Leading Russian opposition politician shot dead in Moscow.

stuar

A leading "Anti Putin" politician Boris Nemtsov was shot dead on a Moscow street lastnight on a bridge leading to Red Square, close to the Kremlin.

Western media have been quick to pick up on his Anti Putin this and that, and that he feared Putin would have him killed etc, but could there be something else to it rather than Putin did it?

Could it be an outside force trying to destabilize Russia, stir up anti Putin sentiment from inside Russia at a time when Putin is popular among Russians for standing up to the west?

Moscow has called the killing a provocation, western security agencies (CIA/MI5 etc) have a long history of carrying out such operations and having the finger pointed at the "Prime suspect", in this case Putin.

Russia opposition politician Boris Nemtsov shot dead
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31669061

Boris Nemtsov, leading Putin critic, shot and killed in Moscow.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02/27/boris-nemtsov-leading-putin-critic-shot-and-killed-in-moscow/

Boris Nemtsov, Heart of Russia’s Opposition, Gunned Down in Moscow
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/27/boris-nemtsov-heart-of-russia-s-opposition-gunned-down-in-moscow.html

Boris Nemtsov, Putin Foe, Is Shot Dead in Shadow of Kremlin
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/28/world/europe/boris-nemtsov-russian-opposition-leader-is-shot-dead.html?_r=0

Anti-Putin leader Boris Nemtsov fatally shot in Moscow
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/02/27/boris-nemtsov-shot-moscow-novosti/24140323/

Opposition politician Boris Nemtsov killed in the center of Moscow
http://rt.com/news/236363-nemtsov-killed-politician-moscow/

It's a very convenient time for his assassination for Ukraine and it's western backers.

S.R.

He was shot either by his own friends from abroad or from Russia. They made him "a sacred victim who died at hands of Putin" to stir up protest. Idiots! 80-90% of Russians would not give a f*ck about him and his "protest". He was one of those who in 90s left millions in poverty, who was in power when Russia lost millions of its population. And I can't remember any sentiments from him about these millions. He was in power, with money, enjoying his life.

S.R.

http://kingworldnews.com/paul-craig-roberts-cia-may-just-assassinated-boris-nemtsov-moscow-blame-putin/

stuar

Published on Feb 27, 2015
One thing needs to be kept in mind concerning the recent Nemtsov murder: he was a politician way past his prime.
His political weight was low even within the Russian opposition, which as a whole is extremely weak right now; for most people, this assassination is the first time they'll hear about Nemtsov in a year or more.
Many even argue that Nemtsov was a "decorative" asset for Putin as a stable, familiar, relatively honest but powerless opposition figure.

In short, this makes no sense, sort of like murdering Ross Perot in the USA.

For Putin, Nemtsov as a martyr is a far, far bigger problem than he ever was alive. If not within Russia itself, where most people seem to be baffled (again, Ross Perot assassination), then on the international diplomatic and mass media stage, where people can be easily convinced Nemtsov was killed because he "was a threat to Putin".

Three years ago, Putin warned about this exact scenario.
Who benefits? May be internal Russian opposition, Ukrainian government, American government, heck even islamic extremists - but Putin doesn't benefit, that's for sure.

Make your own conclusions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69Qwju5nJ-w

S.R.

stuar wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69Qwju5nJ-w

yes, I watched this.

j80ezgvc3p92xu

Would you honestly believe anything that comes out of Putin's mouth? The man is an ex KGB trained sociopath. If anything, he probably ordered the hit and his mouthpiece (RT) says the opposition did it to themselves.

S.R.

Nathalia Sharp Adventurer wrote: »

Would you honestly believe anything that comes out of Putin's mouth? The man is an ex KGB trained sociopath. If anything, he probably ordered the hit and his mouthpiece (RT) says the opposition did it to themselves.

Not only ordered but was watching it on RT's live coverage.
And I hope you are next on his hit list because you are LE IDIOT. There are enough idiots on our planet so we should decrease their number to make life easier for normal people.

S.R.

Same story about Putin I heard in July when plane was shot down. In very first hours blah-blah-blah-separatists-blah-blah-blah-Putin-blah-blah-blah-evidence-blah-blah-blah-from satellite-blah-blah-blaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

Eight months passed: not a sound about evidence. Not from ukranians, nor from americans, nor from europeans, nor form gobsh*tes here who were screaming "pro-russians did it on Putin's order!". And there are even more: dutch banned malaysians from participating in investigation. Why I'd like to know?)))

Now the same story. Corp was still on pavement near Kremlin when idiots started to shout "it's Putin, it's Putin".

degrassinoel

Ban - 1 week - personal abuse.

back to topic

stuar

Nathalia Sharp Adventurer wrote: »

Would you honestly believe anything that comes out of Putin's mouth? The man is an ex KGB trained sociopath. If anything, he probably ordered the hit and his mouthpiece (RT) says the opposition did it to themselves.

Would you rather believe the main stream western media bias?, with it's rich history of distorting facts, promoting out right lies, towing the "official" line even when they know its bullsh1t?

Putin had no need to assassinate a low level hasbeen nobody, while enjoying a whopping 86% popularity in Russia despite economic hardship as admitted by many western media sources including CNN 2 days ago (http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/26/europe/vladimir-putin-popularity/), who based their figures on this poll, just hit translate if you don't know Russian.
http://www.levada.ru/26-02-2015/fevralskie-reitingi-odobreniya-i-doveriya

Boris Nemtsov was a US puppet with strings attached, and being a former Deputy Prime Minister would have been well aware and even a participant in US interference in Ukrainian politics in 2004, Putin had a legitimate reason to oppose him and the US attempts of interference on his doorstep.
If Putin wanted him dead 10 years ago he would have been, now he was a nobody, and anybody still believing the US had no hand in current events in Ukraine need their heads examined.


US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev
26 November 2004
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa


Meddling' In Ukraine
December 21, 2004
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15131-2004Dec20.html


The Arab Spring: 'A Virus That Will Attack Moscow and Beijing
NOV 19 2011
Former presidential candidate and US Senator John McCain's comment was a biting kicker at opening dinner of 2011 Halifax International Security Forum.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/11/the-arab-spring-a-virus-that-will-attack-moscow-and-beijing/248762/


I rest my case.

j80ezgvc3p92xu

I suppose you will be saying next that the horrible West murdered Anna Politkovskaya and the 100s of other journalists killed in Russia since Putin was put into power. I am well aware of the fact that the West has its problems and usually I would be loath to defend it but have no illusions: Russia is many, many times worse. Russia is just a poorly disguised extension of the USSR, the most monstrous state the world has ever seen. Its main exports are poverty, misery and corruption on an unprecedented scale. Have you ever been to any of the ex Soviet countries? They are the most unhappy places I have ever seen because of what was done to them by Russia over the years.

I would strenuously support any country trying to defend themselves from Russia and Mr KGB at its helm. Sure, the US might have dabbled in the Ukraine but this is literally Ukraine's last chance to break free from the monster to the east. Putin is out to crush them and no one seems to help or care, instead pointing to the excesses of the US (to the utter delight of Putin).

The worst that we have to put up in the West is blatant propaganda and a few other minor inconveniences. Russia brings with it Gulags (they still exist as "work camps" in Siberia), no free speech, authoritarianism and the most abject poverty known in the Northern hemisphere. Give me the US any day.

DamagedTrax

Nathalia Sharp Adventurer wrote: »

The worst that we have to put up in the West is blatant propaganda and a few other minor inconveniences. Russia brings with it Gulags (they still exist as "work camps" in Siberia), no free speech, authoritarianism and the most abject poverty known in the Northern hemisphere. Give me the US any day.

im no russian apologist, but you've actually just described the US in the same breath as describing Russia!

gulags - fema work camps.

no free speech - the US government allows only the free speech they ultimately control. people that get near the real truth tend to die in an air crash (or similiar event)

authoritarianism - the patriot act of 2001 turned the US into a full blown authoritarian state.

abject poverty - all you have to do is look at the lower middle and working classes to find out what abject poverty is. from 2008 to 2011 alone, there were 8.1 million forclosures started, 4 million of them completed by end 2011


you said you'd take the US anyday? personally i'd steer well clear of both countries. neither are conducive to a free, healthy life as far as i can see.

stuar

Nathalia Sharp Adventurer wrote: »

I suppose you will be saying next that the horrible West murdered Anna Politkovskaya and the 100s of other journalists killed in Russia since Putin was put into power.

Firstly no I won't be saying the horrible west killed the 100's of other journalists, by the way do you have a list or a link to 100's of other journalists killed?, I know of a few, that I can count with my fingers alone, but 100's is a slight exaggeration on your behalf unless you can prove otherwise.
In fairness the US/CIA over the past 14 years or so (1990 to present) have killed quite a few more people both domestically and internationally than any other evil nation on earth, mostly innocent civilians, it's mostly called collateral damage and not murder though.

Nathalia Sharp Adventurer wrote: »

I am well aware of the fact that the West has its problems and usually I would be loath to defend it but have no illusions: Russia is many, many times worse. Russia is just a poorly disguised extension of the USSR, the most monstrous state the world has ever seen. Its main exports are poverty, misery and corruption on an unprecedented scale.

I have no illusions whatsoever, I'll contradict the above, the USA is the most monstrous nation the world has ever seen, it's main exports are poverty, misery and corruption on an unprecedented scale.

Poverty: The US and UK continue to plunder natural resources from developing nations through (US/UK-Wall street/City of London) multinational companies, un-repayable World bank/IMF loans (Don't let World or International fool you)

Misery: War, Weapons of war, plus the above, I could elaborate more, but seek and you will find.

Corruption: You've got to be joking by saying Russia (although corrupt) is more corrupt than the USA/UK, you really need to study things more, delve deeper.

Nathalia Sharp Adventurer wrote: »

Have you ever been to any of the ex Soviet countries? They are the most unhappy places I have ever seen because of what was done to them by Russia over the years.

Yes I've travelled to most of eastern Europe's ex soviet states, they are dreary places, I woudn't know if I was in Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, as they all look the same with soviet infrastructure, low wages, what exactly has Russia done to them after 1989?, What have the IMF/WB done?,

Nathalia Sharp Adventurer wrote: »

I would strenuously support any country trying to defend themselves from Russia and Mr KGB at its helm. Sure, the US might have dabbled in the Ukraine but this is literally Ukraine's last chance to break free from the monster to the east. Putin is out to crush them and no one seems to help or care, instead pointing to the excesses of the US (to the utter delight of Putin).

I would strenuously support any country "trying" to defend themselves from US imperialism, forced change of government from democratically elected to western puppets.

Nathalia Sharp Adventurer wrote: »

The worst that we have to put up in the West is blatant propaganda and a few other minor inconveniences. Russia brings with it Gulags (they still exist as "work camps" in Siberia), no free speech, authoritarianism and the most abject poverty known in the Northern hemisphere. Give me the US any day.

Look up US prison population rates, free speech in the US, poverty in the US, human rights in the US, civil rights in the US, your view of the US is completely distorted, it's one of the biggest kips I've ever been to and I've travelled to a lot of "poor" countries.

j80ezgvc3p92xu

Firstly no I won't be saying the horrible west killed the 100's of other journalists, by the way do you have a list or a link to 100's of other journalists killed?, I know of a few, that I can count with my fingers alone, but 100's is a slight exaggeration on your behalf unless you can prove otherwise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia . Scroll down to the "killed under Putin" section there is at least 100 and that is only what Wikipedia reported.

Poverty: The US and UK continue to plunder natural resources from developing nations through (US/UK-Wall street/City of London) multinational companies, un-repayable World bank/IMF loans (Don't let World or International fool you)

As I said before, I try not to be an apologist for the rot the West is currently experiencing, but you have got to be having a laugh. The Russians are notoriously poor, the only reason they have not yet rebelled is because the price of alcohol is being continuously lowered - http://www.topix.com/forum/world/russia/T8KIT249UMRPCL9RT . The people in the West enjoy a relatively high standard of living, an unemployed person in the UK easily "out-earning" someone who would be considered middle class in Russia (outside Moscow). With all its resources, Russia should be the wealthiest nation on earth, yet its corrupt elite reduced the Russian people to abject poverty.

Misery: War, Weapons of war, plus the above, I could elaborate more, but seek and you will find.

You forgot to mention Chechenya which was pretty much genocided out of existence. The Americans come in and take your resources, the Soviets come in and exterminate.

Corruption: You've got to be joking by saying Russia (although corrupt) is more corrupt than the USA/UK, you really need to study things more, delve deeper.

Again, no way. In the USSR, one had to pay a bribe to move from one oblast (county or district) into another. Everything revolves around bribes. Look at how bad Russia was looted during the Perestroika. Were do you think the Oligarchs came from? They sure did not get rich by doing an honest days work.

Yes I've travelled to most of eastern Europe's ex soviet states, they are dreary places, I woudn't know if I was in Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, as they all look the same with soviet infrastructure, low wages, what exactly has Russia done to them after 1989?, What have the IMF/WB done?,

Im talking about places where the USSR actually extended. I was once in Lviv a couple of years ago and it was just grim. Lovely architecture (pre Soviet) but I truly felt sorry for these people. We have failed them in the past by allowing them to rot under the Soviet jackboot. Now we have a chance to right the wrong by giving them a bit of the support they so desperately need.

Look up US prison population rates, free speech in the US, poverty in the US, human rights in the US, civil rights in the US, your view of the US is completely distorted, it's one of the biggest kips I've ever been to and I've travelled to a lot of "poor" countries

The US is not perfect. It has a lot of problems. But to my mind there really is no comparison. Russia needs to be stopped. This is like the Sudetenland in 1938, if we behave like Chamberlain did we are in for a disaster of unimaginable proportions a few years down the line.

j80ezgvc3p92xu

DamagedTrax wrote: »

im no russian apologist, but you've actually just described the US in the same breath as describing Russia!

gulags - fema work camps.

no free speech - the US government allows only the free speech they ultimately control. people that get near the real truth tend to die in an air crash (or similiar event)

authoritarianism - the patriot act of 2001 turned the US into a full blown authoritarian state.

abject poverty - all you have to do is look at the lower middle and working classes to find out what abject poverty is. from 2008 to 2011 alone, there were 8.1 million forclosures started, 4 million of them completed by end 2011


you said you'd take the US anyday? personally i'd steer well clear of both countries. neither are conducive to a free, healthy life as far as i can see.

The two are getting ominously close, but still not quite there. The only thing stopping the US looking like Russia now is the 2nd Amendment.

stevejazzx

Nathalia Sharp Adventurer wrote: »

The two are getting ominously close, but still not quite there. The only thing stopping the US looking like Russia now is the 2nd Amendment.

I don't think you're fully representing the facts correctly in comparing the two.
You mentioned 100's of journalists dead under Putin - has wiki-leaks just listed every journalist death since Putin has come into power?
Regardless the US has killed hundreds of thousands of children in the same time, been involved in countless wars and conflicts and routinely protects Israel from condemnation. In addition has lied about rendition, torture and mass surveillance on most extreme scale imaginable. Routinely sells arms and supports regimes on its own human rights offender list, carries out drone attacks weekly killing yet more civilians and children.
Has the most people per capita locked up in private prisons, has the worst human rights violation from internal law enforcement, persecutes whistleblowers like Bradley Manning.
Also additionally bred the climate of excess that led to financial meltdown across the world in 2008 and overall has the worst record of corporate morality by a country mile. Russia is pretty terrible in many places but hasn't a hope of competing with the US.


Drone attacks

All actions 2004 – January 31 2014

Total Obama strikes: 330
Total US strikes since 2004: 381
Total reported killed: 2,537-3,646
Civilians reported killed: 416-951
Children reported killed: 168-200
Total reported injured: 1,128-1,557
For the Bureau’s full Pakistan databases click here.

Vetos
http://www.wrmea.org/2005-may-june/an-updated-list-of-vetoes-cast-by-the-united-states-to-shield-israel-from-criticism-by-the-u.n.-security-council.html

shanered

I can see this thread being steered towards a Russia V USA, who is worse discussion, a complete derailment imo.
But I suppose people need the basics to be able to understand the conspiracy which would mean them coming around to not following the western media sentiment that it is Russia who is the aggressor of the planet and the danger to our security.
As pointed out it is clear the USA has been the main aggressor over the last period of recent geopolitical history, boasting the most imprisoned people per population, the most involvement in forgein conflicts and consequently the most people to die under the directive of governmental policy.
It is the US federal reserve and wall street who control our finances and set the prices for our commodities and who bankroll institutions who bankrupt countries all over the world such as the IMF and world bank.
Its the US who target countries such as Iran, Syria, Iraq and Libya, countries who still have their own central banks and have not been raided yet.

Its the USA who supply the weapons, logistics and moral support to the countries who are committing war crimes such as Israel and even creating and funding "terrorist" organisations such as Isis and Al-Quaeda so as to use them to topple governments and have an excuse to get involved militarily so as to further their agenda.

For balance, Russia has had its shady dealings and caught out, in no overall picture can it be claimed that Russia has imposed its will on the countless millions of people who are directly affected by the US policy of governmental change, financial destruction and in-debtness to the IMF/world bank, war and influence.
I for one, and I'not alone, believe that on the grander scheme of things, Russia is less a threat to the future of human society then America's corporations, mass survaillance, financial institutions and geo-political war mongering.
The USA is truely a mirror of the British empire at its height, changing governments and exerting its will across the globe.
And the scary thing is, like the fall of the British empire, as it started to crumble from the inside out, it got more desperate to exert the power it wields so as to keep its dwindling influence.
I am worried as to what will come of all this, and am quick enough to be open minded about anything directed against any of America's boogeymen paraded on their media being food for a population who must be kept at war against somebody, the terrorist, the russians, the chinese, isis/isal, al-queada etc....
I also find it only logical that an empire as big as the US who has some much global power would rountinely sacrifice people for its own cause, because that is what a country who is persistently trying to expand its influence has to do to keep up progress.
The US could have well and easily taken out that opposition politician so as to create internal problems for Russia, and it would follow a timeline of recent period of "turning the screws" so as to say on Russia, with the current economic warfare it has initiated on Russia, which has most recenly seen the price of energy drop so as the squeeze the Russian economy.
Whats this space and I would be open minded about anything the Western media blames on Russia.
One must always think about this in a wider context, why is the US turning against Russia, would it have anything to do with Obama's pivot to Asia perhaps?
We are seeing the complete destabilization of the Middle East and now are seeing the US increase its presence in the South China Sea and economic warfare on Russia, we are looking at the raiding of Libya's gold reserves in the very near future and more to come against Russia I can only suspect.

We in one way get to experience the drama of large continental sizes countries face off against each other, but the phrase "history always repeats itself" is one that comes to mind and I have a feeling that we have been squaring up to a major conflict for a long while now which is slowly gathering momentum across a globe sick of corporate/financial enslavement, war and the destruction of democracy in the name of democracy.

That's my two cents, feel free to pick me apart and I'll try respond soon enough.

Cheers for lending your ears!

RecordStraight

S.R. wrote: »

Same story about Putin I heard in July when plane was shot down. In very first hours blah-blah-blah-separatists-blah-blah-blah-Putin-blah-blah-blah-evidence-blah-blah-blah-from satellite-blah-blah-blaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

Eight months passed: not a sound about evidence. Not from ukranians, nor from americans, nor from europeans, nor form gobsh*tes here who were screaming "pro-russians did it on Putin's order!". And there are even more: dutch banned malaysians from participating in investigation. Why I'd like to know?)))

Now the same story. Corp was still on pavement near Kremlin when idiots started to shout "it's Putin, it's Putin".

Except that all the evidence points at it being the separatists and nothing points to the Ukrainians.

Odd, that.

stuar

RecordStraight wrote: »

Except that all the evidence points at it being the separatists and nothing points to the Ukrainians.

Odd, that.

Sorry to jump in here, but what evidence?, please provide a link of said evidence, and another thing, the separatists are Ukrainian's.

stuar

A snippet of truth from the Guardian, brave journalism in a couldron of lies.

The demonisation of Russia risks paving the way for war.

And much more than in Soviet times, the campaign is personal. It’s all about Putin. The Russian president is an expansionist dictator who has launched a “shameless aggression”. He is the epitome of “political depravity”, “carving up” his neighbours as he crushes dissent at home, and routinely is compared to Hitler. Putin has now become a cartoon villain and Russia the target of almost uniformly belligerent propaganda across the western media. Anyone who questions the dominant narrative on Ukraine – from last year’s overthrow of the elected president and the role of Ukrainian far right to war crimes carried out by Kiev’s forces – is dismissed as a Kremlin dupe.

But it’s certainly grist to the mill of those pushing military confrontation with Russia. Hundreds of US troops are arriving in Ukraine this week to bolster the Kiev regime’s war with Russian-backed rebels in the east. Not to be outdone, Britain is sending 75 military advisers of its own. As 20th-century history shows, the dispatch of military advisers is often how disastrous escalations start. They are also a direct violation of last month’s Minsk agreement, negotiated with France and Germany, that has at least achieved a temporary ceasefire and some pull-back of heavy weapons. Article 10 requires the withdrawal of all foreign forces from Ukraine..

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/04/demonisation-russia-risks-paving-way-for-war

miss tickle

One thing that bothered me about the whole scenario was where were the bodyguards? This is a guy who according to previous interviews perceived a threat to his life. His Girlfriend of four years would have been use to the presence of security guards, so why dismiss them. Is it possible the shooter , who, according to his girlfriend, was behind them, was the bodyguard (although she said he had dismissed them). Or maybe he was told that his girlfriend was the hit, (the outrage from such an incident would pull him from obscurity in Russia) so he dismissed them voluntarily. The absence and reasons for dismissing his security guards should be questioned.

RecordStraight

Seeing as Putin and Russia are actually the good guys, can anyone explain why Latvia and Estonia, with large numbers of ethnic Russians living there since Russia invaded them in the last century, are absolutely sh!tting bricks about what the good Mr. Putin does next?

j80ezgvc3p92xu

stuar wrote: »

A snippet of truth from the Guardian, brave journalism in a couldron of lies.

The demonisation of Russia risks paving the way for war.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/04/demonisation-russia-risks-paving-way-for-war

Ah the Guardian, a paper that can only be described as the English Pravda. The only thing they love more than decrying the advent of global warming is pointing out how evil the awful West is.

Seeing as Putin and Russia are actually the good guys, can anyone explain why Latvia and Estonia, with large numbers of ethnic Russians living there since Russia invaded them in the last century, are absolutely sh!tting bricks about what the good Mr. Putin does next?

Mr. Putin is only "liberating" oppressed people, there is nothing to worry about. Now quick, look at these Americans exploiting third world countries.

miss tickle

RecordStraight wrote: »

Seeing as Putin and Russia are actually the good guys, can anyone explain why Latvia and Estonia, with large numbers of ethnic Russians living there since Russia invaded them in the last century, are absolutely sh!tting bricks about what the good Mr. Putin does next?

What exactly are they sh!tting bricks about, and what is the evidence for their loose bowel movements?

miss tickle

Nathalia Sharp Adventurer wrote: »

Ah the Guardian, a paper that can only be described as the English Pravda. The only thing they love more than decrying the advent of global warming is pointing out how evil the awful West is.



Mr. Putin is only "liberating" oppressed people, there is nothing to worry about. Now quick, look at these Americans exploiting third world countries.

Oh please. have a look at Nulands efforts to stir up conflict during a ceasefire and then decide who the aggressors are.

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/march/05/nuland-ensconced-in-neocon-camp-who-believes-in-noble-lie/

and lets not omit this, in case we forget our place in the pecking order,

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/06/us-ukraine-russia-eu-victoria-nuland

davwain

Nathalia Sharp Adventurer wrote: »

I suppose you will be saying next that the horrible West murdered Anna Politkovskaya and the 100s of other journalists killed in Russia since Putin was put into power. I am well aware of the fact that the West has its problems and usually I would be loath to defend it but have no illusions: Russia is many, many times worse. Russia is just a poorly disguised extension of the USSR, the most monstrous state the world has ever seen. Its main exports are poverty, misery and corruption on an unprecedented scale. Have you ever been to any of the ex Soviet countries? They are the most unhappy places I have ever seen because of what was done to them by Russia over the years.

I would strenuously support any country trying to defend themselves from Russia and Mr KGB at its helm. Sure, the US might have dabbled in the Ukraine but this is literally Ukraine's last chance to break free from the monster to the east. Putin is out to crush them and no one seems to help or care, instead pointing to the excesses of the US (to the utter delight of Putin).

The worst that we have to put up in the West is blatant propaganda and a few other minor inconveniences. Russia brings with it Gulags (they still exist as "work camps" in Siberia), no free speech, authoritarianism and the most abject poverty known in the Northern hemisphere. Give me the US any day.

And let's not forget that Anna Duritskaya (Nemtsov's girlfriend when her boyfriend died in her arms) was held, for about a day, as a witness. Was there some suggestion she was involved? Absolute nonsense. This young woman was traumatized by what she witnessed. I am pleased to live in a country (Canada) whose criminal justice system, for the most part, investigates murders and imposes mandatory life sentences (albeit with the possibility of parole) for murder. The alternative is a justice system that, like Russia's, lets murderers run amok. I do, of course, believe in proof beyond a reasonable doubt, because, as we've seen far too often, innocent people have been convicted of murder.

RecordStraight

miss tickle wrote: »

What exactly are they sh!tting bricks about, and what is the evidence for their loose bowel movements?

They are a tad worried that Russia is going to destabilise them as it has the Ukraine. The evidence is in the international media covering Estonia and Latvia.

degrassinoel

Mod: Above user's Post removed and user banned (1 week) personal abuse.

Elmer Blooker

I have no idea why Nemtsov is described as a "leading" opposition politician?
I can only presume the western propaganda machine has built him up into a major opponent to Putin with popular and widespread support.
The REAL opposition in Russia are the communists and social democrats and they were 100% behind Putin when he returned Crimea to Russia (after Khrushchev's illegal act in 1954)

S.R.

Hello, freedom of speech.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/02/uk-media-regulator-threatens-rt-bias-airing-anti-western-views/

Clowns.

S.R.

RecordStraight wrote: »

They are a tad worried that Russia is going to destabilise them as it has the Ukraine. The evidence is in the international media covering Estonia and Latvia.

What are you talking about?!?!? Ethnic Russians are worried about marches in Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania held by former members of SS units and by present nazis. They are held openly, every year, politicians also participate and not a sound from Bruxelles.
Stop your lies!

Here is one recent example:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/nazi-hunter-even-putin-would-condemn-nuremberg-esque-parades-estonia-1490259

Estonia for Estonians. (c)

Eugene Norman

S.R. wrote: »

What are you talking about?!?!? Ethnic Russians are worried about marches in Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania held by former members of SS units and by present nazis. They are held openly, every year, politicians also participate and not a sound from Bruxelles.
Stop your lies!

Here is one recent example:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/nazi-hunter-even-putin-would-condemn-nuremberg-esque-parades-estonia-1490259

Estonia for Estonians. (c)

It's pro-Russian cant to declare all the nationalities who oppose their imperialism as Nazi. Rich from a country that invaded these countries withthe Nazis.

My conspiracy theory is this was a government killing by Putin.

S.R.

RecordStraight wrote: »

Except that all the evidence points at it being the separatists and nothing points to the Ukrainians.

Odd, that.

There is NO evidence otherwise it would be on table long time ago. Americans and other "friends" of Russia and Putin would not miss this kind of chance to have a go.

"Friends" were quick to shout "Putin did it" 3 hours after plane crash just like in story with Boris Nemtsov. In both cases pure bla-bla doing without evidence.

S.R.

Eugene Norman wrote: »

It's pro-Russian cant to declare all the nationalities who oppose their imperialism as Nazi. Rich from a country that invaded these countries withthe Nazis.

What do you mean here? I didn't get you.

Boskowski

RecordStraight wrote: »

They are a tad worried that Russia is going to destabilise them as it has the Ukraine. The evidence is in the international media covering Estonia and Latvia.

I don't really want to get involved in this especially not in this forum but this is a bit much. Russia destabilised the Ukraine? Seriously? If Russia destabilised the Ukraine what would you call the EU's involvement then? The whole thing stinks from top to bottom.

History will not look kindly on US/EU expansion politics since 1989, don't even get me started on the Middle East, but with the Ukraine we began a whole new ballgame that may well end in tears. And for what and why exactly?

S.R.

RecordStraight wrote: »

They are a tad worried that Russia is going to destabilise them as it has the Ukraine.The evidence is in the international media covering Estonia and Latvia.

:eek:

There are two possibilities:

1. you are complete and utter liar.

2. your head is destabilized like Obama's head here:

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/3920/jt69lvvw_jpg.htm

degrassinoel

Mod: Banned 2 weeks - Personal Abuse.

RecordStraight

S.R. wrote: »

:eek:

There are two possibilities:

1. you are complete and utter liar.

2. your head is destabilized like Obama's head here:

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/3920/jt69lvvw_jpg.htm

I'm sorry, but you are flying in the face of all the established facts (outside of outright Russian propaganda) if you don't think that the Russians destabilised Ukraine. Remember the Russian troops who invaded Crimea? The ones Putin swore up and down were not Russian? The 'Little Green Men'.

The ones Russia later admitted were Russian troops?

RecordStraight

S.R. wrote: »

What are you talking about?!?!? Ethnic Russians are worried about marches in Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania held by former members of SS units and by present nazis. They are held openly, every year, politicians also participate and not a sound from Bruxelles.
Stop your lies!

Here is one recent example:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/nazi-hunter-even-putin-would-condemn-nuremberg-esque-parades-estonia-1490259

Estonia for Estonians. (c)

Just to quote from your own link:

That is what is happening these days in Eastern Europe. The slightest hint of neo-fascism, racism, anti-Semitism or xenophobia in a post-Communist country will bring out a horde of Russian journalists eager to provide proof that the former republics of the Soviet Union are already on their way to a Nazi revival, or some equivalent, which would add a lot of grist to Mr. Putin's propaganda machine, and ostensibly justify a unilateral re-annexation a la Crimea.

I think you are making our case for us. One detail that is unfortunately missing is the number of participants in this march - it looks to me like about 100 nutters. Not exactly a threat to Imperial Russia.

degrassinoel

He's on two-week vacation and wont be able to respond, also any points he may have had are moot on account of his personal attacks.

I think the topic can continue on without his input from here on, at least for the next two weeks.