Which Newspaper

Saint Sonner

Having recently moved to the South I was wondering what the national newspaper says about the reader.

Example in the North:

Irish News - Nationalist
News Letter - Unionist

I haven't really stuck to one paper at the moment but would like to know what the big ones generally stand for in the South

Lockstep

For the broadsheets:

Irish Times is centre-left. Fairly liberal.
Irish Independent is centre-right.

Both are generally fairly solid. I remember once the IT's headline was "Government and unions come to agreement" while the II's was "Government caves to union demands"
That sorta sums up the difference between them.

Tabloids in Ireland are fairly poor and right wing. Sunday Independent is little better than a rag IMO.

LuckyLloyd

Lockstep wrote: »

For the broadsheets:

Irish Times is centre-left. Fairly liberal.
Irish Independent is centre-right.

Both are generally fairly solid. I remember once the IT's headline was "Government and unions come to agreement" while the II's was "Government caves to union demands"
That sorta sums up the difference between them.

Tabloids in Ireland are fairly poor and right wing. Sunday Independent is little better than a rag IMO.

The Irish Independent is a tabloid imo.

OP: note that the Independent / Sunday Independent are right leaning in terms of social issues and are very anti SF.

The quality of the Irish Times in terms of accuracy has dipped hugely over the past decade, a natural symptom of 'ever more news produced by ever less journalists'.

I have never read a copy of the Irish Examiner though I don't believe it has any strong political bias in any direction.

Brian Shanahan

Lockstep wrote: »

For the broadsheets:

Irish Times is centre-left. Fairly liberal.

Considering that the only vaguely left-wing person left in the Times is Fintan O'Toole, and that it is the home of such hard right fantasists in Ireland as Breda O'Brien and Charles Krauthamer, calling the Times a left of centre publication is like calling Der Sturmer as a philosemitic publication.

The Irish Times current ideology is a mixture of pro-unionist and Thatcherite viewpoints, neither of which are remotely palatable to any left-leaning person.

BoJack Horseman

Saint Sonner wrote: »

I haven't really stuck to one paper at the moment but would like to know what the big ones generally stand for in the South

Not sure why your being specific to the south?

Eastern dwellers in Dublin/Wicklow would be no different in attitude to their cork/Kerry cousins.

For Forks Sake

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I have never read a copy of the Irish Examiner though I don't believe it has any strong political bias in any direction.

Cork. Cork. Cork. Cork. Cork.

LuckyLloyd

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Not sure why your being specific to the south?

Eastern dwellers in Dublin/Wicklow would be no different in attitude to their cork/Kerry cousins.

He means the Republic as opposed to Northern Ireland I believe

phantom_lord

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Considering that the only vaguely left-wing person left in the Times is Fintan O'Toole, and that it is the home of such hard right fantasists in Ireland as Breda O'Brien and Charles Krauthamer, calling the Times a left of centre publication is like calling Der Sturmer as a philosemitic publication.

The Irish Times current ideology is a mixture of pro-unionist and Thatcherite viewpoints, neither of which are remotely palatable to any left-leaning person.

Where do the likes of Una Mullally and Kitty Holland fit in to that? Yes Breda O'Brien has a column but if you look at the overall paper's coverage of social issues or US politics, it's very left leaning.

Manach

Context is king. From within the view point of the intelligentsia there might be some divergence between which is the shade more left leaning the Independent or Times, when it comes to social matters. In terms of economics, the former is more centralist but still a cheerleader for the Corporate state.

For Reals

The Independent is conservative and pro status quo, unless we see a radical swing in government from the usual dark blue and navy parties. It's pretty much a tabloid, think the Sun, but with less sport. The Sunday Independent is a social rag for chums of the 'journalists'.
The Times is a little more even keeled in my view.

Additional:
Today, Irish Times reports a water protester claims she was hit by a TD'S car. TD denies it says she jumped in front.
The Independent says: Fine Gael TD terrorized by water protesters, some came to his house where there were two small children.
Read into that what you will.....

phantom_lord

phantom_lord wrote: »

US politics, it's very left leaning.

Left-leaning in US terms probably means right-wing in Europe.

The NHS and aspects of Irish healthcare would be considered radical-left in the USA.

The Irish Times cannot seriously be considered left-wing on the basis that it venerated Obamacare.

Vincent Browne, Kitty Holland & Fintan O'Toole are of the left, but these are counterbalanced by Breda O'Brien, Charles Krauthamer, Dan O'Brien, Cliff Taylor (in fact all of their commentators with financial backgrounds are centre-right) and Mark Hennessy, who goes after the status quo like a pussycat after a ball of wool.

Bring back Nell McCafferty I say; Eddie Holt and Garret FitzGerald (RIP)... there was a paper you could carry past a dole queue with a clear conscience.

V_Moth

Wasn't Charles Krauthammer dropped by the Irish Times years ago? Paul Krugman has a weekly column in the Economy section, who I guess would be considered quite left leaning.

V_Moth

V_Moth wrote: »

Paul Krugman has a weekly column in the Economy section, who I guess would be considered quite left leaning.

Yes, they buy his opinions from the NYT and bury them in the Business supplement.

Krugman's opinions tend to dwell on the major macroeconomic issues facing the US and the Eurozone, or issues that economists discuss over a pint of Bovril (see his recent article referencing Bowles and Simpson, chairs of the US National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform...)

These issues are important but are probably a bit too esoteric or detached from the immediacy of readers' lives to generate an impact on their political activities.

So not only is Paul Krugman outnumbered by the paper's centre/right economic & financial commentators, his opinions are neither front-page news like Dan O'Brien's are, and are not conducive to reform and activism, objectives which 'economically left-wing' publications should probably have at their core.

sock puppet

dan o brien writes for the indo

sock puppet

sock puppet wrote: »

dan o brien writes for the indo

He does now, but in that case I'll also exclude Vincent Browne as a counterpoint. I'm really getting at the general editorial direction which, certainly in economic terms, the Irish Times can never be described as left-wing.

Saint Sonner

Would certain papers support certain political parties or not in Ireland.

In UK you pretty much divide a lot of papers up as Pro Labour; Pro Tory; Pro other

For Reals

Saint Sonner wrote: »

Would certain papers support certain political parties or not in Ireland.

In UK you pretty much divide a lot of papers up as Pro Labour; Pro Tory; Pro other

It's a tough call. The Independent would be the Fianna Fail paper were they in government, but are happy to support Fine Gael to an extent if the same interests are served. Look up Denis O'Brien, they will support his business interests*
*see all the negative Anti-IW/water protesters portrayed as home grown terrorists.

The state broadcaster is for the government of the day due to funding from taxation.

If I were to pick one, I'd go Irish Times. They are the most balanced of the bunch.

In Ireland, it's who pays their wages over party affiliation and religion wouldn't come into it, more your postal code as regards the way you and yours are reported about.

Loafing Oaf

For Reals wrote: »

It's a tough call. The Independent would be the Fianna Fail paper were they in government, but are happy to support Fine Gael to an extent if the same interests are served. Look up Denis O'Brien, they will support his business interests*

The FF/FG rivalry used to parallel the O'Reilly/O'Brien one but now that Anne Harris has finally been eased out the door at the Sindo the latter is no longer a factor and by giving a platform to cheerleaders for an FF/Fg coalition like John McGuiness INM is trying to ensure the former isn't either. They wouldn't mind if the current government was reelected but the overriding priority is to keep the Shinners out...

Rabbo

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Cork. Cork. Cork. Cork. Cork.

Not necessarily a bad thing, at least it brings some variation to the Dublin, Dublin, Dublin, Dublin coming from all the other national newspapers and media outlets.
I think the Examiner gives a reasonably balanced view on most issues and has some quality editing

Brussels Sprout

Rabbo wrote: »

I think the Examiner gives a reasonably balanced view on most issues and has some quality editing

Agreed. The only discernible bias I can detect in it is its Cork bias. I think the Editorials each day are always well thought out, quite mature and have a knack of hitting the nail on the head.

goose2005

Saint Sonner wrote: »

Would certain papers support certain political parties or not in Ireland.

In UK you pretty much divide a lot of papers up as Pro Labour; Pro Tory; Pro other

Irish Times was usually pro-Labour, has now given up on them for FG. (Stephen Collins's articles are hilariously fawning)

Cool Mo D

In the long-gone olden days, the Irish Press was the Fianna Fail paper, the Independent was the Fine Gael paper, and the Irish Times was for protestants.

Now the Irish Times is a centrist/liberal leaning broadsheet, the Irish Press is long gone, and the Independent is a right leaning, pro-status quo, tabloidy paper.
The Examiner used to be the Cork Examiner, and is more focused on Cork goings-on than the rest of the media.

sarumite

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Considering that the only vaguely left-wing person left in the Times is Fintan O'Toole, and that it is the home of such hard right fantasists in Ireland as Breda O'Brien and Charles Krauthamer, calling the Times a left of centre publication is like calling Der Sturmer as a philosemitic publication.

The Irish Times current ideology is a mixture of pro-unionist and Thatcherite viewpoints, neither of which are remotely palatable to any left-leaning person.

Fintan o'Toole isn't vaguely left wing, he is full on radical left. I would view the times as very centrist myself.

William F

I don't get it why so many left wing anti water protesters post links of the indo on facebook. By far the worst lying right wing newspaper on the market.

The Times is ok but they have a British agenda. Their online newspaper has a weekly British appreciation column where I think it loses massive points on.

You're better off sticking with journal.ie. Not great journalism but it is the safest option.

BoJack Horseman

William F wrote: »

You're better off sticking with journal.ie. Not great journalism but it is the safest option.

It has very little actual journalism & is very agenda based.

Its no more a repository of news than the 'After hours' forum.

Loafing Oaf

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It has very little actual journalism & is very agenda based.

Its no more a repository of news than the 'After hours' forum.

Yeah I find like 90% of Internet 'journalism' it's just bouncing off stuff that's already been put out there by the dreaded 'mainstream media'...

William F

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Yeah I find like 90% of Internet 'journalism' it's just bouncing off stuff that's already been put out there by the dreaded 'mainstream media'...

There's nothing like a bit of Al Jazeera or Russia Today when mainstream media gets out of hand.

FreudianSlippers

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It has very little actual journalism & is very agenda based.

Its no more a repository of news than the 'After hours' forum.

The comments section is awful even compared to other comments sections - that says a lot about the clickbait articles they post and the dullards it attracts (not saying everyone who reads it is an idiot; we all enjoy a bit of garbage sometimes ).

The Golden Miller

All very anti-SF, and by extension all anti-nationalist, all very sympathetic towards unionism and Britain's interference in Ireland in general. So if your coming from the north, you'll now see why there's so many partitionists in the south

johnnyskeleton

The Golden Miller wrote: »

All very anti-SF, and by extension all anti-nationalist,

Surely one can be anti-Sinn Fein but pro-nationalist? What about if you are a supporter of SDLP or FF? What if you believe in a United Ireland, but simply don't believe that Sinn Fein are the people to bring it about?

The Golden Miller

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Surely one can be anti-Sinn Fein but pro-nationalist? What about if you are a supporter of SDLP or FF? What if you believe in a United Ireland, but simply don't believe that Sinn Fein are the people to bring it about?

Of course they can, but the lines get very blurred and these papers don't seem to be able to differentiate that difference

blackwhite

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Of course they can, but the lines get very blurred and these papers don't seem to be able to differentiate that difference

To be fair, many SF supporters themselves are all too fond of claiming that a dislike for SF equates to being both anti-Republican and anti-nationalism.

Larbre34

The Indo is currently passing through Daily Mail territory and not far from washing up as the Irish Daily Express.......

I cannot 'Express' how awful it has become.

The IT is the best of a poor bunch, in terms of non-opinion pieces it is the most objective.

pauliebdub

The Indo is populist, tells it's readers what it would like to hear, your home is worth more than it was six months ago, see pg 5. Broadly conservative and negative, somewhat tabloidy. Over uses the word dramatic in its headlines. Middle class columnists some liberal, some conservative, none AFAIK left wing.

Irish Times, liberal and very middle class, it's reporting is generally restrained and a bit pc, reluctant to stigmatise any group in society. Same kind of columnists as the Indo, some right wing, some liberal, generally a better standard of commentary IMo.

Examiner - cork based, pro fine gael but haven't read it in years.

FreudianSlippers

pauliebdub wrote: »

The Indo is populist, tells it's readers what it would like to hear, your home is worth more than it was six months ago, see pg 5. Broadly conservative and negative, somewhat tabloidy. Over uses the word dramatic in its headlines. Middle class columnists some liberal, some conservative, none AFAIK left wing.

Irish Times, liberal and very middle class, it's reporting is generally restrained and a bit pc, reluctant to stigmatise any group in society. Same kind of columnists as the Indo, some right wing, some liberal, generally a better standard of commentary IMo.

Examiner - cork based, pro fine gael but haven't read it in years.

Are you suggesting house values are not increased from 5 years ago?

Muahahaha

Saint Sonner wrote: »

Would certain papers support certain political parties or not in Ireland.

In UK you pretty much divide a lot of papers up as Pro Labour; Pro Tory; Pro other

Most certainly, the Sindo did a deal with Bertie Ahern in the lead up to the 2007 election. It involved Bertie and Biffo visiting the home of (then) Independent News and Media owner Tony O'Reilly early on a Sunday morning. At the time it looked as if FF were going to lose the election, mainly because of unanswered questions about digouts given to him in sterling and US$ and him claiming he had no bank account when he was minister of finance. The polls were showing a downward trend for FF so Bertie and Biffo did a deal that exchanged exclusive stories for favourable coverage on FF in the Sindo, Indo & Herald. In the lead up to polling day a raft of Indo journalists came out in support of FF and Ahern and advised their readers to continue voting FF. They never told their readers why they had done an about turn, just that they should keep voting for Bertie because he was 'a safe pair of hands'. We all know where the 2007-2011 period of Fianna Fail led us so the rest is history, albeit a history with a media owners fingerprints all over it.

At the time the only media to report on the meeting was the Irish Times and Phoenix magazine, all other newspapers ignored it.

For me it was a kin to the deal that Rupert Murdoch did with Thatcher, different circumstances for sure but ultimely favourable media coverage in the lead up to polling day won the election. After the election it was payback time.

More here
http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/bertie-and-the-sindo-an-affront-to-democracy-241847.html

pauliebdub

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Are you suggesting house values are not increased from 5 years ago?

No it was to illustrate the type of stories the Indo publish, their fixation with property prices is one example.

Redmen Rafalution

The quality of journalism in the Irish Independent is very sloppy at times, imo.

C14N

I can't say I would really notice a bias in any paper that I would just label as "right wing" or "left wing" (I never read red tops or the Mail though). In my experience, the face off has generally been between the Independent and the Irish Times.

In that race, I personally take the Times if I have the choice. Columnists aside, I find the news reporting to be much more balanced and objective. The Independent has a real habit of using sensationalist language and slanting things so you know who the "bad guys" are in their stories. I kind of consider it to be for people who do see the tabloids as rags but find the Times a bit too dry.