Ewes eating wool inside

Connemara Farmer

Bit of a problem, I've only thirteen ewes inside, all carrying twins. One has gone off her grub so have her outside the main two pens in her own space. The remaining twelve have been split into two pens according to body condition as there was a little bit of bullying going on.

So each ewe has approx 18+ square feet of space. Straw, which they're eating is constantly available to them. They have lots of fresh water.

3-4 ewes are pulling wool off other ewes and eating it.

Some ideas which have been mentioned lack of roughage, not a problem I think, too tight, not a problem either IMO. Lack of zinc? Possible issue, though it is mentioned on the feed label.

Going to ring the vet in the morning.

In the mean time, thoughts and ideas?

cuff92

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Bit of a problem, I've only thirteen ewes inside, all carrying twins. One has gone off her grub so have her outside the main two pens in her own space. The remaining twelve have been split into two pens according to body condition as there was a little bit of bullying going on.

So each ewe has approx 18+ square feet of space. Straw, which they're eating is constantly available to them. They have lots of fresh water.

3-4 ewes are pulling wool off other ewes and eating it.

Some ideas which have been mentioned lack of roughage, not a problem I think, too tight, not a problem either IMO. Lack of zinc? Possible issue, though it is mentioned on the feed label.

Going to ring the vet in the morning.

In the mean time, thoughts and ideas?

There doin it because there bored. Happens a lot to us . This is what we put it down to any way we are

ganmo

Can you put up a pic of the ration label?
I'd be leaning towards the fibre

greysides

In cattle there's two forms of Ketosis, the 'Drop in milk' kind and the nervous kind. In the nervous type the major sign is licking at themselves. It's a kind of dementia brought on by low blood glucose. Cattle get ketosis after calving, at least dairy cows do; sheep get it before lambing- it's Twin Lamb Disease.

I haven't come across sheep eating wool as a particular problem before so this is just a guess but I wondering if they have a mild form of Twin Lamb Disease, especially with one already gone off their feed?

Twin Lamb Disease is a flock problem, the clinical cases are just the tip of the iceberg.

Some people can smell the sweet smell of ketones off their breath, others can't, but there are Ketostix available to detect it in the urine. So it should be an easy guess to prove or disprove.

Connemara Farmer

To make matters more complicated there is a ration, and a nut. I had the ration bought when I was advised of a potential copper issue due to the rate of feeding on a straw diet. The only other feed the merchant had was the nut so I was advised to mix them 50-50 or better in favour of the nut.

eire23

Often see the sheep here looseing a bit of wool after housing but never eating it.
When are they due to lamb? Was told before thats its a bad job to house sheep just before lambing, because the change of diet and i suppose the last 2-3 weeks is the ewes nutritional requirement are at its greatest? Might be nothing in it though.

The fact that soya bean is below mollasses and palm kernal in that nut would put me off straight away, Mollasses gennerally makes up 7% of the composition so theres very little soya in it. Palm kernal is basically rubbish, just a filler.

On the ration the distellers grains i think is the only source of protein in the ration (I think) and again i think it wouldnt be a patch on soya but i could well be wrong. The rest of it seems to be made of energy sources and not protein for want of a better description.

Bullocks

I'm far from an expert but I wonder is it a big change on your ewes to be in like that especially as they are used to the hill , maybe they are bored and plucking at the wool instead of the usual foraging they would be at on the hill

Connemara Farmer

Fully agree both feed stuffs are rubbish, I consulted an expert in that area and when asked, said they would buy "neither". However, they're the only ones available in this area and merchant got highly strung when told about the issues. I will have to struggle on with them this year, but there will be a good feed sourced next year even if I have to rent a van and drive to the mill.

Five of them should start lambing in the next few days, they were let with the new ram to keep him quiet. The rest at the end of the month. I housed the twins because I'm not fully satisfied a four legged fox stole all of my twins year before last. Rumour on the grapevine is young lambs were being taken to be fostered on to another farmers ewes that had lost their own lambs.

Today and this evening I have been watching another ewe, a possible candidate for going off her feed also. However she did spend a long while rifling through the bale of straw and eating what she got. The one already gone off her feed ate the little I gave her, she also ate hay, and I have been giving her ivy as well.

Connemara Farmer

Bullocks wrote: »

I'm far from an expert but I wonder is it a big change on your ewes to be in like that especially as they are used to the hill , maybe they are bored and plucking at the wool instead of the usual foraging they would be at on the hill

Dad housed hill ewes for years, only once had the wool eating. There was something on the label that hadn't been included in the ration. Rep came out and basically admitted fault and what can we do for you.

Bullocks

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Dad housed hill ewes for years, only once had the wool eating. There was something on the label that hadn't been included in the ration. Rep came out and basically admitted fault and what can we do for you.

Would a lick bucket help replace what they aren't getting from the nuts ?

Connemara Farmer

Bullocks wrote: »

Would a lick bucket help replace what they aren't getting from the nuts ?

Possibly, but they eat them bloody things like sweets. I'd rather find and address the problem than cover it up if you get me.

Also, price them yokes per ton, scary.

eire23

If improving the ration/nuts was an issue could ya get some bags of loose soya from your co-op and mix it up through the nuts at feeding time?

Username John

Could you buy a bag of soya bean meal and mix some in with the ration to up the protein Con?

Connemara Farmer

Yeah I can get soya, never have but I know it's for sale locally.

eire23

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Yeah I can get soya, never have but I know it's for sale locally.

Done that here two years ago as weren't happy with how the ewes were milking. Made a huge difference. On closer inspection of the ingredients of the nuts it wasn't suprising they weren't milking great!

Cran

Are the ewes just letting them pick the straw from the bedding? If so maybe set-up a straw rake a put some straw in to see if they would pick at that instead of the other ewes ???? O and those rations are poor, have you no option to buy a straight ewe nut normally are more designed towards in-lamb ewes.

Connemara Farmer

Cran wrote: »

Are the ewes just letting them pick the straw from the bedding? If so maybe set-up a straw rake a put some straw in to see if they would pick at that instead of the other ewes ???? O and those rations are poor, have you no option to buy a straight ewe nut normally are more designed towards in-lamb ewes.

They have access to a round bale of straw through a DIY feeder, not rationing the straw at all they can have as much as they want.

I was in the tunnel all day doing a few bits and saw two pull at wool again.

No option on ration I'm afraid, had words with merchant, will thoroughly check out other options next time, not at all happy with what was said.

Anyway, rang vet this morning. Ewes going off food, suspect twin lamb disease. So everything got Glycerine. Also gave everything a cobalt dose as I am late with bolus.

Affected animals to get Glycerine for three days, call him if that doesn't work or things get worse.

Today I notice a lot of coughing :rolleyes: One ewe went down, gave her more Glycerine and also Calciject - as she went down in a way that would lead you to think nothing lost here. Separated her out into a 5x5 pen.

I'm surprised nothing has died yet !

Some good news, my cheviot ewe looks a lot brighter, eating hay, still not overly keen on ration.

rangler1

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

They have access to a round bale of straw through a DIY feeder, not rationing the straw at all they can have as much as they want.

I was in the tunnel all day doing a few bits and saw two pull at wool again.

No option on ration I'm afraid, had words with merchant, will thoroughly check out other options next time, not at all happy with what was said.

Anyway, rang vet this morning. Ewes going off food, suspect twin lamb disease. So everything got Glycerine. Also gave everything a cobalt dose as I am late with bolus.

Affected animals to get Glycerine for three days, call him if that doesn't work or things get worse.

Today I notice a lot of coughing :rolleyes: One ewe went down, gave her more Glycerine and also Calciject - as she went down in a way that would lead you to think nothing lost here. Separated her out into a 5x5 pen.

I'm surprised nothing has died yet !

Some good news, my cheviot ewe looks a lot brighter, eating hay, still not overly keen on ration.

Sometimes a change of environment too near lambing brings on TLD, I'd let them out and bring them in at night to get used to the tunnel. Every change has to be gradual so near lambing

Connemara Farmer

rangler1 wrote: »

Sometimes a change of environment too near lambing brings on TLD, I'd let them out and bring them in at night to get used to the tunnel. Every change has to be gradual so near lambing

I thought about letting them out yesterday, could it cause other issues? With the weather they may come in wet, pneumonia etc

rangler1

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

I thought about letting them out yesterday, could it cause other issues? With the weather they may come in wet, pneumonia etc

Supposed to be clearing after lunch time, I' think I'd let them out for a short while and try not let them get wet, even an hour should help them, they must be getting stressed

Connemara Farmer

rangler1 wrote: »

Supposed to be clearing after lunch time, I' think I'd let them out for a short while and try not let them get wet.

Saw that on the forecast alright, sure I'll give it a go!

Connemara Farmer

All out, will reduce feed and attempt to get them in each night.

Making problems for myself :rolleyes:

Connemara Farmer

Just off the phone, very interesting conversation. I'd noticed, besides the wool eating, the ewes had been nibbling at the wooden pen gates. I didn't pass much remarks, thought it might be like a lamb testing out new surroundings. So we were talking and apparently straw that is sprayed off with roundup type products is harder for the ewes stomach to break down (I don't know whether the straw I got was sprayed off or not). With the high starch content of the overall diet the stomach basically tells the ewes, either stop eating, or stop eating so much of this stuff. So the wool eating and pen chewing may be in fact a fibre related problem after all.

Ewes going off their food is related to that, but mostly a shepherd induced problem, ahem.

Two issues now. How to proceed, and foxes.

I expect a number of these ewes to start lambing from tonight. Obviously I don't want to leave them do it outside given I've done no fox shooting (cos my ewes were going to lamb indoors...........).

So the plan is now to back off on feed, and build back up over ten days, having the ewes outdoors as much as possible during that time. I'll also introduce hay into the diet. Keep them in at night when possible after their evening feed, with a choice of hay and straw. It was suggested to gradually wean off hay and back onto straw again, I'm not sure whether I'll do that or not, I may just buy hay as I'd rather not have this problem again.

Thoughts on all that? Besides fire the shepherd

Twin lamb disease will be an issue having let them out again also.

rangler1

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Just off the phone, very interesting conversation. I'd noticed, besides the wool eating, the ewes had been nibbling at the wooden pen gates. I didn't pass much remarks, thought it might be like a lamb testing out new surroundings. So we were talking and apparently straw that is sprayed off with roundup type products is harder for the ewes stomach to break down (I don't know whether the straw I got was sprayed off or not). With the high starch content of the overall diet the stomach basically tells the ewes, either stop eating, or stop eating so much of this stuff. So the wool eating and pen chewing may be in fact a fibre related problem after all.

Ewes going off their food is related to that, but mostly a shepherd induced problem, ahem.

Two issues now. How to proceed, and foxes.

I expect a number of these ewes to start lambing from tonight. Obviously I don't want to leave them do it outside given I've done no fox shooting (cos my ewes were going to lamb indoors...........).

So the plan is now to back off on feed, and build back up over ten days, having the ewes outdoors as much as possible during that time. I'll also introduce hay into the diet. Keep them in at night when possible after their evening feed, with a choice of hay and straw. It was suggested to gradually wean off hay and back onto straw again, I'm not sure whether I'll do that or not, I may just buy hay as I'd rather not have this problem again.

Thoughts on all that? Besides fire the shepherd

Twin lamb disease will be an issue having let them out again also.

All the straw that I buy locally is sprayed with roundup, that blows that theory out of the water.
The only theory I'd have is what I referred to earlier, there's a lot of Oats in my ration and it just might be a help.....on saying that I used Greenvale ewe ration with straw for a few years and it was fine.
Using Greenvale creep for the lambs with straw and it's working very well......and they're not eating wooden troughs etc

Sheep breeder

most of the straw we use is burnt straw and never a problem here, the major problems is the poor ration and changing hill ewes straight in to a tunnel,
did the ewes go in damp in the wool or dry.

Connemara Farmer

Changing the ewes diet too much too fast, going from a lower level of feeding outdoors to higher indoors, is pretty much agreed by all including myself to be the cause of the major problem.

The ewes went in bone dry.

The ewe that went down indoors also went down outside last night. Carried her back down and into the tunnel. Won't be back there for another 20 mins or so but I'd be very surprised if she's still alive.

Connemara Farmer

To my surprise she was standing and chewing a bit of hay this morning. Cut some ivy for her also. Have three others indoors today as they seem OK and it's not the driest day here. Everything else is out, and eating the lower amount at the trough. If they come through this without losses I'll be bloody delighted.

rangler1

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

To my surprise she was standing and chewing a bit of hay this morning. Cut some ivy for her also. Have three others indoors today as they seem OK and it's not the driest day here. Everything else is out, and eating the lower amount at the trough. If they come through this without losses I'll be bloody delighted.

Have often said here to have sheep used to their indoor ration before they go in.

Connemara Farmer

rangler1 wrote: »

Have often said here to have sheep used to their indoor ration before they go in.

Yeah, it was the jump in amounts caused the issue. My sheep were never shy about eating but the levels upset them.

Zoo4m8

Would strongly agree with other posts,particularly with hill ewes, leave out during the day and bring in at night. When I was at it because of space restrictions that's how we worked, often came in at night wringing wet and never a problem, well ventilated house though..
Feeding straw bothers me..only ever fed hay but were lowland ewes and I'd be the first to admit that at a few years away from it I'm probably well out of touch!

Bullocks

rangler1 wrote: »

Have often said here to have sheep used to their indoor ration before they go in.

In fairness you did , I had the weighing scales out and went exactly with what you said and hadn't a bother thankfully. If I didn't they would have been swelled because I would have been over feeding them massively

Username John

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

To my surprise she was standing and chewing a bit of hay this morning. Cut some ivy for her also. Have three others indoors today as they seem OK and it's not the driest day here. Everything else is out, and eating the lower amount at the trough. If they come through this without losses I'll be bloody delighted.

Not meaning to bring you down - but I had a ewe went down there a few weeks ago, similar situation.

Brought her in, gave her calcium, life-aid, ivy - the usual craic.

I thought she was improving, she was eating a bit of ration, picking at hay - things were looking up I though - til I went out the next morning, and she was stretched out :mad:

My missus had a theory that she was some sort of diabetic, and the fodder beet didn't agree with her, and she put too much into the lambs and they grew too big (Cos she seemed very big, so far from lambing) I dunno... She gone now anyways.

Connemara Farmer

Username John wrote: »

Not meaning to bring you down - but I had a ewe went down there a few weeks ago, similar situation.

Brought her in, gave her calcium, life-aid, ivy - the usual craic.

I thought she was improving, she was eating a bit of ration, picking at hay - things were looking up I though - til I went out the next morning, and she was stretched out :mad:

My missus had a theory that she was some sort of diabetic, and the fodder beet didn't agree with her, and she put too much into the lambs and they grew too big (Cos she seemed very big, so far from lambing) I dunno... She gone now anyways.

She's far from out of the woods yet, but I was really expecting a corpse this morning, I had gone Googling alternative knackeries to "Mr Colour" due to his extortionate prices, before I went back to the tunnel.

I'll leave her in now and be very conservative with her, hay, ivy, water, offer a little ration, calciject and glycerine at the ready.

The ewes outdoors are encouraging, two left the trough early yesterday and I was a bit But this morning not only did all of them stay until the ration was eaten, they actively fought for places (they have twice the space they need).

The others indoors seem OK, I put up a little hay feeder, so they have ration twice daily as well as free access to straw, hay and water which is cleaned twice daily.

rangler1

Bullocks wrote: »

In fairness you did , I had the weighing scales out and went exactly with what you said and hadn't a bother thankfully. If I didn't they would have been swelled because I would have been over feeding them massively

Good to hear it, I just relate the feeding levels I've been using for the last few years. It's hard to get it right, firstly you have to feed well enough to have good lambs and milk, yet you don't want to have lambs too big and hard lambings.

tabby aspreme

used to have ewes nibbling each other's wool here when they were being fed meal in troughs in the yard, it was always around the back of the head and neck with the ewes standing beside each other both nibbling at each other, out of each batch of 50 there could be 10 pairs doing it , took me a while to realise they were picking bits of meal out of the others wool which would have fallen on the ewes opposite them as they raised their heads while eating, now that there being fed at barriers it no longer happens, looked strange at the time like monkeys grooming each other

MayoAreMagic

Id say just too much messing con. The straw might be fine, but had your ewes ever had it before to all of a sudden, be getting it as their only roughage? It is like you going onto a diet of nothing but indian food, it might be fine for people who are used to it, but Id say you or I might have issues at the start . Change to meal, going inside, as you has said yourself, prob just too much. Id keep the hay available to them as an option, it seems to have had a positive effect.

Don't worry, they will be lambing soon and that enthusiasm will be all but sucked out of you after a couple of weeks

Connemara Farmer

So far so good, the ewes outdoors are eating and competing at the trough according to the new plan. The three indoors seem fine to me, hay available to them. The ewe that had gone down is eating ivy, nibbling hay and actually ate 3-400gm's of ration last night.

rangler1

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

So far so good, the ewes outdoors are eating and competing at the trough according to the new plan. The three indoors seem fine to me, hay available to them. The ewe that had gone down is eating ivy, nibbling hay and actually ate 3-400gm's of ration last night.

I've ewe lambs carrying doubles here due the same time as yours, I weighed their ration yesterday, they're getting 25lb/day between nine and they're only averaging 52kgs weight themselves, they're eating 2.7 lbs/day or if I put a creep feeder out with lambs in the autumn, they'd be eating 2.5lbs/day in no time....... makes me wonder just how much you fed to sicken them

Connemara Farmer

rangler1 wrote: »

I've ewe lambs carrying doubles here due the same time as yours, I weighed their ration yesterday, they're getting 25lb/day between nine and they're only averaging 52kgs weight themselves, they're eating 2.7 lbs/day or if I put a creep feeder out with lambs in the autumn, they'd be eating 2.5lbs/day in no time....... makes me wonder just how much you fed to sicken them

The ones to lamb first were getting 1kg per day, split into two equal feeds morning and night.

The next lot to start lambing by the end of the month were getting 0.7kg per day split into equal feeds morning and night.

It was all weighed each time.