Where is the line drawn between Basin Street Lower and Basin View?

hatrickpatrick

Been trying to figure this out for a few days:
I always thought that Basin Street was one long, winding street going all the way from James' St, parallel to James' St hospital and the Basin St flats until you come to James' Walk (near the Luas stop for Fatima / Herberton apartments). However, according to Google map, the section leading south from James' St is "Basin St Lower", while the rest of the street (the L shaped part running from James' Hospital to James' Walk) is all called "Basin View". I could have sworn Basin Street Upper was this section, in particular the south-running part of the "L", but I had a look around and indeed there's a sign near the curve in the street which labels it "Basin View". Even more confusingly, the apartment blocks literally a 10 second walk further down this street have signs designating them as "Basin Street Flats", which is the same name given to a separate apartment block on Basin Street Upper.

I haven't had a chance to look at any older maps, but I could have sworn Basin St was one of those bizarre examples of "Upper" and "Lower" being reversed as far as North-South goes, wherein Basin St Lower is north of Basin St Upper.

Anyone know what the deal is here? Is "Basin View" perhaps a re-naming of what was once "Basin St Upper" to avoid confusion with the north-south thing? That was the first explanation which came to mind. One or two of the apartment blocks looked semi-derelict as well so perhaps re-naming the street is part of an upcoming redevelopment? "Basin View" sounds more like the name a developer might give to a housing project or estate off the street, than to the actual road or street itself.

Very confusing altogether, like most Dublin signage it must be said

spurious

The Ordnance survey agrees with you I think.
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,713843,733673,7,10

hatrickpatrick

spurious wrote: »

The Ordnance survey agrees with you I think.
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,713843,733673,7,10

So then where in fact is Basin View?

tampopo

I don't think it exists. Like your OP, I think it sounds like a development off Basin Lane (as I know Basin Street)

That Brandon Terrace is a new one on me. That section is separated only recently by bollards. (about 10 years).

What's shown as The Hops there on the osi map is what I expected to be Basin View, seeing as it's so tall...Where did you hear of Basin View in the first place?

hatrickpatrick

tampopo wrote: »

Where did you hear of Basin View in the first place?

Google Maps, when I was actually looking at St Anthony's Road trying to see how far a walk it was to Thomas St. What I always thought of as Basin St Upper any time I've walked up it is listed as Basin View, and after looking at the street sign last time I passed, that indeed seems to be what it's called. There wasn't a sign that I could see for Basin St Upper anywhere along the street either.

Here's a screenshot of the sign and where it is on the map:

Victor

Google Maps has the habit of adding the name of a 'main' street to aside streets where it doesn't know the name of the side street.

tampopo

I see what you mean alright. The walk would be 10+ minutes, btw. Depending how far down Thomas street you'd be going, I suppose!

I found this map, scroll down. It shows the basin and I suppose, standing at this (relatively new) street sign, you'd be looking at the basin.

http://dublin1798.com/dublin14.htm

It's a new one on me though.

I see on the bottom left corner of your attached image that it shows Basin View as per google, but I'd take that with a pinch of salt. Despite there being a street name plate...hmmm

Anyway, I'd walk the other way, by the Storehouse, the Hopstore and down that way...fwiw...


A photograph of the basin where Basin Street/Lane flats are now...

https://www.facebook.com/RialtoEnvironmentGroup/photos/a.643928725679301.1073741834.342333305838846/643928815679292/?type=3&theater

hatrickpatrick

Some of those houses look fairly modern, I wonder if they just renamed part of the street when redeveloping? A bit like how the LUAS stop down the road is still "Fatima" even though the entire adjacent development has been changed to "Herberton". There seem to be a few examples whereby a once contiguous street became distorted due to Celtic Tiger developments being built in the middle of it and the subsequent renaming created cartographical havoc, although none are coming immediately to mind.

Why do you reckon the Storehouse route is better out of interest? Not much of a fan of the Guinness Storehouse tbh, had a terrifying enough experience there last September and have avoided the vicinity ever since, even though I'm probably being totally irrational Basin Street / View is very handy as it connects two routes I take very often, one being from the Coombe to Donore Avenue / Cork Street and the other being from the Coombe to Inchicore. I'd usually cut down that street walking from Inchicore to Dolphin's Barn.

It's an odd enough configuration really. Students have taken over apartments in the aforementioned areas in a sort of gigantic triangle, but in between those points are much older houses and apartment blocks. Cork Street for instance is in my view architecturally bizarre, with hyper-modern apartment blocks designed like big Insomnia coffee shops sharing the same street with ancient looking (Victorian?) red bricked houses

I get the feeling some parts of the Basin / Herberton areas were supposed to be redeveloped during the boom but weren't completed before the crash. There are a vast number of boarded up apartments around Basin "View" and in another example of the kind of bizarre melding of modern and classical, Herberton Apartments is at one end of a street with ancient, boarded up red bricked houses at the other end. Bit of a shame though that they didn't just re-open some of the old houses when developments fell through, if that's what happened. I can see why they'd want to redevelop the old council apartments as most of them look fairly battered and run down, but there are some lovely looking houses which seem like they could do a lot better than just sitting idle.

Anyone know how often the ordinance survey maps are updated? As in could it be that the name of Basin St Upper was in fact changed to Basin View, but

hatrickpatrick

Victor wrote: »

Google Maps has the habit of adding the name of a 'main' street to aside streets where it doesn't know the name of the side street.

Interesting, any other examples of this? I always thought Google Maps was based rigidly on ordinance surveys?

Victor

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,713898,733525,7,9 shows Basin View as being there around 1906.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Interesting, any other examples of this? I always thought Google Maps was based rigidly on ordinance surveys?

Off-hand, no, They seem to use any source they can, some of them very dubious.

A Disgrace

Slightly OT, but a fascinating piece about the basin here

https://wideandconvenientstreets.wordpress.com/2015/02/24/in-the-fields-off-james-st/

m0nsterie

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I haven't had a chance to look at any older maps, but I could have sworn Basin St was one of those bizarre examples of "Upper" and "Lower" being reversed as far as North-South goes, wherein Basin St Lower is north of Basin St Upper.

I think you are mistaken here - the Lower and Upper refer in general to the river, with Basin St. Lower being closer to the Liffey than Basin St. Upper.

hatrickpatrick

m0nsterie wrote: »

I think you are mistaken here - the Lower and Upper refer in general to the river, with Basin St. Lower being closer to the Liffey than Basin St. Upper.

Ah right, I suppose that makes some kind of sense (although not much if you don't already know the system, woe betide any tourists trying to find their way around )

Faith in Google Maps has been shaken a bit I have to say - on the other hand, that I could see there genuinely is no signage along that street designating it as "Basin Street Upper", and one of the old maps posted here cites it as "Basin Lane" which doesn't seem to exist at all on the modern maps?

tampopo

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why do you reckon the Storehouse route is better out of interest? Not much of a fan of the Guinness Storehouse tbh, had a terrifying enough experience there last September and have avoided the vicinity ever since, even though I'm probably being totally irrational Basin Street / View is very handy as it connects two routes I take very often, one being from the Coombe to Donore Avenue / Cork Street and the other being from the Coombe to Inchicore. I'd usually cut down that street walking from Inchicore to Dolphin's Barn.

Well, to get to Thomas Street from St. Anthony's Road it's a more direct route than going down Basin Lane to the Luas tracks. If you went that way.
I'd recommend going to the end of St. Anthony's road, turn after the all weather pitch, past the giant litter bin (what it looks like to me, anyway), past the gym. Cross Reuben Street, cross Clarke's Tce, go down Mallin Ave onto St. James' Walk. Continue around by the wall of the CBS Primary and Secondary schools along Long's Place, turn left past the Traveler's Halting site and right onto Market St. South, passing the Storehouse, continue down Bellvue, turning left onto Crane street, passing the Hopstore, then turn right onto Rainsford street to Thomas Court where you could turn left and come out at the top of Bridgefoot Street at the corner beside Catherine's Church.
Alternately you could cross Thomas Court and the small park there and turn left up the alleyway to come out by Gilna's Optician's.
Or, alternately you could continue across Thomas Court onto Hanbury Lane to Meath Street and turn left there to come out at the junction with Thomas Street at NCAD.
It's much of a muchness. Varying your commute as you feel.
What put you off going by the Storehouse bar the smell of horse urine and the milling hordes of tourists?!!!

whaddya think?

And as for google maps, it was several years ago I looked at the map of Dublin city centre, in this general area and they had Rialto where Mountbrown is. As the crow flies it's about a mile or a Km or so. But you have to go around James' hospital which can be a pain, I mean, the campus is huge!
I have a Dublin Street Guide of about 10+ years and would consult that rather than boot up the laptop to check something. It'd work for the most of the city bar the newer suburbs on the outskirts...