UCI requests Astana licence to be withdrawn - MOD NOTE post #27

Darkglasses

This story is making twitter explode this morning, but it appears that the reigning TDF winning teamis going to lose it's racing licence. What's more, L'Equipe are reporting that the UCI is confident that there will be no Katusha-like appeal and return, although they may appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. I'm very interested to see where this one goes, hope it ends up being a positive and effective step taken by the UCI rather than another missed opportunity.

Inrng article

UCI statement

laraghrider

I've asked this question on twitter and so far no response. How does the license work. Don't the UCI not grant and issue the license. Why in that case do they need to request withdraw and from whom? Can they not just rescind it?

neris

if astana do loose the license would they look to replace them on the world tour? could europcar be let back in?

Darkglasses

laraghrider wrote: »

I've asked this question on twitter and so far no response. How does the license work. Don't the UCI not grant and issue the license. Why in that case do they need to request withdraw and from whom? Can they not just rescind it?

They do not, there is an independent licencing commission in Switzerland who control the licences

From inrng -

The mechanics of a licence withdrawal are simple: the UCI asks its Licence Commission to take away the licence. The Licence Commission is an independent office staffed by a handful of Swiss bigwigs. Under the rules they issue licences but can also withdraw them in exceptional circumstances, if the original licence had erroneous information or the facts have since changed.

The UCI submits its written request to the Licence Commission
A hearing is called with the team given at least 10 days’ notice
If the licence is withdrawn the team has to stop racing, there’s no automatic granting of a second-tier Pro Conti licence
Astana may appeal the verdict to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS)
Any CAS appeal will take time, possibly two months, and there is scope for Astana to make a separate fast-track appeal to win back its licence on a temporary basis in order to keep riding.

Darkglasses

neris wrote: »

if astana do loose the license would they look to replace them on the world tour? could europcar be let back in?

Possibly but I actually suspect there would just be one less WT team, it might be too late for Europcar or any other team to change there racing plans for 2015.

TheBlaaMan

We'll have to wait and see what happens, but you have got to feel sorry for guys like Nibali, Fugelsang, Westra and perhaps a few others. I wonder if there is any scrabbling going on in the background with these guys to jump ship and try to get another team as they can hardly wait out the inevitable faffing around that is now going to happen. There must be a chance that Nibali at least has an exit clause in his contact, unlikely that others have, though.....

They might all be looking at a lost year in their careers either way.....

Darkglasses

Also I'm hoping to find out from Paddy Power shortly if they plan to refund bets placed on Astana riders should they lose their licence. They refunded bets last year when riders got injured pre-race, I'm hoping it'll work the same way for this.

neris

im sure olegs onto his accountants this morning seeing if they can incraese the payroll. these russian billionaires have a habbit of splurging out on a load of top names even if they cant fit them into their teams/sqauds

death1234567

I can see the Kazah government funding a lot of legal bills in the near future...

TheBlaaMan

With any luck this will see the end of Vinokurov in cycling. Good riddance.
(the way these things tend to work out though, that maybe is being a bit too optimistic )

irishrover99

Great news. Cookson needed to do this or he would have looked like a bigger fool than he already looks.

Lusk_Doyle

irishrover99 wrote: »

Great news. Cookson needed to do this or he would have looked like a bigger fool than he already looks.

What has he (not) done that gives you that opinion?

Leroy42

Why would you feel sorry for the guys like Nibali etc. If there are grounds to rescind the licence then the team must be up to something unusual. The riders can't but be in the know if that is the case.

ThisRegard

Just a thought, why all the sympathy for the riders? If there's serious problems with the team, surely that filters down to the riders ?

irishrover99

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

What has he (not) done that gives you that opinion?

What has he not done? He should have took there license months ago to show that he was going to live up to all the talk that he done when he was running for UCI president about been tough on drugs.

It was as clear as daylight that Astana has a drug culture. How many was it about 7-8 riders. Come on, and a cheat at the helm. They look worse than discovery or US postal ever did

quozl

If he had refused the license it would have been overturned by CAS. As has previously happened.

Perhaps he's actually doing things correctly and this will result in them really losing their license, instead of some empty gesture which gets over-turned.

Here's hoping anyway.

Pudsy33

ThisRegard wrote: »

Just a thought, why all the sympathy for the riders? If there's serious problems with the team, surely that filters down to the riders ?

Nibali seems like a good egg, and was very quick to distance himself from all the crap. Feel bad for him that his TdF title could end up with an asterisks beside it.

Inquitus

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Nibali seems like a good egg, and was very quick to distance himself from all the crap. Feel bad for him that his TdF title could end up with an asterisks beside it.

I don't feel bad for Nibali at all, ride for Vino on a team which the UCI seems to believe are not above board, and your accomplishments may rightly be brought into question.

CramCycle

I don't pity any of the riders in this case, they are all pros, if doping happens to be rife within the team, then they

a) knew about it and were therefore complicit by not dobbing them in,
b) knew about it and were complicit by actively abusing
c) did not know and are therefore innocent.

If it is the latter, they can now go to other teams and say, I am good, clearly good enough as I still made the team sheet without cheating and now I would like to earn a place elsewhere. If its either of the first two, then, well, let it be dealt with properly.

I was disappointed when I heard they had the license but realised the whole CAS overturning it issue. It looks, and hopefully is, being dealt with the correct way now, with UCI making sure they tackle it in a way that is longer but more importantly, beyond reproach and outside of the abilities of CAS or any other legal action to turn it over.

Borderfox

If you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas

godtabh

Why now?

quozl

I'd guess they've been working towards this for some time. Astana were being audited as part of the conditions of their receiving a license. Perhaps the audit threw up enough to push for this.

I don't know what else is happening right now that could trigger this?

CramCycle

godtabh wrote: »

Why now?

I presume it took that time to get the POA together to ensure that they had the correct course of action that would make Astana coming back through CAS or otherwise near impossible.

They also would have had to get and analyse the relevant data from the Paldova investigation, that probably took awhile, then rechecking that the data stood upto scrutiny.

It also would have taken time for the audit to be run, prepared, reported, reviewed and then for specific actions to be decided upon and acted upon.

While not in that world, i am well used to the external auditing process through work, sometimes, these things just take longer than you would think to get put together and polished off to a degree that the auditor and investigators are happy with.

Macy0161

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Nibali seems like a good egg, and was very quick to distance himself from all the crap. Feel bad for him that his TdF title could end up with an asterisks beside it.

Wouldn't a good egg be looking to distance himself from the team, not just the crap that goes with it. At a time he should've been looking for an exit strategy, he was mulling over a contract extension...

Brian?

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

We'll have to wait and see what happens, but you have got to feel sorry for guys like Nibali, Fugelsang, Westra and perhaps a few others. I wonder if there is any scrabbling going on in the background with these guys to jump ship and try to get another team as they can hardly wait out the inevitable faffing around that is now going to happen. There must be a chance that Nibali at least has an exit clause in his contact, unlikely that others have, though.....

They might all be looking at a lost year in their careers either way.....

I feel no sympathy for anyone who joins Astana. They've been rotten since Armstrong/Contador were on board. In fact I'm 100% sure Contador jumped ship because of how the team was run.

I'm happy to believe Nibali is clean, he should never have signed for Astana. This has been coming for years.

TheBlaaMan

Ah, I dont know. I'm no apologist for dpping, but think that Nibali has been in a tricky situation since this blew up. OK, Vino has always been toxic, but he moved to Astana to further his career and lead a team (and it has worked) and there hasn't ever been a whiff about him, afaik....

Fuglsang has already indicated he would leave (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/news-shorts-fuglsang-considered-leaving-astana-giant-alpecin-for-tour-down-under) but both will have binding contracts - they cannot unilaterally just break these without consequences, so once theyr'e in, they're in for good or bad, and in that situation will have had to walk a fine line between speaking out and watching over your own shoulder for consequences - a bit like anyone in a bad job or a bad relationship.

I suspect there will be attempts by these guys to get out as quickly and smoothly as possible.....

CramCycle

MOD VOICE: Just to be clear, in case it goes that way, as with all threads where doping is a factor, do not accuse anyone of doping without it being proven and printed in the media. "Belief", "they had to be", "there is no way they weren't", or any similar style claims, are not legitimate reasons to post that someone is doping, no matter what you believe.

Eamonnator

Astana have begun the fight back

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana-talking-with-lawyers-after-uci-request-licence-withdrawal

Eamonnator

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Ah, I dont know. I'm no apologist for dpping, but think that Nibali has been in a tricky situation since this blew up. OK, Vino has always been toxic, but he moved to Astana to further his career and lead a team (and it has worked) and there hasn't ever been a whiff about him, afaik....

Fuglsang has already indicated he would leave (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/news-shorts-fuglsang-considered-leaving-astana-giant-alpecin-for-tour-down-under) but both will have binding contracts - they cannot unilaterally just break these without consequences, so once theyr'e in, they're in for good or bad, and in that situation will have had to walk a fine line between speaking out and watching over your own shoulder for consequences - a bit like anyone in a bad job or a bad relationship.

I suspect there will be attempts by these guys to get out as quickly and smoothly as possible.....

I'm sure these guys have clauses in their contracts, which give them a get out, if their team lose their licence.

Henlars67

I think most fans will be delighted if they lose their licence.

It does however raise the question that if there is a doping culture at Astana, then how do they other teams beat them so regularly while riding clean?

blobbie

godtabh wrote: »

Why now?

Forthcoming CIRC report I'm guessing

MPFG

I for one feel sorry for the innocent riders and staff at Astana who will lose their jobs ....all this "why did they join Astana?"...Look around there isn't many options if you want to be a pro bike rider

Yes ...Nibali could have had his pick but not sure about some of the others...Take Westra ..his team folded and he got a job last minute or Cataldo ..he was not kept as SKy and needed a team...Sponsorship is abysmal in cycling at present

I honestly think that there should be a longer notice of licience removal so alternative arrangements can be made for the livelihood of staff.....

Leroy42

I agree with MPFG, but unfortunately cycling is so deep into this issue that the only way to deal with it something like this. Of course there will be 'collateral' damage, and riders, mechs etc will lose out, but we can;t continue to have issues every year as we have for the past number of years. Sticking the head in the sand proved a terrible policy so really the only thing is to deal with it, and that always ends up hurting those not directly involved.

Maybe something like this, if it comes to pass, will force riders and others to be a bit more demanding in the teams they are willing to work for. While of course many don't have a choice, they do have a choice of whether to simply accept what is going on around them and stay quiet. Until the 'culture' of cycling is one of non-acceptance we are destined to repeat the problems we have already had.

Macy0161

Obviously, there's a difference between nibbles and lesser riders in terms of options.

Also, i can't see a definitive licence decision this season anyway, and haven't seen anything to suggest its world tour or nothing for Astana (yet). They could continue pro conti.

godtabh

Maybe I got this wrong but don't teams have to provide bonds to cover expenses for a year? Assuming that covers riders wages at least they have some comfort in that?

Also I assume if they are kicked out riders would be free to find other teams mid season? Difficult I know

Zyzz

You hear that??

Thats the sound of Oleg Tinkov opening his wallet for Nibali.

Lusk_Doyle

godtabh wrote: »

Why now?

One of them cycled too far out in the middle of a road away from the rest of them while on a training spin.

Lusk_Doyle

Cracking timing for this priceless piece of *ahem* memorabilia...

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10152785226137149&id=174535987148

Inquitus

Zyzz wrote: »

You hear that??

Thats the sound of Oleg Tinkov opening his wallet for Nibali.

Can't imagine Nibali riding for Contador, and lets be honest he's half the rider Contador is at best.

wirelessdude01

Nobody talking about the likes of Aru. Now IMO he is the one that Oleg should open the coffers for.

MPFG

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Nobody talking about the likes of Aru. Now IMO he is the one that Oleg should open the coffers for.

well it won't be Fuglsang as he has some choice words about Riis & doping ....burnt his bridges there ...ironic really


I'd get Boom, Guardini , Westra if I were TCS

TheBlaaMan

I didn't realise that Vino (and Kolobnev) is facing a trial later this year for buying off the 2012 L-B-L race...... That will be sweet justice http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/astanas-uneasy-ride-professional-peloton-139345

MPFG

Poor treatment of Kessikoff by Astana

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/02/news/kessiakoff-says-astana-mistreatment-cut-career-short_361792

dastardly00

MPFG wrote: »

Poor treatment of Kessikoff by Astana

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/02/news/kessiakoff-says-astana-mistreatment-cut-career-short_361792

Jesus that is crazy. I actually hadn't realised he quit.

Darkglasses

So Astana have basically completely gotten away with it

Meanwhile, Greg Henderson is letting his feelings known about Aru.

Edit: And now apparently Aru is getting his lawyers after Henderson. *sigh*

dastardly00

^^^^
Banned!! :pac:

blobbie

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lars-boom-excluded-from-tour-de-france-over-cortisol-levels

godtabh

The UCI need to take action.

But is there something in the article that seems odd.

Dutchman will not be allowed to start, although the test is not necessarily an indication that a rider has violated anti-doping rules.

So what is the actual offence?

Pudsy33

godtabh wrote: »

The UCI need to take action.

But is there something in the article that seems odd.



So what is the actual offence?

There is no breach of a UCI rule, the MPCC is an organization which teams can subscribe to if they like. It's like an extra set of rules to adhere to. It's ridiculous though, a Bardiani rider in the Giro had the same thing as Boom and they just ignored it. I think Lampre left it too. Sky aren't a member.

Bugsy2000

Aaaaaarrrgggh......(as I run off to change my Velogames team)

Pudsy33

Bugsy2000 wrote: »

Aaaaaarrrgggh......(as I run off to change my Velogames team)

The UCI aren't letting Astana replace him so I suspect he will start and Astana will leave the MPCC.