Subject To Licence

win2one

I see tickets are still being sold "subject to licence " how long will it take to sort this out, do we have to wait for another GB debacle ?

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It's not being sorted out

blastman

Sure a licence is never refused, sure, be grand...

artanevilla

Hundreds of gigs a year are subject to license. One major one gets cancelled one year.

I don't see a problem.

JJ

The agreement with Croke Park gigs is that there's 3 per year and they've stuck to that this year so there shouldn't be much of an objection.

threein99

win2one wrote: »

I see tickets are still being sold "subject to licence " how long will it take to sort this out, do we have to wait for another GB debacle ?

Its always been subject to licence, Garth Brooks mess a side I have never heard it being refused

Tearin It Up

JJ wrote: »

The agreement with Croke Park gigs is that there's 3 per year and they've stuck to that this year so there shouldn't be much of an objection.

I doubt very much the OP is talking about the Croke Park gigs. They weren't referring to Croke Park concerts this year as the three that are going ahead are fine, therefore they're not subject to license.

See attached picture of Ed Sheeran ticket (no subject to license on the ticket - that goes for the first three concerts).

The OP is worried about some other concert that is subject to license.

As for that agreement, well they were within their rights to apply for more concerts. They got an extra three granted on top last year. Same in 2009, there were 4 concerts. That agreement is nothing.

ghostdancer

Tearin It Up wrote: »

I doubt very much the OP is talking about the Croke Park gigs. They weren't referring to Croke Park concerts this year as the three that are going ahead are fine, therefore they're not subject to license.

See attached picture of Ed Sheeran ticket (no subject to license on the ticket - that goes for the first three concerts).

The OP is worried about some other concert that is subject to license.

As for that agreement, well they were within their rights to apply for more concerts. They got an extra three granted on top last year. Same in 2009, there were 4 concerts. That agreement is nothing.

no, you're wrong.

all public events over a certain size are subject to licence.
all the Ed Sheeran gigs are subject to licence, just as Longitude, Electric Picnic, Forbidden Fruit etc etc will be.

Tearin It Up

ghostdancer wrote: »

no, you're wrong.

all public events over a certain size are subject to licence.
all the Ed Sheeran gigs are subject to licence, just as Longitude, Electric Picnic, Forbidden Fruit etc etc will be.

Are you confusing the Ed Sheeran/Script gigs with an event management plan?

The first three over 5000 requires an event management plan. i.e. it goes to the HSE, fire safety, gardai etc etc etc

I posted a picture above with an Ed Sheeran ticket, it doesn't have "subject to license". Surely that's wrong, if its subject to license?

ghostdancer

and then a licence is granted/denied based on that event management plan.

all the Sheeran/Script gigs will have to be granted a licence to go ahead.

no, it's not wrong, it doesn't have to have it printed on the ticket. it's still a requirement that the licence is obtained before the gig goes ahead though.

Tearin It Up

ghostdancer wrote: »

and then a licence is granted/denied based on that event management plan.

all the Sheeran/Script gigs will have to be granted a licence to go ahead.

no, it's not wrong, it doesn't have to have it printed on the ticket. it's still a requirement that the licence is obtained before the gig goes ahead though.

You make sense. No such thing as a license before selling the tickets. There's still a license process to follow.

Sorry, it was me that was confused. So the OP may have been referring to these gigs after all.

But does that not leave it open to abuse to the Croke Park residents. It still has to go through the whole license process which is open for submissions/objections for five weeks after the event management plan is submitted. They want their bar, they haven't got it, they will do anything. Their claims have to be pretty good but its still open for abuse, and they have a city manager that will listen.

blastman

I think Croke Park is different as there is an automatic licence for three gigs per year. Other gigs can be staged there, but these would be subject to applying for and being granted additional licences.

Tearin It Up

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/licensing-laws-see-us-lose-out-on-major-gigs-says-peter-aiken-315199.html

This came out on Saturday from Peter Aiken.

In summary

The Department of Environment is still reviewing the legislation governing concert licenses.

They have met the government and hopefully there will be changes. But nothing happens fast in this country. It could be another year before issues are dealt with.

They could have added another Ed Sheeran concert but they weren't going there.

Don't like the end, Garth Brooks would perform in Ireland in a heartbeat if the situation was sorted. But there's no guarantee after ticket sales.

hynesie08

Peter aiken in talking crap shocker.

Name one major gig this country lost out on since last years decision? There's still plenty of 50-80,000 gigs going on.

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hynesie08 wrote: »

Peter aiken in talking crap shocker.

Name one major gig this country lost out on since last years decision? There's still plenty of 50-80,000 gigs going on.

You want a list of gigs that weren't announced?

Plenty of bands skip Ireland, it's annoying. Not saying this is the issue to sort that but if it helps I'm all for it

hynesie08

nm wrote: »

You want a list of gigs that weren't announced?

Plenty of bands skip Ireland, it's annoying. Not saying this is the issue to sort that but if it helps I'm all for it

I know bands skip Ireland, I've had to fly over to the UK enough to see bands i like, and I don't agree with selling tickets without a licence either.

What I'm saying is aiken is saying Ireland is losing out on big gigs, but last i checked every band that's playing stadiums in the UK are also playing over here, ac/dc, foos, ed sheeran, the who, taylor swift, 1d etc... So what gigs are passing us by? I doubt he's referring to steel panther and alterbridge.

Tearin It Up

I wouldn't call 5 concerts at 50,000-80,000 plenty. 1 at slane, 3 at Croke Park, 1 at the Aviva.

The demand was there for five more last year, and it seems as if another Ed Sheeran gig this year. But that's OK, no way, turn them all away if there is an opportunity there.

hynesie08

Tearin It Up wrote: »

I wouldn't call 5 concerts at 50,000-80,000 plenty. 1 at slane, 3 at Croke Park, 1 at the Aviva.

The demand was there for five more last year, and it seems as if another Ed Sheeran gig this year. But that's OK, no way, turn them all away if there is an opportunity there.

How many other bands can sell that many tickets who are touring and aren't playing Ireland? Let's look at London
Playing Wembley
Foo fighters 2 nights - playing slane, selling well but no demand for more nights.

Ac/dc-playing a one night spectacular, aviva is good for 3 gigs but only room for one night on the schedule.

Ed sheeran- playing here 2 nights in croker.

Hyde Park
Blur- nothing announced but will probably headline ep

Taylor Swift- 3 sold out nights in the 3 arena

The who, playing dublin and Belfast, neither sold out.

So of all the bands playing stadiums in the UK the only one capable of selling one out here (Taylor swift) is still playing to 40, 000 people.

So tell me again what big gigs we've missed out on since the garth thing?

Tearin It Up

So according to you, because there is plenty of big concerts Peter Aiken is talking crap? So because of that things should remain the same here?

Next year, if things remain the same, or the year after, is it OK to lose out on major concerts.

As it is, after last year, we/they/concert goers already lost out on another Ed Sheeran concert. That's OK? We're not talking about 20 nights of concerts on the trot before you twist things and pretend that residents must be respected, stick to 3 concerts crap.

hynesie08

Tearin It Up wrote: »

So according to you, because there is plenty of big concerts Peter Aiken is talking crap? So because of that things should remain the same here?

Next year, if things remain the same, or the year after, is it OK to lose out on major concerts.

As it is, after last year, we/they/concert goers already lost out on another Ed Sheeran concert. That's OK? We're not talking about 20 nights of concerts on the trot before you twist things and pretend that residents must be respected, stick to 3 concerts crap.

There are other places that gigs happen than cp.

This conversation has nothing to do with the residents, it has to do with the subject to license discussion. You've tried to twist it into a discussion about croke park residents (huge shock).

I've already said i don't think gigs should be allowed to sell tickets without a license, but i don't know what the solution is.

Every year dozens of outdoor events with more than 5000 people happen and will continue to happen, and unless the law is changed, they will be subject to license. Aiken himself was saying the system was grand till last year. If it's so flawed why wasn't he campaigning before then?

And as for me "thinking" (key word there, it's an opinion) aikens talking crap he says Garth would play here in a heartbeat, wasn't he saying last year Garth was booked through to 2017?

The ed sheeran thing? Don't the gaa claim that cp needs a week after gigs for the pitch to be playable? So a third ed gig on the Sunday isn't an option anyway with a possible dublin qf on august 1st so who's telling fibs?

Also to count yourself as a gig-goer you'd have to actually go to gigs, have you ever actually been at a concert.

Tearin It Up

Here you are twisting everything again rather than answer my question.

I made a point that concert goers already lost out on another Ed Sheeran concert. There was a possibility of four Croke Park concerts this year. Is four concerts OK with you? Or are you going to pretend residents must be respected and stick to 3.

Why hasn't he started campaigning before then? It was never brought to light until last year. What has that got to do with my point which you quoted?

He was saying Garth would play in a heartbeat, if the system wasn't so messed up. He's on tour, he won't drop everything in a heartbeat. Again, what has that got to do with my point above?

What has the pitch got to do with my point above?

Three non relevant things in which you twisted, nothing new there.

hynesie08

You haven't asked a question, but I'll try and answer it.

Aiken said that they didn't put on a 3rd ed sheeran concert because of a fear of a residents backlash, however in that same interview he says 2 other things that contradict things he has said in the past, so i don't believe him (again, opinion)

There are literally dozens of reasons why concerts don't go ahead, maybe the gaa didn't wanna rent out croker that night, maybe ed didn't wanna top Wembley, maybe he wanted to go to coppers and get ****faced and didn't wanna play hungover. The fact is IF a 3rd gig was planned we'll never know why it didn't go ahead,

if ed sheeran said he put the brakes on a 3rd one because it might be cancelled your ramblings against the residents might have legs, but the cynic in me thinks aiken might have been making a political move.

But hey, that's just me "twisting things"

Tearin It Up

I didn't ask a question.

You know damn well what i wrote but you refused to answer it.

As it is, after last year, we/they/concert goers already lost out on another Ed Sheeran concert. That's OK?.... That was a question.

You seem to think its OK to turn away business because there's plenty happening already, 50-80,000 gigs. Quite a sick attitude to have.

hynesie08

Tearin It Up wrote: »

I didn't ask a question.

You know damn well what i wrote but you refused to answer it.

As it is, after last year, we/they/concert goers already lost out on another Ed Sheeran concert. That's OK?.... That was a question.

You seem to think its OK to turn away business because there's plenty happening already, 50-80,000 gigs. Quite a sick attitude to have.

It's not a question because there is no proof it happened, understand??????

If you can present any proof that a 3rd ed sheeran gig was planned or any large band has skipped ireland because of this, I'll gladly listen, but you can't because it's not happening.

And don't say we, you haven't lost anything this year, you weren't going to ed sheeran.

Tearin It Up

There was still the possibility of four CP gigs this year.

From the link I provided

"However, Mr Aiken said the three gig limit at Croke Park means he can not stage a third Sheeran gig. We left a show behind us."

Your attitude is sickening.

hynesie08

Tearin It Up wrote: »

There was still the possibility of four CP gigs this year.

From the link I provided

"However, Mr Aiken said the three gig limit at Croke Park means he can not stage a third Sheeran gig. We left a show behind us."

The 3 gig limit? How many gigs were allowed last year??

Tearin It Up

DCC allowed 6, what's your point.

hynesie08

Tearin It Up wrote: »

DCC allowed 6, what's your point.

That there is no 3 gig limit, fairly simple point.

Tearin It Up

Point taken.

They could have went for 3 if they really wanted to but its still wide open to abuse.

Tearin It Up

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/garth-fallout-laws-on-licences-315643.html

This came out today. There seems to be a first draft of these new licensing laws, or they're working on it which could be enacted by next month.

They're looking at issues such as minimum timeframes for a license application to a planning authority, and the making of a decision by a planning authority on the license application, public consultation arrangements on license applications and pre-application meetings with various parties.

No mention of tickets being sold subject to license as part of that. But they're going to have to look at the whole sorry mess that last year was and not just the above.

hynesie08

If i was a cynical man, I'd say that aikens story of a 3rd ed sheeran gig was slightly exaggerated to speed through a change in the licensing laws, and if so it's worked perfectly.

If i was a cynical man.

Tearin It Up

What has Peter Aiken got to do with it? Just because he expressed how slow it is. Which it is.

The department of environment was working on this regardless since last October. Public consultation in November.

If they haven't done anything up until now, there's nothing Peter Aiken can do. Let's hold talks just for Peter Aiken. It doesn't work like that.

If you have any proof that Peter Aiken pushed this, I'd like to see it.

hynesie08

Do you actually read my posts or do you just look for arguments based on your misinterpretation of what i write?

I'll explain, I'm not saying that peter aiken has tried to influence or force through anything, i am saying that it's possible he saw an opportunity to bring attention to the issue and put himself in a positive light "I wanted to give you more Ed sheeran gigs but the mean dcc might have said no" of course a statement like that would lead to calls from the media, and now a statement has been released with a rough timetable, so his statement got the exact response he wanted.

Let's say the time line is true and everything gets sorted by next month, still leaves plenty of time for a 3rd gig.

nxbyveromdwjpg

hynesie08 wrote: »

I'm not saying that peter aiken has tried to influence or force through anything, i am saying that it's possible he saw an opportunity to bring attention to the issue and put himself in a positive light "I wanted to give you more Ed sheeran gigs but the mean dcc might have said no" of course a statement like that would lead to calls from the media, and now a statement has been released with a rough timetable, so his statement got the exact response he wanted.

If so - good, fair play to him. Would be better to have them spend the usual x amount of years at a snails pace? They need a kick up the arse.

hynesie08

nm wrote: »

If so - good, fair play to him. Would be better to have them spend the usual x amount of years at a snails pace? They need a kick up the arse.

Exactly, it's a standard trick and he pulled it off perfectly, and if it leads to the reform that's needed then fair play to him. My point was not that the statement was wrong, merely that maybe the content was slightly exaggerated.

rubadub

Tearin It Up wrote: »

They got an extra three granted on top last year. Same in 2009, there were 4 concerts.

Yeah in 2009 there were 4 and there was fcuking war over it, very well publicised at the time. This made Aiken appear all the more of a deceitful prick last year when he was seemingly feigning ignorance over the agreement. This agreement was widely known, anybody involved in the gig industry would certainly have been fully aware, just as they know how likely it is to get mulitple gigs at slane. He was taking the public for utter fools.

http://www.atu2.com/news/local-fury-over-u2-ticket-sales.html

LOCAL FURY OVER U2 TICKET SALES

Dublin People, April 16, 2009



Angry Northside residents living in the vicinity of Croke Park have slammed the selling of tickets for the upcoming U2 concerts which have yet to be licensed.

Three July dates of the U2 360 tour, which will see 82,000 fans pile into Croke Park each night, were advertised and thousands of tickets have been sold without the licence being granted for the events.

While the licence request for the three dates was included in last week's planning list, residents who will be most affected by the gigs doubt that the council will reject permission for the event which is likely to generate e6.5 million in revenue.

"If they weren't sure that they would get the licence then they wouldn't have advertised the dates," said Barbara Ward of the Clonliff and District Residents' Association.

"It's a bit premature and just makes you wonder what the point is in going through the planning process for the licence in which public submissions from the public are invited.

"It's a joke and it makes a mockery of the residents who are led to believe they have a say on whether the concerts go ahead or not."

Last month, all 164,000 tickets for the two initial U2 concerts -- Friday July 24 and Saturday July 25 -- sold out in one hour prompting the band to announce a third date for July 27.

Tickets for the final Croke Park gig, which were priced e33.60, e59.80, e91.50, e131.50, went on sale on April 1.

Disgruntled residents living close to Croker believe they are being completely overlooked by both the council and the promoters.

"No one seems to realise how this extra date will impact on us," Barbara told Northside People.

"The concert will go on until all hours. It will be at least 1am before our neighbourhood settles down and we are able to get any sleep and many of residents need to get up for work the next morning."

Bill Byrne of Foster Terrace said residents were left frustrated when extra dates were added on without any consultation with locals.

"I just don't understand the logic behind this process which seems so flexible, especially when it comes to big bands and promoters who put so much pressure on the council to grant permission as the tickets have already been sold," he said.

Local councillor Emer Costello (Lab) criticised the promoter's ability to "put the cart before the horse," which she said left the council's hands tied.

"There's a lot of money riding on these gigs," she told Northside People.

"I really can't see the council rejecting the licence for these concerts for which tickets have already been sold.

"It's not as if anyone would be too keen on having to refund the 246,000 people who have bought tickets for the concerts."

In 1992, Croke Park was granted permission to hold three concerts per year. However, the events are subject to a council approved management plan and licensing.

"Under the licensing regulations Croke Park are obliged to lodge a detailed event management plan to the planning authority 16 weeks in advance of any proposed event," a Dublin City Council spokesperson said.

"Submissions are accepted by the planning authority for five weeks from the date of lodgement of the event licence application.

"The application is referred for comment to a number of consultees -- Health Services Executive, An Garda Siochana and Dublin Fire Brigade, for instance. A decision to grant or refuse a licence is an executive function of the planning authority. The licence application for three concerts at Croke Park is currently under consideration by the planning authority."

The spokesperson added: "The planning regulations do not preclude a promoter from advertising or selling tickets for an event in advance of the license being issued."

A spokesperson for MCD said it had placed notices regarding the U2 concerts in the media as part of its application which it had lodged with the council.

"In addition Croke Park has raised the issue at a recent Community Liaison Committee Meeting which includes representatives from the local community and local politicians," the spokesperson continued.

"All local politicians are regular visitors to Croke Park, and like other fans will attest to the professional standards to which events are run. Large events in Croke Park are extremely important ways of stimulating the Dublin economy. It is estimated that this weekend will benefit the city with an economic stimulus of some e100 million. In recognition of the cooperation from the local community to staging concerts at Croke Park MCD have made a substantial contribution to the Community Trust Fund which has been set aside for community enhancement projects in the locality."

It doesn't sound to me like the OP has bought tickets for any gig at all. I would not be worried about any upcoming ones. I have not heard of any planned that would obviously be objected to, like the GB ones were. If 7 gigs in close succession get announced for slane then I would start to worry, this would be equivalent to the GB chanced, 5 nights more than every before in a single year -a year which saw huge complaints. And when slane got 2 gigs in a year in close succession the taoiseach had to intervene.