Land prices

handlemaster

will the abolishing of the milk quota raise land selling or rental prices generally or has all that been factored into current prices ?

handlemaster

bumpty bump

I said

I can't afford land and even if I could returns are piss poor,beef and sheep forget it dairy only keeping bank manager happy over the lifetime of loan.

Reggie.

I said wrote: »

I can't afford land and even if I could returns are piss poor,beef and sheep forget it dairy only keeping bank manager happy over the lifetime of loan.

Now ya said it. Would love to increase but it's the land that holding me back

Muckit

Waste bits for planting might give some return if bought at small money. Outside that forget about it If you are part time and drystock.

Whatever you'd be buying you'd need to either have the money or be able to pay back over 5 years

have2flushtwice

If you were expanding to make money, why invest your cash/loan in a 20 year investment, it will be 20 years before the land is paid for, and then you will hopefully make some returns. its a long time in my opinion. some will be hoping to hand it over to another generation - I can understand that logic.

Considering the possible rotation of enterprises its difficult to see land in the same use over a 20year timeframe, with the exception of forestry.

what I mean by rotation of enterprises, beef was huge 2 or 3 years ago, with people paying crazy money, then some moving into dairy. useof land may change to tillage. it would want to be land that's adaptable if the planned value of return per acre was to be maintained.

_Brian

From what I see many are near 40's wen they get into a position to buy land. So say 20yr repayment they're near retiring age when it's paid for.
Many times it's bought for the benifet of the next generation.

Farmer Pudsey

_Brian wrote: »

From what I see many are near 40's wen they get into a position to buy land. So say 20yr repayment they're near retiring age when it's paid for.
Many times it's bought for the benifet of the next generation.

So

Greengrass1

_Brian wrote: »

From what I see many are near 40's wen they get into a position to buy land. So say 20yr repayment they're near retiring age when it's paid for.
Many times it's bought for the benifet of the next generation.

Doesn't mean money isn't made off
I see loads in my area buying land and it definitely isn't holding back there business.

Ye have to be on the ball though if your going to pay for it out of farming.

If your willed a farm it makes it very easy to buy more land.

handlemaster

has the land values been increasing over the last two years? housing prices and land prices usually go hand in hand

Username John

handlemaster wrote: »

has the land values been increasing over the last two years? housing prices and land prices usually go hand in hand

Do the farmers journal not have an annual report on land prices by county? That should tell you.

You seem especially keen to find out if land values have increased, so I'm guessing you're on the selling side

djmc

It really depends on a number of factors location land type agri or development land etc. And land quality
Development land would have fallen the most since the property crash good agricultural land is always in demand so it wouldn't have fallen as much
Land on mountains and degesnated lands spa etc wouldn't have much value compared to Dublin

happy_knome

handlemaster wrote: »

has the land values been increasing over the last two years? housing prices and land prices usually go hand in hand

houses are up around 40% in dublin since the beginning of 2012

farm land isnt up anywhere close to that , in fact it hasnt moved much at all since 2012

land didnt fall as steeply as housing however during the crash

have2flushtwice

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Doesn't mean money isn't made off
I see loads in my area buying land and it definitely isn't holding back there business.

Ye have to be on the ball though if your going to pay for it out of farming.

If your willed a farm it makes it very easy to buy more land.

how is it easier?

Greengrass1

have2flushtwice wrote: »

how is it easier?

How is it not?
ye get some start basicly free land in a context vs buying land.
Took parents here 40 yrs to get to same size as people that started out at same time Who inherited.

Sure won't I get some start 'if' I inherit it?
It's easy add a field to a farm

Ps I don't begrudge anyone that inherited land

have2flushtwice

Greengrass1 wrote: »

How is it not?
ye get some start basicly free land in a context vs buying land.
Took parents here 40 yrs to get to same size as people that started out at same time Who inherited.

Sure won't I get some start 'if' I inherit it?
It's easy add a field to a farm

Ps I don't begrudge anyone that inherited land

Sorry GG, I thought you were implying tax benefits of some kind.
I agree, an inheritance is some boost alright.

Grueller

18.9 acres outside Gorey sold yesterday. Local dairy farmer bought it for €360,000.

ganmo

some ppl have too much money

small_rancher

we wont see land prices averaging 10 k per acre for a good few years , trend is down , when you consider that there is more money in forestry than in anything bar dairying , land prices have no business even being where they are right now , bar a dairy farmer wants it , land prices will drift down for the foreseable furture

farmerjj

small_rancher wrote: »

we wont see land prices averaging 10 k per acre for a good few years , trend is down , when you consider that there is more money in forestry than in anything bar dairying , land prices have no business even being where they are right now , bar a dairy farmer wants it , land prices will drift down for the foreseable furture

Agh but this is Irish land! Stop talking sense..

handlemaster

small_rancher wrote: »

we wont see land prices averaging 10 k per acre for a good few years , trend is down , when you consider that there is more money in forestry than in anything bar dairying , land prices have no business even being where they are right now , bar a dairy farmer wants it , land prices will drift down for the foreseable furture

it all depends who the neighbours are .. most farmers would forsake other things in life to hqve more land thats not going to change anytime soon. The house prices are on there way back up and that plays into land prices also.

Miname

small_rancher wrote: »

we wont see land prices averaging 10 k per acre for a good few years , trend is down , when you consider that there is more money in forestry than in anything bar dairying , land prices have no business even being where they are right now , bar a dairy farmer wants it , land prices will drift down for the foreseable furture

Land prices will stay stable if nothing else. Lads can make enough to pay for it in a lot of ventures not just dairying. I'm sick of listening to lads all making out there's nothing in beef but some can make it work. Let everyone make their own decisions. Land is also like a savings account, it has a value and in the long term should at the very minimum follow inflation. Nobody gives a monkeys about buying a new car that will devalue at a ridiculous rate and keep paying the credit union or finance company their couple of hundred a week but it's a hissy fit over the price of a bit of ground. As for forestry it's a very short sighted return, it'll be very interesting to see what premiums will be paid after the first large amount of trees are knocked and people look at other options.

handlemaster

The land parcels under 30/40 acres seem to be popular particularly in the midlands and west. I dont see any big change on this. I think farmers would rather walk on their money as in land than have it rest in a bank account earning nothing

Timmaay

handlemaster wrote: »

it all depends who the neighbours are .. most farmers would forsake other things in life to hqve more land thats not going to change anytime soon. The house prices are on there way back up and that plays into land prices also.

As long as the once off rural housing policy remains as is farmers will always be able to sell off the odd site to bring in a tidy few quid to pay towards the land. Land prices have almost no bearing on the pure agricultural return, it's down to several other factors, like what you said, the fact that farmers will sacrifice other things in life, combined with their ability to raise the capital.

fepper

Miname wrote: »

Land prices will stay stable if nothing else. Lads can make enough to pay for it in a lot of ventures not just dairying. I'm sick of listening to lads all making out there's nothing in beef but some can make it work. Let everyone make their own decisions. Land is also like a savings account, it has a value and in the long term should at the very minimum follow inflation. Nobody gives a monkeys about buying a new car that will devalue at a ridiculous rate and keep paying the credit union or finance company their couple of hundred a week but it's a hissy fit over the price of a bit of ground. As for forestry it's a very short sighted return, it'll be very interesting to see what premiums will be paid after the first large amount of trees are knocked and people look at other options.

They are no more premiums to be paid to forest landowners after 20 yrs and when you knock all the trees,you have to replant at your expense by law at the moment so ur rite about the short term gain there

Muckit

fepper wrote: »

They are no more premiums to be paid to forest landowners after 20 yrs and when you knock all the trees,you have to replant at your expense by law at the moment so ur rite about the short term gain there

A little knowledge is bad they say. I was looking at this naively thinking lads would be fools not to plant, even buy a bit to plant.

Usually when things appear too good to be true, they are!!! Then l got thinking if the grants were that good sawmills would be buying up land for forestry left right and centre!!

As you have said the catch is when you have to replant the second crop and you are starring down the barrel of 8k plus/acre !!! (Or so l've been told).

kevthegaff

Muckit wrote: »

A little knowledge is bad they say. I was looking at this naively thinking lads would be fools not to plant, even buy a bit to plant.

Usually when things appear too good to be true, they are!!! Then l got thinking if the grants were that good sawmills would be buying up land for forestry left right and centre!!

As you have said the catch is when you have to replant the second crop and you are starring down the barrel of 8k plus/acre !!! (Or so l've been told).

It's the best way to devalue land, forestry! Land across road from me was worth 7k an acre before planted, now I think 2.5-3k

patsy_mccabe

As for forestry devaluing land. €8 million asking price for 1,263 acres in Tipperary and looks like no movement on it.

Kilcooley Estate, Thurles, County Tipperary
http://www.christiesrealestate.com/eng/sales/detail/170-l-78051-1510071109436587/kilcooley-estate-other-ireland-ie

ganmo

Muckit wrote: »

A little knowledge is bad they say. I was looking at this naively thinking lads would be fools not to plant, even buy a bit to plant.

Usually when things appear too good to be true, they are!!! Then l got thinking if the grants were that good sawmills would be buying up land for forestry left right and centre!!

As you have said the catch is when you have to replant the second crop and you are starring down the barrel of 8k plus/acre !!! (Or so l've been told).

Its that bit of legalisation that is making the forestry ground so cheap I reckon, in that it narrows down the number of potential buyers massively

ganmo

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

As for forestry devaluing land. €8 million asking price for 1,263 acres in Tipperary and looks like no movement on it.

Kilcooley Estate, Thurles, County Tipperary
http://www.christiesrealestate.com/eng/sales/detail/170-l-78051-1510071109436587/kilcooley-estate-other-ireland-ie

Wouldn't ya love to be able to buy and restore it

fepper

I'm surprised no one has challenged this obligation to keep your land in forestry forever in the supreme court as it does devalue your land and leaves you with no other options ever!! Any multinational company coming here are also heavily grant aided and subsided while they are here but I'm sure they cant be forced to stay here forever or not to change their line of business in the future !!

ganmo

fepper wrote: »

I'm surprised no one has challenged this obligation to keep your land in forestry forever in the supreme court as it does devalue your land and leaves you with no other options ever!! Any multinational company coming here are also heavily grant aided and subsided while they are here but I'm sure they cant be forced to stay here forever or not to change their line of business in the future !!

it'll only be challenged when the dept try and enforce it.
there are areas of forestry not being planted after being clearfelled in the expectation of another grant being issued, so it could get challenged sooner rather than later

fepper

ganmo wrote: »

it'll only be challenged when the dept try and enforce it.
there are areas of forestry not being planted after being clearfelled in the expectation of another grant being issued, so it could get challenged sooner rather than later

I hope if it is challenged that this outdated piece of legislation is found to be unconstitutional at the very least but I'm sure the state would fight to keep it as is to control supply

Username John

fepper wrote: »

I hope if it is challenged that this outdated piece of legislation is found to be unconstitutional at the very least but I'm sure the state would fight to keep it as is to control supply

Is it supply, or is it something around having x% of the land in forestry?

fepper

Username John wrote: »

Is it supply, or is it something around having x% of the land in forestry?

Well with the amount of forestry planted each year now,it won't go up 2 many %/% in the future

Farrell

Muckit wrote: »

A little knowledge is bad they say. I was looking at this naively thinking lads would be fools not to plant, even buy a bit to plant.

As you have said the catch is when you have to replant the second crop and you are starring down the barrel of 8k plus/acre !!! (Or so l've been told).

There's some land beside me in forestry, owner has just inherited & intends to sell once clear felled.
So this can't be cleared back to agricultural land

Bass Reeves

ganmo wrote: »

Wouldn't ya love to be able to buy and restore it

You would want to win the euro millions by yourself. But ya if i did:P

Farrell wrote: »

There's some land beside me in forestry, owner has just inherited & intends to sell once clear felled.
So this can't be cleared back to agricultural land

In theory yes however you have to replace it with forestry land elsewhere. I have heard of it being done to reclaim good land and land in the west of Ireland was put into forestry. How commercially viable it is well that is another matter. Say 2K/acre for replacement land, 2-3K to restore it, what will it cost to buy.

As well forestry land is very hungry. when you clear fell you strip the land of P&K. This is where forestry fall down as well. First crop is 40 ish year turn around, however next crop will take 60-100 years to grow and this may even be with the aid of fertlizer. Someone posted here that 2nd crop requires about 3 bags/acre of 10.10.20. if you had to do that for 40 years it is 2.5K/acre.

mad_butcher

Timmaay wrote: »

As long as the once off rural housing policy remains as is farmers will always be able to sell off the odd site to bring in a tidy few quid to pay towards the land. Land prices have almost no bearing on the pure agricultural return, it's down to several other factors, like what you said, the fact that farmers will sacrifice other things in life, combined with their ability to raise the capital.

the current rural housing policy is unlikely to continue , its cheaper to buy a house in rural ireland than build one right now and flooding is becoming an issue

handlemaster

People love to build their own house. .. And if that comes with a few acres all the better. .... If planning is gotten on agricultural land after purchase it drives up the selling price

patsy_mccabe

mad_butcher wrote: »

the current rural housing policy is unlikely to continue , its cheaper to buy a house in rural ireland than build one right now and flooding is becoming an issue

Who posts once and then closes their account? :D:D:D:D

ganmo

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Who posts once and then closes their account? :D:D:D:D

prob the same person who posts 4 times and closes their acc

liam7831

Was at an agri Land auction today in Kildare it made €16k an acre

sea12

liam7831 wrote: »

Was at an agri Land auction today in Kildare it made €16k an acre

How many acres. Small lots always make money as more people can get their hands on 200k than 500k do anything between 10 and 25 acres always does well. Especially for part time which most are and have a good job to pay it off

That's s few big auctions this year. One in Wexford made 18k and one in Monaghan made 20k I think it was on Agri land

liam7831

sea12 wrote: »

How many acres. Small lots always make money as more people can get their hands on 200k than 500k do anything between 10 and 25 acres always does well. Especially for part time which most are and have a good job to pay it off

That's s few big auctions this year. One in Wexford made 18k and one in Monaghan made 20k I think it was on Agri land

39acres, 625k :eek:

sea12

liam7831 wrote: »

39acres, 625k :eek:

Must be for development is it?

liam7831

sea12 wrote: »

Must be for development is it?

No down a small quiet road, defo not for development

Cattlepen

liam7831 wrote: »

No down a small quiet road, defo not for development

Was it in kilcock

liam7831

Cattlepen wrote: »

Was it in kilcock

Yep

Cattlepen

liam7831 wrote: »

Yep

It could be a coming town. It has the most amount of virgin land around of any town in the Dublin area. Only thing holding it back is that it's bisected by the Meath Kildare county border. Councils haven't really started to work together

liam7831

Cattlepen wrote: »

It could be a coming town. It has the most amount of virgin land around of any town in the Dublin area. Only thing holding it back is that it's bisected by the Meath Kildare county border. Councils haven't really started to work together

Ya but where the land is means its not suitable for development.
http://www.coonan.com/listing/3531368/

ganmo

There are so many derelict sites in around dublin its nuts but builders love green fields