Race lengths/Permits

TrevorC

Guys, I've moved these from the running events in Wexford thread as it was getting very off topic.

Did anyone else notice that the start line of this years Enniscorthy 10k was back a further 80m - 100m up the road?

The finish line was in the same spot as previous years so does this mean this years race was long or the previous races were short....?

100m doesn't sound like much but its still approx 20secs extra at 10k pace...:eek:

Podge83

TrevorC wrote: »

Did anyone else notice that the start line of this years Enniscorthy 10k was back a further 80m - 100m up the road?

The finish line was in the same spot as previous years so does this mean this years race was long or the previous races were short....?

100m doesn't sound like much but its still approx 20secs extra at 10k pace...:eek:

Both the start and finish lines were moved back. The Finish line used to be further up around the corner. I felt that they were both moved about the same distance.

66_Lad

Podge83 wrote: »

Both the start and finish lines were moved back. The Finish line used to be further up around the corner. I felt that they were both moved about the same distance.

Agree with you Podge, I got 10k flat on garmin and felt the finish moved back by the same amount as start compared to last yr

TrevorC

The finish line was in the same spot as previous years guys...

Confirmed in both these photos from 2014 and 2015; http://https://www.facebook.com/Enniscorthy10k/photos/ms.c.eJw9kdkRxDAIQzva4T76b2xjsJy~;NxKWICEmTCrU2SH5i2XOsJA2cK4uly1M~_ZPjsuv4E3rYcPDl1DPvBX~;mMvzFw1ng9Sf8TZNH189Eo3uDNx~;9vm~_YDSzLCq6Zt9uPxYbVwdtP8Z7Umee~_92GV06eCwL764x7GvmyyjHxbHfux7770OEYP7OebH8iPuZd1gX36yNNzdfTPuZcV3ktfxn1y~;mcx8rOWodf2N~;T~;Nj~;zCW49~;my83z067iO0fb3~_DJ99uA~-~-.bps.a.624210194312973.1073741826.452765054790822/624210317646294/?type=1&permPage=1

http://https://www.facebook.com/165161326862111/photos/a.905089496202620.1073741855.165161326862111/905091716202398/?type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xpa1%2Ft31.0-8%2F1553109_905091716202398_2311737406602262943_o.jpg&smallsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xfa1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F10408116_905091716202398_2311737406602262943_n.jpg%3Foh%3D4457ad17ade8b187144a2b9669b6adf2%26oe%3D5592F43F&size=972%2C648&fbid=905091716202398

Both of them show the finish line on the short bend entering the estate..

I realise that Garmins are not 100% accurate but last year my Garmin measured 9.88km whereas this year it measured 10.01km which backs up my thinking that this years start line was pushed back approx 100m further.

Nice to still get a 1min PB (37:20) over last years time when you include the extra distance..:D

Podge83

They must have moved it some of the way last year (and the start too). Your photos actually show the line moved!

Photos from previous years clearly showing the finish well around the corner (I didn't run it last year). Slaney Olympic are too good a club and too experienced in arranging races to move the start back by the distance spoken about above and just not notice it!! Look at the finish photos from previous years.


http://www.slaneyolympic.com/gallery/?album=2&gallery=2

http://www.slaneyolympic.com/gallery/?album=24&gallery=28

http://www.slaneyolympic.com/gallery/?album=24&gallery=28

TrevorC

Looking at those older pics from 2013 it does show the finish line further past the entrance to the estate but it also shows the start line less of a distance up that road than 2015...

The pics i posted show the 2014/2015 finish line to be practically in the same spot both years (give or take 5m maybe) but the start line for 2014/2015 had an approx 80-100m difference between them...

Both of those measurements cannot be 10k unless the route was different at a some other point on the course (i dont believe it was as there are no other optional roads on route that would give a 10k distance)

Im not questioning the ability of Slaney Olympic who are an excellent club and extremely competent at organising events im sure, after all, this race is an AAI measured course which would mean the measurement is done by an approved AAI rep not an official from Slaney Olympic..

I ran the race in 2014 and 2015 and after comparing pictures online and my own garmin connect map for both races, i can clearly see a difference in the starting line location while seeing no noticeable difference in the finish line location..

It appears that this years race was the accurate one which is better than the opposite been the case i suppose.. Although this years winner may not feel the the same way, he narrowly missed out on the course record..:eek:

All things said, the Enniscorthy 10k is a great race and im already looking forward to trying to get a PB at it for the 3rd time in a row next year. :pac:

Slogger Jogger

The Enniscorthy 10K was overall excellent (as usual) with the exception of the start which was messy. Its a narrow piece of road and people were stuck like peas in a pod. It took a good while to get into any sort of good running. The usual craic with slower moving people at the front but in fairness to them they couldn't get through the crowds of runners waiting to start.

It could be easily rectified by having someone with a loudhailer at the start well beforehand and moving people back, and only have people approach the start line near the noon start-time.

Podge83

You may have a point Trevor but I'd say that you might be overstating the difference.

Good race all the same.

MisterDrak

Any dates for the Strawberry half yet ?

Usually around 1st week in June !

wextipp

Just to add a bit more to the road race measurement discussion. You can never be sure if a road race course is the correct distance or not. There is a solution there however and that is to get it independently measured. In order to get an AAI permit you first have to get the course measured by an approved measurer from this list. There is a small cost but it will last for 5 years and the course must be remeasured if the route changes or that start/finish points are moved. The measurer will present the organizers with a technical certificate detailing how the route was measured and pinpointing where the start and finish should be. At a lot of races in Cork for example they will display this certificate at the start of the race as proof that the distance is genuine.

This certificate should not be confused with an AAI permit. Unfortunately it is possible to get an AAI permit in Wexford without the course having being measured first by a measurer from the above approved list.

It would be a good step for an organizer of some of the upcoming Wexford races to display their measurement certificate as proof of the distance and set an example for all races in the county. What do people think.

66_Lad

MisterDrak wrote: »

Any dates for the Strawberry half yet ?

Usually around 1st week in June !

Wexford Athletics have the County Half Marathon championship scheduled for Sun 7th June in Enniscorthy:
http://www.wexfordathletics.com/events2/events1.html

They seem to move the half marathon championships between local halfs (Wexford town half in 2013, Ferns Half in 2014) so I assume this is going to be incorporated into the Strawberry Half this year...but I have not seen the Strawberry date being set officially, am just assuming its on 7th June from the above.

Also there is a full marathon in Wexford town on Sun 7th June...seems like a bit of bad timing if its on the same day as the Strawberry half & County half marathon championships

wextipp

wextipp wrote: »

It would be a good step for an organizer of some of the upcoming Wexford races to display their measurement certificate as proof of the distance and set an example for all races in the county. What do people think.

Any of our local race directors on here think this is a good way to improve the quality of our Wexford races.

Podge83

Race measurement

I organize a race in Wexford. As a committee we go to great lengths to make sure we get AAI certified. We certainly displayed the race Certificate. The race measurement certificate is only currently coming into force (it isn't actually in force yet). Yes, a certificate could be produced for the measurement, but as yet there is no official National Certificate or indeed has there been a requirement to have one for any races run up to now. The Cork County Board may have its own regulation on this - I don't know!

For sure we got our course measured correctly. I know the Directors of 5 other races in the County - all but one get AAI certification which includes the requirement for a measured course (by a measurer from the list). The one that doesn't get AAI certification doesn't claim AAI certification. The list of measurers referred to above is out of date BTW. I haven't checked the AAI site, but they may not have updated it.

To get an AAI Cert the course must be measured and the measurer must endorse the application. In the future a certificate of measurement will also have to be produced. We certainly will display this certificate along with the AAI cert which is already always displayed.

The suggestion above is that there is something about Wexford races that they can be ran with no regard for the measurement regulations - that is not the case.

Id ask Wextipp - on what basis do you suggest that it is possible to get a certificate without the course being measured? The suggestion I get from this is that you imply "crookedness" or some sort of a "sure its close enough" attitude amongst organisers. By all means PM me if you have details that you don't want to share.

We certainly could not have got a race certificate without getting our course measured. There is no immunity to this requirement in the County. I know of one example when the course was measured after the application went in but it was measured correctly prior to the race. If this is what you are referring to it is unfair - the race was run on a correctly measured course.

wextipp

Look. Every now and again people complain about race courses being measured wrong. There is no way of proving otherwise. I am not saying that people are underhand, I am just saying that the system that is in place is flawed. I am suggesting a way to improve the quality and suggesting that some people, particularly clubs could lead the way on it.

Yes, there is no standard for a course measuring certificate. However when you become certificated as a measurer you are thought how to measure a course using the correct equipment and how to produce a certificate after the measurement is done. To apply for an AAI permit you must provide the details of the measurer and the number of the certificate that he or she provides.

What is the big deal. Why don't race organizers publish the measurers cert to dispel any doubts about distances. Point out where I am wrong, please.

Podge83

wextipp wrote: »

Look. Every now and again people complain about race courses being measured wrong. There is no way of proving otherwise. I am not saying that people are underhand, I am just saying that the system that is in place is flawed. I am suggesting a way to improve the quality and suggesting that some people, particularly clubs could lead the way on it.

Yes, there is no standard for a course measuring certificate. However when you become certificated as a measurer you are thought how to measure a course using the correct equipment and how to produce a certificate after the measurement is done. To apply for an AAI permit you must provide the details of the measurer and the number of the certificate that he or she provides.

What is the big deal. Why don't race organizers publish the measurers cert to dispel any doubts about distances. Point out where I am wrong, please.

Read my post or ring the AAI on Monday and ask them (like I did today just to make sure!!)

wextipp

Podge83 wrote: »

Read my post or ring the AAI on Monday and ask them (like I did today just to make sure!!)

I did read your post. So what you are saying is that an AAI permit means nothing. It cannot guarantee that a race has an accurately measured course or provide proof of. Why did you not not request a measurement certificate when you got it measured. You are saying it is not required but it would have been nice to have the proof, no?

Podge83

wextipp wrote: »

I did read your post. So what you are saying is that an AAI permit means nothing. It cannot guarantee that a race has an accurately measured course or provide proof of. Why did you not not request a measurement certificate when you got it measured. You are saying it is not required but it would have been nice to have the proof, no?

You now attest that I am saying that an AAI cert means nothing - Oh my God!! I'm now beginning to think that you are just trying to wind me up.

The running/ athletics community in Wexford is a friendly, vibrant, group of people who I am glad to be associated with. I'm certainly not getting into a silly argument about the bona fide of officials who work tirelessly for athletics and who run races for athletics Clubs or similar to strengthen the sport. I've witnessed the measurer of my (and most other races in the County) at work and can confirm the meticulousness of his procedures.

I'm finished on this topic!

66_Lad

Date|Day|Time|Fee|Name|Dist|Location|Organizer|Status|Measurer/Year|Chip Time|AAI Permit
22-Feb|Sun|11:00|10|Ferns Operation Transformation 5k|5k|Ferns|Carol Murphy|Ferns St Aidan's GAA Club|No|No|No
01-Mar|Sun|11:00|12|Ben5k.com|5k|Wexford Town|Ben5k|Charity|No|No|Yes
06-Apr|Mon|?|?|Rosslare 10k|10k|Rosslare Strand|Wexford Tri Club|Club|No|Yes|No
26-Apr|Sun|?|?|Wexford Half Marathon|13.1 Mile|Wexford Town|Ryano Event Management Ltd|For profit|?|Yes|Yes
26-Apr|Sun|?|?|Wexford 10k|10k||Ryano Event Management Ltd|For profit|?|Yes|Yes
04-May|Mon|11:00|10|Mayglass 4 Mile|4 Mile|Mayglass|Mayglass NS|Community|?|No|?


Just adding a 5k thats on in Ferns this Sunday over the same course as the SBR Hangover 5k from Dec 2014. Details on Facebook also.

average_runner

Does there be some kind of training sessions in the wexford race course on Sat mornings?

wextipp

Podge83 wrote: »

You now attest that I am saying that an AAI cert means nothing - Oh my God!! I'm now beginning to think that you are just trying to wind me up ................. I'm finished on this topic!

Here is my last comment on it. I have been involved in athletics for over 30 years, have been heavily involved in organizing over 12 successful road races in the last 7 years and will continue to do more. Standards are important in athletics, distance, measurement, heights etc. etc. I was proposing a tightening of the standards that are their already in place to improve the quality control of road race distances. Races are getting measured by approved/trained officials so why not go that small step forward and produce a certificate that will last for 5 years. This will avoid the questioning of road races distances like we have had in previous posts. If you want to get all defensive of your race and take my proposal as an attack on the whole body of Wexford athletes so be it.

dintbo

average_runner wrote: »

Does there be some kind of training sessions in the wexford race course on Sat mornings?

AFAIK Menapians use the racecourse sometimes, don't know the details though.

pconn062

Posts moved from running events in Wexford thread.

wextipp

pconn062 wrote: »

Guys, I've moved these from the running events in Wexford thread as it was getting very off topic.

It may have gone off in other ways but I don't agree it had gone off topic. The topic is 'Running events in Wexford' and this was about procedures for the measurement of Wexford races. It's done now anyway.