The Battle For Rural Ireland (RTE One)

Say Your Number

Started a few minutes ago, it's painting a grim enough picture.

dloob

Other than agriculture you aren't going to get much other industry in rural areas.
Some tourism in some of the scenic areas too.

somesoldiers

Any relation to Zack Heffron?

Lapin

Galway and Dublin are the only places foreign companies want to invest in being realistic.

You can't blame them in all fairness like. Those are the places where all the young bright people are drawn to and want to live.

The rest of the country is grand for going for a drive in at weekends.

somesoldiers

Bookies & chemists are the only businesses that have increased in towns over the last decade

flazio

Lapin wrote: »

Galway and Dublin are the only places foreign companies want to invest in being realistic.

You can't blame them in all fairness like. Those are the places where all the young bright people are drawn to and want to live.

The rest of the country is grand for going for a drive in at weekends.

I would consider Cork and Limerick as places to go as well.
Galway is really the only place that has beaten the curse of the shannon.

Lapin

somesoldiers wrote: »

Bookies & chemists are the only businesses that have increased in towns over the last decade

Yeah what's the story with chemists like?


Don't forget the €2 shops too.

ProudDUB

It's not just a Dublin vs rural thing though, even though its easier to make it appear that simple.

What about the large multinational supermarkets that move into the outskirts of towns, or large shopping developments that are built there? People are able to do their shopping and park their car in a more convenient and cheaper setting, but the towns main street become a ghost town as a result.

What do you do about that? Who do you blame for that...the multi nationals themselves, the councils who gave them planning permission, them above up in Dublin who just don't care about us, or the housewife who thinks its great that she can get a multipack of Andrex for 2 euros?

flazio

Lapin wrote: »

Yeah what's the story with chemists like?


Don't forget the €2 shops too.

The population is getting older and therefore sicker.

somesoldiers

Lapin wrote: »

Yeah what's the story with chemists like?

Must be lots of money in it for everyone. One street in Wexford town has 9 or 10 chemists alone

lisasimpson

Lapin wrote: »

Galway and Dublin are the only places foreign companies want to invest in being realistic.

You can't blame them in all fairness like. Those are the places where all the young bright people are drawn to and want to live.

The rest of the country is grand for going for a drive in at weekends.

Youll also find that some of those who are drawn to the bright lights of towns and cities have a longing to return to the country after so many yrs i know a number of my friends who want to but theirs nothing there. Cant overly depend on the agri sector.need to look at other industries such as renewal engeries etc. Need to forget about fdi in rural ireland. Rarely happens

lisasimpson

Lapin wrote: »

Galway and Dublin are the only places foreign companies want to invest in being realistic.

You can't blame them in all fairness like. Those are the places where all the young bright people are drawn to and want to live.

The rest of the country is grand for going for a drive in at weekends.

Youll also find that some of those who are drawn to the bright lights of towns and cities have a longing to return to the country after so many yrs i know a number of my friends who want to but theirs nothing there. Cant overly depend on the agri sector.need to look at other industries such as renewal engeries etc. Need to forget about fdi in rural ireland. Rarely happens

washman3

Lapin wrote: »

Yeah what's the story with chemists like?


Don't forget the €2 shops too.

A monopoly, simple as.! due to the failure of successive Governments to tackle vested interests/cronyism.
Basically chemists/pharmacies are a licence to print money.

Lapin

That National Spatial Strategy was dome joke.

Looked like someone sat down with a map of Ireland and drew circles around a few towns in minister's and marginal FF/PD seats and labelled them Gateways and Hubs.

Got Bertie to show it to us all at a big do in Dublin Castle, and then put it back in a drawer and forgot all about it.

IWillFindYou

I understand the general point of this programme, but the editing is all over the place. I'm highly confused ted.

Lapin

Sad to see yer man shutting up shop for the last time.

A young man like that should be able to trade in his home town like generation before him did.

Lapin

Jesus. The words 'Corrupt Government' on yer one's T-shirt there hit me about half a minute before the rest of her appeared on the screen. :eek:

IWillFindYou

Lapin wrote: »

Jesus. The words 'Corrupt Government' on yer one's T-shirt there hit me about half a minute before the rest of her appeared on the screen. :eek:

Over to the Claire Byrne thread for the night

lisasimpson

I think while we are at it we should congratulate the people of kilfinne and the surrounding areas for what they have developed. Nice to see something positive

Lapin

Ironically, one of the other factors for the decline of rural Ireland is the number of people moving to it. IE, building and living in one off houses.

People living in them bypassing small towns and villages to work and shop in.

SaveOurLyric

dloob wrote: »

Other than agriculture you aren't going to get much other industry in rural areas.

Aint fields the definition of rural so what would one expect ?

Zamboni

Two minutes in and Dublin is full of junkies. Open minded lady from West Cork!
Anyone who turns this into a rural versus urban divide is pathetic.

jake burns

Let's all have a go at Dublin again, same old bollox.

Atlantic Dawn

The end of the milk quotas will just collapse the milk price for the farmer, there's already oversupply.

SaveOurLyric

Lapin wrote: »

Yeah what's the story with chemists like?

There really is no end to the number of shampoos and face creams a woman can buy - they just cant lose.

SaveOurLyric

ProudDUB wrote: »

What about the large multinational supermarkets that move into the outskirts of towns, or large shopping developments that are built there? People are able to do their shopping and park their car in a more convenient and cheaper setting, but the towns main street become a ghost town as a result.

The large supermarkets are buzzing though. So you win some you lose some.

SaveOurLyric

Lapin wrote: »

Sad to see yer man shutting up shop for the last time.

A young man like that should be able to trade in his home town like generation before him did.

We'd still be living in caves with that attitude. Times change. Get with it.

ProudDUB

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

The large supermarkets are buzzing though. So you win some you lose some.

You do. And while the big supermarkets provide jobs, their profits go straight back to London or Berlin. They don't stay in the community. And the businesses that suffer aren't just the green grocer or the butcher who no longer get the customers in their shops, its the hairdressers and coffee shop owners and dress shop owners etc etc who no longer get the business, from people coming to town to do their shopping. It's a vicious cycle & there is no easy fix for it. Blaming Dublin all the time certainly won't fix it.

Atlantic Dawn

With state companies needing to actually earn profits the level of service to one off houses has to suffer.

dloob

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Aint fields the definition of rural so what would one expect ?

Exactly and that's not going to support much of a population.

lisasimpson

I think while we are at it we should congratulate the people of kilfinne and the surrounding areas for what they have developed. Nice to see something positive

Lapin

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

We'd still be living in caves with that attitude. Times change. Get with it.

Whoa, reel in the high horse there. I'm well aware times change. But that doesn't mean it ain't sad to see a young man closing his doors for the last time.


There's no need to be a knob here now.

Zamboni

Haha biased poll is biased

Buford T. Justice XIX

dloob wrote: »

Exactly and that's not going to support much of a population.

I would differ with you on that.

The land produces plenty of beef and milk and the more of those that is processed into higher margin products, the more jobs and investment that remain in rural Ireland.

Examples would be AIBP, Keenan, Dairymaster, McHale etc. All rural based producing products for both home consumption and export. All employing local workers living in the nearby villages and townlands. There are many medium sized companies and hundreds of 2 to 10 employee companies out there doing this already, it wouldn't take much to support those and similar rural based enterprises to slow and reverse the decline.

The_Honeybadger

That programme was depressing. Hard to see how rural Ireland can turn it around, with the exception of areas that can attract tourism. The day of the factory and construction site is over and it ain't coming back on the scale needed to arrest the decline.

There are opportunities in renewable energy in some areas. Lots of forestry planted in the 90s is now ready for thinning / harvest and incentives should be in place for homes and businesses to switch to biomass for heating. District heating systems like they have in Europe would be a great way to create jobs in rural areas and displace billions of euros worth of oil that is imported every year.

lisasimpson

Exactly need to get away from the idea of the government landing a fdi in rural ireland.yes its great the apple announcement for Athenry those announcements are rare. Need to look more at irish industries in these areas. Fix broadband in rural ireland is a big one. As for using tourism gas having coveny on claire byrne in his patch uve a struggling airport with feck all flights if it worked properly it would be a big benefit to rural munster

Buford T. Justice XIX

mickeyk wrote: »

That programme was depressing. Hard to see how rural Ireland can turn it around, with the exception of areas that can attract tourism. The day of the factory and construction site is over and it ain't coming back on the scale needed to arrest the decline.

There are opportunities in renewable energy in some areas. Lots of forestry planted in the 90s is now ready for thinning / harvest and incentives should be in place for homes and businesses to switch to biomass for heating. District heating systems like they have in Europe would be a great way to create jobs in rural areas and displace billions of euros worth of oil that is imported every year.

Biomass isn't going to work for rural Ireland. Much of the crop sown previously has no market so farmers will not sow again.

The_Honeybadger

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Biomass isn't going to work for rural Ireland. Much of the crop sown previously has no market so farmers will not sow again.

District heating systems could create the demand for wood chip in particular. It would take a lot of investment and joined up thinking to get off the ground of course.

There is a small pilot project in Tralee that appears to be working. These type of systems are the norm in other countries and the technology is well proven. No reason why it can't work.

BuilderPlumber

There has to be a recognition of different types of communities and career options. While many jobs are being created, they are often created far away from rural areas and often are far from the skills of 99% of Irish workers. The number of CHINESE, AMERICAN and ex-USSR people working in the so-called 'hi-tech' sector are obvious examples. These jobs do not solve the unemployment problems and are more or less only good for the owners of companies in such sectors. Who was it that put Ireland and this hi-tech thing together? Because it is NOT what Ireland is about at all. Didn't that lovely man Ceaucescu attempt something similar in Romania back in the 1970s and 1980s to try and 'industrialise' the place?

BUT what can be done? I feel that we need to provide jobs for ALL in this country. I feel that people should have a choice to live and work in their own area. Not necessarily their own town or village but in somewhere nearby. Eg. Someone in Mallow should find work in Cork, Limerick or in Mallow itself for example. In this example, that is thankfully generally the case. But other areas like north Mayo and most of Donegal are so remote that things do need to be done to retain populations there.

I was often in Mayo and one thing I noticed is that it has the most depressing, repressed, downtrodden towns of anywhere in Ireland. Apart from one obvious exception, being Westport which is the opposite and shows what a rural town can be. Mayo is a lovely, scenic county and friendly. It just needs a little help and support.

I feel that the powers that be in Ireland want to reinvent this country and ditch the traditional sectors. But when one does this, the tried and trusted collapses leaving nothing. While I respect that (realistic) IT-based careers are part of any modern country, these should complement rather than rival existing business models. IT should help existing businesses and any IT projects should be based around skillsets that Irish people have and to provide services for Irish business.

An over-reliance on MNCs is also an issue. It is long ago we should have dealt with this but now we have become overdependent on them for jobs in the pharmaceutical sector and others.

IMO, a village should have at least the following: a shop, post office, pub, church, school and community centre. Nearby should be enterprise that suits the needs of the village (it can be in the village or within 30 miles). Agriculture, tourism, processing (of turf, milk, sugarbeet, etc.), etc. are all options but so too are manufacturing jobs, graduate jobs, office jobs and self employed services such as book-keeping and legal advisory. All these can spin out of each other and a model that works is needed.

Tourists should witness music, B&Bs, friendly full up pubs, places to eat, festivals, drama, and other such things in an area. What tourist will spend time in a drab village with either a closed pub/restaurant or one with only themselves in at?!?! Or a place where there is no B&B/hotel? They will keep going! There are many parts around rural Cork/north Kerry where this is the case. Pubs closed at 10PM on a Saturday night, no B&Bs, no place at all to eat, no music, no culture. The average tourist sees 'deserted, depressing, wet villages with no life whatsoever'.

Whatever the reasons, rural Ireland has especially since 2013 been at its very worst ever recently. The sad fact is that those who can do something about it do not care. While many newspapers are raving about the 'hi-tech' projects being done in their region through industry or in a college, jobs, career options and communities are becoming thinner on the ground over in the REAL world.

Glebee

Chippers are always busy as well. Im from small town Ireland and the only place thats also fairly busy is the bloddy Chipper...

somesoldiers

Same here, ours is like the floor of the Chicago Board of Trade, the regular customers, lads calling in on the phone, lads waiting for phone orders, deliveries and some Cocktail wanna be lad firing all into a bag, and missing half the order

MayoForSam

Another big issue we have to live with of course is the sheer amount of isolated, one-off houses miles away from the nearest town or village, this is especially prevalent west of the Shannon. Our politicians did the country a total disservice with an impact that will affect generations, by not forcing the planners to create vibrant, nested communities with a critical mass of people to support said pub, shop, etc.

What's the point in living in a fantastic mansion when all around you is decay and the road off in the distance will only serve as an escape route for your children?

John_Rambo

MayoForSam wrote: »

Another big issue we have to live with of course is the sheer amount of isolated, one-off houses miles away from the nearest town or village, this is especially prevalent west of the Shannon. Our politicians did the country a total disservice with an impact that will affect generations, by not forcing the planners to create vibrant, nested communities with a critical mass of people to support said pub, shop, etc.

What's the point in living in a fantastic mansion when all around you is decay and the road off in the distance will only serve as an escape route for your children?

+ 1

No support for villages and small towns.

As I said before on another thread, but it's probably more relevant here..

Everyone moves out of the villages and towns, they are 100% reliant on cars, kids are driven to school, sports, playdates, people shop in soulless, out of town "malls" and retail parks. There's a lack of community, Kids are overweight, have mental issues and are bored stupid by the time they're teenagers. Problems arise when people get elderly and infirm (and we all will!).

People are shocked and annoyed when large areas of one off housing are hard to police, when post offices shut down and towns are starved of investment. The local butchers, shops, drapers, bakers slowly shut down. Everyone blames the lack of parking because nobody can walk or cycle anymore. People demand broadband, they are amazed when ambulances take ages to get to them, they want special laws to allow them to drink and drive, a slight rise in diesel prices and the commute becomes almost not worth it. Public transport becomes defunct because it's impossible to reach anyone spread out in such wide areas.

But... everyone wants their tiger gaff with the nice lawn and garage on an acre. No matter what.

BuilderPlumber

The last two posts pretty much sum it up. Things that have been around for only a short time are actually destroying the fabric of society and traditional business models that have been part of human culture since biblical times.

Firstly, I will state I don't have anything against technology. But I can see the harm done by it when left unchecked and not used to aid traditional sectors.

Here are my top 10 causes of how Ireland's rural communities have been adversely affected by contemporary issues:

1. Globalisation: long before the recession took hold, the culture was when one was considered 'educated' (i.e. went to college), they either went to Dublin or abroad. A huge obsession with Australia developed among a certain generation of Irish. What influenced this? Recession? Unemployment? None of these. It was Home & Away, Neighbours, Jason Donovan and Kylie Minogue who put Australia on the map for a whole generation! Anyway, the end result is a love for the far away and a hatred for their local, rural village! Australia, etc. or even Dublin = cool; the local village = uncool.
2. Online Services: convenient, handy? Yes. One does not have to go to the bank, shop in supermarkets, go to insurance companies or even use the phone. All good but we are not told the downsides. Like it causing unemployment, meaning banks and other services close their branches and where a certain amount of people are sidelined.
3. Begrudgery: unfortunately, this is often inbuilt into rural societies. When someone tries to do something, it is knocked by others out of jealousy or some longstanding feuds. Often, people will go elsewhere with their event and that place benefits instead.
4. Poor quality music in pubs, hotels and other venues: Ireland has one of the best music traditions in the world. But that's not what one will hear in a rural locality. In the era of the plastic paddywhackery of acts such as Mike Denver and Derek Ryan, all one hears in pubs, etc. are either these guys themselves or else similar local acts trying to emulate their idols. Often, it is a guy with a keyboard or an accordion loaded with backing tracks. What one should hear is more sessions where REAL music and singing is done and not backing tracks.
5. Post Office closures: the traditional convenience shop with a post office and petrol pumps was the familiar cornerstone of any small village. With An Post pulling out of many such places, villages lose both post offices and sometimes even the shop too.
6. Poor planning: I think the above 2 posts detailed this. +1
7. Forgotten WRT Employment: At some stage, the Ireland depicted in the John Wayne film The Quiet Man (or revisited in Pat Shortt's Killinaskully and D'Unbelievables) made way for a space age hi-tech culture. However, this new culture was a pipedream and only for the cities. And for foreigners. It was suddenly uncool to be a culchie, a farmer, a mechanic, a manual worker, etc. It was all computer programming, etc. and with it an emphasis on MNCs. But the culchies haven't gone away and are not going anywhere.
8. The manner of people in business: some publicans and shop owners have extremely poor people skills. I know of one publican who constantly gives out about how poor he is and about how everyone from the bank to the rival pub is wrong. Yet, he does not allow much in his pub and knocks his customers' suggestions. I would not go inside his door.
9. The high cost of doing business: rent, rates, insurance, fuel, electricity, etc. ALL take their toll on business. How quickly a business can get into debt becomes clear and the business is dependent on bank loans and overdrafts.
10. Decisions: at the end of the day, one can do 1 of two things. Give out about the situation of 'rural Ireland being a crying shame' and then go to the nearest city to go to the shop or pub. Or we can support local businesses that deserve support. It does need to be a two way thing: the business should appreciate its customers and the customers should appreciate the business.

It would be lovely to go into a small village and visit a thriving shop and post office, and then go across to a lovely little restaurant serving the best of local produce. After that, it would be nice to go into the pub where you are immediately made feel welcome and then you get friendly chat and good music and no backing track cowboys in sight. And then back to the B&B where the owner is lovely and cannot do enough for one. I thankfully have had this experience many times. I have had the opposite as well. But I will support the former always the best I can.

Cen taurus

The term "Rural" Ireland is in itself a symptom of the disease. It's regional Ireland.

I like Dublin, but I think Ireland more than ever suffers from monocity culture and thinking. In the long run, this isn't good for Dublin or Ireland. You only have to look at the motorway "network" as an example. It was designed with the idea that no matter where you live in Ireland, and no matter where else in Ireland you're going to, you should travel via Dublin.

Also if you draw a line between Galway and Dublin, there is precious little investment above it, in terms of infrastructure or otherwise. This is a very unhealthy idea, a country, like any team is only as strong as its weakest regions and elements of society.

BuilderPlumber

Cen taurus wrote: »

The term "Rural" Ireland is in itself a symptom of the disease. It's regional Ireland.

I like Dublin, but I think Ireland more than ever suffers from monocity culture and thinking. In the long run, this isn't good for Dublin or Ireland. You only have to look at the motorway "network" as an example. It was designed with the idea that no matter where you live in Ireland, and no matter where else in Ireland you're going to, you should travel via Dublin.

Also if you draw a line between Galway and Dublin, there is precious little investment above it, in terms of infrastructure or otherwise. This is a very unhealthy idea, a country, like any team is only as strong as its weakest regions and elements of society.

This is so true. Dublin is supposed to be a hub of activity that facilitates a huge area incorporating Wexford to the south and South Leitrim to the north. All within a 2 hour distance. People go from these areas to work in or near Dublin. Start moving outside of this radius to areas not close to any major city, you notice how poor places become. Some areas are serviced by other cities like Cork, Limerick, Galway, etc. And some by major thriving towns like Sligo, Westport, Carrick on Shannon, Longford, etc. Now, this is where trends are replicated:

1. There is a divide between the rich Dublin area and the poorer rest of Ireland.
2. There is a divide between the rich Dublin southside and poor, deprived northside.
3. Within each of the 26 counties, there is a poor part and a richer part. South Galway, Mid Cork, East Limerick, South Kerry, North Kildare, North Wicklow, North Carlow, South Leitrim, West Sligo, mid Kilkenny, etc. are all examples of comparatively rich areas (with the other parts of each county the poor part). Each of the richer areas are situated near a city or a thriving county town. Some counties like Donegal, Wexford, Waterford, Monaghan, Offaly, etc. seem to be mostly poor. Mayo apart from Westport is in my view of the poorest county.

Cen taurus

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

This is so true. Dublin is supposed to be a hub of activity that facilitates a huge area incorporating Wexford to the south and South Leitrim to the north. All within a 2 hour distance. People go from these areas to work in or near Dublin. Start moving outside of this radius to areas not close to any major city, you notice how poor places become. Some areas are serviced by other cities like Cork, Limerick, Galway, etc. And some by major thriving towns like Sligo, Westport, Carrick on Shannon, Longford, etc. Now, this is where trends are replicated:

1. There is a divide between the rich Dublin area and the poorer rest of Ireland.
2. There is a divide between the rich Dublin southside and poor, deprived northside.
3. Within each of the 26 counties, there is a poor part and a richer part. South Galway, Mid Cork, East Limerick, South Kerry, North Kildare, North Wicklow, North Carlow, South Leitrim, West Sligo, mid Kilkenny, etc. are all examples of comparatively rich areas (with the other parts of each county the poor part). Each of the richer areas are situated near a city or a thriving county town. Some counties like Donegal, Wexford, Waterford, Monaghan, Offaly, etc. seem to be mostly poor. Mayo apart from Westport is in my view of the poorest county.

It's a strange situation all right. Can you imagine if Britain refused to develop any major city or infrastructure that was not within 2 hours of London and serving London, and developed their Motorway network with only London in mind. Even the British, 140 years ago served the most rural areas of Ireland and Scotland with the then latest railways and infrastructure. Scotland went on to become extremely successful and a net contributor to the economy, dispelling this 'rural' myth nonsense. Meanwhile the Irish government decided to rip out the railways in many areas of regional Ireland and introduce a moratorium on any regional development. This shouldn't be about Dublin Vs Regional Ireland, this should be about not making the same mistakes over and over again, and all working together to make team Ireland work. No team would ever succeed by only concentrating resources on a few of its players.

BuilderPlumber

Cen taurus wrote: »

It's a strange situation all right. Can you imagine if Britain refused to develop any major city or infrastructure that was not within 2 hours of London and serving London, and developed their Motorway network with only London in mind. Even the British, 140 years ago served the most rural areas of Ireland and Scotland with the then latest railways and infrastructure. Scotland went on to become extremely successful and a net contributor to he economy, dispelling this 'rural' myth nonsense. Meanwhile the Irish government decided to rip out the railways in many areas of regional Ireland and introduce a moratorium on any regional development. This shouldn't be about Dublin Vs Regional Ireland, this should be about not making the same mistakes over and over again, and all working together to make team Ireland work. No team would ever succeed by only concentrating resources on a few of its players.

Exactly. The same as the public v private sector arguments, the Dublin v the rest is put out there to divert attention for whatever reason. What is needed is Dublin, other cities, regional towns and rural areas all doing something that supports the entire country.

The UK has always thought things through and have been way ahead with regard to regional development. The talking up the railway lines was the closing of the post offices of its time. All these stupid decisions were made and it is a real problem here: shorttermism and Ireland makes the same mistake. Do something to solve one problem and then create 2 more problems!

Frank O. Pinion

MayoForSam wrote: »

What's the point in living in a fantastic mansion when all around you is decay and the road off in the distance will only serve as an escape route for your children?

Isolation. Beautiful, glorious, peaceful isolation.

CatFromHue

Did the show give any possible solutions?

I don't remember any.

John_Rambo

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

isolation.

Do you have or intend to have kids?