the vast majority of the 'luxury' car owners, have them insured correctly, and therefore are covered.

The jap scrap however, no so much.

Lol.

Atlantic Dawn

With the insurers what they will likely do is if you have your car declared as a 3.5 litre car to them but the logbook has been changed to say it's a 2 litre engine they will have the options to:

• fail to pay your claim outside any third party claims
• if the correct insurance premium for the 2 litre was 50% of the cost of the 3.5 litre they will either restrict your claim by 50%
• they might restrict your claims to the value the car based on the engine cc listed in the logbook.

Dermo123

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

With the insurers what they will likely do is if you have your car declared as a 3.5 litre car to them but the logbook has been changed to say it's a 2 litre engine they will have the options to:

• fail to pay your claim outside any third party claims
• if the correct insurance premium for the 2 litre was 50% of the cost of the 3.5 litre they will either restrict your claim by 50%
• they might restrict your claims to the value the car based on the engine cc listed in the logbook.

If a person declares the correct engine size to their insurer then the insurance company cannot really have a basis to restrict a claim because of a lower engine size on the logbook. The high premium was paid so they should be fully insured.
Now I would understand if it was the other way around!!!!

daRobot

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

With the insurers what they will likely do is if you have your car declared as a 3.5 litre car to them but the logbook has been changed to say it's a 2 litre engine they will have the options to:

• fail to pay your claim outside any third party claims
• if the correct insurance premium for the 2 litre was 50% of the cost of the 3.5 litre they will either restrict your claim by 50%
• they might restrict your claims to the value the car based on the engine cc listed in the logbook.

What you've just written has no basis in fact whatsoever.

There are many cases of genuine admin errors in the registration department, and also by the importer. BMW Ireland have a host of v8 6 series that are incorrectly registered as 3.0's.

Even if the insurance company had a leg to stand on (which they don't), how would you propose that they segment and identify the genuine vs non-genuine cases. It would make no sense.

If the car is declared to the insurance company as what it is in reality, that car is correctly insured. They are not tax collectors, and such the tax status of the car is no basis to reject a claim.

ShaunieVW

I had a 530d which was 2 litre tax but still insured as 3 litres. Only person who lost out was the tax office, hardly the biggest crime of the century. If they were incorrectly declared to insurance then that's a different matter.