Boards.ie Now Shills For Paddy Power

JONJO THE MISER

Over on the sponsored thread forum I see boards.ie have a affiliate link for Paddy Power.
Basically the way this works is boards.ie will get 30% of all losses made by any boards user that signs up, so the more money the user losses the more money they get.
Of course if you win over a short period you will be banned by P.P as they only want loosing accounts.
What a beautiful way boards.ie is treating its users, having a vested interest in its users loosing money and the more the better.
I expect this thread will be locked.

Fey!

Interesting figures.

Can you give us links to where they came from?

Baggy Trousers

Have you a link to this forum?

GLaDOS

Not suitable for After Hours

Moved to Feedback

Birneybau

Link?

JONJO THE MISER

Link:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057392430

I think this is a bloody disgrace, gambling is a huge problem in Ireland and now boards wants to profit off other people loosing money.
Morally wrong to treat its users like this.

_Kaiser_

Link to the thread is here Only applies to new PP accounts

Don't know if what the OP claims is true/accurate myself but you'd have to presume Boards is getting something out of it which is fair enough really - whether it's "socially acceptable/responsible" or not is a different question, but something I presume Boards.ie management thought about before accepting the deal.

Where's the link to the 30% of losses going to boards?

JONJO THE MISER

I know the % affiliates get, its plain to see for all on paddypoweraffiliates.com,
30% of all losses.

_Kaiser_

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

I know the % affiliates get, its plain to see for all on paddypoweraffiliates.com,
30% of all losses.

Linky not working - think this is the one you want: http://www.paddypartners.com/

All I can see there (under About Us) is that:

And, we pay proper commission – up to 45% - to all our affiliates.

But the actual number doesn't matter really... as I said above, it depends on whether you consider promoting gambling as "socially responsible" or not.

hullaballoo

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

I know the % affiliates get, its plain to see for all on paddypoweraffiliates.com,
30% of all losses.

404.

JONJO THE MISER

Its seems P.P have lowered its commission to 25% on its sports book but is 25%-45% in its games and casino section.
http://gaffg.com/affiliate-programs/paddy-partners-review/

The Hill Billy

It is a commercial agreement that has been advertised openly - where's the shilling?

If you don't want to bet - don't.

I really can't see the issue here.

JONJO THE MISER

The Hill Billy wrote: »

It is a commercial agreement that has been advertised openly - where's the shilling?

If you don't want to bet - don't.

I really can't see the issue here.

I can, its hoping that users will loose money so they can make a profit, preying on people.
People need to wake up to how P.P and there ilk operate, there is no level playing field, if you win online with them you will be banned but if you loose they will love you and do there level best to get the most money out of you.

Nodin

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

I can, its hoping that users will loose money so they can make a profit, preying on people.
People need to wake up to how P.P and there ilk operate, there is no level playing field, if you win online with them you will be banned but if you loose they will love you and do there level best to get the most money out of you.

Evidence?

The Hill Billy

That is how bookies operate. Like it or lump it.

CosmicSmash

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

I can, its hoping that users will loose money so they can make a profit, preying on people.
People need to wake up to how P.P and there ilk operate, there is no level playing field, if you win online with them you will be banned but if you loose they will love you and do there level best to get the most money out of you.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder over either losing money or winning money and getting banned. Honestly can't make out why it's such a big issue. If it's so morally wrong should boards delete any thread or forum where gambling is discussed?

seamus

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

I can, its hoping that users will loose money so they can make a profit, preying on people.

"Prey" presumes that there's a victim.

Nobody gambles money without the knowledge that they may lose it. People choose to gamble, they choose to lose their money on bad bets. Just because you personally have some issue with bookies, doesn't mean that boards should share that.

In terms of the "unsavoury" businesses, gambling is actually one the fairest to the end-consumer because the competition is fierce and cuththroat. So bookies don't get away with offering awful odds or screwing people over.

Mint Aero

I won a couple of grand on PP online before. I wasn't banned.

LuckyLloyd

Nodin wrote: »

Evidence?

Mint Aero wrote: »

I won a couple of grand on PP online before. I wasn't banned.

Regular winning accounts will be closed and the holder's business declined. This is not a secret within the industry. Of course, a new account can come on and bink a score on very bad value bet. They wouldn't be banned or - to be clear - any account that makes consistently -EV bets wouldn't be banned as PP will be confident (with good reason) that if such a punter keeps making such bets the money will be recovered with interest.

But if you are a punter who maintains a profitable account and a disciplined +EV betting history and / or you have superb connections that give you an inside track your account will be highlighted and closed sooner or later.

duffman13

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

I can, its hoping that users will loose money so they can make a profit, preying on people.
People need to wake up to how P.P and there ilk operate, there is no level playing field, if you win online with them you will be banned but if you loose they will love you and do there level best to get the most money out of you.

If you feel that strongly then a) don't bet or use paddypower and b) stop using boards. It's a commercial agreement between two commercial companies, no big deal, paddy power don't act outside the law so if people want to use there services It doesn't make a difference who advertises with them

LorMal

duffman13 wrote: »

If you feel that strongly then a) don't bet or use paddypower and b) stop using boards. It's a commercial agreement between two commercial companies, no big deal, paddy power don't act outside the law so if people want to use there services It doesn't make a difference who advertises with them

You are mixing up legality with morality. In many countries (including Ireland) there are plenty of activities that are legal but may not be ethically decent or fair.
Jonjo is totally correct to question the practice of an online community service like Boards advertising gambling to users in the hope of sharing in their losses.

Its legal, its just not a decent way to behave IMHO.

LorMal

The Hill Billy wrote: »

That is how bookies operate. Like it or lump it.

Lump it. Totally.

Dav

We've had advertising relationships with Paddy Power for, it must be going on ten years now, before I joined the company as an employee anyway (which was 6 years ago this week ), hell DeVore used to work for them! We've also had advertising deals with Betfair and William Hill and Boyle Sports and I'm sure plenty other bookies - my apologies to anyone I've left out of that list.

We've had advertising relationships with companies like DID, Irish Rail, etc - are we shilling for them too? How's about our Talk To clients? Do you know what shilling actually is or what the word means, because there is no definition of the word that could apply to this ad campaign. I mean at no stage have we attempted to hide this relationship, it's clearly marked as "sponsored" and so on, so there can be no ambiguity about the fact that this is a business/advertising deal. How is that shilling?

So lets maybe reign in the hyperbole and just ask a question (where we're likely to see it rather than where it's likely to generate as much outrage as possible because of half-truths and wild assumptions).

For the record, the way this particular campaign with Paddy Power works is that if you sign up a new PP account via clicking the link here on Boards, we get a percentage of your first bet *AND* a percentage of any, wait for it, *WINNING* bets that new customer makes.

If you have questions about ads, we've always been here to answer them as best we can.

duffman13

LorMal wrote: »

You are mixing up legality with morality. In many countries (including Ireland) there are plenty of activities that are legal but may not be ethically decent or fair.
Jonjo is totally correct to question the practice of an online community service like Boards advertising gambling to users in the hope of sharing in their losses.

Its legal, its just not a decent way to behave IMHO.

I see your point but the question of morality is somewhat stretching. I've seen banner advertisements for wine on boards before is that questionable because a portion of users of the site my have had issues with alcohol? If people don't believe or don't want to use a bookie nobody is forcing them, the amount of pop up ads on other sites I've had for bet 365 is crazy, this is not even massively in your face. If you have an issue with any ads just ignore it.

LuckyLloyd

There's no issue with Boards engaging with Paddy Power as described by Dav imo.

LorMal

duffman13 wrote: »

I see your point but the question of morality is somewhat stretching. I've seen banner advertisements for wine on boards before is that questionable because a portion of users of the site my have had issues with alcohol? If people don't believe or don't want to use a bookie nobody is forcing them, the amount of pop up ads on other sites I've had for bet 365 is crazy, this is not even massively in your face. If you have an issue with any ads just ignore it.

Yes I do understand your point and it is well made. I have an online business myself but I would not affiliate with PP because I really dislike gambling as a business. It essentially trades in misery. (The very clever marketing would have us believe it is providing an entertainment service - I don't buy that).

No one is being forced to gamble. However many innocent families suffer as a result of it. I think it is appalling how it is normalized in this country. Not so in most other European countries where they see it for what it is.

LorMal

Dav wrote: »

We've had advertising relationships with Paddy Power for, it must be going on ten years now, before I joined the company as an employee anyway (which was 6 years ago this week ), hell DeVore used to work for them! We've also had advertising deals with Betfair and William Hill and Boyle Sports and I'm sure plenty other bookies - my apologies to anyone I've left out of that list.

We've had advertising relationships with companies like DID, Irish Rail, etc - are we shilling for them too? How's about our Talk To clients? Do you know what shilling actually is or what the word means, because there is no definition of the word that could apply to this ad campaign. I mean at no stage have we attempted to hide this relationship, it's clearly marked as "sponsored" and so on, so there can be no ambiguity about the fact that this is a business/advertising deal. How is that shilling?

So lets maybe reign in the hyperbole and just ask a question (where we're likely to see it rather than where it's likely to generate as much outrage as possible because of half-truths and wild assumptions).

For the record, the way this particular campaign with Paddy Power works is that if you sign up a new PP account via clicking the link here on Boards, we get a percentage of your first bet *AND* a percentage of any, wait for it, *WINNING* bets that new customer makes.

If you have questions about ads, we've always been here to answer them as best we can.

Very generous of Paddy Power there. Wonder why they do that???

JONJO THE MISER

Dav wrote: »

We've had advertising relationships with Paddy Power for, it must be going on ten years now, before I joined the company as an employee anyway (which was 6 years ago this week ), hell DeVore used to work for them! We've also had advertising deals with Betfair and William Hill and Boyle Sports and I'm sure plenty other bookies - my apologies to anyone I've left out of that list.

We've had advertising relationships with companies like DID, Irish Rail, etc - are we shilling for them too? How's about our Talk To clients? Do you know what shilling actually is or what the word means, because there is no definition of the word that could apply to this ad campaign. I mean at no stage have we attempted to hide this relationship, it's clearly marked as "sponsored" and so on, so there can be no ambiguity about the fact that this is a business/advertising deal. How is that shilling?

So lets maybe reign in the hyperbole and just ask a question (where we're likely to see it rather than where it's likely to generate as much outrage as possible because of half-truths and wild assumptions).

For the record, the way this particular campaign with Paddy Power works is that if you sign up a new PP account via clicking the link here on Boards, we get a percentage of your first bet *AND* a percentage of any, wait for it, *WINNING* bets that new customer makes.

If you have questions about ads, we've always been here to answer them as best we can.

That is the first time i ever heard such a structure for a affiliate partner getting a percentage of a winning bet, it works on how much they loose not how much they win, can you prove otherwise, i highly doubt it.
The fact is the more money a member of boards looses by clicking the link the more boards stands to gain, you can dress it up how you like but that is the bottom line.
Advertising for Irish rail and the like is totally different than advertising for P.P
and anybody can see that.
Just because its legal to do such campaigns does not make it ethical.

hullaballoo

You're making the mistake of thinking that people don't enjoy gambling. I'd never deny that there are people who have issues with it - I've seen how destructive a gambling problem is first hand.

But the majority of people who bet are doing so for the fun of it and doing it with money they can afford to throw away.

I like to put a bet on here and there and I have done so for years but I've never taken it seriously or put more than I can afford at risk.

efb

Boards aren't a nanny

JONJO THE MISER

LorMal wrote: »

Very generous of Paddy Power there. Wonder why they do that???

They dont, never heard of such a agreement in affiliate marketing, in fact if the customer wins you dont get any commission until they have a net loss.
You can dress it any way you like but it is profiting in other peoples misery.

hullaballoo

Well, they're profiting from my fun so fair play to them.

Tombi!

JONJO, let me understand this properly. You think one thing (Boards only makes money if the people lose) and Dav stated another thing (Boards makes money if the people win).

But after you quote the message you want him to prove it, then go on to not even give him a chance and state it's a "fact" that the more people lose, the more Boards wins.

You're coming across as you having a personal issue with PP here. I get that like many other gambling sites, if you win a lot, your account is closed and I've heard some horror stories of winnings not being paid on to online accounts but would you not bother waiting for Dav to show his proof (assuming he has any; I'm not saying he's right or you're right here) instead of acting like he's lying?

LorMal

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

They dont, never heard of such a agreement in affiliate marketing, in fact if the customer wins you dont get any commission until they have a net loss.
You can dress it any way you like but it is profiting in other peoples misery.

I beieve Dav is telling the truth. I imagine the reason PP pay a % of the first bet and a % of the winnings of a first bet is twofold:

1. They know that once someone opens an account with them they are more likely to bet again
2. Not many bets are winning bets

In the long run, PP only make money of peoples losses. They can only pay for Affiliates with money from peoples losses. Its all the same in the end.

Dav

Wow.

I mean wow.

I tell you what the story is, you insist that just because you personally have never run into a deal like this, it mustn't be true? Well, it takes a special kind of logic to come to those sorts of conclusions.

We're done.

Jonjo, the next time you want to accuse me of being a liar, step away from the keyboard and take a deep breath and then move on to something else.

Boards.ie: Sean

So, we here in Boards.ie, need to make a clarification and an apology to this thread and to our members in general. There were some crossed wires in the office last Friday when we were discussing this topic (something we do regularly when our members raise questions about how we run the site). It was communicated to Dav that we get paid a commission when Boardsies, who are new sign ups to Paddy Power, place a winning bet. This is incorrect, we actually get paid a commission on any earnings Paddy Power generate from users of their site, i.e. when the person places a losing bet.

So firstly, sorry to everyone for the incorrect information, it was a mix up in communication rather then intentional (hence this post clarifying things). And apologies in particular to Jonjo (you were right about the payment structure) and to Dav (who is a completely innocent party in all of this).

On the broader issue of promoting Paddy Power on Boards, I would make the point that we have always had gambling ads running on the site and in that sense this is nothing new. The one difference is that we also included a sponsored thread in this case, mainly driven by the fact that we want to let Broadsies know if there's any special offers that are only available to them. As a general principle we like to highlight to our members any special offers and we'd take exactly the same approach for any other offers that may come along ... this is not unique to Paddy Power or specific to gambling.

Lastly, we fully appreciate that some of our members may disagree with our approach, particularly around areas such as gambling, while others agree. We welcome the discussion and debate as these things do actually influence our own thinking and decisions around things such as advertising and promotion.

Thanks and sorry again for the mix-up,
Sean Coughlan
CEO, Boards.ie